RS 24/25 - Mavs @ Lakers (Tuesd 10PM EST)

[GermanFan120]

If Luka gets to win one of those awards, Nico will get run out of town for sure.

IMO that's the best comeback because that's what he was traded away for. He wasn't traded away because he had difficulty getting triple doubles or shooting a stepback 3.

Steve Nash was sent packing because Cuban thought his back wouldn't hold up. He responded by winning the MVP award. That's how you do a comeback. Tell the guy that sent you packing that you could do the thing they said you wont be able to.

Luka was traded away not because he doesn't play defense or he is fat.

It was because Nico had hidden agenda or he likes sucking Pelinka's dick or simply both.

Be that it may, the hope is to motivate him to do better. LA media is reporting "it has woken up a beast inside Luka". So again if there is no beast to be waken up, that is fine and all. I prefer him to do better so I'm on the side that I hope it does.

Do you prefer Mavs to do better? If yes, what does the roadmap look like?

[arkuo]

Luka was traded away not because he doesn't play defense or he is fat.

It was because Nico had hidden agenda or he likes sucking Pelinka's dick or simply both.

Be that it may, the hope is to motivate him to do better. LA media is reporting "it has woken up a beast inside Luka". So again if there is no beast to be waken up, that is fine and all. I prefer him to do better so I'm on the side that I hope it does.

Do you prefer Mavs to do better? If yes, what does the roadmap look like?

Mavs need to get AD back on the floor and base our judgement on that. Really small sample size with Kyrie and AD but the eye test says it should be a balanced team. 29 other teams lose out on a ring very year. So Mavs need to get things to click with these two. I think if healthy they put themselves in a position for a good shot. Gets you to the WCF and I think they can compete against OKC. Then it's anyone's ball game in the finals.

[41Dirk41]

No. Winning a championship is what does it, not all defense. Its not like luka can even get that because he missed too many games.

We will see. Nicos dream might come true this summer if kyrie opts out. Then he can sign Dunn to be his starting pg, and we will see if defense wins a championship for him

Agree.

Winning championships is the goal, not those fake awards. Nobody cares about all defensive team.
Gobert was a 3 time DPOY and he is overrated as hell.

And even if Luka will not win championships there (that it's impossible for me honestly...) Mavs have to win anyway to justify the trade because our future is screwed.
Don't forget Nico' words, we are in better position now and in the future to win.

Nico can't save his ass just by hoping Luka fails.
Too easy.

Next summer the pression on him will be insane and i'm expect another very dumb move.

Let's set the record straight. I would like to see Luka win a championship AND improve his game and conditioning. Both can be done. It's not either or. I don't want him to just win one just for the sake of. Look, it can be done. He's shown he can play defense when he's inspired to. Don't you like him to improve parts of his game? You like him to remain the same? I like him shooting better free throws. I like him getting less technical fouls every year. You don't like that too? I'm confused.

A fan hoping the player does well is a good thing. Why is it a bad thing? The whole "if you don't agree with us, you're against us" mindset doesn't work every time. That's what message boards are for.

Immagine Par Riley trades (for pennies) LeBron after 2011 because he can shoots 3s, he is bad at FTs, he is a proven loser and he disappears every time in 4/4.
That's the point.

Free throw, defense, conditioning ecc ecc are just bullshits. You are free to continue to write those stuffs and change the reality for justify that trade.
But it's useless.

Obviously you are free to he happy about it but Mavericks will spend next 10/15 years to find another Luka Doncic with probably no rings in the process.

It's already the worst trade in sport history and Luka doesn't even win a championship yet.
It can be only worse with time.

[41Dirk41]

Be that it may, the hope is to motivate him to do better. LA media is reporting "it has woken up a beast inside Luka". So again if there is no beast to be waken up, that is fine and all. I prefer him to do better so I'm on the side that I hope it does.

Do you prefer Mavs to do better? If yes, what does the roadmap look like?

