PG: Knicks vs. Celtics: At least that 3rd quarter was encouraging...

[HEZI]

The Cavs were kids 2 years ago. There was some improvement that obviously had nothing to do with coaching.

Not just that but Garland had a broken jaw which caused him to miss like 2 months and lost 12 lbs because he was drinking through a straw. Obviously you aren’t going to be at your peak performance after an injury like that.

Evan Mobley is still only 23 years old but hes certainly gotten better now. Would have happened regardless

Their depth is without question much better. They have a legit 6MOY candidate in Ty Jerome and added another player who would start on most teams in Deandre Hunter. Their depth has improved a ton

[mpharris36]

The Cavs were kids 2 years ago. There was some improvement that obviously had nothing to do with coaching.

Like what

Like their young players got better obviously

so all just internal player development? The knicks and cavs avg age is nearly identical.

Just last year they were 16th in the league in OFF and 12th in the league in NET rating

And now they are 1st in the league in OFF and 2nd in the league in NET rating.

Its all because Mobley has gotten better? (btw his offensive EFF has went from 63% to 64% so not a crazy jump).

Atkinson get no credit for there massive jump?

[mpharris36]

Their depth is without question much better. They have a legit 6MOY candidate in Ty Jerome and added another player who would start on most teams in Deandre Hunter. Their depth has improved a ton

Ty Jerome is 27 years old and is on his 4th team in 6 years. He was on the Cavs last year and bickerstaff never played him. So all of Ty Jerome's development just happened in the offseason? Or he found a coach that utilizes his skills within there offense?

[Red Vines]

In hindsight this team needed a vocal Draymond type defensive floor leader to be a contender this year. But Thibs has shown he's not able to maximize our offensive talent anyway, too many times we struggle to get the ball up the floor against pressure and get open shots. Whatever Thibs is trying it just looks like the team stopped buying in, we need a new coach this summer. After that I would figure out how get OG to take a leadership role on defense and figure out if KAT can clean up his sloppy defense or not. This team still has a lot of untapped potential imo.

[dakomish23]

Yup Mobley was 21 and Garland was 23. Now both are all-stars.

Garland made an all star team at 22. Also Mobley was 3rd in DPOY voting in 2023.

Everyone covering CLE was wondering if they were going to trade Garland after he cratered & thought Mobley would never meet his potential.

This myth that "They just finally blossomed on their own " is insane. The coach changing their entire system had nothing to do with that?

[JayTWill]

The amount of hoops some people jump through to protect Thibs and not give another coach credit is wild. What has Thibs done to have this type of blind loyalty? Did things get so dark here that Thibs will be forever hailed as the savior or something?

[dakomish23]

What was conveniently left out of the hoops collective discussion on here is that we used drop coverage 48% of the time against BOS, which is the most they've faced that defense by far, and they're scoring 1.3 PPP which is equal to a 133 ORTG.

Coach's decision. But no don't you dare blame him!

[dakomish23]

The amount of hoops some people jump through to protect Thibs and not give another coach credit is wild. What has Thibs done to have this type of blind loyalty? Did things get so dark here that Thibs will be forever hailed as the savior or something?

It has nothing to do with Thibs, he's just the fig leaf for the agenda

[HEZI]

Their depth is without question much better. They have a legit 6MOY candidate in Ty Jerome and added another player who would start on most teams in Deandre Hunter. Their depth has improved a ton

Ty Jerome is 27 years old and is on his 4th team in 6 years. He was on the Cavs last year and bickerstaff never played him. So all of Ty Jerome's development just happened in the offseason? Or he found a coach that utilizes his skills within there offense?

He’s been productive whenever given minutes but he’s certainly improved individually as well.
He was getting 18 mpg under Kerr in GS and wasn’t putting up anywhere near his numbers in Cleveland where he still only plays 19 mpg. He’s improved individually.

Why did those other teams cut him if he was so great at that time?

[mpharris36]

What was conveniently left out of the hoops collective discussion is that we used drop coverage 48% of the time against BOS, which is the most they've faced that defense by far, and they're scoring 1.3 PPP which is equal to a 133 ORTG.

Coach's decision. But no don't you dare blame him!

running 50% drop vs the team that attempts by far the most 3 pt shots in the league at a top of the league conversion rate is down right insanity!!!

with a big that isn't even good in drop coverage!

[HEZI]

The amount of hoops some people jump through to protect Thibs and not give another coach credit is wild. What has Thibs done to have this type of blind loyalty? Did things get so dark here that Thibs will be forever hailed as the savior or something?

It’s actually quite easy when you make the laziest arguments that are easily refuted by simple truth and reality. It’s you who is jumping through hoops and still end up wrong which is why it’s so funny

[DOT]

The amount of hoops some people jump through to protect Thibs and not give another coach credit is wild. What has Thibs done to have this type of blind loyalty? Did things get so dark here that Thibs will be forever hailed as the savior or something?

