Time to package Sharpe?

[Walton1one]

I mean, if Cronin trades for Zion, or Trae, you have to ask yourself why those teams are getting rid of them? Is it because one can’t stay healthy (or fit) and the other is not a winning player and has never led his team anywhere but somehow with this team he will? Only a fool believes that

[JasonStern]

Two relevant questions to answer with guys on rookie scale contracts are: (1) is he our franchise player (or do we otherwise have one), and (2) is he worth a pricey second contract, at least? If the answers to both are no, you have to at least consider throwing him back and resuming fishing for the guy or guys around which you will construct your roster. Extending or matching pretty good players to big contracts will not pull this team out of the cellar. You don't exit a rebuild until you have a core you are prepared to compete with. And you don't sign players to big contracts until you are ready to exit the rebuild. I don't believe we have a competitive core in place.

I get your point. But if that's your metric, the Blazers would have no players on the roster. And even going back to the 1990-1992 teams, Drexler would be the only person that passes your test. No Porter, Duckworth, Williams, Kersey, Robinson, etc. But damn it! If we just abandon those players - most of which organically developed - and tank for years, we'll show the league! Right, Sacramento, Chicago, Charlotte, etc.?

I still think that Simons and Ayton are young enough to try to keep developing. And if that fails, again $50M in cap space after next season. There is no rule that we have to re-sign them. And since they are expirings, they have less value. And since they have several seasons played, what they bring is apparent and not as valuable as many believe it to be.

The big question is Grant's contract. It goes on too long to try to utilize a cap space window. He's too old and his game flawed to win with this core. Seems like a great guy, but he's what you start with when you start considering timelines and cap space hits.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Two relevant questions to answer with guys on rookie scale contracts are: (1) is he our franchise player (or do we otherwise have one), and (2) is he worth a pricey second contract, at least? If the answers to both are no, you have to at least consider throwing him back and resuming fishing for the guy or guys around which you will construct your roster. Extending or matching pretty good players to big contracts will not pull this team out of the cellar. You don't exit a rebuild until you have a core you are prepared to compete with. And you don't sign players to big contracts until you are ready to exit the rebuild. I don't believe we have a competitive core in place.

I get your point. But if that's your metric, the Blazers would have no players on the roster. And even going back to the 1990-1992 teams, Drexler would be the only person that passes your test. No Porter, Duckworth, Williams, Kersey, Robinson, etc. But damn it! If we just abandon those players - most of which organically developed - and tank for years, we'll show the league! Right, Sacramento, Chicago, Charlotte, etc.?

I still think that Simons and Ayton are young enough to try to keep developing. And if that fails, again $50M in cap space after next season. There is no rule that we have to re-sign them. And since they are expirings, they have less value. And since they have several seasons played, what they bring is apparent and not as valuable as many believe it to be.

The big question is Grant's contract. It goes on too long to try to utilize a cap space window. He's too old and his game flawed to win with this core. Seems like a great guy, but he's what you start with when you start considering timelines and cap space hits.

Porter, Kersey, and Robinson all pass the test of being worth market-rate contracts by the end of their rookie deals, but it was also so different a financial landscape then as to defy direct comparison. Once you lock a great core in place, or even just stumble upon competitiveness, it's off to the races.

And look, I'm with you about tanking. Most of the time, it doesn't work. But most of the time, nothing works. I strongly opposed tearing the Lillard era down, and I opposing tearing any competitive team down. But once you're already in the cellar, you might as well do what you can to maximize your access to the top of the draft, a place you never had to (or got to) be while you were winning, and the place that respesents your best chance to add top talent.

This isn't the only option, I fully recognize. You can build with what you've got, organically, and then tinker around the edges as the core improves. This rarely works to vault a team into contention, but as I said, tanking also rarely works. Better to just optimize the roster to win as much as possible, then? I get that view, too, and I endorse it when a team has a roster worth getting behind. I just think this roster sucks, and I'd like to replace most of our players with better ones, even if that means taking some big risks and missing some or most of the time.

[JasonStern]

Porter, Kersey, and Robinson all pass the test of being worth market-rate contracts by the end of their rookie deals, but it was also so different a financial landscape then as to defy direct comparison. Once you lock a great core in place, or even just stumble upon competitiveness, it's off to the races.

Different era. Those contracts look cheap now, but back in Wizenheimer's day, those guys are making how much?!? Blow the team up!!!

But equally important is cohesion. The Blazers have been legit contenders twice in my life - 1990-1992 and 2000; robbed of a third with the RAMBO line-up. What did those teams have in common? The core had multiple consecutive seasons playing together, then added a missing piece to try to put them over the edge.

