Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

[jnrjr79]

I think before I was not convinced he was an over-MLE guy, but if he keeps up anything like this recent stretch, then he absolutely is, but unless Brooklyn is inclined to offer it, it's going to require a S&T. It could be a situation where the Bulls luck out and get him cheaper than market price due to the anticipated lack of cap space teams this offseason or that they get something useful in return if a S&T option appears. I was a little worried early in the season it was going to be an "overpay or let him walk and effectively get nothing from the Caruso trade" scenario, but it would seem a good GM (and here's where I'm worried!) may actually have some decent cards to play with him this offseason.

Agree with all of this.

Especially the part about being scared we won't use any of the leverage we have.

If you “lowball” him because no team that would want him has the cap space he does have option to just take qualifying offer. Then you’re in the same situation again next season except you have no control over him. Best scenario is give him a fair contract now. Not go as cheap as possible.

I guess it all depends what you mean by "lowball." I can see a scenario where the Bulls go to something like $17 million to be a meaningful bump over the MLE, but less than Giddey might otherwise get if there were a lot of cap space around the league.

If he wants to turn down 4 years, $68 million and risk health and all that to play on the QO, I can live with it.

[dougthonus]

If you “lowball” him because no team that would want him has the cap space he does have option to just take qualifying offer. Then you’re in the same situation again next season except you have no control over him. Best scenario is give him a fair contract now. Not go as cheap as possible.

Sure, but fair has a pretty wide range, and we should be on the lower end of it when he has zero leverage. We'd probably have Pat Williams on a 3/40M dollar deal if we played hardball and still been within "fair".

[dougthonus]

This right here. His QO is over 11 mill, so if the Bulls lowball, he's smarter to take the 11 mill for one year and bet on a huge contract in 2026 when a lot of teams will have money.

Here's a recent interview with Giddey. He talks a little about his contract and defense.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2025/02/25/bulls-guard-josh-giddey-worth-open-market-lets-ask-him

It's "smarter" only if it works out. Dennis Shroder thought the Lakers weren't being fair with an 80M offer and got the vet min the next day. It's hard to guess what will happen based on how he performs between now and a year from now. If he shows big progress in a couple areas, he could be a max guy. If he regresses, he could be a MLE guy.

If he makes moderate improvement, somewhere in between.

Obviously, he's a guy that isn't super easy to fit into a lot of rosters which will limit the market, and he has to weigh all of the risks. Ie, if Giddey tears an ACL, he's probably not getting paid at all the following year. It comes down to looking at how much more he can make, what he risks, and how he evaluates that.

There are certainly a long list of both winners and losers in those types of decisions, the guys like Giddey are in the riskiest boats for those.

[HomoSapien]

what kind of team do you built featuring a guy like Giddey? Obviously it should start with surrounding him with strong defenders

Athletes, lanky defenders, and shooters.

On offense, you want people who can run with him on a fast-break, spread the floor in the half-court, cut to the basket, and are lob threats.

On defense, you want long players who can help shrink the floor and use their length to make up for his foot speed.


Can you build a good team around him? Not sure. But I'm starting to ask that question for the first time.

Things I really like about Giddey is his passing, court vision, and most underrated part of his game is rebounding. He's actually a pretty tough kid, especially if you compare to charmin' Patrick Williams. It's really this part of his game that makes me think about this long-term possibility. Toughness is part of Chicago Bulls DNA that I love. It's the Nocionis, the Capn' Kirks, the Taj Gibsons, the Joakim Noahs toughness. I know Giddey is not that type of hard hat lunch pail dirty work type of guy, but I think Giddey's toughness has really been underrated by many.

But I understand it will all comes down to how much do we have to pay him.

To your point, I'm actually very impressed with his ability to rebound in traffic. He's not an opportunistic rebounder, he is out there battling for tough boards.

[WindyCityBorn]

This right here. His QO is over 11 mill, so if the Bulls lowball, he's smarter to take the 11 mill for one year and bet on a huge contract in 2026 when a lot of teams will have money.

Here's a recent interview with Giddey. He talks a little about his contract and defense.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2025/02/25/bulls-guard-josh-giddey-worth-open-market-lets-ask-him

It's "smarter" only if it works out. Dennis Shroder thought the Lakers weren't being fair with an 80M offer and got the vet min the next day. It's hard to guess what will happen based on how he performs between now and a year from now. If he shows big progress in a couple areas, he could be a max guy. If he regresses, he could be a MLE guy.

If he makes moderate improvement, somewhere in between.

Obviously, he's a guy that isn't super easy to fit into a lot of rosters which will limit the market, and he has to weigh all of the risks. Ie, if Giddey tears an ACL, he's probably not getting paid at all the following year. It comes down to looking at how much more he can make, what he risks, and how he evaluates that.

There are certainly a long list of both winners and losers in those types of decisions, the guys like Giddey are in the riskiest boats for those.

I think the only risk is injury. Which to be fair is big one that can happen at any time. Barring injury I think he will easily outproduce this season. We know what his baseline is when he gets to run the offense.

[PJSteven22]

Two things:
Coby is generally considered a value contract. That's what it's called everywhere. His actual market value in a free agency right now is probably somewhere between $18 mill and $25 mill.

Coby's contract year, year 4, he put up 9.7pts, 2.8 assists, 2.9 rebounds. .7 steals in 23 minutes. 37.2% from three
Giddey's contract year: 12.9 pts, 6.4 assists, 7.4 rebounds in 29 minutes. 1.1 steals. 37% from three.

Giddey's having a better contract year than Coby. He's also younger than Coby was in year 4.

