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Jaqua92 wrote:Some of you are pathetic. Jokic has his 3rd bad game in a year and a half, against a team he has said has gotten boring to play against, and he's now overrated.
Denver has eliminated superior versions of the Lakers 2 years in a row and won how many games in a row?
I thought only the Celtics had childish irrational haters. Goddamn.
I thought this stuff only happened on reddit.
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:OKC pace: 67-15
DEN pace: 53-29
The team gap is still too big for MVP, with the individual gap being negligible.
RRR3 wrote:Jaqua92 wrote:Some of you are pathetic. Jokic has his 3rd bad game in a year and a half, against a team he has said has gotten boring to play against, and he's now overrated.
Denver has eliminated superior versions of the Lakers 2 years in a row and won how many games in a row?
I thought only the Celtics had childish irrational haters. Goddamn.
I thought this stuff only happened on reddit.
So Jokic stops trying when he gets bored and you expect us to think he's the GOAT?
I'd rather have someone who actually wants to win and not eat donuts all day like tubby.
Black star wrote:MoneyTalks41890 wrote:OKC pace: 67-15
DEN pace: 53-29
The team gap is still too big for MVP, with the individual gap being negligible.
The Thunder are also 12-3 against the top 5 seeds with SGA averaging 34 6 and 5 in those games vs 32 5 and 6 for the season. So SGA's numbers actually get better when he's playing the best teams this year.
Denver is 3-9 against the top 5 seeds, the worst record by far of any top 3 seed, with Jokic averaging 22 13 and 10 in those games vs 29 13 10 for the season. Jokic this year has not been as good when facing the best teams and has been getting more of his stats against the bad teams.
AleksandarN wrote:Big J wrote:Jaqua92 wrote:Some of you are pathetic. Jokic has his 3rd bad game in a year and a half, against a team he has said has gotten boring to play against, and he's now overrated.
Denver has eliminated superior versions of the Lakers 2 years in a row and won how many games in a row?
I thought only the Celtics had childish irrational haters. Goddamn.
I thought this stuff only happened on reddit.
None of us hate Jokic. We hate his Stans.
That’s pretty sad. I may have disagreements with posters but I don’t hate people. I sure don’t let it influence how I watch games and basketball. I feel sad for you bro. Not an existence I wouldn’t want to be in. Sad life. Hope you can heal from the trauma that those “Stans” have brought upon your life.
Special_Puppy wrote:Black star wrote:MoneyTalks41890 wrote:OKC pace: 67-15
DEN pace: 53-29
The team gap is still too big for MVP, with the individual gap being negligible.
The Thunder are also 12-3 against the top 5 seeds with SGA averaging 34 6 and 5 in those games vs 32 5 and 6 for the season. So SGA's numbers actually get better when he's playing the best teams this year.
Denver is 3-9 against the top 5 seeds, the worst record by far of any top 3 seed, with Jokic averaging 22 13 and 10 in those games vs 29 13 10 for the season. Jokic this year has not been as good when facing the best teams and has been getting more of his stats against the bad teams.
I’d care about this if there was a pattern throughout Jokic’s career of underperforming against top performing teams, but Jokic’s impact basically holds up as far as I can tell. Sample this year of his scoring dropping is probably noise in a small sample size
Black star wrote:Special_Puppy wrote:Black star wrote:The Thunder are also 12-3 against the top 5 seeds with SGA averaging 34 6 and 5 in those games vs 32 5 and 6 for the season. So SGA's numbers actually get better when he's playing the best teams this year.
Denver is 3-9 against the top 5 seeds, the worst record by far of any top 3 seed, with Jokic averaging 22 13 and 10 in those games vs 29 13 10 for the season. Jokic this year has not been as good when facing the best teams and has been getting more of his stats against the bad teams.