And I feel like the team is finally getting some cohesion. It still lacks talent - the recent wins are great, but they predominantly came against bottom feeders. But at the start of the season, they were losing to those bottom feeders. We're three seasons into a rebuild. The "TRADE EVERYONE!" after any bad game mindset is short sighted and how you stay in the lottery.

The only player that needs to go is Grant. And I actually like Grant. I just hate his contract. It's too large for too long, and limits the Blazers cap flexibility after next season. Plus he's already 30, so he's already starting to enter the decline period athletically. And he always had flaws in his game. I think we're tied for rebounds per game, and I'm a drunk-ass on the internet - not someone on an NBA roster.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Porter, Kersey, and Robinson all pass the test of being worth market-rate contracts by the end of their rookie deals, but it was also so different a financial landscape then as to defy direct comparison. Once you lock a great core in place, or even just stumble upon competitiveness, it's off to the races.

Different era. Those contracts look cheap now, but back in Wizenheimer's day, those guys are making how much?!? Blow the team up!!!

But equally important is cohesion. The Blazers have been legit contenders twice in my life - 1990-1992 and 2000; robbed of a third with the RAMBO line-up. What did those teams have in common? The core had multiple consecutive seasons playing together, then added a missing piece to try to put them over the edge.

And I feel like the team is finally getting some cohesion. It still lacks talent - the recent wins are great, but they predominantly came against bottom feeders. But at the start of the season, they were losing to those bottom feeders. We're three seasons into a rebuild. The "TRADE EVERYONE!" after any bad game mindset is short sighted and how you stay in the lottery.

The only player that needs to go is Grant. And I actually like Grant. I just hate his contract. It's too large for too long, and limits the Blazers cap flexibility after next season. Plus he's already 30, so he's already starting to enter the decline period athletically. And he always had flaws in his game. I think we're tied for rebounds per game, and I'm a drunk-ass on the internet - not someone on an NBA roster.

I cannot find it at the moment, but I am sure I have read a study that demonstrated there is no correlation between roster continuity and winning. (To be completely fair, I did, however, find an unscientific article arguing the opposite: https://www.theringer.com/2022/08/16/nba/nba-trades-kevin-durant-roster-continuity.) The Blazers contenders you cite were renowned for their talent depth. And the 2000 squad replaced two starters from the 1999 team, so it's a puzzling inclusion.

And I don't say "TRADE EVERYONE" after losses only. I say it after wins, too.

[oldfishermen]

Has Billups lost Sharpe? Would Sharpe play better, and make more of an effort, under a new coach?

It appears Sharpe does not want to play for Billups. And Billups has no real interest, or incentive, to develop the kids, unless there is no other choice.

When Billups took two games off for personal reasons, around Christmas. I believe Fleming coached the team? Sharpe had a good/decent game against Dallas, and a monster game against Utah.

Playing the vets only helps Billups's resume, and hurts the development of the teams future.

I say it is time to put the team first, and fire Billups. Let Fleming be the interim coach for the rest of the season. And conduct a real search for a coach that knows how to develop players.

Give Sharpe a second chance. This will help decide what player moves/directing to make this off season. Winning or loosing a few more games will not make much difference now. Lets see what the kids can do!!!

[PDXKnight]

Has Billups lost Sharpe? Would Sharpe play better, and make more of an effort, under a new coach?

It appears Sharpe does not want to play for Billups. And Billups has no real interest, or incentive, to develop the kids, unless there is no other choice.

When Billups took two games off for personal reasons, around Christmas. I believe Fleming coached the team? Sharpe had a good/decent game against Dallas, and a monster game against Utah.

Playing the vets only helps Billups's resume, and hurts the development of the teams future.

I say it is time to put the team first, and fire Billups. Let Fleming be the interim coach for the rest of the season. And conduct a real search for a coach that knows how to develop players.

Give Sharpe a second chance. This will help decide what player moves/directing to make this off season. Winning or loosing a few more games will not make much difference now. Lets see what the kids can do!!!

I agree withe the sentiment. Just want to correct that Nate Bjorkgren was the interim HC for those 2 games

[oldfishermen]

Has Billups lost Sharpe? Would Sharpe play better, and make more of an effort, under a new coach?

It appears Sharpe does not want to play for Billups. And Billups has no real interest, or incentive, to develop the kids, unless there is no other choice.

When Billups took two games off for personal reasons, around Christmas. I believe Fleming coached the team? Sharpe had a good/decent game against Dallas, and a monster game against Utah.

Playing the vets only helps Billups's resume, and hurts the development of the teams future.

I say it is time to put the team first, and fire Billups. Let Fleming be the interim coach for the rest of the season. And conduct a real search for a coach that knows how to develop players.

Give Sharpe a second chance. This will help decide what player moves/directing to make this off season. Winning or loosing a few more games will not make much difference now. Lets see what the kids can do!!!