The thing about wanting greatness is you have to be willing to pay for greatness. No team's going to have 5 All-Star two-way players starting. Usually teams will have two max players at most. You need three other starters. You're going to have some mediocrity. If all your players are all that good, you won't be able to afford to keep them all anyway. There are maybe 5-6 teams where you would say every starter is above NBA average. Then they have $25-$40 mill players who are very good, but have flaws. $10-$25 mill players that are average starters/role players. You can't afford Curry, Booker, Lebron, KD, Jokic for any sustainable time.

Let's just be honest. Is it really you don't like Giddey at all, and don't want him at any price? Or do you actually think he's a bad NBA player that teams want to pay a lot of money to for some reason?

No you continue to misrepresent my points. He is a player with some good strengths and some debilitating weaknesses. Yes he’s a good playmaker and rebounder but he plays his best when the offense revolves around him. That’s not good. He played his best without Shai in OKC and he’s playing his best his best here since Zach got traded. If he wants to reach his full potential and the Bulls want the best for his franchise he’s has to learn on how to play with great players. What if the Bulls land the 1st or 2nd overall pick? Cooper or Dylan is going to need on ball reps. Does he revert back to what he was last month? It’s a legitimate concern.

You also misrepresent my greatness comment. If your primary ball handler is on the level of Coby or Josh. You’re in trouble as a franchise. Coby doesn’t have the talent or the decision making to be a primary ball handler. The Mountain is steep for Giddey to climb. The only guy that’s a primary ball handler but not the leading scorer on a top 6 team is Haliburton. Hali is not a good athlete like Giddey but Hali is an elite pull up shooter. Also Haliburton is great at taking care of the ball and is a better playmaker than Giddey. I’d doubt he becomes the level of shooter that Haliburton has been. That’s a pretty lofty goal for him to reach. He can be a better driver than Hali.

I I just want the Bulls to do the smart thing for once and let market decide what he’s worth.

Genuinely not trying to misrepresent you. I asked if you don't like Giddey, because some people just won't like some players or player types.

The arguments you're making would make more sense to me if he wasn't pretty clearly playing better defensively and shooting 37% from three. So those debilitating weaknesses as you call them don't really appear to be present. At least not to the extent that they would make him unplayable.

You saying you just want the market to decide his value, I can agree with that 100%. Think maybe our view of $30 mill player is a little different too. I don't need him to be prime Chris Paul or Haliburton to pay him $30 mill. Think Giddey could average a consistent 16pts and 8 rebounds as a starting forward. If he scored a few more, great. But if he's getting 6 or more assists from that forward position, that makes up for 2-4 extra points. He maintains this shooting, or close to it, that's fine for a forward. I think a 16, 8 and 6 forward gets at least $30 mill at 22 if teams have cap space. Few teams have space, so we could end up with a real deal.

Hopefully we're drafting a great scorer. we're hoping Matas will be one. A set-up guy like Giddey is not that easy to find, and he's the right age to grow with them and them to get chemistry. Might be able to throw Coby and Pat in there too as guys Giddey could make better.

It’s actually not that hard to find a guy like that if you actually rebuild properly. Where are you getting that he’s going to 30 million from. It’s literally based off of your opinion and nothing else. With the new CBA, teams are going to be more strict about how they pay players because it’s more difficult to get rid of bad contracts.

He’s a player that doesn’t fit easily on a roster. That also plays a role in who pays him as well. Take Suggs for example he might not grab as many rebounds and he might not be the playmaker that Giddey is but he fits into any lineup on any team that needs a guard. That versatility offers flexibility in roster construction. Which teams actually covet.

[Infinity2152]

No you continue to misrepresent my points. He is a player with some good strengths and some debilitating weaknesses. Yes he’s a good playmaker and rebounder but he plays his best when the offense revolves around him. That’s not good. He played his best without Shai in OKC and he’s playing his best his best here since Zach got traded. If he wants to reach his full potential and the Bulls want the best for his franchise he’s has to learn on how to play with great players. What if the Bulls land the 1st or 2nd overall pick? Cooper or Dylan is going to need on ball reps. Does he revert back to what he was last month? It’s a legitimate concern.

You also misrepresent my greatness comment. If your primary ball handler is on the level of Coby or Josh. You’re in trouble as a franchise. Coby doesn’t have the talent or the decision making to be a primary ball handler. The Mountain is steep for Giddey to climb. The only guy that’s a primary ball handler but not the leading scorer on a top 6 team is Haliburton. Hali is not a good athlete like Giddey but Hali is an elite pull up shooter. Also Haliburton is great at taking care of the ball and is a better playmaker than Giddey. I’d doubt he becomes the level of shooter that Haliburton has been. That’s a pretty lofty goal for him to reach. He can be a better driver than Hali.

I I just want the Bulls to do the smart thing for once and let market decide what he’s worth.

Genuinely not trying to misrepresent you. I asked if you don't like Giddey, because some people just won't like some players or player types.

The arguments you're making would make more sense to me if he wasn't pretty clearly playing better defensively and shooting 37% from three. So those debilitating weaknesses as you call them don't really appear to be present. At least not to the extent that they would make him unplayable.

You saying you just want the market to decide his value, I can agree with that 100%. Think maybe our view of $30 mill player is a little different too. I don't need him to be prime Chris Paul or Haliburton to pay him $30 mill. Think Giddey could average a consistent 16pts and 8 rebounds as a starting forward. If he scored a few more, great. But if he's getting 6 or more assists from that forward position, that makes up for 2-4 extra points. He maintains this shooting, or close to it, that's fine for a forward. I think a 16, 8 and 6 forward gets at least $30 mill at 22 if teams have cap space. Few teams have space, so we could end up with a real deal.

