PG: Knicks vs. Celtics: At least that 3rd quarter was encouraging...

[NoDopeOnSundays]

nobody is even saying we need to keep thibs in here lol

This isn't even your best troll job, I expect better, I know you're rusty but come on nah.



Ps. I know you seen my work making people think you were in prison, I flipped it

[god shammgod]

i honestly could care less if he's fired. but you'll never convince me that he's why the defense is bad. no way.

[HEZI]

Problem with the crybaby argument is that everything is solved by a simple scheme or rotation adjustment. Failing to see any flaws within the roster because y’all fell in love with the idea. It’s the same way y’all were so attached to Stinkilikina because you fell in love with the idea and couldn’t cope with the reality. The players have glaring weaknesses too and your suggested coaching methods aren’t going to fix those issues.

[mpharris36]

i honestly could care less if he's fired. but you'll never convince me that he's why the defense is bad. no way.

thats fine, but we are playing games on the margins. Then even extrapolate our issues vs the top 3 teams and its even more pronounced.

No one said we had to be better than BOS this year...BOS doesn't seem to have any weaknesses outside of if they go cold form 3. But we shouldn't also be getting blown out by these teams every time we play them. Teams that we handle and beat don't get beat by them as badly.

Also not saying we need to be a top 10 defensive team we don't. We need to be better than 20th and we are far worse than 20th when we play those 3 teams. So you have to admit there is something schematically wrong.

A couple known facts that I think you would agree with.

We run mainly drop coverage? Yes
We run drop even vs teams that we shouldnt be running drop? Yes
KAT is bad at drop coverage? Yes

SO WHY RUN SO MUCH DROP COVERAGE?

Because Thibs is stubborn and doesn't adjust. Its why we play very well vs DEN...drop doesn't hurt you vs a team like DEN. It doesn't hurt you against a team like MIL. You DEF scheme should adjust with your personnel and your opp.

Also no one is talking about the offensive side of the ball. Can you explain why we are a top 5 offensive in the league but anytime we play a team that just switches we have no counters to that other than Brunson ISO's or KAT post ups from 20 feet away?

I think you would agree we at least have a very talented offensive...why is there such a big variance that we can't score vs those teams? What is our OFF system even? Read a react...and we have no counters?

[Fury]

i honestly could care less if he's fired. but you'll never convince me that he's why the defense is bad. no way.

Look that’s fair and all but please just use couldn’t care less.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

i honestly could care less if he's fired. but you'll never convince me that he's why the defense is bad. no way.

thats fine, but we are playing games on the margins. Then even extrapolate our issues vs the top 3 teams and its even more pronounced.

No one said we had to be better than BOS this year...BOS doesn't seem to have any weaknesses outside of if they go cold form 3. But we shouldn't also be getting blown out by these teams every time we play them. Teams that we handle and beat don't get beat by them as badly.

Also not saying we need to be a top 10 defensive team we don't. We need to be better than 20th and we are far worth than 20th when we play those 3 teams. So you have to admit there is something schematically wrong.

A couple known facts that I think you would agree with.

We run mainly drop coverage? Yes
We run drop even vs teams that we shouldnt be running drop? Yes
KAT is bad at drop coverage? Yes

SO WHY RUN SO MUCH DROP COVERAGE?

Because Thibs is stubborn and doesn't adjust. Its why we play very well vs DEN...drop doesn't hurt you vs a team like DEN. It doesn't hurt you against a team like MIL. You DEF scheme should adjust with your personnel and your opp.

Also no one is talking about the offensive side of the ball. Can you explain why we are a top 5 offensive in the league but anytime we play a team that just switches we have no counters to that other than Brunson ISO's or KAT post ups from 20 feet away?

I think you would agree we at least have a very talented offensive...why is there such a big variance that we can't score vs those teams? What is our OFF system even? Read a react...and we have no counters?

We're 6th in post frequency while being in the 31st percentile, 27th in three pointers attempted 5th in percentage. Those numbers alone are nasty work. The good teams can contain the post up attempts, which is why our offense falls apart against great defenses more often than not.


We also don't use a lot of screens, it's a weird junk offense that gets by on talent.

[Gravy]

There are some people who can call things for what it is. Thibs is good coach but may need to make some adjustments.

