RGM GOAT Debate Thread (Part 2)

[TheGOATRises007]

Kobe definitely has no GOAT argument.

Like none whatsoever.

[michaelm]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2314572&start=300#p108071037



So like, you're clearly just a troll. I get it, this is the thread for trolling, but still. I don't feel like keeping up the back-and-forth with a troll right now, so have fun.

Oddly only people who disagree with you seem to qualify as trolls.

Bringing up Kobe as a GOAT is trolling. Stop with the nonsense

Perhaps not completely ridiculous to compare peak Kobe with LeBron however, and not ridiculous at all to suggest Kobe was rated more highly at points during his playing career than he is now he has been retired a while, which were probably the points being made.

[RRR3]

Uh yeah it is ridiculous to compare peak Kobe to peak LeBron. It's like saying Derek Jeter was as good as Mike Trout.

[ScrantonBulls]

Oddly only people who disagree with you seem to qualify as trolls.

Bringing up Kobe as a GOAT is trolling. Stop with the nonsense

Perhaps not completely ridiculous to compare peak Kobe with LeBron however, and not ridiculous at all to suggest Kobe was rated more highly at points during his playing career than he is now he has been retired a while, which were probably the points being made.

Ya know, you don't need to defend the indefensible (such as Kobe being on LeBron's level or being a GOAT candidate) just because you have a hate boner for LeBron. There's zero chance you'd defending this position if it was about Kobe being on Jordan's level. Both are equally absurd arguments.

[ScrantonBulls]

The bigger disqualifier for MJ is him quitting TWICE while in his prime/as the best player in the league. That's too much missed time to be the GOAT. Plus it's just weak for the so called "ultimate competitor". LeBron's extended dominance over 20+ years trounces MJ's 15 years (13 years if you exclude his injured season and the 17 games when he returned in 1995).

LeBron has been a dominant force for so much longer than MJ. 21 seasons vs 13 seasons. If we subtract LeBron's rookie year and MJs mediocre Wizards years, 20 seasons vs 11 seasons. It's not even close.

[The High Cyde]

Oddly only people who disagree with you seem to qualify as trolls.

Bringing up Kobe as a GOAT is trolling. Stop with the nonsense

Perhaps not completely ridiculous to compare peak Kobe with LeBron however, and not ridiculous at all to suggest Kobe was rated more highly at points during his playing career than he is now he has been retired a while, which were probably the points being made.

You could just say he has no place in the GOAT debate, which is what this thread is about, but you do you boss. Keep feeding the trolls.

[michaelm]

Bringing up Kobe as a GOAT is trolling. Stop with the nonsense

Perhaps not completely ridiculous to compare peak Kobe with LeBron however, and not ridiculous at all to suggest Kobe was rated more highly at points during his playing career than he is now he has been retired a while, which were probably the points being made.

You could just say he has no place in the GOAT debate, which is what this thread is about, but you do you boss. Keep feeding the trolls.

I don’t see a traditional Lakers fan taking Kobe’s significant contribution to five titles as a member of two separate leading duos over LeBron’s one as completely unreasonable. If LeBron wins a second Lakers title at age 40 with Doncic rather than Davis which didn’t look impossible today then that will be quite something and another matter, and rather destroy discussion of the merits of his play since he turned 35. Only one game but Jokic certainly didn’t look like the best player out there today.

[The High Cyde]

Perhaps not completely ridiculous to compare peak Kobe with LeBron however, and not ridiculous at all to suggest Kobe was rated more highly at points during his playing career than he is now he has been retired a while, which were probably the points being made.

You could just say he has no place in the GOAT debate, which is what this thread is about, but you do you boss. Keep feeding the trolls.

I don’t see a traditional Lakers fan taking Kobe’s significant contribution to five titles as a member of two separate leading duos over LeBron’s one as completely unreasonable. If LeBron wins a second Lakers title at age 40 with Doncic rather than Davis which didn’t look impossible today then that will be quite something and another matter, and rather destroy discussion of the merits of his play since he turned 35. Only one game but Jokic certainly didn’t look like the best player out there today.

Why does being a “traditional Lakers fan” matter for being in the GOAT debate lmao and of course that’s who and what they would pick, it’s 5 titles to 1, that’s not saying much chief.

I don’t think I even mentioned LeBron though, so what’s Kobe’s GOAT case against Kareem and Jordan?

Bringing up Kobe as a GOAT candidate is ridiculous, once again. Is this the old ESPN comment section or something?