Mavs need to get AD back on the floor and base our judgement on that. Really small sample size with Kyrie and AD but the eye test says it should be a balanced team. 29 other teams lose out on a ring very year. So Mavs need to get things to click with these two. I think if healthy they put themselves in a position for a good shot. Gets you to the WCF and I think they can compete against OKC. Then it's anyone's ball game in the finals.

Anthony street clothes day-to-Davis.

Best regards.

[arkuo]

It's already the worst trade in sport history and Luka doesn't even win a championship yet.

This is an opinion that varies from one person to another my friend.

For me it's Dirk for Robert Traylor. One All NBA talent for a scrub.

[41Dirk41]

It's already the worst trade in sport history and Luka doesn't even win a championship yet.

This is an opinion that varies from one person to another my friend.

For me it's Dirk for Robert Traylor. One All NBA talent for a scrub.

You're just doing revisionism, just like if someone talk about PG13 for SGA and J-Dub.
Those are gambles, sometimes went bad sometimes went good. It's different.

Luka trade was horrible from day 1 and probably it will be even worse with time.

No mention that the franchise has lost plus or less 500M yet from value, merchandising , tickets ecc ecc

[arkuo]

It's already the worst trade in sport history and Luka doesn't even win a championship yet.

This is an opinion that varies from one person to another my friend.

For me it's Dirk for Robert Traylor. One All NBA talent for a scrub.

You're just doing revisionism, just like if someone talk about PG13 for SGA and J-Dub.
Those are gambles, sometimes went bad sometimes went good. It's different.

Luka trade was horrible from day 1 and probably it will be even worse with time.

No mention that the franchise has lost plus or less 500M yet from value, merchandising , tickets ecc ecc

What do you mean revisionism? The topic of "worst trade of all time" varies from person to person. How can you have billions of people in the world agree to just one answer?

I didn't say it wasn't a horrible trade. I actually agree with you. Luka for AD, Max and 1st is a bad trade. Dirk for Traylor was also a bad trade. Both can be true. Which one finds it worst is just subjective from person to person. What's wrong with that? If people don't agree with it then how is it wrong? It's just a different opinion.

[41Dirk41]

This is an opinion that varies from one person to another my friend.

For me it's Dirk for Robert Traylor. One All NBA talent for a scrub.

You're just doing revisionism, just like if someone talk about PG13 for SGA and J-Dub.
Those are gambles, sometimes went bad sometimes went good. It's different.

Luka trade was horrible from day 1 and probably it will be even worse with time.

No mention that the franchise has lost plus or less 500M yet from value, merchandising , tickets ecc ecc

What do you mean revisionism? The topic of "worst trade of all time" varies from person to person. How can you have billions of people in the world agree to just one answer?

I didn't say it wasn't a horrible trade. I actually agree with you. Luka for AD, Max and 1st is a bad trade. Dirk for Traylor was also a bad trade. Both can be true. Which one finds it worst is just subjective from person to person. What's wrong with that? If people don't agree with it then how is it wrong? It's just a different opinion.

Yes, it's subjective but it's not a 50/50 for sure and not even a 70/30... Just a few of people think that Luka trade is not the worst in sport history.

A few people also think that the earth is flat or Covid was a fake. So...

[arkuo]

You're just doing revisionism, just like if someone talk about PG13 for SGA and J-Dub.
Those are gambles, sometimes went bad sometimes went good. It's different.

Luka trade was horrible from day 1 and probably it will be even worse with time.

No mention that the franchise has lost plus or less 500M yet from value, merchandising , tickets ecc ecc

What do you mean revisionism? The topic of "worst trade of all time" varies from person to person. How can you have billions of people in the world agree to just one answer?

I didn't say it wasn't a horrible trade. I actually agree with you. Luka for AD, Max and 1st is a bad trade. Dirk for Traylor was also a bad trade. Both can be true. Which one finds it worst is just subjective from person to person. What's wrong with that? If people don't agree with it then how is it wrong? It's just a different opinion.

Yes, it's subjective but it's not a 50/50 for sure and not even a 70/30... Just a few of people think that Luka trade is not the worst in sport history.

