Lamelo Ball by the numbers

[Ice Man]

LaMelo is the poster child for how to be overrated. Shoot a lot, pass a lot, have huge usage, be very flashy, have some big games, miss a lot of shots, make a lot of mistakes, don't play much defense. Oh, and have a famous name so that you are well known already when you enter the league.

As a player, he's the direct opposite of Jimmy Butler, and that's not a compliment. (It might be if I were talking about off-court stuff, though.)

He does have the tools and is young enough to get better, so it's not as if I am writing him off. But as a franchise player, he's a helluva gamble.

[tamaraw08]

I usually look at a star player on a bad team and compare their efficiency to the rest of the team to see if they are better off playing around the central piece.

LaMelo's got a pretty bad TS% at 54.0%, but the team as a whole is at 53.5%. On the whole his usage isn't taking away from his team.

2nd in Usage Rate
339th in True Shooting Percentage

336th in Net Rating
456th in Defensive Rating

1st in 3pt FGA/gm (11.7/gm)
143rd in 3pt FG% (33.6%)

3rd worst AST/TO of all starting PG's (just ahead of Ja Morant and Coby White)


But you saw the other horrible stats like assist to turnover and DRTG too right?
Also how his team is paying him so much money which begs the question, is Charlotte better off using cheaper more efficient players like SPJ, Tyus Jones then using their precious dollars on better SG's?

[TheGOATWill]

I watched to Rockets for the first time this season the other night and saw 22 year old, moonlighting at the point, Amen Thompson play maybe the cleanest game of any player I've seen this season. Against a real team at nearly full strength. I don't mean this as a pure indictment of James Barrego, Steve Clifford or the current guy but there's something to be said about coaching and stability. Lamelo ultimately owns his development, but I can't shake the feeling that 20-ish teams would do better by this kid given his size and tools.

[bfchs123]

I think one day he'll be an impact player on a good team (not necessarily the #1) but I don't see it happening anytime soon. He's young, but he needs to mature and understand how to win. That structure just isn't there in Charlotte. They badly need that CP3-type veteran acquisition to give this team some guidance. Too much talent on that team to be 14-42

Maybe one day he can be like Zach Randolph and do a 180 in a new situation.

[tsherkin]

The scoring is rough but it's sort of a Philly Iverson scenario. He, Miller and Bridges are all around 3.5% below league average TS and 20+ ppg, so it isnt like there arent other guys shooting, they just also arent scoring well.

The stats are obviously correct, but the conclusion here is not. Philly Iverson was intentionally surrounded by a bunch of non-creating, mostly non-shooting tough defenders. It was intentional to have AI shoulder a heavy load.

Well, it was intentional in the sense that he'd been struggling to coexist with other scorers (though not of terribly high quality). And the Philly front office didn't prove any good at acquiring offensive talent, but was capable of acquiring defensive talent. Everyone knew that Philly needed more offensive talent. Pat Croce knew, he said as much, tried this and that, they just didn't get it done. Kind of like the shmucks in Cleveland during Lebron's first run there.

They may not be any better at it right now than Ball, but Miller is a shooter. Bridges is a scorer. Mark Williams is a finisher.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to imply. They aren't good at it. They aren't better at it than Ball even on lower usage, so what's the incentive to use them? And that aside, he IS moving the ball. 7 apg off of 22 FGA/g is pretty good. He's 6th in the league in Box Creation, 9th in Passer Rating. Among guys with 1000+ MP and 8+ Passer Rating, he's 7th in creation-adjusted TOV% (there are 15 such players). Most of his turnovers are coming from non-pass situations. So again and again, the playmaking comes up looking very good.

And he's shooting at a level which we have seen from lots and lots of players, core stars and stuff. He isn't doing very well with it, but no one else on the squad is really looking like they're super worthwhile alternates at the moment. So it mostly seems quite explicable, his approach. They aren't good on O, they're terrible, but health is masking at least some of that, and lack of talent is doing the rest.

[levon]

The Kyle Kuzma of Luka Doncic's

[tmorgan]

They may not be any better at it right now than Ball, but Miller is a shooter. Bridges is a scorer. Mark Williams is a finisher.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to imply. They aren't good at it. They aren't better at it than Ball even on lower usage, so what's the incentive to use them? And that aside, he IS moving the ball. 7 apg off of 22 FGA/g is pretty good. He's 6th in the league in Box Creation, 9th in Passer Rating. Among guys with 1000+ MP and 8+ Passer Rating, he's 7th in creation-adjusted TOV% (there are 15 such players). Most of his turnovers are coming from non-pass situations. So again and again, the playmaking comes up looking very good.

And he's shooting at a level which we have seen from lots and lots of players, core stars and stuff. He isn't doing very well with it, but no one else on the squad is really looking like they're super worthwhile alternates at the moment. So it mostly seems quite explicable, his approach. They aren't good on O, they're terrible, but health is masking at least some of that, and lack of talent is doing the rest.

What’s the incentive to use them? Seriously?

He’s the supposed “star” point guard of a fairly young team. You use your teammates to help them develop on the court and make them better. LaMelo is a gifted passer, and he’s not doing it enough. This kind of “teamwork” can turn Brandon Miller into an iso player for no damn reason. The kid Miller is a solid defender and can actually shoot, but when half your twos are unassisted as a small forward you start to smell more like Carmelo Anthony, and nobody wants that for him or the team.

I know LaMelo’s an average shooter overall, can’t really play through contact, and sometimes plays extra flashy for no reason. I also know he has a better pure PG game in him. I want to see that, for the good of his game and for the good of a small market team. Or, to circle back to your statement, he needs to help make his teammates worthwhile. Other than Miles Bridges, that guy can rot in hell. A true embarrassment to my home state.