There are other people that are such stans that you can figure out exactly what they're gonna say about every situation cause to them, everything is black and white. No gray area, no middle ground.

Thibs is a good coach that may need to make some adjustments is fair. IMO I dont see enough adjustments that can be made with our roster to make us better than the top three teams, they are stacked compared to the rest of the NBA just like we can beat any team in the NBA except them.

Fans are like 'lets counter Mobley with Hukporti' or 'substitute OG with Shamet' 'start Deuce' and these dont sound like good options against elite teams. The argument comes down to fans thinking the players are much better than they are and that has not been the case with any of our players on other teams. KAT has always been this bad defensively, Cam and Shamet have been barely on rosters, Hart was never given this much responsibility etc.. They are all about the same or worse than they are here. Logically that makes me think Thibs is getting the best out of the team.

[Fury]

There are some people who can call things for what it is. Thibs is good coach but may need to make some adjustments.

There are other people that are such stans that you can figure out exactly what they're gonna say about every situation cause to them, everything is black and white. No gray area, no middle ground.

Thibs is a good coach that may need to make some adjustments is fair. IMO I dont see enough adjustments that can be made with our roster to make us better than the top three teams, they are stacked compared to the rest of the NBA just like we can beat any team in the NBA except them.

Fans are like 'lets counter Mobley with Hukporti' or 'substitute OG with Shamet' 'start Deuce' and these dont sound like good options against elite teams. The argument comes down to fans thinking the players are much better than they are and that has not been the case with any of our players on other teams. KAT has always been this bad defensively, Cam and Shamet have been barely on rosters, Hart was never given this much responsibility etc.. They are all about the same or worse than they are here. Logically that makes me think Thibs is getting the best out of the team.

I feel like Thibs makes adjustments but it takes him a minute. He will eventually make the adjustment, hopefully.

[j4remi]

The roster has flaws. The coach has flaws. There's time to fix one or the other because the core is reasonably young. The team has the third-best record in the East, but has to find a way to make that last leap. If the question is "what's holding the team back from being contenders?" The answer's "All the above" but solving a problem could be a domino...like what appears to have happened with Cleveland this season.

[mpharris36]

i honestly could care less if he's fired. but you'll never convince me that he's why the defense is bad. no way.

thats fine, but we are playing games on the margins. Then even extrapolate our issues vs the top 3 teams and its even more pronounced.

No one said we had to be better than BOS this year...BOS doesn't seem to have any weaknesses outside of if they go cold form 3. But we shouldn't also be getting blown out by these teams every time we play them. Teams that we handle and beat don't get beat by them as badly.

Also not saying we need to be a top 10 defensive team we don't. We need to be better than 20th and we are far worth than 20th when we play those 3 teams. So you have to admit there is something schematically wrong.

A couple known facts that I think you would agree with.

We run mainly drop coverage? Yes
We run drop even vs teams that we shouldnt be running drop? Yes
KAT is bad at drop coverage? Yes

SO WHY RUN SO MUCH DROP COVERAGE?

Because Thibs is stubborn and doesn't adjust. Its why we play very well vs DEN...drop doesn't hurt you vs a team like DEN. It doesn't hurt you against a team like MIL. You DEF scheme should adjust with your personnel and your opp.

Also no one is talking about the offensive side of the ball. Can you explain why we are a top 5 offensive in the league but anytime we play a team that just switches we have no counters to that other than Brunson ISO's or KAT post ups from 20 feet away?

I think you would agree we at least have a very talented offensive...why is there such a big variance that we can't score vs those teams? What is our OFF system even? Read a react...and we have no counters?

We're 6th in post frequency while being in the 31st percentile, 27th in three pointers attempted 5th in percentage. Those numbers alone are nasty work. The good teams can contain the post up attempts, which is why our offense falls apart against great defenses more often than not.


We also don't use a lot of screens, it's a weird junk offense that gets by on talent.

The not using a lot of screens is just really weird. Are we just worried about Brunson getting trapped?

That is why Hart should be more involved as a screener...if Brunson is trapped Hart should get it the quick roll spot...then we are attacking the defense 4 on 3...which should be a huge advantage.

Also we rarely run plays to get our wings open looks...unless they are getting shots off the catch and shoot they aren't getting many opportunities outside of transition.