I agree withe the sentiment. Just want to correct that Nate Bjorkgren was the interim HC for those 2 games

My bad, thanks for the tuneup.

[Case2012]

I can't stand Sharpe but you bring up a good point about Billups, it could just be him because he's clearly checked out. So i guess fire billups and see how he plays after that but i'm still skeptical of a guy that plays with no motor. Prove billups wrong instead of giving half ass performances, you're still getting paid millions of $$$, show you deserve it

[BlazersBroncos]

I can't stand Sharpe but you bring up a good point about Billups, it could just be him because he's clearly checked out. So i guess fire billups and see how he plays after that but i'm still skeptical of a guy that plays with no motor. Prove billups wrong instead of giving half ass performances, you're still getting paid millions of $$$, show you deserve it

This is simply how Sharpe has always played and I dont see how paying him tens of millions of dollars is going to change that.

I do agree that ideally we get a new coach for 25/26 and give Sharpe a final chance to actually show on court improvement and some fire in his belly. I wouldnt bet on that, but he is naturally talented enough to throw a few more chance at than a normal prospect.

On the other hand if we are sitting in the draft and BPA is a SG (Kasparas, VJ, Tre, Harper) - I would for sure field calls on Sharpe and see if we could get a middle teens pick (12-16) and another future lightly protected FRP for Sharpe.

He is basically a poor mans Jalen Green on his best days. When looking at his advanced metrics the most apt comparison for Sharpe at this point in his career is Nick Young. Which is gross.

[dunlop212]

That 2000 team was a fluke. PDX had an owner who spent cash for players when the other owners didn't. Count the lottery picks on the 2000-2001 roster; that was for a team that had not been in the lottery for twenty years.

[Tim Lehrbach]

I can't stand Sharpe but you bring up a good point about Billups, it could just be him because he's clearly checked out. So i guess fire billups and see how he plays after that but i'm still skeptical of a guy that plays with no motor. Prove billups wrong instead of giving half ass performances, you're still getting paid millions of $$$, show you deserve it

This is simply how Sharpe has always played and I dont see how paying him tens of millions of dollars is going to change that.

I do agree that ideally we get a new coach for 25/26 and give Sharpe a final chance to actually show on court improvement and some fire in his belly. I wouldnt bet on that, but he is naturally talented enough to throw a few more chance at than a normal prospect.

On the other hand if we are sitting in the draft and BPA is a SG (Kasparas, VJ, Tre, Harper) - I would for sure field calls on Sharpe and see if we could get a middle teens pick (12-16) and another future lightly protected FRP for Sharpe.

He is basically a poor mans Jalen Green on his best days. When looking at his advanced metrics the most apt comparison for Sharpe at this point in his career is Nick Young. Which is gross.

You're right, the company Sharpe keeps includes some players we would not want on this roster, let alone on a starter-level contract. He's a little better than Von Wafer, at least...

[Shem]

Has Billups lost Sharpe? Would Sharpe play better, and make more of an effort, under a new coach?

It appears Sharpe does not want to play for Billups. And Billups has no real interest, or incentive, to develop the kids, unless there is no other choice.

People close to the team have said multiple times that it's hard to get Sharpe motivated. Billups literally told him to be more selfish and not to defer so much. Then there are teams that were hunting him on defense that eventually got him benched.

I've seen in an interview where Billups said, "I wish Shaedon would play angry all the time" when referring to a game where an opposing player pissed him off and he then went off and had a great game.

I've watched Batum be begged by McMillian, Canales and Stotts to be more aggressive and it didn't work. Some people just don't have the personality to be the best. Michael Jordan literally would make up something bad his opposing player did to him (watch "The Last Dance" on Netflix) to motivate him to be a killer in games when he was feeling complacent.

What else can someone do when both your coaching staff and teammates have encouraged to get you to play more aggressively?

It's a personality thing and it's up to Shaedon to be more than he's being. Look at how many coaches coached Andrew Wiggins and he still for the most part a player with all the talent in the world, but lacked the motivation to be an all-time great that he could have been.

[BlazersBroncos]

I've watched Batum be begged by McMillian, Canales and Stotts to be more aggressive and it didn't work. Some people just don't have the personality to be the best. Michael Jordan literally would make up something bad his opposing player did to him (watch "The Last Dance" on Netflix) to motivate him to be a killer in games when he was feeling complacent.

Yea, Batum wasnt aggressive enough and could appear to coast but he was still a playoff caliber starter with those flaws.

The difference between Sharpe sticking around in the league or becoming a journeyman like Nick Young likely hinges on him finding that aggression and motor. He doesnt have the natural feel on either side of the ball that Batum did - which allowed Batum to be a excellent 4th option type despite not playing with urgency.

And honestly, I saw more on court emotion and heart from Batum than I have ever seen from Sharpe.