Hopefully we're drafting a great scorer. we're hoping Matas will be one. A set-up guy like Giddey is not that easy to find, and he's the right age to grow with them and them to get chemistry. Might be able to throw Coby and Pat in there too as guys Giddey could make better.

It’s actually not that hard to find a guy like that if you actually rebuild properly. Where are you getting that he’s going to 30 million from. It’s literally based off of your opinion and nothing else. With the new CBA, teams are going to be more strict about how they pay players because it’s more difficult to get rid of bad contracts.

He’s a player that doesn’t fit easily on a roster. That also plays a role in who pays him as well. Take Suggs for example he might not grab as many rebounds and he might not be the playmaker that Giddey is but he fits into any lineup on any team that needs a guard. That versatility offers flexibility in roster construction. Which teams actually covet.

I'm not saying he's going to get $30 mill. I'm placing that as an upper range. If you want to know where the number comes from, it was his earlier reported contract expectations. I didn't just make up the number. I've also said a lot would depend on which teams have enough to sign him and if the Nets make other moves. That would severely limit his leverage.

He's performing better this season than last season, in almost every area. It's reasonable to expect his contract expectations could be the same or higher.

Giddey fits on any team that needs rebounding and playmaking. Like the Bulls. We went years with no playmaker and our PF averaging 4 rebounds. Teams need more than just scoring. rebounds mean more shot opportunities for your team, less for the other team. They have an offensive and defensive impact. Assists means you helped a teammate score a basket, guaranteed. 100% points if you get an assist.

You're saying it's not that hard to find that guy? Name the guys that are putting up Giddey's numbers, are under 25, and we could get without mortgaging the team. Since they're not hard to find, should be lots.

Kid's putting up 20+ points regularly now, with 16 rebound games, plus tons of assists, while getting blocks and steals now. Teams are not going to have to work hard to convince themselves that could be useful.

[Chi town]

Since people think I hate Giddey (I don't, liked the trade to get him and still like it), I will say a couple of underrated things about him:

1. He has been a durable nba player. That's saying a lot these days, especially with this orgs history.
2. He's tough enough to be successful. Not a stereotypical "soft" guy which is common for guys with his skill set (cerebral passers)
3. He actually plays relatively fundamentally sound defense with reasonable aggression/effort. His problem, especially since he's still young, is purely foot speed, which could be pretty well negated by improved strength/conditioning and accepting that he's always going to fit best as a 3/4, not a 1/2.

Th transition to people thinking of him as a forward changes a lot. He's really never played guard. On OKC, he played with three smaller guards who like to ball handle, and he was the second-best rebounder behind the center. I've said before, much easier to add strength than quickness. 6'2 guys in the league will usually burn 6'8 guys. They have to be able to do that to make it in the league. If you look at him as PF instead of PG, he turns from above average passer, average shooter (this season), outstanding rebounder to outstanding passer, great shooter, outstanding rebounder. His per 36 9.1 rebounds, he's still an elite rebounder at PF. And he gets to guard much slower players. Usually with far worse ballhandling.

Giddey at PF is a good play if we have a stud rim protector at C.

Hope AK can get that in next two years.

[PJSteven22]

Genuinely not trying to misrepresent you. I asked if you don't like Giddey, because some people just won't like some players or player types.

The arguments you're making would make more sense to me if he wasn't pretty clearly playing better defensively and shooting 37% from three. So those debilitating weaknesses as you call them don't really appear to be present. At least not to the extent that they would make him unplayable.

You saying you just want the market to decide his value, I can agree with that 100%. Think maybe our view of $30 mill player is a little different too. I don't need him to be prime Chris Paul or Haliburton to pay him $30 mill. Think Giddey could average a consistent 16pts and 8 rebounds as a starting forward. If he scored a few more, great. But if he's getting 6 or more assists from that forward position, that makes up for 2-4 extra points. He maintains this shooting, or close to it, that's fine for a forward. I think a 16, 8 and 6 forward gets at least $30 mill at 22 if teams have cap space. Few teams have space, so we could end up with a real deal.

Hopefully we're drafting a great scorer. we're hoping Matas will be one. A set-up guy like Giddey is not that easy to find, and he's the right age to grow with them and them to get chemistry. Might be able to throw Coby and Pat in there too as guys Giddey could make better.

It’s actually not that hard to find a guy like that if you actually rebuild properly. Where are you getting that he’s going to 30 million from. It’s literally based off of your opinion and nothing else. With the new CBA, teams are going to be more strict about how they pay players because it’s more difficult to get rid of bad contracts.

He’s a player that doesn’t fit easily on a roster. That also plays a role in who pays him as well. Take Suggs for example he might not grab as many rebounds and he might not be the playmaker that Giddey is but he fits into any lineup on any team that needs a guard. That versatility offers flexibility in roster construction. Which teams actually covet.

I'm not saying he's going to get $30 mill. I'm placing that as an upper range. If you want to know where the number comes from, it was his earlier reported contract expectations. I didn't just make up the number. I've also said a lot would depend on which teams have enough to sign him and if the Nets make other moves. That would severely limit his leverage.

He's performing better this season than last season, in almost every area. It's reasonable to expect his contract expectations could be the same or higher.

Giddey fits on any team that needs rebounding and playmaking. Like the Bulls. We went years with no playmaker and our PF averaging 4 rebounds. Teams need more than just scoring. rebounds mean more shot opportunities for your team, less for the other team. They have an offensive and defensive impact. Assists means you helped a teammate score a basket, guaranteed. 100% points if you get an assist.