Its not surprising at our post up being so low...like why is KAT getting the ball out so far out. Once you get the mismatch we should swing the ball to the other side and then set up a cross screen to get KAT the ball deep in the post. THat will either force a double or KAT should be able to cook that close. We are asking him to do too much 20 feet away from the basket.

[mpharris36]

The roster has flaws. The coach has flaws. There's time to fix one or the other because the core is reasonably young. The team has the third-best record in the East, but has to find a way to make that last leap. If the question is "what's holding the team back from being contenders?" The answer's "All the above" but solving a problem could be a domino...like what appears to have happened with Cleveland this season.

there are also only so many levers you can pull.

The roster is pretty much the roster...so the FO clearly believed in roster...doesn't mean all needed to be sorted out in year 1.

Macri said as much, we can make some moves on the margins in the offseason maybe one or two to give us more depth...but barring a complete overhaul of the roster which I don't expect after 1 season with this group.

The one avenue to look at is the coach getting the most out of the group. A lot of underlying metrics on both sides of the ball suggest we aren't. That doesn't mean Thibs is a bad coach...our roster may just have outgrown him.

[Guano]

Well damn, disappointing that sham is a flat earther

[JXL]

Legler's comments on the Knicks' ghastly defense vs. Boston @ 20:37

Watch on YouTube

[NoDopeOnSundays]

thats fine, but we are playing games on the margins. Then even extrapolate our issues vs the top 3 teams and its even more pronounced.

No one said we had to be better than BOS this year...BOS doesn't seem to have any weaknesses outside of if they go cold form 3. But we shouldn't also be getting blown out by these teams every time we play them. Teams that we handle and beat don't get beat by them as badly.

Also not saying we need to be a top 10 defensive team we don't. We need to be better than 20th and we are far worth than 20th when we play those 3 teams. So you have to admit there is something schematically wrong.

A couple known facts that I think you would agree with.

We run mainly drop coverage? Yes
We run drop even vs teams that we shouldnt be running drop? Yes
KAT is bad at drop coverage? Yes

SO WHY RUN SO MUCH DROP COVERAGE?

Because Thibs is stubborn and doesn't adjust. Its why we play very well vs DEN...drop doesn't hurt you vs a team like DEN. It doesn't hurt you against a team like MIL. You DEF scheme should adjust with your personnel and your opp.

Also no one is talking about the offensive side of the ball. Can you explain why we are a top 5 offensive in the league but anytime we play a team that just switches we have no counters to that other than Brunson ISO's or KAT post ups from 20 feet away?

I think you would agree we at least have a very talented offensive...why is there such a big variance that we can't score vs those teams? What is our OFF system even? Read a react...and we have no counters?

We're 6th in post frequency while being in the 31st percentile, 27th in three pointers attempted 5th in percentage. Those numbers alone are nasty work. The good teams can contain the post up attempts, which is why our offense falls apart against great defenses more often than not.


We also don't use a lot of screens, it's a weird junk offense that gets by on talent.

The not using a lot of screens is just really weird. Are we just worried about Brunson getting trapped?

That is why Hart should be more involved as a screener...if Brunson is trapped Hart should get it the quick roll spot...then we are attacking the defense 4 on 3...which should be a huge advantage.

Also we rarely run plays to get our wings open looks...unless they are getting shots off the catch and shoot they aren't getting many opportunities outside of transition.

Its not surprising at our post up being so low...like why is KAT getting the ball out so far out. Once you get the mismatch we should swing the ball to the other side and then set up a cross screen to get KAT the ball deep in the post. THat will either force a double or KAT should be able to cook that close. We are asking him to do too much 20 feet away from the basket.

The defense should get better if they're playing 2 bigs, but the issue will be on offense that Tom isn't really creative enough to offset whatever hit we take there. We'll be back to relying on offensive rebounds which will work against everyone but the Celtics, because it didn't work last season either, we had a 130 DRTG in the games Mitch started vs them last year, he was -17.8 in his starts. It's because the Celtics can match us with two bigs Horford/KP, and their bigs can space, or they can use Tatum to catch the rollman on screens.