A few people also think that the earth is flat or Covid was a fake. So...

So in the topic of fairness, what would constitute a fair 50/50 (as you would put it) Luka trade for you then?

List it down so we can see what a fair trade would look like for it not to be branded as the worst of all time.

Most Luka stans I ask this question to can't list it down. That is because they are emotionally attached to the player. Which proves the topic of fairness being subjective from person to person. Which also means no amount of assets would be able to satisfy said trade to be fair in their eyes.

Lakers can trade 15 first round picks, 37 second rounders, Rob Pelinka's leather jacket, Jeanie Buss' first born child, Anne Hathaway's virginity, AD, Max Christie and it would still be the "worst trade of all time" for some. Give us an example of how it would be a fair trade then. Please list it down below.

[arkuo]

We're still waiting on your trade. Please list it down below. Let's see it.

[arkuo]

Here let me help you out.

Luka, Kleber, Morris

for

AD, Christie
2027 1st rounder
2031 first rounder
2033 first rounder
2035 first rounder
2037 first rounder

So essentially 5 Laker first rounders. Does this constitute a fair trade to you?

Emotionally attached fans feel this isn't enough. Having emotional attachments in play doesn't make it valid anymore. Which just means you're not complaining about the lack of picks, you're just complaining, period. Doesn't move the conversation forward.

[Mavrelous]

Here let me help you out.

Luka, Kleber, Morris

for

AD, Christie
2027 1st rounder
2031 first rounder
2033 first rounder
2035 first rounder
2037 first rounder

So essentially 5 Laker first rounders. Does this constitute a fair trade to you?

Emotionally attached fans feel this isn't enough. Having emotional attachments in play doesn't make it valid anymore. Which just means you're not complaining about the lack of picks, you're just complaining, period. Doesn't move the conversation forward.

There is no trade because you don't trade a player who is perenial 1st teamm all NBA, led you to the WCF in 22 despite having very flawed roster and led you to the finals in 24, very popular, no off court issues, and no drama around him, loved by the fans, but if you want to ask me what was avaialable out there, here is an attempt:

Amen Thompson
Cam Whitmore
Reed Sheppard
Jalen Green
25, 27, 29 Suns 1st
Mavs 29 1st back


Elite talent is very rare currency in the NBA, pompous execs full of themselves are dime a dozen..

[arkuo]

Here let me help you out.

Luka, Kleber, Morris

for

AD, Christie
2027 1st rounder
2031 first rounder
2033 first rounder
2035 first rounder
2037 first rounder

So essentially 5 Laker first rounders. Does this constitute a fair trade to you?

Emotionally attached fans feel this isn't enough. Having emotional attachments in play doesn't make it valid anymore. Which just means you're not complaining about the lack of picks, you're just complaining, period. Doesn't move the conversation forward.

There is no trade because you don't trade a player who is perenial 1st teamm all NBA, led you to the WCF in 22 despite having very flawed roster and led you to the finals in 24, very popular, no off court issues, and no drama around him, loved by the fans, but if you want to ask me what was avaialable out there, here is an attempt:

Amen Thompson
Cam Whitmore
Reed Sheppard
Jalen Green
25, 27, 29 Suns 1st
Mavs 29 1st back

I understand your point man. I'm just driving mine forward because I was forced to agree to a claim of it being the worst trade of all time.

Now objectively speaking, it is the team management's legitimate right to trade a player to another team where they themselves find a better fitting piece (to them). It's not against the law to trade a player. Which drives my point that if they did do a Luka trade, what would constitute it being fair? Because most complaints I see can't come up with a fair trade. Which means they're just not allowing the team to trade a player (aa function that is allowed to all teams in the NBA). If that's the case then there is no winning the argument there, in the first place.

Going back to your mock trade above, I'd prefer to send out Kyrie for that package even if it means lesser picks coming back. Luka is more in the timeline of Thompson, Whitemore, Sheppard and Green than Kyrie is. But I like it.

[Mavrelous]

Here let me help you out.