You're saying it's not that hard to find that guy? Name the guys that are putting up Giddey's numbers, are under 25, and we could get without mortgaging the team. Since they're not hard to find, should be lots.

Kid's putting up 20+ points regularly now, with 16 rebound games, plus tons of assists, while getting blocks and steals now. Teams are not going to have to work hard to convince themselves that could be useful.

Primary ball handlers that are better than Giddey aren’t that hard to find especially if you’re pick high consistently. They might not grab as many rebounds and dish as many assists but they have a better overall impact and/or a higher ceiling than Giddey. I’d take Stephon Castle over Giddey or just about anyone on a 25 under 25 list over Giddey. I’d take Cooper, Dylan, or KJ over Giddey as a primary ball handler. I think you’re concentrating too heavily on rebounding and assists with any other additional context.

I think you’re oversimplifying his fit on other teams. He’s really played well when the offense revolves around him. He doesn’t play well when he’s not the focal point of the offense. This is not a good sign.

While he’s playing well, this is still a relatively small sample size. We have to wait and see how it materializes with more data. It’s easy to put up 20 when you have the ball in your hands with the defense playing attention to you. Let’s see how he reacts when the defense adjusts to him.

[Dan Z]

What conundrum? Made me sick when people acted like it was the biggest robbery in the last 10 years that OKC was getting a bit past his prime, injury-prone and one dimensional Caruso for Josh. If I didn't know any better, podcasters and real GMers would lead you to believe that Bulls just pulled a Nico Harrison when in reality, they took a shot at a young, do-it-all playmaker with upside such as Giddey.

Funny thing is that its really only now that he gets to play more with the ball and get the proper minutes to actually evaluate his game. Why not before?

I agree with you in the sense that I was in favor of this trade.

On the flip side, I'm not in favor of overpaying Josh and would make him find an offer sheet or play hard ball.

In terms of only seeing what he can do now and not before, I think that is the problem. On a team with more options, where he isn't the primary option, he has a lot of problems, and as we see with him as the primary option, he's no where near good enough to be the primary option.

That is in fact the conundrum, but the reality is the conundrum is really only about how much would you pay for Josh. He's clearly an NBA level talent, elite at some things, lousy at some other things, definitely not a max guy, and definitely over an MLE guy, so the question just becomes what is the price you are willing to pay?

Whether this trade works or doesn't work for us will be more based on Josh's next contract than anything else. If we are stupid and are irrationally the top bidder without a threat of another offer (as AK has done a lot of times) then we probably lose this trade because we sign Josh on a contract that isn't valuable to the league. If we negotiate hard and get Josh on a better deal, then the trade probably works out just fine for us.

That's how I feel about Giddey too, but I didn't want them to trade for him because I don't trust AK paying him a good rate.

I'd rather they got a first round pick and took a chance on a rookie. This team isn't in a position where competing is in the near future. It'll take time.

[Dan Z]

It’s actually not that hard to find a guy like that if you actually rebuild properly. Where are you getting that he’s going to 30 million from. It’s literally based off of your opinion and nothing else. With the new CBA, teams are going to be more strict about how they pay players because it’s more difficult to get rid of bad contracts.

He’s a player that doesn’t fit easily on a roster. That also plays a role in who pays him as well. Take Suggs for example he might not grab as many rebounds and he might not be the playmaker that Giddey is but he fits into any lineup on any team that needs a guard. That versatility offers flexibility in roster construction. Which teams actually covet.

I'm not saying he's going to get $30 mill. I'm placing that as an upper range. If you want to know where the number comes from, it was his earlier reported contract expectations. I didn't just make up the number. I've also said a lot would depend on which teams have enough to sign him and if the Nets make other moves. That would severely limit his leverage.

He's performing better this season than last season, in almost every area. It's reasonable to expect his contract expectations could be the same or higher.

Giddey fits on any team that needs rebounding and playmaking. Like the Bulls. We went years with no playmaker and our PF averaging 4 rebounds. Teams need more than just scoring. rebounds mean more shot opportunities for your team, less for the other team. They have an offensive and defensive impact. Assists means you helped a teammate score a basket, guaranteed. 100% points if you get an assist.

You're saying it's not that hard to find that guy? Name the guys that are putting up Giddey's numbers, are under 25, and we could get without mortgaging the team. Since they're not hard to find, should be lots.

Kid's putting up 20+ points regularly now, with 16 rebound games, plus tons of assists, while getting blocks and steals now. Teams are not going to have to work hard to convince themselves that could be useful.

Primary ball handlers that are better than Giddey aren’t that hard to find especially if you’re pick high consistently. They might not grab as many rebounds and dish as many assists but they have a better overall impact and/or a higher ceiling than Giddey. I’d take Stephon Castle over Giddey or just about anyone on a 25 under 25 list over Giddey. I’d take Cooper, Dylan, or KJ over Giddey as a primary ball handler. I think you’re concentrating too heavily on rebounding and assists with any other additional context.

I think you’re oversimplifying his fit on other teams. He’s really played well when the offense revolves around him. He doesn’t play well when he’s not the focal point of the offense. This is not a good sign.

While he’s playing well, this is still a relatively small sample size. We have to wait and see how it materializes with more data. It’s easy to put up 20 when you have the ball in your hands with the defense playing attention to you. Let’s see how he reacts when the defense adjusts to him.