I’m fine with disagreeing here, by the way. I just think LaMelo should be doing things differently, because he definitely can.

[toooskies]

I usually look at a star player on a bad team and compare their efficiency to the rest of the team to see if they are better off playing around the central piece.

LaMelo's got a pretty bad TS% at 54.0%, but the team as a whole is at 53.5%. On the whole his usage isn't taking away from his team.

2nd in Usage Rate
339th in True Shooting Percentage

336th in Net Rating
456th in Defensive Rating

1st in 3pt FGA/gm (11.7/gm)
143rd in 3pt FG% (33.6%)

3rd worst AST/TO of all starting PG's (just ahead of Ja Morant and Coby White)


But you saw the other horrible stats like assist to turnover and DRTG too right?
Also how his team is paying him so much money which begs the question, is Charlotte better off using cheaper more efficient players like SPJ, Tyus Jones then using their precious dollars on better SG's?

Congratulations, you've cherry-picked some stats that reflect poorly on LaMelo. LaMelo might have a bad Net Rating but he has a +4.0 on-off-- Net Rating rank just means he's on a bad team. Maybe because he's one of the top offensive players in the league by EPM (11th) and LEBRON (14th). See, I can cherry pick positive stuff too.

I generally don't expect tanking teams to play defense much at all. Put LaMelo in a competitive context and maybe starts playing better D. Maybe he doesn't. But defensive stats inherently collect not only a player's defensive ability but also the ability of his teammates to cover for it. Given he's playing with a bunch of young guys and defensive sieves, he gets none of the cover that players on good defensive teams get.

LaMelo's fine, he's just wasting time on a bad team.

[Handlez]

So overrated by casuals.

Seems like he misses games constantly, too.

Maybe they want Flagg, but I want him nowhere near Melo.

[DaGawd]

So overrated by casuals.

Seems like he misses games constantly, too.

Maybe they want Flagg, but I want him nowhere near Melo.

that might actually be what they need, lamelo is out of position being the franchise guy, he needs a legit alpha out there to make him more of a secondary piece

[jordanwilliams6]

I don’t know how anyone can watch him and think he’s an impact player.

I’m reasonably convinced he’ll never play on a winning team in his career (if he’s the number 1 or 2 option).

[tmorgan]

So overrated by casuals.

Seems like he misses games constantly, too.

Maybe they want Flagg, but I want him nowhere near Melo.

that might actually be what they need, lamelo is out of position being the franchise guy, he needs a legit alpha out there to make him more of a secondary piece

I’m pretty sure I can count on one hand the number of rookies in recent years that have had the gravitas to change the culture on their team during their first season. Hey, maybe Cooper’s one of those guys, though.

[tsherkin]

What’s the incentive to use them? Seriously?

He’s the supposed “star” point guard of a fairly young team. You use your teammates to help them develop on the court and make them better. LaMelo is a gifted passer, and he’s not doing it enough.

So right away, that isn't really correct.

He's taking 22 shots per game, which is a fairly normal load for a star player. It's a little more than it seems because he's doing it in more limited minutes, but like I said, he's actually quite prolific at shot creation for his teammates. And it's worth mentioning that Miller is taking 18 FGA/g and Bridges 17, so it's not like they aren't seeing the ball. So it makes your remark a tiny bit of hyperbole, no offense.

It's possible there is some tweaking to be done; I don't want to disagree entirely. He isn't a perfect player. It's the way you're describing him, as if he's the core problem with the team. He's one of the better playmakers in the league, isn't really overshooting too badly and the team needs him to do it. Beyond that, the guys around him ARE getting a lot of looks and Ball is one of the higher producers in the league in terms of Box Creation, so there's got to be SOME level of mitigation.

I understand that the team is struggling quite badly, so there's always room for improvement, but the Hornets are also on a 20-win pace overall and a 30-win pace with him starting. He's making a difference in their success, they just don't have the talent or the health right now.

[tsherkin]

So overrated by casuals.

Seems like he misses games constantly, too.

Maybe they want Flagg, but I want him nowhere near Melo.

that might actually be what they need, lamelo is out of position being the franchise guy, he needs a legit alpha out there to make him more of a secondary piece

And here it is. This circles back to tmorgan's point, as well.

Ball is miscast as a volume scorer, no doubt. The problem is that there aren't superior options on the team. They need an infusion of talent to facilitate that role change.

[Frank Dux]

He kinda ended up in the worst situation. He’s a savant, an unbelievable natural talent with great size. But ever since his brothers left Chino Hills he’s been enabled to chuck and play a bad brand of basketball at every stop. He needs discipline, good coaching and guidance. There’s none of that in Charlotte. No good vets, no team culture, it’s all the LaMelo show.

The one thing that really strikes me about his game is how much time and energy he spends dribbling thru his legs and behind his back only to launch up a step back three. Just seems like a wildly inefficient use of energy. He needs to do a much better job using his skill set to get downhill, get to the rim or find better shots.

[hauntedcomputer]

Five years of everybody blaming the guys around him instead of this guy. It's not like he's making anybody better.

[tsherkin]

The one thing that really strikes me about his game is how much time and energy he spends dribbling thru his legs and behind his back only to launch up a step back three. Just seems like a wildly inefficient use of energy. He needs to do a much better job using his skill set to get downhill, get to the rim or find better shots.

Fairly reminiscent of a lot of players these days, yeah? It's very, very classic James Harden/Luka Doncic stuff.

[Bank Shot]

He's also got worse ankles than his dad.

[Special_Puppy]

The criticism of LaMelo's scoring is so dumb. He's legit been a top 5 scorer this season even when taking into his account his low true shooting

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[JustBuzzin]

Melo just cooked Luka and the Lakers with scrubs.


Y'all better hope we don't get Cooper Flagg. Charlotte is a a Flagg away from being the next OKC.