[Homer38]

If Jordan has all the credit for the Pippen's development(a top 10 draft pick), LeBron needs to have at least some for the Reaves' success, an undrafted player, btw

[Rust_Cohle]

If Jordan has all the credit for the Pippen's development(a top 10 draft pick), LeBron needs to have at least some for the Reaves' success, an undrafted player, btw

Ridiculous take, we gonna give lebron credit for dalton too when LeBron bragged about him?

[Homer38]

If Jordan has all the credit for the Pippen's development(a top 10 draft pick), LeBron needs to have at least some for the Reaves' success, an undrafted player, btw

Ridiculous take, we gonna give lebron credit for dalton too when LeBron bragged about him?

Why this is a ridiculous take?

Just to look what Reaves has said about LeBron for his development.....

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2442292

[bledredwine]

The bigger disqualifier for MJ is him quitting TWICE while in his prime/as the best player in the league. That's too much missed time to be the GOAT. Plus it's just weak for the so called "ultimate competitor". LeBron's extended dominance over 20+ years trounces MJ's 15 years (13 years if you exclude his injured season and the 17 games when he returned in 1995).

LeBron has been a dominant force for so much longer than MJ. 21 seasons vs 13 seasons. If we subtract LeBron's rookie year and MJs mediocre Wizards years, 20 seasons vs 11 seasons. It's not even close.

It just shows how dominant Jordan was to accomplish much more than Lebron even while missing multiple years of his prime and potential championships, including two years and a rust year right in his prime. Lebron’s had eight more seasons, multiple teams to form and still hasn’t been able to do it.

[Rust_Cohle]

If Jordan has all the credit for the Pippen's development(a top 10 draft pick), LeBron needs to have at least some for the Reaves' success, an undrafted player, btw

Ridiculous take, we gonna give lebron credit for dalton too when LeBron bragged about him?

Why this is a ridiculous take?

Just to look what Reaves has said about LeBron for his development.....

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2442292

The entire team is setup to glaze lebron, same with JJ’s cringey comments about lebron every single day. LeGM tries to take credit for anyone up and coming player. I imagine Christie’s growth is to lebron as well?

And no Jordan didn’t make Pippen, he helped Pippen but Pippen would’ve been good regardless. Maybe not top 50 all time player good but good either way. Reaves was always going to succeed as well.

[Homer38]

Ridiculous take, we gonna give lebron credit for dalton too when LeBron bragged about him?

Why this is a ridiculous take?

Just to look what Reaves has said about LeBron for his development.....

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2442292

The entire team is setup to glaze lebron, same with JJ’s cringey comments about lebron every single day. LeGM tries to take credit for anyone up and coming player. I imagine Christie’s growth is to lebron as well?

And no Jordan didn’t make Pippen, he helped Pippen but Pippen would’ve been good regardless. Maybe not top 50 all time player good but good either way. Reaves was always going to succeed as well.

You are wrong.....Reaves was a undrafted player btw.....If Jordan has the credit for Pippen,LeBron need some for Reaves

[Rust_Cohle]

Why this is a ridiculous take?

Just to look what Reaves has said about LeBron for his development.....

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2442292

The entire team is setup to glaze lebron, same with JJ’s cringey comments about lebron every single day. LeGM tries to take credit for anyone up and coming player. I imagine Christie’s growth is to lebron as well?

And no Jordan didn’t make Pippen, he helped Pippen but Pippen would’ve been good regardless. Maybe not top 50 all time player good but good either way. Reaves was always going to succeed as well.

You are wrong.....Reaves was a undrafted player btw.....If Jordan has the credit for Pippen,LeBron need some for Reaves

Did LeBron sign reaves himself?

Look at reaves without lebron, get a grip:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/austin-reaves-stats-without-lebron-james-this-season

[Homer38]

The entire team is setup to glaze lebron, same with JJ’s cringey comments about lebron every single day. LeGM tries to take credit for anyone up and coming player. I imagine Christie’s growth is to lebron as well?

And no Jordan didn’t make Pippen, he helped Pippen but Pippen would’ve been good regardless. Maybe not top 50 all time player good but good either way. Reaves was always going to succeed as well.

You are wrong.....Reaves was a undrafted player btw.....If Jordan has the credit for Pippen,LeBron need some for Reaves

Did LeBron sign reaves himself?