I wonder about his rebounding. It's good, but do you want your point guard getting a bunch of rebounds? Isn't that typically the job of another position?

I don't mean to sound negative about Giddey. He's not a bad player, but he has his flaws and I'm concerned that he'll get a big contract in the off season.

[dougthonus]

I think the only risk is injury. Which to be fair is big one that can happen at any time. Barring injury I think he will easily outproduce this season. We know what his baseline is when he gets to run the offense.

I mean that's impossible to say without knowing what the offer is, but some obvious risks are:

1: He outproduces, but no one cares about his raw production because he regresses in shooting and doesn't make meaningful strides on defense, and still looks like a guy that is really hard to fit into a winning team, and thus drastically limits his market.

2: A lot of the cap room set to materialize doesn't actually materialize due to extensions teams sign this year.

3: There is a lot of cap room but also a lot of FAs, and by the time everyone signs the guys they want, there simply isn't a lot of cap room left, and Giddey isn't top of anyone's list.

Whether the risk/rewards proposition is good/bad will depend a lot on:
1: How well he finishes the season
2: Feedback his agent will get around the league when searching for an FA deal
3: The Bulls offer

[bullskokie]

I love Magic Giddey! He is still young, has the skill set and the IQ. He is already better than Coby and Pat at this point so I would say $115M 5 years with player option at 4th year. Then we package Coby and Vuc…

[Infinity2152]

It’s actually not that hard to find a guy like that if you actually rebuild properly. Where are you getting that he’s going to 30 million from. It’s literally based off of your opinion and nothing else. With the new CBA, teams are going to be more strict about how they pay players because it’s more difficult to get rid of bad contracts.

He’s a player that doesn’t fit easily on a roster. That also plays a role in who pays him as well. Take Suggs for example he might not grab as many rebounds and he might not be the playmaker that Giddey is but he fits into any lineup on any team that needs a guard. That versatility offers flexibility in roster construction. Which teams actually covet.

I'm not saying he's going to get $30 mill. I'm placing that as an upper range. If you want to know where the number comes from, it was his earlier reported contract expectations. I didn't just make up the number. I've also said a lot would depend on which teams have enough to sign him and if the Nets make other moves. That would severely limit his leverage.

He's performing better this season than last season, in almost every area. It's reasonable to expect his contract expectations could be the same or higher.

Giddey fits on any team that needs rebounding and playmaking. Like the Bulls. We went years with no playmaker and our PF averaging 4 rebounds. Teams need more than just scoring. rebounds mean more shot opportunities for your team, less for the other team. They have an offensive and defensive impact. Assists means you helped a teammate score a basket, guaranteed. 100% points if you get an assist.

You're saying it's not that hard to find that guy? Name the guys that are putting up Giddey's numbers, are under 25, and we could get without mortgaging the team. Since they're not hard to find, should be lots.

Kid's putting up 20+ points regularly now, with 16 rebound games, plus tons of assists, while getting blocks and steals now. Teams are not going to have to work hard to convince themselves that could be useful.

Primary ball handlers that are better than Giddey aren’t that hard to find especially if you’re pick high consistently. They might not grab as many rebounds and dish as many assists but they have a better overall impact and/or a higher ceiling than Giddey. I’d take Stephon Castle over Giddey or just about anyone on a 25 under 25 list over Giddey. I’d take Cooper, Dylan, or KJ over Giddey as a primary ball handler. I think you’re concentrating too heavily on rebounding and assists with any other additional context.

I think you’re oversimplifying his fit on other teams. He’s really played well when the offense revolves around him. He doesn’t play well when he’s not the focal point of the offense. This is not a good sign.

While he’s playing well, this is still a relatively small sample size. We have to wait and see how it materializes with more data. It’s easy to put up 20 when you have the ball in your hands with the defense playing attention to you. Let’s see how he reacts when the defense adjusts to him.

The offense has never revolved around him!! At least until now. 53 games is not a small sample size. Just saw this same discussion on Gil's Arena. Is it easier to score 30 on a bad team than on a good team? You'll get more shot attempts on a bad team if you're the main option so the easy answer is yes. But you're defended much heavier, scouted much heavier, and double teamed more if you're the only option. It's actually harder to score 30 on a bad team without dropping heavily in efficiency.

If he's not starting the offense with the ball in his hands, yes , he's wasted. But he's effective running the offense with the ball in his hands, more effective than anybody here except Lonzo. You want to believe completely unproven rookies who haven't even been drafted yet will run an offense better than Giddey, who's actually doing it, be my guest. Are those guys getting 8 and 9 assists on their teams? Spurs trading for De Aaron Fox shows they don't share your belief that Castle should lead the team. He's averaging 3.4 assists with 11 shot attempts in 25 minutes. He's not setting players up to score. Same with Flagg, he gets 4 assists in 31.4 mins.

There's a gap between oversimplifying and overanalyzing. I use simple points, rebounds, and assists because every advanced metric has things they don't account for too. Like team composition, or what position you actually play on your team, what are your responsibilities, regardless of your listed position. They're all players, doesn't matter if Giddey at "SG" or Jalen Williams gets the 8 rebounds, as long as somebody gets them. Assists are simple, a pass to a teammate that results in a score. If you want to quibble and be specific, passes you make to a player where they don't score but get to the free throw line aren't even counted in assists. So he doesn't get credit for helping generate points when I just list his assists. Or passes that lead to assists. Or most often, good passes to a teammate that would have been an assist, but they miss the shot.