Luka, Kleber, Morris

for

AD, Christie
2027 1st rounder
2031 first rounder
2033 first rounder
2035 first rounder
2037 first rounder

So essentially 5 Laker first rounders. Does this constitute a fair trade to you?

Emotionally attached fans feel this isn't enough. Having emotional attachments in play doesn't make it valid anymore. Which just means you're not complaining about the lack of picks, you're just complaining, period. Doesn't move the conversation forward.

There is no trade because you don't trade a player who is perenial 1st teamm all NBA, led you to the WCF in 22 despite having very flawed roster and led you to the finals in 24, very popular, no off court issues, and no drama around him, loved by the fans, but if you want to ask me what was avaialable out there, here is an attempt:

Amen Thompson
Cam Whitmore
Reed Sheppard
Jalen Green
25, 27, 29 Suns 1st
Mavs 29 1st back

I understand your point man. I'm just driving mine forward because I was forced to agree to a claim of it being the worst trade of all time.

Now objectively speaking, it is the team management's legitimate right to trade a player to another team where they themselves find a better fitting piece (to them). It's not against the law to trade a player. Which drives my point that if they did do a Luka trade, what would constitute it being fair? Because most complaints I see can't come up with a fair trade. Which means they're just not allowing the team to trade a player (aa function that is allowed to all teams in the NBA). If that's the case then there is no winning the argument there, in the first place.

I understand the fans pain, they watched the team (and I personally enjoyed every miute), 6 years trying to build a team around Luka, and just when they felt that they now have a great team that hides his flaws and maginifes his strengths, Nico Harrison ended it abruptly and inexplicibly.
If you want a fair trade that made sense, Houston would have made the most sense, lots of young talent, more than they can handle, immidiate fit, and lots of future picks with huge upside.
I believe Houston would've made a godfather offer for Luka, AD is a great player, he's not on the level of Luka, and he's exiting his prime while being injury prone, it was a terrible deal.

[arkuo]

There is no trade because you don't trade a player who is perenial 1st teamm all NBA, led you to the WCF in 22 despite having very flawed roster and led you to the finals in 24, very popular, no off court issues, and no drama around him, loved by the fans, but if you want to ask me what was avaialable out there, here is an attempt:

Amen Thompson
Cam Whitmore
Reed Sheppard
Jalen Green
25, 27, 29 Suns 1st
Mavs 29 1st back

I understand your point man. I'm just driving mine forward because I was forced to agree to a claim of it being the worst trade of all time.

Now objectively speaking, it is the team management's legitimate right to trade a player to another team where they themselves find a better fitting piece (to them). It's not against the law to trade a player. Which drives my point that if they did do a Luka trade, what would constitute it being fair? Because most complaints I see can't come up with a fair trade. Which means they're just not allowing the team to trade a player (aa function that is allowed to all teams in the NBA). If that's the case then there is no winning the argument there, in the first place.

I understand the fans pain, they watched the team (and I personally enjoyed every miute), 6 years trying to build a team around Luka, and just when they felt that they now have a great team that hides his flaws and maginifes his strengths, Nico Harrison ended it abruptly and inexplicibly.
If you want a fair trade that made sense, Houston would have made the most sense, lots of young talent, more than they can handle, immidiate fit, and lots of future picks with huge upside.

I believe Houston would've made a godfather offer for Luka, AD is a great player, he's not on the level of Luka, and he's exiting his prime while being injury prone, it was a terrible deal.

I agree it was a bad deal. Been on this board 21 years now, I understand the grief of some fans. But people move forward in different paces so there's that.

I read somewhere that Nico came from West Point. So he's not dumb. He's results oriented. What he is is he's tone deaf. Which most people with their background are. They just need results and they need it fast. They're all about hitting KPIs.

This is the equivalent of a Dave Chekkets hypothetically trading away Patrick Ewing to get a shot at competing against Jordan and the Bulls. NYC would riot back then.

[Bob8]

Here let me help you out.