Look at reaves without lebron, get a grip:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/austin-reaves-stats-without-lebron-james-this-season

For the same question,no....Same thing for Pippen with Jordan

second part,only 3 games but of course the individual stats will always be better when you are a one man show for a game but Reaves and LBJ have been great together this year too,so this is a non story your point

[Rust_Cohle]

You are wrong.....Reaves was a undrafted player btw.....If Jordan has the credit for Pippen,LeBron need some for Reaves

Did LeBron sign reaves himself?

Look at reaves without lebron, get a grip:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/austin-reaves-stats-without-lebron-james-this-season

For the same question,no....Same thing for Pippen with Jordan

second part,only 3 games but of course the individual stats will always be better when you are a one man show for a game but Reaves and LBJ have been great together this year too,so this is a non story your point

You are obsessed with this weird angle of “Jordan made Pippen”

Reaves would’ve been a great player regardless. Every single good young player always talks up the veteran of the teams. Lebron was bragging about dalton Kennect only for the lakers to try and trade him.

[Homer38]

Did LeBron sign reaves himself?

Look at reaves without lebron, get a grip:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/austin-reaves-stats-without-lebron-james-this-season

For the same question,no....Same thing for Pippen with Jordan

second part,only 3 games but of course the individual stats will always be better when you are a one man show for a game but Reaves and LBJ have been great together this year too,so this is a non story your point

You are obsessed with this weird angle of “Jordan made Pippen”

Reaves would’ve been a great player regardless. Every single good young player always talks up the veteran of the teams. Lebron was bragging about dalton Kennect only for the lakers to try and trade him.

Because for years, I've often heard that it was because of Jordan that Pippen became a great player even though he was a top 10 pick....If that's the case in this situation, it must also be the case for LeBron in the case of Reaves...That's just my point....

Maybe you're not one of those who thinks that Pippen became a great player because of Jordan, but some in this thread thinks that....that's all

[Rust_Cohle]

For the same question,no....Same thing for Pippen with Jordan

second part,only 3 games but of course the individual stats will always be better when you are a one man show for a game but Reaves and LBJ have been great together this year too,so this is a non story your point

You are obsessed with this weird angle of “Jordan made Pippen”

Reaves would’ve been a great player regardless. Every single good young player always talks up the veteran of the teams. Lebron was bragging about dalton Kennect only for the lakers to try and trade him.

Because for years, I've often heard that it was because of Jordan that Pippen became a great player even though he was a top 10 pick....If that's the case in this situation, it must also be the case for LeBron in the case of Reaves...That's just my point....

Maybe you're not one of those who thinks that Pippen became a great player because of Jordan, but some in this thread thinks that....that's all

I hear you but like you said, Pippen was a top 7 pick. Did MJ help him be better? For sure but Pippen was going to have a great career regardless.

And it is good to see lebron still being influential for the young players.

[ScrantonBulls]

The bigger disqualifier for MJ is him quitting TWICE while in his prime/as the best player in the league. That's too much missed time to be the GOAT. Plus it's just weak for the so called "ultimate competitor". LeBron's extended dominance over 20+ years trounces MJ's 15 years (13 years if you exclude his injured season and the 17 games when he returned in 1995).

LeBron has been a dominant force for so much longer than MJ. 21 seasons vs 13 seasons. If we subtract LeBron's rookie year and MJs mediocre Wizards years, 20 seasons vs 11 seasons. It's not even close.

It just shows how dominant Jordan was to accomplish much more than Lebron even while missing multiple years of his prime and potential championships, including two years and a rust year right in his prime. Lebron’s had eight more seasons, multiple teams to form and still hasn’t been able to do it.

And what Jordan did pales in comparison to what Bill Russell did. We need to factor in the era they played in though. Comparing today's era to Jordan's era is like comparing Jordan's era to Bill Russell's era. Bill Russell's era was so weak compared to Jordan's era. Jordan's era is so watered down and weak compared to LeBron'a era. Especially considering how diluted the league was due to expansion teams and the lack of international players.

Quite frankly, the 80s and 90s were a complete joke compared to LeBron's era. When you factor in the talent level of the league, LeBron has done more than MJ. Factor in that he has dominated for so much longer, and it's no contest. The next best SG during Jordan's era (Drexler) barely even dribbled with his left hand, lmao. That's how bad it was.

Now I know you're conditioned to think longevity is meaningless because you need to prop up your lord and savior MJ. Hopefully someday you can ditch your emotional attachment to this topic and think it through using straight logic.