[WindyCityBorn]

I'm not saying he's going to get $30 mill. I'm placing that as an upper range. If you want to know where the number comes from, it was his earlier reported contract expectations. I didn't just make up the number. I've also said a lot would depend on which teams have enough to sign him and if the Nets make other moves. That would severely limit his leverage.

He's performing better this season than last season, in almost every area. It's reasonable to expect his contract expectations could be the same or higher.

Giddey fits on any team that needs rebounding and playmaking. Like the Bulls. We went years with no playmaker and our PF averaging 4 rebounds. Teams need more than just scoring. rebounds mean more shot opportunities for your team, less for the other team. They have an offensive and defensive impact. Assists means you helped a teammate score a basket, guaranteed. 100% points if you get an assist.

You're saying it's not that hard to find that guy? Name the guys that are putting up Giddey's numbers, are under 25, and we could get without mortgaging the team. Since they're not hard to find, should be lots.

Kid's putting up 20+ points regularly now, with 16 rebound games, plus tons of assists, while getting blocks and steals now. Teams are not going to have to work hard to convince themselves that could be useful.

Primary ball handlers that are better than Giddey aren’t that hard to find especially if you’re pick high consistently. They might not grab as many rebounds and dish as many assists but they have a better overall impact and/or a higher ceiling than Giddey. I’d take Stephon Castle over Giddey or just about anyone on a 25 under 25 list over Giddey. I’d take Cooper, Dylan, or KJ over Giddey as a primary ball handler. I think you’re concentrating too heavily on rebounding and assists with any other additional context.

I think you’re oversimplifying his fit on other teams. He’s really played well when the offense revolves around him. He doesn’t play well when he’s not the focal point of the offense. This is not a good sign.

While he’s playing well, this is still a relatively small sample size. We have to wait and see how it materializes with more data. It’s easy to put up 20 when you have the ball in your hands with the defense playing attention to you. Let’s see how he reacts when the defense adjusts to him.

The offense has never revolved around him!! At least until now. 53 games is not a small sample size. Just saw this same discussion on Gil's Arena. Is it easier to score 30 on a bad team than on a good team? You'll get more shot attempts on a bad team if you're the main option so the easy answer is yes. But you're defended much heavier, scouted much heavier, and double teamed more if you're the only option. It's actually harder to score 30 on a bad team without dropping heavily in efficiency.

If he's not starting the offense with the ball in his hands, yes , he's wasted. But he's effective running the offense with the ball in his hands, more effective than anybody here except Lonzo. You want to believe completely unproven rookies who haven't even been drafted yet will run an offense better than Giddey, who's actually doing it, be my guest. Are those guys getting 8 and 9 assists on their teams? Spurs trading for De Aaron Fox shows they don't share your belief that Castle should lead the team. He's averaging 3.4 assists with 11 shot attempts in 25 minutes. He's not setting players up to score. Same with Flagg, he gets 4 assists in 31.4 mins.

There's a gap between oversimplifying and overanalyzing. I use simple points, rebounds, and assists because every advanced metric has things they don't account for too. Like team composition, or what position you actually play on your team, what are your responsibilities, regardless of your listed position. They're all players, doesn't matter if Giddey at "SG" or Jalen Williams gets the 8 rebounds, as long as somebody gets them. Assists are simple, a pass to a teammate that results in a score. If you want to quibble and be specific, passes you make to a player where they don't score but get to the free throw line aren't even counted in assists. So he doesn't get credit for helping generate points when I just list his assists. Or passes that lead to assists. Or most often, good passes to a teammate that would have been an assist, but they miss the shot.

Giddey is probably top 5 passer in the NBA. Who is definitively better other Lebron, Luka, Jokic and Chris Paul. Lonzo Ball is a great passer too with higher IQ, but he doesn’t have Giddey’s ability make plays for himself or teammates in the half court sets. He would have been ideal for the role OKC tried to use Giddey in last season though.

[Dan Z]

Primary ball handlers that are better than Giddey aren’t that hard to find especially if you’re pick high consistently. They might not grab as many rebounds and dish as many assists but they have a better overall impact and/or a higher ceiling than Giddey. I’d take Stephon Castle over Giddey or just about anyone on a 25 under 25 list over Giddey. I’d take Cooper, Dylan, or KJ over Giddey as a primary ball handler. I think you’re concentrating too heavily on rebounding and assists with any other additional context.

I think you’re oversimplifying his fit on other teams. He’s really played well when the offense revolves around him. He doesn’t play well when he’s not the focal point of the offense. This is not a good sign.

While he’s playing well, this is still a relatively small sample size. We have to wait and see how it materializes with more data. It’s easy to put up 20 when you have the ball in your hands with the defense playing attention to you. Let’s see how he reacts when the defense adjusts to him.

The offense has never revolved around him!! At least until now. 53 games is not a small sample size. Just saw this same discussion on Gil's Arena. Is it easier to score 30 on a bad team than on a good team? You'll get more shot attempts on a bad team if you're the main option so the easy answer is yes. But you're defended much heavier, scouted much heavier, and double teamed more if you're the only option. It's actually harder to score 30 on a bad team without dropping heavily in efficiency.

If he's not starting the offense with the ball in his hands, yes , he's wasted. But he's effective running the offense with the ball in his hands, more effective than anybody here except Lonzo. You want to believe completely unproven rookies who haven't even been drafted yet will run an offense better than Giddey, who's actually doing it, be my guest. Are those guys getting 8 and 9 assists on their teams? Spurs trading for De Aaron Fox shows they don't share your belief that Castle should lead the team. He's averaging 3.4 assists with 11 shot attempts in 25 minutes. He's not setting players up to score. Same with Flagg, he gets 4 assists in 31.4 mins.

