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Suns at Bulls 4pm

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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#101 » by dougthonus » Sun Feb 23, 2025 1:52 pm

Jcool0 wrote:Anything past 15 is a complete waste. Does nothing for you which is why OKC has so many of them. And yes they are a little more valuable now with the 2nd apron. But Josh Giddey whether you think he is a piece of not, is still much more valuable to have then a 17-25 draft pick.


A player on a 2 year bad contract whom is then a UFA is not better to have than two draft picks when your team is not set up to compete even a 1st round exits in that time period. That player does nothing to help add future assets to your team. They are a mercenary during a period where you aren't prioritizing winning.

The odds that a pick at #20 is the difference maker are low, but if you are building a team for 27+ then if you draft a difference maker with your own pick in the 25/26 stacked draft classes, then the odds of Josh Giddey as a UFA being more useful than two role players drafted in 26 / 27 on cheap contracts is low.

For OKC, 3 of their top 7 rotation players are guys they acquired as rookies that were drafted outside of the top 15 (Wiggins (19), Joe (2nd rnd 55), Dort (2 way deal)). Agreed the guys around 20 are less likely to become star players that transform your franchise, but they are more likely to become the depth pieces that can play with the guys who do.

Also, even should you not use the picks, they probably hold more trade value than Josh Giddey on a 2/60 contract because picks are universally valued, whereas Josh Giddey on that pricetag probably has negative value in the league.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#102 » by ShouldaPaidBG » Sun Feb 23, 2025 1:55 pm

dawhizz wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:Really smart of AKME to upgrade from Lavine to Huerter


It’s really hard to overstate how little they got for Lavine. Their own pick back they would likely have anyway and three absolute scrubs.


Zach is really really bad that's all there is to it
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#103 » by WesPeace » Sun Feb 23, 2025 2:17 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
WesPeace wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:As mediocre as this team is right now... I hate to say it...

But do we miss Ayo when he's injured? He's having a really poor season overall, and I'm getting tired of seeing him get beat by superstar guards (who can't be contained) and shot over by tall wings he has no business defending regularly (SFs and PFs). Largely Donovan's fault for overplaying him at the forwards spot...

I see his versatility and value as a role-player. I could see Ayo becoming somebody's Max Christie / Terrance Mann hybrid in a best case... But he's reminding me more of a Trenton Hassell meeting Kirk without the 3P & PnR...

I get the vibe that AK considers him one of his "10 very good players." But to me, Ayo is the classic 8th man on a loaded squad with 2 HOF players (Lebron & Luka, Jokic & X, Giannis & Dame, Tatum & Brown, Curry & Jimmy, etc.). Get the guy a job somewhere over there. We have too many vulnerabilities rebounding, shooting and defending to spend 30 MPG on him. All these similar caliber, taller/higher-ceiling prospects rotting in the Advocate Center (MATAS, Phillips, Terry... sigh I guess there aren't many). I mean, it's cool he could outplay Patrick Williams and everything... But I guess that's part of the problem here. These guys are outplayed or matched by replaceable journeymen like Craig, Javonte, let alone a good MLE pickup like Caruso.


He is good 6-7th guy on a playoff team.. you need twoway players, he is solid on offense and good on D and he is hometown kid. Whats not to like to keep him as rotational player? He can easily play 30min and even more on this pathetic team under this clueless coach.

On a good playoff team he is more of a 20-24min player. If he can be re-signed up to 14M per, you keep him.


So if you lock him in at 14m…

What does Coby get?


I would trade Coby for 1st rounder and expiring
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#104 » by WindyCityBorn » Sun Feb 23, 2025 4:12 pm

Ice Man wrote:The Bulls have the classic problem of a team stuck in NBA hell -- you can't figure out who their best player is. One guy looks like an All Star for 2 weeks then sucks, then another guy, then another guy. You end up talking yourself into hey maybe we should keep this player around, because what if he regularly starts to play well. See, he has potential!

Then you keep all those guys and they continue to have hot streaks but they never actually become, you know, good, and your team is on the outside looking in, year after year after year.


We’re out of NBA Hell after this season. We legit suck now unless young players win games.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#105 » by WindyCityBorn » Sun Feb 23, 2025 4:13 pm

ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
dawhizz wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:Really smart of AKME to upgrade from Lavine to Huerter


It’s really hard to overstate how little they got for Lavine. Their own pick back they would likely have anyway and three absolute scrubs.


Zach is really really bad that's all there is to it


No our front office is really really bad.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#106 » by MrSparkle » Sun Feb 23, 2025 4:28 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
WesPeace wrote:
He is good 6-7th guy on a playoff team.. you need twoway players, he is solid on offense and good on D and he is hometown kid. Whats not to like to keep him as rotational player? He can easily play 30min and even more on this pathetic team under this clueless coach.