I’d care about this if there was a pattern throughout Jokic’s career of underperforming against top performing teams, but Jokic’s impact basically holds up as far as I can tell. Sample this year of his scoring dropping is probably noise in a small sample size
Ok and the MVP discussion is for this season. I don't doubt that Jokic is capable of being great against great teams and he's a noted playoff riser but for this year in the regular season that's not happening which is relevant when SGA is.
Big J wrote:AleksandarN wrote:Big J wrote:
None of us hate Jokic. We hate his Stans.
That’s pretty sad. I may have disagreements with posters but I don’t hate people. I sure don’t let it influence how I watch games and basketball. I feel sad for you bro. Not an existence I wouldn’t want to be in. Sad life. Hope you can heal from the trauma that those “Stans” have brought upon your life.
Don't worry about it. It brings me joy to correct them.
Special_Puppy wrote:Black star wrote:Special_Puppy wrote:
I’d care about this if there was a pattern throughout Jokic’s career of underperforming against top performing teams, but Jokic’s impact basically holds up as far as I can tell. Sample this year of his scoring dropping is probably noise in a small sample size
Ok and the MVP discussion is for this season. I don't doubt that Jokic is capable of being great against great teams and he's a noted playoff riser but for this year in the regular season that's not happening which is relevant when SGA is.
If it’s probably just small sample size noise why should we care about it in regards to the MVP discussion? FWIW I've never been a fan of splitting out performance in a single season sample
Black star wrote:Special_Puppy wrote:Black star wrote:Ok and the MVP discussion is for this season. I don't doubt that Jokic is capable of being great against great teams and he's a noted playoff riser but for this year in the regular season that's not happening which is relevant when SGA is.
If it’s probably just small sample size noise why should we care about it in regards to the MVP discussion? FWIW I've never been a fan of splitting out performance in a single season sample
Saying that it's noise in a small sample size misunderstands either what a small sample size is or what the population of data is. The entire dataset is the 2024-2025 season. The Nuggets play 24 games against the top 5 seeds which is the subset of that dataset relevant to my stat. To date they have played 12 of those games and 12/24 is a 50%, more than large enough to be a significant sample size. Jokic played in 8 of those so is at 8/20 and again has reached a large sample size. You seem to be trying to compare it to his historical numbers which are irrelevant to the 2024-2025 regular season.
It matters because it's significantly different compared to what SGA has done in comparison and they are the two MVP front runners. I like to give extra credit to players who maintain or exceed their averages against the best competition because obviously that's more impressive than lighting up lottery teams. This year that's not Jokic so far. That certainly could change
Special_Puppy wrote:Black star wrote:Special_Puppy wrote:
If it’s probably just small sample size noise why should we care about it in regards to the MVP discussion? FWIW I've never been a fan of splitting out performance in a single season sample
Saying that it's noise in a small sample size misunderstands either what a small sample size is or what the population of data is. The entire dataset is the 2024-2025 season. The Nuggets play 24 games against the top 5 seeds which is the subset of that dataset relevant to my stat. To date they have played 12 of those games and 12/24 is a 50%, more than large enough to be a significant sample size. Jokic played in 8 of those so is at 8/20 and again has reached a large sample size. You seem to be trying to compare it to his historical numbers which are irrelevant to the 2024-2025 regular season.
It matters because it's significantly different compared to what SGA has done in comparison and they are the two MVP front runners. I like to give extra credit to players who maintain or exceed their averages against the best competition because obviously that's more impressive than lighting up lottery teams. This year that's not Jokic so far. That certainly could change
12 games is a small sample size and even 24 games is a small sample size. Generally its unwise to look at samples under 30 games if you don't have to. The historical numbers are relevant when trying to figure out if Jokic's performance against top teams this season is just noise (in which case its not very relevant) or if there's some flaw in his playstyle that causes his performance to not hold up against top teams (in which case his performance against top teams is a legit knock against him)
Black star wrote:Special_Puppy wrote:Black star wrote:Saying that it's noise in a small sample size misunderstands either what a small sample size is or what the population of data is. The entire dataset is the 2024-2025 season. The Nuggets play 24 games against the top 5 seeds which is the subset of that dataset relevant to my stat. To date they have played 12 of those games and 12/24 is a 50%, more than large enough to be a significant sample size. Jokic played in 8 of those so is at 8/20 and again has reached a large sample size. You seem to be trying to compare it to his historical numbers which are irrelevant to the 2024-2025 regular season.