We'll see KAT on the block, Mitch in the dunkers spot, with KP on Mitch so that if KAT drives there's a 7'3" dude waiting, if Mitch sets a screen KP just drops off him and guards space. It happened last season, we were 1-4 against them for a reason, and that goes beyond just who is on the court. They exploit what we do, they hurt us for not taking high volume threes, they punish us for posting up, and now they've started to leak out in transition knowing we crash the boards. To even have a chance against the Celtics you have to basically take as many threes as them, we're never going to take threes at a high volume.


We'll continue to beat the same teams. The Cavs are the one the two bigs could work against, but the Celtics will eat that up all the same.

[j4remi]

The roster has flaws. The coach has flaws. There's time to fix one or the other because the core is reasonably young. The team has the third-best record in the East, but has to find a way to make that last leap. If the question is "what's holding the team back from being contenders?" The answer's "All the above" but solving a problem could be a domino...like what appears to have happened with Cleveland this season.

there are also only so many levers you can pull.

The roster is pretty much the roster...so the FO clearly believed in roster...doesn't mean all needed to be sorted out in year 1.

Macri said as much, we can make some moves on the margins in the offseason maybe one or two to give us more depth...but barring a complete overhaul of the roster which I don't expect after 1 season with this group.

The one avenue to look at is the coach getting the most out of the group. A lot of underlying metrics on both sides of the ball suggest we aren't. That doesn't mean Thibs is a bad coach...our roster may just have outgrown him.

I'm not expecting the FO to work a miracle, but I think the second apron era is gonna continue to be pretty weird for a while. There may be surprising opportunities, even with the current limitations. I'll be curious to see if they try some random cleverness before locking Bridges' extension in or something.

Switching Thibs out is definitely another path, but I don't see it happening that quickly. There's risk to making that change too. I'm not a fan of Thibodeau, but we're fresh off seeing how stagnant players can be under a Fizdale, Rambis, or Hornacek. There are coaches I'd take over Thibs, but they're kinda all taken.

[PostGameDaVinci]

We've always known that Thibs isn't a championship coach and would eventually wear out his welcome. That time has come.

But even if we had prime Spo/Pop/Jackson/Auerbach coaching, we're not winning with this roster. Too many holes on both sides of the court.

Just a few years ago we trying to talk ourselves into Ntilikina & Knox. Now we're a top 3 team in the conference. Imma just enjoy having a competitive team and keep avoiding the Celtics fans at work. Hopefully we can trade for a #1 option soon and be smart enough not to make it a Melo situation.

[Reign23]

This obv isn‘t on one person. The roster has its flaws and evey player has too. But saying the Thibs hasn‘t been terrible is flat out insanity.

I dont see how the 4th best record in the NBA is terrible. This is what I mean by around here you wouldn't know Thibs has done anything good.

I should have clarified. I meant in this game and especially against the top teams. Not saying he has done everything wrong or that he is one of the worst coaches. I think he is average. definitely not good tho.

[TheGreenArrow]

Watch on YouTube

Bt nails it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nedleeds]

nobody is even saying we need to keep thibs in here lol

I've been calling him fake since the Tampa Raptors. He is at best a seat warmer, but throw in his rotations, acute minutes in sunk games, and total lack of series adjustments he might be good for -4 points a game. If you think he impacts our injury prone roster maybe more. He's -6 in a playoff series between clueless in game antics and no adjustments or counters.

We weren't winning anything with Randle and Donte either except maybe the February Championship but at least we had some flexibility.

[thebuzzardman]

The roster has flaws. The coach has flaws. There's time to fix one or the other because the core is reasonably young. The team has the third-best record in the East, but has to find a way to make that last leap. If the question is "what's holding the team back from being contenders?" The answer's "All the above" but solving a problem could be a domino...like what appears to have happened with Cleveland this season.

there are also only so many levers you can pull.

The roster is pretty much the roster...so the FO clearly believed in roster...doesn't mean all needed to be sorted out in year 1.

Macri said as much, we can make some moves on the margins in the offseason maybe one or two to give us more depth...but barring a complete overhaul of the roster which I don't expect after 1 season with this group.

The one avenue to look at is the coach getting the most out of the group. A lot of underlying metrics on both sides of the ball suggest we aren't. That doesn't mean Thibs is a bad coach...our roster may just have outgrown him.

The core needs to be overhauled. It blows.
Thibs can go too.