On a good playoff team he is more of a 20-24min player. If he can be re-signed up to 14M per, you keep him.


So if you lock him in at 14m…

What does Coby get?


Coby gets traded this off season.


I’m really down on Coby… I could see him being used to trade up in this draft, but I don’t love that idea since I don’t love this FO’s gambles.

But I do see a slim chance he improves from this down year. All it takes is marginally better 3P shooting to drastically bump his stock (make 1 more per game! Brings him to 40%). And the defensive pairings were horrible.

Just scared you let him go for a 20th pick… we add another Dalen Phillips to the bench while he hits his prime elsewhere.

I’m ok with a 40/2 deal (at most). Everybody on these 2027 expiring deals. Even if he underperforms to that salary, you still have a long term system player who can consider a discount for his next deal.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#107 » by ShouldaPaidBG » Sun Feb 23, 2025 4:29 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
dawhizz wrote:
It’s really hard to overstate how little they got for Lavine. Their own pick back they would likely have anyway and three absolute scrubs.


Zach is really really bad that's all there is to it


No our front office is really really bad.


2 things can be true
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#108 » by WesPeace » Sun Feb 23, 2025 5:00 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
So if you lock him in at 14m…

What does Coby get?


Coby gets traded this off season.


I’m really down on Coby… I could see him being used to trade up in this draft, but I don’t love that idea since I don’t love this FO’s gambles.

But I do see a slim chance he improves from this down year. All it takes is marginally better 3P shooting to drastically bump his stock (make 1 more per game! Brings him to 40%). And the defensive pairings were horrible.

Just scared you let him go for a 20th pick… we add another Dalen Phillips to the bench while he hits his prime elsewhere.

I’m ok with a 40/2 deal (at most). Everybody on these 2027 expiring deals. Even if he underperforms to that salary, you still have a long term system player who can consider a discount for his next deal.


That would be reasonable deal, up to 18M, max max 20M per for 2 yrs..
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#109 » by ChettheJet » Sun Feb 23, 2025 5:26 pm

Some guys showed a lot, some had bad games, that's they way basketball is. Philips fouled out, that's why he needs to play more so he develops a sense for the game, stop reaching, know when and how to get up in somebody's face, he's got to learn that he's still a kid and the referees don't give him any slack against an all star so he has to pick and choose when he challenges a star. Giddey with work on his shot is somebody to keep next to Lonzo who is somebody to keep not a trade chip.

Hard for a resetting team to beat a three all star lineup with role players who don't try to do too much. It might serve as an educational loss, at this point losses to better teams aren't bad, they're good for the draft.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#110 » by Jcool0 » Sun Feb 23, 2025 6:04 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
So if you lock him in at 14m…

What does Coby get?


Coby gets traded this off season.


I’m really down on Coby… I could see him being used to trade up in this draft, but I don’t love that idea since I don’t love this FO’s gambles.

But I do see a slim chance he improves from this down year. All it takes is marginally better 3P shooting to drastically bump his stock (make 1 more per game! Brings him to 40%). And the defensive pairings were horrible.

Just scared you let him go for a 20th pick… we add another Dalen Phillips to the bench while he hits his prime elsewhere.

I’m ok with a 40/2 deal (at most). Everybody on these 2027 expiring deals. Even if he underperforms to that salary, you still have a long term system player who can consider a discount for his next deal.


Coby was around a 38% 3P shooter on 7 attempts last season and he still probably wouldn't be a starter on a contending team. He isn't the smartest player and doesn't play defense. He probably isn't a 18 ppg scorer on a better team and if hes not scoring he isn't contributing.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#111 » by WindyCityBorn » Sun Feb 23, 2025 6:15 pm

ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
Zach is really really bad that's all there is to it


No our front office is really really bad.


2 things can be true


No agrees with you that Zach is bad. Overpaid doesn’t equal bad.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#112 » by MrSparkle » Sun Feb 23, 2025 6:57 pm

[x][/x]
Jcool0 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
Coby gets traded this off season.


I’m really down on Coby… I could see him being used to trade up in this draft, but I don’t love that idea since I don’t love this FO’s gambles.

But I do see a slim chance he improves from this down year. All it takes is marginally better 3P shooting to drastically bump his stock (make 1 more per game! Brings him to 40%). And the defensive pairings were horrible.

Just scared you let him go for a 20th pick… we add another Dalen Phillips to the bench while he hits his prime elsewhere.

