Has Giddey fixed his shooting problem?

[ChettheJet]

If you want to judge a genuine improvement based on 3 games, you must not like being taken seriously in your basketball judgement. Call me after 10 games and see what his shooting % is then we'll see if it's a good run or a trend or he looks like an improved shooter. Also, see if after these 3 games other teams start paying more attention to Giddey and maybe he doesn't get as many open shots and defenses are alert to him driving to the basket and cut him off.

[rosenthall]

I agree that you're a good shooter when teams decide they need to guard you to prevent you from doing it.

Ironically, I think shot volume is a better indicator than shot accuracy in this regard. It's not your averages, but what you'd be able to do if a team didn't pay attention to you that dictates how much defensive coverage you get.

Or to put it another way, teams care more about whether you're a dangerous shooter than if you're an accurate shooter.

Giddey isn't particularly accurate or dangerous, especially for someone who projects to have the ball in his hands so much.

[DuckIII]

If you want to judge a genuine improvement based on 3 games, you must not like being taken seriously in your basketball judgement. Call me after 10 games and see what his shooting % is then we'll see if it's a good run or a trend or he looks like an improved shooter. Also, see if after these 3 games other teams start paying more attention to Giddey and maybe he doesn't get as many open shots and defenses are alert to him driving to the basket and cut him off.

This entire thread is based on his season long statistics, not the last 3 games. He’s shooting .370 on 5 attempts per 36 for the season.

[League Circles]

If you want to judge a genuine improvement based on 3 games, you must not like being taken seriously in your basketball judgement. Call me after 10 games and see what his shooting % is then we'll see if it's a good run or a trend or he looks like an improved shooter. Also, see if after these 3 games other teams start paying more attention to Giddey and maybe he doesn't get as many open shots and defenses are alert to him driving to the basket and cut him off.

This entire thread is based on his season long statistics, not the last 3 games. He’s shooting .370 on 5 attempts per 36 for the season.

Not a big deal but worth noting that his volume /100 is lower than everyone we've played this year except Dalen Terry. He's 164th in the league (among qualifiers!) in 3PA/100, so he is still rather low volume for his role.

[Jello Biafra]

I like him better as a lead ball handler on this team than anyone else. That bounce pass assist to Buzelis last night was next level. Despite the hate he gets, he fills up the stat sheet more than any other player on the team not named Vuc. He's got 18 double doubles and 2 triple doubles this year as the teams 4th or 5th option. And he's only 22. But you all think he's out of the league bad.

[Jcool0]

If you want to judge a genuine improvement based on 3 games, you must not like being taken seriously in your basketball judgement. Call me after 10 games and see what his shooting % is then we'll see if it's a good run or a trend or he looks like an improved shooter. Also, see if after these 3 games other teams start paying more attention to Giddey and maybe he doesn't get as many open shots and defenses are alert to him driving to the basket and cut him off.

This entire thread is based on his season long statistics, not the last 3 games. He’s shooting .370 on 5 attempts per 36 for the season.

Not a big deal but worth noting that his volume /100 is lower than everyone we've played this year except Dalen Terry. He's 164th in the league (among qualifiers!) in 3PA/100, so he is still rather low volume for his role.

Vuc: 4.6 3PA

Williams: 4.5 3PA

Ayo: 4.2 3PA

Giddey: 3.9 3PA

That might have something to do with his per 100 numbers. And also they are so close to almost be meaningless. Seems like your doing per 100 as some kind of gotcha thing. Its one stat not THE stat. Also his role isn't to take 3s so not sure what you are talking about.

[League Circles]

This entire thread is based on his season long statistics, not the last 3 games. He’s shooting .370 on 5 attempts per 36 for the season.

Not a big deal but worth noting that his volume /100 is lower than everyone we've played this year except Dalen Terry. He's 164th in the league (among qualifiers!) in 3PA/100, so he is still rather low volume for his role.

Vuc: 4.6 3PA

Williams: 4.5 3PA

Ayo: 4.2 3PA

Giddey: 3.9 3PA

That might have something to do with his per 100 numbers. And also they are so close to almost be meaningless. Seems like your doing per 100 as some kind of gotcha thing. Its one stat not THE stat. Also his role isn't to take 3s so not sure what you are talking about.

All I'm saying is that for anyone who thinks he has moderate to good volume, he doesn't, and it's a lot easier to see that (for all players, for all stats) this year by looking at per 100 stats, because they essentially correct for our super high (ineffective) pace relative to other teams. Again, 164th in the league among qualifiers. So an average team has 5-6 guys who are shooting threes more frequently than Giddey. Btw, I'm good with that. If anything I'd like to see him shoot even fewer threes and be more aggressive with the dribble drive as we've seen a bit more lately.

It's just super easy to look at a couple of raw numbers and mistakenly conclude that he's a respectable perimeter shooter. He's not. At least not yet. Teams give him a ton of space and he still hits below average volume and about average accuracy.

[2weekswithpay]

No. Giddey hasn't shot enough 3s to determine if he's improved his shooting since coming to the Bulls. 211 attempts is not a large enough sample size. Remember Ayo shot 40% from 3 last season on 295 attempts only to regress to 33% this season.

Old but relevant article.

[Jcool0]

No. Giddey hasn't shot enough 3s to determine if he's improved his shooting since coming to the Bulls. 211 attempts is not a large enough sample size. Remember Ayo shot 40% from 3 last season on 295 attempts only to regress to 33% this season.

Old but relevant article.