There's a gap between oversimplifying and overanalyzing. I use simple points, rebounds, and assists because every advanced metric has things they don't account for too. Like team composition, or what position you actually play on your team, what are your responsibilities, regardless of your listed position. They're all players, doesn't matter if Giddey at "SG" or Jalen Williams gets the 8 rebounds, as long as somebody gets them. Assists are simple, a pass to a teammate that results in a score. If you want to quibble and be specific, passes you make to a player where they don't score but get to the free throw line aren't even counted in assists. So he doesn't get credit for helping generate points when I just list his assists. Or passes that lead to assists. Or most often, good passes to a teammate that would have been an assist, but they miss the shot.

Giddey is probably top 5 passer in the NBA. Who is definitively better other Lebron, Luka, Jokic and Chris Paul. Lonzo Ball is a great passer too with higher IQ, but he doesn’t have Giddey’s ability make plays for himself or teammates in the half court sets. He would have been the deal for the role OKC tried to use Giddey in last season though.

Giddey is a good passer, but add Tyrese Haliburton and Trae Young to that list.

[WindyCityBorn]

The offense has never revolved around him!! At least until now. 53 games is not a small sample size. Just saw this same discussion on Gil's Arena. Is it easier to score 30 on a bad team than on a good team? You'll get more shot attempts on a bad team if you're the main option so the easy answer is yes. But you're defended much heavier, scouted much heavier, and double teamed more if you're the only option. It's actually harder to score 30 on a bad team without dropping heavily in efficiency.

If he's not starting the offense with the ball in his hands, yes , he's wasted. But he's effective running the offense with the ball in his hands, more effective than anybody here except Lonzo. You want to believe completely unproven rookies who haven't even been drafted yet will run an offense better than Giddey, who's actually doing it, be my guest. Are those guys getting 8 and 9 assists on their teams? Spurs trading for De Aaron Fox shows they don't share your belief that Castle should lead the team. He's averaging 3.4 assists with 11 shot attempts in 25 minutes. He's not setting players up to score. Same with Flagg, he gets 4 assists in 31.4 mins.

There's a gap between oversimplifying and overanalyzing. I use simple points, rebounds, and assists because every advanced metric has things they don't account for too. Like team composition, or what position you actually play on your team, what are your responsibilities, regardless of your listed position. They're all players, doesn't matter if Giddey at "SG" or Jalen Williams gets the 8 rebounds, as long as somebody gets them. Assists are simple, a pass to a teammate that results in a score. If you want to quibble and be specific, passes you make to a player where they don't score but get to the free throw line aren't even counted in assists. So he doesn't get credit for helping generate points when I just list his assists. Or passes that lead to assists. Or most often, good passes to a teammate that would have been an assist, but they miss the shot.

Giddey is probably top 5 passer in the NBA. Who is definitively better other Lebron, Luka, Jokic and Chris Paul. Lonzo Ball is a great passer too with higher IQ, but he doesn’t have Giddey’s ability make plays for himself or teammates in the half court sets. He would have been the deal for the role OKC tried to use Giddey in last season though.

Giddey is a good passer, but add Tyrese Haliburton and Trae Young to that list.

I would agree with those. Still great company to be in.

[PJSteven22]

I'm not saying he's going to get $30 mill. I'm placing that as an upper range. If you want to know where the number comes from, it was his earlier reported contract expectations. I didn't just make up the number. I've also said a lot would depend on which teams have enough to sign him and if the Nets make other moves. That would severely limit his leverage.

He's performing better this season than last season, in almost every area. It's reasonable to expect his contract expectations could be the same or higher.

Giddey fits on any team that needs rebounding and playmaking. Like the Bulls. We went years with no playmaker and our PF averaging 4 rebounds. Teams need more than just scoring. rebounds mean more shot opportunities for your team, less for the other team. They have an offensive and defensive impact. Assists means you helped a teammate score a basket, guaranteed. 100% points if you get an assist.

You're saying it's not that hard to find that guy? Name the guys that are putting up Giddey's numbers, are under 25, and we could get without mortgaging the team. Since they're not hard to find, should be lots.

Kid's putting up 20+ points regularly now, with 16 rebound games, plus tons of assists, while getting blocks and steals now. Teams are not going to have to work hard to convince themselves that could be useful.

Primary ball handlers that are better than Giddey aren’t that hard to find especially if you’re pick high consistently. They might not grab as many rebounds and dish as many assists but they have a better overall impact and/or a higher ceiling than Giddey. I’d take Stephon Castle over Giddey or just about anyone on a 25 under 25 list over Giddey. I’d take Cooper, Dylan, or KJ over Giddey as a primary ball handler. I think you’re concentrating too heavily on rebounding and assists with any other additional context.

I think you’re oversimplifying his fit on other teams. He’s really played well when the offense revolves around him. He doesn’t play well when he’s not the focal point of the offense. This is not a good sign.

While he’s playing well, this is still a relatively small sample size. We have to wait and see how it materializes with more data. It’s easy to put up 20 when you have the ball in your hands with the defense playing attention to you. Let’s see how he reacts when the defense adjusts to him.

The offense has never revolved around him!! At least until now. 53 games is not a small sample size. Just saw this same discussion on Gil's Arena. Is it easier to score 30 on a bad team than on a good team? You'll get more shot attempts on a bad team if you're the main option so the easy answer is yes. But you're defended much heavier, scouted much heavier, and double teamed more if you're the only option. It's actually harder to score 30 on a bad team without dropping heavily in efficiency.