I’m ok with a 40/2 deal (at most). Everybody on these 2027 expiring deals. Even if he underperforms to that salary, you still have a long term system player who can consider a discount for his next deal.


Coby was around a 38% 3P shooter on 7 attempts last season and he still probably wouldn't be a starter on a contending team. He isn't the smartest player and doesn't play defense. He probably isn't a 18 ppg scorer on a better team and if hes not scoring he isn't contributing.


I don’t entirely agree. If he’s not scoring, Coby’s spacing is contributing. Nobody ever leaves him open at the arc. That’s the modern NBA, for better or worse.

I’m not married to Coby, but we have to acknowledge a pattern of giving up on players before they hit their primes. The list keeps growing. I’d say Coby is on a closer spectrum to Lauri, Gafford, Wendell as opposed to Hutchison, Valentine or Marko (out the league)… in addition to DJJ..Guys who immediately jumped in value after leaving.

It’s complicated because I certainly don’t want to sign him to big salary, but I also don’t want to dump him to move up 2 spots or for a 25th pick and some mediocre salary coming back. I think a short term 1y(2027-expiring) extension is the move. Pay him handsomely for that 1y and figure out the next roster with 100% cap flexibility. Bulls have the 26/27 cap to make this work without hitting luxury.

If VJ or whoever looks like a Westbrook/Wade stud in workouts and Bulls don’t have that 2-4 slot, Coby’s not gonna fetch that kind of talent with the 8-10 pick. Moving up for a guy like Kasparas seems to be waddling in circles as we work on developing a new guard with a long-shot all star ceiling.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#113 » by OldSchoolNoBull » Sun Feb 23, 2025 7:07 pm

The Sixers are annoying me. We keep losing but they won't win.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#114 » by ShouldaPaidBG » Sun Feb 23, 2025 7:38 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
2 things can be true


No agrees with you that Zach is bad. Overpaid doesn’t equal bad.


Zach is bad. Very. He can't dribble, pass, play defense, think, handle pressure, mesh with other players, hustle....
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#115 » by cocktailswith_2short » Sun Feb 23, 2025 7:41 pm

ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
2 things can be true


No agrees with you that Zach is bad. Overpaid doesn’t equal bad.


Zach is bad. Very. He can't dribble, pass, play defense, think, handle pressure, mesh with other players, hustle....

He was just good enough to ruin our chance at Flagg lol.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#116 » by RagingBull316 » Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:07 pm

cocktailswith_2short wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
No agrees with you that Zach is bad. Overpaid doesn’t equal bad.


Zach is bad. Very. He can't dribble, pass, play defense, think, handle pressure, mesh with other players, hustle....

He was just good enough to ruin our chance at Flagg lol.
Hot take here...Cooper Flag will never be as good as Lavine is.

He looks overrated, and I bet he's a bust.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#117 » by Jcool0 » Sun Feb 23, 2025 9:55 pm

RagingBull316 wrote:
cocktailswith_2short wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
Zach is bad. Very. He can't dribble, pass, play defense, think, handle pressure, mesh with other players, hustle....

He was just good enough to ruin our chance at Flagg lol.
Hot take here...Cooper Flag will never be as good as Lavine is.

He looks overrated, and I bet he's a bust.


A real hot take would be he is the most sure thing since LeBron James .
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#118 » by JimmyButler21 » Sun Feb 23, 2025 11:26 pm

RagingBull316 wrote:
cocktailswith_2short wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
Zach is bad. Very. He can't dribble, pass, play defense, think, handle pressure, mesh with other players, hustle....

He was just good enough to ruin our chance at Flagg lol.
Hot take here...Cooper Flag will never be as good as Lavine is.

He looks overrated, and I bet he's a bust.

This is quite the hot take. Cooper Flagg is destroying college basketball as a Freshman.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#119 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:20 am

JimmyButler21 wrote:
RagingBull316 wrote:
cocktailswith_2short wrote:He was just good enough to ruin our chance at Flagg lol.
Hot take here...Cooper Flag will never be as good as Lavine is.

He looks overrated, and I bet he's a bust.

This is quite the hot take. Cooper Flagg is destroying college basketball as a Freshman.


He’s no Wemby or Luka from what I’ve seen. He’s no Anthony Davis either. I don’t see generational talent.
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Re: Suns at Bulls 4pm 

Post#120 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:24 am

ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
ShouldaPaidBG wrote:
2 things can be true


No agrees with you that Zach is bad. Overpaid doesn’t equal bad.


Zach is bad. Very. He can't dribble, pass, play defense, think, handle pressure, mesh with other players, hustle....


So you’re a troll. Got it.

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