From 12/5 to 2/4 (13 games) Ayo was hitting 43% from 3. Since then 19% from 3 but we also know he has a shoulder issue.

[jump]

The people who don’t like Giddy are going to find ways to back up their feelings. It’s pointless to argue. The eye test says he’s been playing really good ball lately and has been improving his game all season. But of course that can’t possibly be a good thing, according to too many people around here.

[sco]

So for those who don't think Giddey has fixed his shooting problems:

A) Is there some number of shots or period of time shooting at this level that you would say, "yes he has"?

B) If not, does he need to fix his release speed and form to have you say "yes he has"?

C) You feel that others just don't see Giddey for the bad shooter and defender that he is and you will always feel this way!

[drosestruts]

Giddey has improved his shooting every season, he's on track to do so again this year.

I don't think we'll ever see a huge jump/complete change in shooting form like Lonzo Ball

I can see Giddey continuing to improve his shot, mainly because that's what we've seen so far.

It's a good first step. Not sure I ever see him as someone hitting step-backs or creating his own 3-point shots.

[dougthonus]

Mmmm. Vuc was a 40% 3 point shooter for 3 years, then 35% for 1 year, then 30% last year, then 45% for the first 3 months of this season, and now 30% again since the New Year.

If I can't interpret that, which I can't, I'm not going to be able to for Giddey either.

Vuc has shot over 40% one year in his career, certainly not 3 years in a row.

[dougthonus]

I don't think he is fixed a shooting problem. Because the problem with his shot is that he doesn't draw enough attention. I always think that's more important to look at than pure percentages and volume.

I think this is generally true.

Generally speaking guys with poor shooting form are simply not going to draw attention into a three-point line. Also in general three-point shots are actually not very efficient. You really have to be right up near 40% to be taking a shot that is above league average in terms of overall shooting efficiency. So since for most guys it's not an above average efficiency shot, it's critical that it causes better spacing through "gravity". So that is the critical thing, and Giddey doesn't have it yet.

38.2% gets you to a league average efficiency shot. I think one thing about this is that if you factor out all of the transition offense, that the efficiency dips a lot. I don't know of a way to do the exact math, but I would guess that ~34-35% is equivalent to a half court shot in average efficiency.

To your first point, you probably need to hit 40% plus on wide open shots to penalize the other team enough for leaving you wide open that they stop leaving you wide open, because they will stop so many more higher percentages shots by playing 5 on 4.

[dougthonus]

His form is so bad that I am curious what they do because he pops his elbow on his shots which cant be comfortable. His shot is going in but his form needs rebuilt. So yes and no

You do occasionally see guys with lousy form that are threats, like Haliburton or JJJ.

[dougthonus]

I think he is showing he the potential to be a really good consistent 3 point shooter if he puts in the work. Right now he looks confident and that step back was something I didn’t think he had in bag or ever would have.

Maybe he could, but you can say that about the vast majority of perimeter players in the league.

We have proof of it in Lonzo Ball. His shot was way worse than Giddey’s. And Giddey is shooting a career high percentage on his highest volume.

FWIW, Lonzo's shot was not worse than Giddey's at the same age, and by year 3 he was a stable shooter.

[dougthonus]

If you want to judge a genuine improvement based on 3 games, you must not like being taken seriously in your basketball judgement. Call me after 10 games and see what his shooting % is then we'll see if it's a good run or a trend or he looks like an improved shooter. Also, see if after these 3 games other teams start paying more attention to Giddey and maybe he doesn't get as many open shots and defenses are alert to him driving to the basket and cut him off.

Who is taking improvement after 3 games? I posted his numbers on the full season, where he has over 200 attempts and is 2nd on the team in percentage and 3rd in attempts. If that sample isn't good enough then the sample on literally everyone on the team outside of Vuc and Coby is also not meaningful as everyone else has even fewer attempts than Giddey.

[Red8911]

Idk if we can label Giddey a shooter but it seems his overall game on both ends has improved not just his shot. Let’s not forget that now with Zach gone he’s now one of the primary ball handlers and has a lot more responsibility on the offensive end to score.

Thats one reason he’s looking better, Bulls don’t have many options anymore. Regarding his 3 pt shooting, he’s looking more confident and he’s hitting them. How long will that last who knows, let’s see if he can do this for the rest of the season consistently.

[2weekswithpay]

So for those who don't think Giddey has fixed his shooting problems:

A) Is there some number of shots or period of time shooting at this level that you would say, "yes he has"?

B) If not, does he need to fix his release speed and form to have you say "yes he has"?

C) You feel that others just don't see Giddey for the bad shooter and defender that he is and you will always feel this way!

A least a two season sample size of improved shooting or 500+ 3PAs. I not buying Giddey's improved shooting right now for the same reason I don't buy Vuc's improved shooting this season.

I would still like a form change and improved release speed. Without a form change, I don't think Giddey will ever be a pull up shooting threat. The release speed gives defenses too much leeway when helping off of him.

[WindyCityBorn]

Idk if we can label Giddey a shooter but it seems his overall game on both ends has improved not just his shot. Let’s not forget that now with Zach gone he’s now one of the primary ball handlers and has a lot more responsibility on the offensive end to score.

Thats one reason he’s looking better, Bulls don’t have many options anymore. Regarding his 3 pt shooting, he’s looking more confident and he’s hitting them. How long will that last who knows, let’s see if he can do this for the rest of the season consistently.

He doesn’t need a great shooter. He needs to not be a liability that defenses can ignore off ball. He is doing good job of that lately.