Luka, Kleber, Morris

for

AD, Christie
2027 1st rounder
2031 first rounder
2033 first rounder
2035 first rounder
2037 first rounder

So essentially 5 Laker first rounders. Does this constitute a fair trade to you?

Emotionally attached fans feel this isn't enough. Having emotional attachments in play doesn't make it valid anymore. Which just means you're not complaining about the lack of picks, you're just complaining, period. Doesn't move the conversation forward.

There is no trade because you don't trade a player who is perenial 1st teamm all NBA, led you to the WCF in 22 despite having very flawed roster and led you to the finals in 24, very popular, no off court issues, and no drama around him, loved by the fans, but if you want to ask me what was avaialable out there, here is an attempt:

Amen Thompson
Cam Whitmore
Reed Sheppard
Jalen Green
25, 27, 29 Suns 1st
Mavs 29 1st back


Elite talent is very rare currency in the NBA, pompous execs full of themselves are dime a dozen..

Trade like this almost never happens, because you need pompous execs full of themselves, who totally misjudge reactions. Can happen. And totally clueless owners, who don't understand basketball and basketball business. Both conditions simultaneously very rarely happen.

If you forget for the minute about pure basketball view and look at business side only. Luka is huge international star, not only in small Slovenia but in the entire Europe and especially in huge Asian markets too. Dallas will lose far more money than that supermax they didn't want to pay.

[Mavrelous]

I agree it was a bad deal. Been on this board 21 years now, I understand the grief of some fans. But people move forward in different paces so there's that.

I read somewhere that Nico came from West Point. So he's not dumb. He's results oriented. What he is is he's tone deaf. Which most people with their background are. They just need results and they need it fast. They're all about hitting KPIs.

I agree with your assessment, which is why I'm very worried, KPI is good for sales, manufacturing and even engineering R&D, it is not fit for tiny microcosm of elite talent, governed by strict cap rules, and highly selective talent distribution mechanism.
Even if Nico hits his KPI and wins a title, what he'll leave behind in 2027 will likely be an aging expensive roster, with no draft control.

[arkuo]

I agree it was a bad deal. Been on this board 21 years now, I understand the grief of some fans. But people move forward in different paces so there's that.

I read somewhere that Nico came from West Point. So he's not dumb. He's results oriented. What he is is he's tone deaf. Which most people with their background are. They just need results and they need it fast. They're all about hitting KPIs.

I agree with your assessment, which is why I'm very worried, KPI is good for sales, manufacturing and even engineering R&D, it is not fit for tiny microcosm of elite talent, governed by strict cap rules, and highly selective talent distribution mechanism.
Even if Nico hits his KPI and wins a title, what he'll leave behind in 2027 will likely be an aging expensive roster, with no draft control.

This is true. Guys like Nico, they just need the shortest way possible to achieve the same result. Then they jump to the next company who can offer a bigger payday. It's a different thing in sports entertainment. That is a double edged sword. A very dangerous game that Nico is playing. The type that can make or break careers.

Just to give perspective, there are country managers for Nike who get fired for low sales. Even if these guys have been in the company for 2-3 decades. This is the background that Nico came from. It's all about KPIs.

[41Dirk41]

What do you mean revisionism? The topic of "worst trade of all time" varies from person to person. How can you have billions of people in the world agree to just one answer?

I didn't say it wasn't a horrible trade. I actually agree with you. Luka for AD, Max and 1st is a bad trade. Dirk for Traylor was also a bad trade. Both can be true. Which one finds it worst is just subjective from person to person. What's wrong with that? If people don't agree with it then how is it wrong? It's just a different opinion.

Yes, it's subjective but it's not a 50/50 for sure and not even a 70/30... Just a few of people think that Luka trade is not the worst in sport history.

A few people also think that the earth is flat or Covid was a fake. So...

So in the topic of fairness, what would constitute a fair 50/50 (as you would put it) Luka trade for you then?

List it down so we can see what a fair trade would look like for it not to be branded as the worst of all time.