If he's not starting the offense with the ball in his hands, yes , he's wasted. But he's effective running the offense with the ball in his hands, more effective than anybody here except Lonzo. You want to believe completely unproven rookies who haven't even been drafted yet will run an offense better than Giddey, who's actually doing it, be my guest. Are those guys getting 8 and 9 assists on their teams? Spurs trading for De Aaron Fox shows they don't share your belief that Castle should lead the team. He's averaging 3.4 assists with 11 shot attempts in 25 minutes. He's not setting players up to score. Same with Flagg, he gets 4 assists in 31.4 mins.

There's a gap between oversimplifying and overanalyzing. I use simple points, rebounds, and assists because every advanced metric has things they don't account for too. Like team composition, or what position you actually play on your team, what are your responsibilities, regardless of your listed position. They're all players, doesn't matter if Giddey at "SG" or Jalen Williams gets the 8 rebounds, as long as somebody gets them. Assists are simple, a pass to a teammate that results in a score. If you want to quibble and be specific, passes you make to a player where they don't score but get to the free throw line aren't even counted in assists. So he doesn't get credit for helping generate points when I just list his assists. Or passes that lead to assists. Or most often, good passes to a teammate that would have been an assist, but they miss the shot.

Obviously you didn’t pay attention to him in OKC. He was 2nd on the team in touches his second year. If you paid attention to teams other than Bulls. This isn’t new information. He even posted good stats while SGA was out. Please don’t speak on things you have no knowledge of. He also didn’t have the best on off metrics either. Even though he’s improved shooting he still has a slow release that limits him to open catch and shoot opportunities.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/josh-giddey-stats-without-shai-2023

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/rTEXFlzj0N

https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunder/s/IlJbnIEHtu

Again it’s an underlying theme in his young career. He can’t really play when there’s other good talent around him. Which is concerning because if Matas makes a jump and the rookie you draft is really good then he’s back at square one. He has to fix that first and foremost.


You continue to miss the larger point. Assists don’t equate to better playmaker.

[Infinity2152]

Giddey is probably top 5 passer in the NBA. Who is definitively better other Lebron, Luka, Jokic and Chris Paul. Lonzo Ball is a great passer too with higher IQ, but he doesn’t have Giddey’s ability make plays for himself or teammates in the half court sets. He would have been the deal for the role OKC tried to use Giddey in last season though.

Giddey is a good passer, but add Tyrese Haliburton and Trae Young to that list.

I would agree with those. Still great company to be in.

Especially since Lebron and CP3 have been in the league like 20 years and have to be on their way out the door, lol. Paul's down to 9 pts/game and is 39. So top 5 passer under 39.

[PJSteven22]

Primary ball handlers that are better than Giddey aren’t that hard to find especially if you’re pick high consistently. They might not grab as many rebounds and dish as many assists but they have a better overall impact and/or a higher ceiling than Giddey. I’d take Stephon Castle over Giddey or just about anyone on a 25 under 25 list over Giddey. I’d take Cooper, Dylan, or KJ over Giddey as a primary ball handler. I think you’re concentrating too heavily on rebounding and assists with any other additional context.

I think you’re oversimplifying his fit on other teams. He’s really played well when the offense revolves around him. He doesn’t play well when he’s not the focal point of the offense. This is not a good sign.

While he’s playing well, this is still a relatively small sample size. We have to wait and see how it materializes with more data. It’s easy to put up 20 when you have the ball in your hands with the defense playing attention to you. Let’s see how he reacts when the defense adjusts to him.

The offense has never revolved around him!! At least until now. 53 games is not a small sample size. Just saw this same discussion on Gil's Arena. Is it easier to score 30 on a bad team than on a good team? You'll get more shot attempts on a bad team if you're the main option so the easy answer is yes. But you're defended much heavier, scouted much heavier, and double teamed more if you're the only option. It's actually harder to score 30 on a bad team without dropping heavily in efficiency.

If he's not starting the offense with the ball in his hands, yes , he's wasted. But he's effective running the offense with the ball in his hands, more effective than anybody here except Lonzo. You want to believe completely unproven rookies who haven't even been drafted yet will run an offense better than Giddey, who's actually doing it, be my guest. Are those guys getting 8 and 9 assists on their teams? Spurs trading for De Aaron Fox shows they don't share your belief that Castle should lead the team. He's averaging 3.4 assists with 11 shot attempts in 25 minutes. He's not setting players up to score. Same with Flagg, he gets 4 assists in 31.4 mins.

There's a gap between oversimplifying and overanalyzing. I use simple points, rebounds, and assists because every advanced metric has things they don't account for too. Like team composition, or what position you actually play on your team, what are your responsibilities, regardless of your listed position. They're all players, doesn't matter if Giddey at "SG" or Jalen Williams gets the 8 rebounds, as long as somebody gets them. Assists are simple, a pass to a teammate that results in a score. If you want to quibble and be specific, passes you make to a player where they don't score but get to the free throw line aren't even counted in assists. So he doesn't get credit for helping generate points when I just list his assists. Or passes that lead to assists. Or most often, good passes to a teammate that would have been an assist, but they miss the shot.

Giddey is probably top 5 passer in the NBA. Who is definitively better other Lebron, Luka, Jokic and Chris Paul. Lonzo Ball is a great passer too with higher IQ, but he doesn’t have Giddey’s ability make plays for himself or teammates in the half court sets. He would have been ideal for the role OKC tried to use Giddey in last season though.

No maybe top 10
LeBron
Luka
Jokic
CP3
Haliburton
Harden
LaMelo
Cade
He has a case after that