It matters because it's significantly different compared to what SGA has done in comparison and they are the two MVP front runners. I like to give extra credit to players who maintain or exceed their averages against the best competition because obviously that's more impressive than lighting up lottery teams. This year that's not Jokic so far. That certainly could change
12 games is a small sample size and even 24 games is a small sample size. Generally its unwise to look at samples under 30 games if you don't have to. The historical numbers are relevant when trying to figure out if Jokic's performance against top teams this season is just noise (in which case its not very relevant) or if there's some flaw in his playstyle that causes his performance to not hold up against top teams (in which case his performance against top teams is a legit knock against him)
Small sample size is not some fixed value and is dependent on how large the population is. Again the data set IS this season so those are the relevant numbers to use. You are talking about evaluating his performance as a player in general which doesn't matter to the 2024-2025 season. If I tell that your sales were down this month so you can't be salesman of the month and you argue using your historical sales instead of your sales this month you are using irrelevant numbers
Special_Puppy wrote:Black star wrote:Special_Puppy wrote:
12 games is a small sample size and even 24 games is a small sample size. Generally its unwise to look at samples under 30 games if you don't have to. The historical numbers are relevant when trying to figure out if Jokic's performance against top teams this season is just noise (in which case its not very relevant) or if there's some flaw in his playstyle that causes his performance to not hold up against top teams (in which case his performance against top teams is a legit knock against him)
Small sample size is not some fixed value and is dependent on how large the population is. Again the data set IS this season so those are the relevant numbers to use. You are talking about evaluating his performance as a player in general which doesn't matter to the 2024-2025 season. If I tell that your sales were down this month so you can't be salesman of the month and you argue using your historical sales instead of your sales this month you are using irrelevant numbers
The relevant sample is the whole season so far which is 51 games for Jokic so far. You are splitting out 12 games from it even though it’s too small a sample to draw any conclusions from.
RRR3 wrote:Just seems like all his bad games come against the tougher opponents while SGA is raising his level of play against the best.
Special_Puppy wrote:RRR3 wrote:Just seems like all his bad games come against the tougher opponents while SGA is raising his level of play against the best.
What’s more likely? That’s there some flaw in Jokic’s play style that causes him to underperform against strong opponents or it’s just small sample size noise? If you look at Jokic’s career, he tends to hold his impact against strong opponents which makes me think it’s just small sample size noise. As regards to SGA, I’d like to see a bigger multi-year sample of his outperforming against strong teams before I chalk it up to anything other than just small sample size noise
RRR3 wrote:Special_Puppy wrote:RRR3 wrote:Just seems like all his bad games come against the tougher opponents while SGA is raising his level of play against the best.
What’s more likely? That’s there some flaw in Jokic’s play style that causes him to underperform against strong opponents or it’s just small sample size noise? If you look at Jokic’s career, he tends to hold his impact against strong opponents which makes me think it’s just small sample size noise. As regards to SGA, I’d like to see a bigger multi-year sample of his outperforming against strong teams before I chalk it up to anything other than just small sample size noise
Unfortunately for you, MVP is based on this season and not the past
Poor Fatkic, but I'm sure he'll be ready for his next game against the Hornets or Wizards!
RRR3 wrote:Sorry bub, but if we awarded the MVP based on the past we might as well give it to Shaq. Fact is, Jokic has struggled (for his standards) against the tougher competition this year and that matters in a race that's neck and neck when SGA has been dominant against the elite teams.