It has nothing to do with Thibs, he's just the fig leaf for the agenda

Basically

It's just trolling. They will freely admit to it too, they don't take anything seriously and just want to mock people for taking things seriously.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The Cavs were 10th in the NBA last season in PnR frequency, they're 2nd this year, they were 22nd in Pace last year, they're 5th this year. Last year Garland and Mitchell averaged 155 touches per game, this year they average 122 per game, last year Mobley was 4th on the team in front court touches, this year he's first. The numbers on how drastically different the team plays now aren't a result of player development


Guan0 is right, this is debating with climate change deniers.

[mpharris36]

Their depth is without question much better. They have a legit 6MOY candidate in Ty Jerome and added another player who would start on most teams in Deandre Hunter. Their depth has improved a ton

Ty Jerome is 27 years old and is on his 4th team in 6 years. He was on the Cavs last year and bickerstaff never played him. So all of Ty Jerome's development just happened in the offseason? Or he found a coach that utilizes his skills within there offense?

He’s been productive whenever given minutes but he’s certainly improved individually as well.
He was getting 18 mpg under Kerr in GS and wasn’t putting up anywhere near his numbers in Cleveland where he still only plays 19 mpg. He’s improved individually.

Why did those other teams cut him if he was so great at that time?

Of course he has improved individually...and development isn't always linear. But in stints in OKC and GS he proved he can score a bit. It was always where does he fit because he really isn't a great defender. But my point remains. He was on CLE last year and never played a lick.

Is that because he was bad last year (and you mentioned earlier the Cavs had more injuries last year so even more reason to have a deeper bench) or is that because the better coach realized he had someone that could play within his system and contribute to the team?

[dakomish23]

What was conveniently left out of the hoops collective discussion is that we used drop coverage 48% of the time against BOS, which is the most they've faced that defense by far, and they're scoring 1.3 PPP which is equal to a 133 ORTG.

Coach's decision. But no don't you dare blame him!

running 50% drop vs the team that attempts by far the most 3 pt shots in the league at a top of the league conversion rate is down right insanity!!!

with a big that isn't even good in drop coverage!

Has Thibs remotely changed his defensive approach since 2007?

[dakomish23]

The Cavs were 10th in the NBA last season in PnR frequency, they're 2nd this year, they were 22nd in Pace last year, they're 5th this year. Last year Garland and Mitchell averaged 155 touches per game, this year they average 122 per game, last year Mobley was 4th on the team in front court touches, this year he's first. The numbers on how drastically different the team plays now aren't a result of player development


Guan0 is right, this is debating with climate change deniers.

"tHeY wOuLd hAvE bEeN tHiS gOod uNdEr BiCKeRsTaFf" We just didn't let the blossoming happen yet such impatient gardeners

[HEZI]

Ty Jerome is 27 years old and is on his 4th team in 6 years. He was on the Cavs last year and bickerstaff never played him. So all of Ty Jerome's development just happened in the offseason? Or he found a coach that utilizes his skills within there offense?

He’s been productive whenever given minutes but he’s certainly improved individually as well.
He was getting 18 mpg under Kerr in GS and wasn’t putting up anywhere near his numbers in Cleveland where he still only plays 19 mpg. He’s improved individually.

Why did those other teams cut him if he was so great at that time?

Of course he has improved individually...and development isn't always linear. But in stints in OKC and GS he proved he can score a bit. It was always where does he fit because he really isn't a great defender. But my point remains. He was on CLE last year and never played a lick.

Is that because he was bad last year (and you mentioned earlier the Cavs had more injuries last year so even more reason to have a deeper bench) or is that because the better coach realized he had someone that could play within his system and contribute to the team?

He’s basically their Donte

Read on Twitter

?s=46

Thibs has done the same with past players.

What now you think Atkinson is turning Cam Payne into a 50/40/88 6MOY candidate?

[Spree2Houston]

Yup Mobley was 21 and Garland was 23. Now both are all-stars.

Garland made an all star team at 22. Also Mobley was 3rd in DPOY voting in 2023.

And they got better. Garland turned out to be the best player from his draft and will be a perennial All-Star going forward. Mobley will be the DPOY this season

[HEZI]

What was conveniently left out of the hoops collective discussion is that we used drop coverage 48% of the time against BOS, which is the most they've faced that defense by far, and they're scoring 1.3 PPP which is equal to a 133 ORTG.

Coach's decision. But no don't you dare blame him!

running 50% drop vs the team that attempts by far the most 3 pt shots in the league at a top of the league conversion rate is down right insanity!!!

with a big that isn't even good in drop coverage!

And yet they made less 3s than their average

Seems like there is a bigger issue being ignored here. They hunted us on the interior

[Spree2Houston]

Yup Mobley was 21 and Garland was 23. Now both are all-stars.

Garland made an all star team at 22. Also Mobley was 3rd in DPOY voting in 2023.

Everyone covering CLE was wondering if they were going to trade Garland after he cratered & thought Mobley would never meet his potential.

This myth that "They just finally blossomed on their own " is insane. The coach changing their entire system had nothing to do with that?

To be fair, Garland and Mobley were both top 5 picks and either would’ve became all-stars on different teams. They’re not system players. If you want to say Atkinson accelerated that process then I’ll give you that. But they would’ve eventually turned into the players they are today with any other coach.

A new coach could elevate Bridges into an All-Star but I have my doubts about that.