Most Luka stans I ask this question to can't list it down. That is because they are emotionally attached to the player. Which proves the topic of fairness being subjective from person to person. Which also means no amount of assets would be able to satisfy said trade to be fair in their eyes.

Lakers can trade 15 first round picks, 37 second rounders, Rob Pelinka's leather jacket, Jeanie Buss' first born child, Anne Hathaway's virginity, AD, Max Christie and it would still be the "worst trade of all time" for some. Give us an example of how it would be a fair trade then. Please list it down below.

I loved Luka and i hoped he would become our new Dirk (1 ring won with our boy is like 10 Fakers rings full of mercenaries ) but i'm not sold on Luka because he is Luka Doncic... but i can understand some of those kind of fans.

I'm a Mavs fan first and i want to win.
With Luka or without him it's not so fundamental.
Probably Luka Doncic provides more chances than anyone else right now and maybe even for the next 5 years so you can't win a trade if he is involved.
That's sure and that's the point.

But from lose a trade to trade him for AD, Christie and a pick there the ocean in the middle.

First no teams will trade to you their 23/24 yo superstar because you can't trade those kind of guys just as Dallas shouldn't have done it.

But let's say absurdly that we have to trade Doncic for X reasons (bullshits obviously) so you have 2 paths... Rebuilding or stay in win mode.

They chose the second path (i still think it's a buddies gift but i want to respond to your question) and AD as focal point. Ok.

AD, Reaves , Christie, Knecht and 3 FRPs.

It's still a L but at least not the worst trade in history both sportingly and economically for a franchise.

I hope you understand my post, my english is not so good and i am from smartphone. I'm sorry.

[arkuo]

Yes, it's subjective but it's not a 50/50 for sure and not even a 70/30... Just a few of people think that Luka trade is not the worst in sport history.

A few people also think that the earth is flat or Covid was a fake. So...

So in the topic of fairness, what would constitute a fair 50/50 (as you would put it) Luka trade for you then?

List it down so we can see what a fair trade would look like for it not to be branded as the worst of all time.

Most Luka stans I ask this question to can't list it down. That is because they are emotionally attached to the player. Which proves the topic of fairness being subjective from person to person. Which also means no amount of assets would be able to satisfy said trade to be fair in their eyes.

Lakers can trade 15 first round picks, 37 second rounders, Rob Pelinka's leather jacket, Jeanie Buss' first born child, Anne Hathaway's virginity, AD, Max Christie and it would still be the "worst trade of all time" for some. Give us an example of how it would be a fair trade then. Please list it down below.

I loved Luka and i hoped he would become our new Dirk (1 ring won with our boy is like 10 Fakers rings full of mercenaries ) but i'm not sold on Luka because he is Luka Doncic... but i can understand some of those kind of fans.

I'm a Mavs fan first and i want to win.
With Luka or without him it's not so fundamental.
Probably Luka Doncic provides more chances than anyone else right now and maybe even for the next 5 years so you can't win a trade if he is involved.
That's sure and that's the point.

But from lose a trade to trade him for AD, Christie and a pick there the ocean in the middle.

First no teams will trade to you their 23/24 yo superstar because you can't trade those kind of guys just as Dallas shouldn't have done it.

But let's say absurdly that we have to trade Doncic for X reasons (bullshits obviously) so you have 2 paths... Rebuilding or stay in win mode.

They chose the second path (i still think it's a buddies gift but i want to respond to your question) and AD as focal point. Ok.

AD, Reaves , Christie, Knecht and 3 FRPs.

It's still a L but at least not the worst trade in history both sportingly and economically for a franchise.

I hope you understand my post, my english is not so good and i am from smartphone. I'm sorry.

I understand your point man. Don't worry about it. Let me help you move forward. Just think that there were 3 FRPs included and those start in 2031, 2033 and 2035. So essentially we don't have to think about it for 6 more years. In 2031, we'll both be pissed but that's 6 years from now, assume Nico will be gone then so that part softens the blow. Cheers, mate.

That's one way of looking at it so you are able to set aside the anger and grief.