[oldfishermen]

Has Billups lost Sharpe? Would Sharpe play better, and make more of an effort, under a new coach?

It appears Sharpe does not want to play for Billups. And Billups has no real interest, or incentive, to develop the kids, unless there is no other choice.

People close to the team have said multiple times that it's hard to get Sharpe motivated. Billups literally told him to be more selfish and not to defer so much. Then there are teams that were hunting him on defense that eventually got him benched.

I've seen in an interview where Billups said, "I wish Shaedon would play angry all the time" when referring to a game where an opposing player pissed him off and he then went off and had a great game.

I've watched Batum be begged by McMillian, Canales and Stotts to be more aggressive and it didn't work. Some people just don't have the personality to be the best. Michael Jordan literally would make up something bad his opposing player did to him (watch "The Last Dance" on Netflix) to motivate him to be a killer in games when he was feeling complacent.

What else can someone do when both your coaching staff and teammates have encouraged to get you to play more aggressively?

It's a personality thing and it's up to Shaedon to be more than he's being. Look at how many coaches coached Andrew Wiggins and he still for the most part a player with all the talent in the world, but lacked the motivation to be an all-time great that he could have been.

I'll take your word as true. But, this begs the question.

If everyone close to the team knows how difficult Sharpe is. Why was he not traded when his value was higher?

As far as Batum, please correct me if my memory is off.

Batum was agressive, untill, Ron Artest hurt him during a game. I want to say Ron dropped Nic on his head, and hurt Nics back. But not sure that is how it happened? Nic was never the same after that injury.

[Shem]

Has Billups lost Sharpe? Would Sharpe play better, and make more of an effort, under a new coach?

It appears Sharpe does not want to play for Billups. And Billups has no real interest, or incentive, to develop the kids, unless there is no other choice.

People close to the team have said multiple times that it's hard to get Sharpe motivated. Billups literally told him to be more selfish and not to defer so much. Then there are teams that were hunting him on defense that eventually got him benched.

I've seen in an interview where Billups said, "I wish Shaedon would play angry all the time" when referring to a game where an opposing player pissed him off and he then went off and had a great game.

I've watched Batum be begged by McMillian, Canales and Stotts to be more aggressive and it didn't work. Some people just don't have the personality to be the best. Michael Jordan literally would make up something bad his opposing player did to him (watch "The Last Dance" on Netflix) to motivate him to be a killer in games when he was feeling complacent.

What else can someone do when both your coaching staff and teammates have encouraged to get you to play more aggressively?

It's a personality thing and it's up to Shaedon to be more than he's being. Look at how many coaches coached Andrew Wiggins and he still for the most part a player with all the talent in the world, but lacked the motivation to be an all-time great that he could have been.

I'll take your word as true. But, this begs the question.

If everyone close to the team knows how difficult Sharpe is. Why was he not traded when his value was higher?

In Sharpe's first year, most of it was him coming off the bench in spot minutes while Dame was on the team to develop him. He really showed his potential once they shutdown most of the team and put him in the lineup.

In his 2nd year, he only played 32 games because of his lower abdominal strain injury. He even tried to play through it for a portion of the season. There was signs of his passiveness, but it more appeared in limited time that he was just deferring to the veterans.

We're now in his 3rd year that hasn't been an injury prone season where these weaknesses we're talking about have apparently showed up.

As far as Batum, please correct me if my memory is off.

Batum was agressive, untill, Ron Artest hurt him during a game. I want to say Ron dropped Nic on his head, and hurt Nics back. But not sure that is how it happened? Nic was never the same after that injury.

Replace Nic Batum with Rudy Fernandez and Ron Artest with Trevor Ariza and the story matches up to a tee. The game you are thinking about was against the Lakers and the Blazers were just wiping the floor with them and Ariza out of frustration clobbered Rudy and he wasn't the same because of the back injury.

[oldfishermen]

People close to the team have said multiple times that it's hard to get Sharpe motivated. Billups literally told him to be more selfish and not to defer so much. Then there are teams that were hunting him on defense that eventually got him benched.

I've seen in an interview where Billups said, "I wish Shaedon would play angry all the time" when referring to a game where an opposing player pissed him off and he then went off and had a great game.

I've watched Batum be begged by McMillian, Canales and Stotts to be more aggressive and it didn't work. Some people just don't have the personality to be the best. Michael Jordan literally would make up something bad his opposing player did to him (watch "The Last Dance" on Netflix) to motivate him to be a killer in games when he was feeling complacent.

What else can someone do when both your coaching staff and teammates have encouraged to get you to play more aggressively?

It's a personality thing and it's up to Shaedon to be more than he's being. Look at how many coaches coached Andrew Wiggins and he still for the most part a player with all the talent in the world, but lacked the motivation to be an all-time great that he could have been.

I'll take your word as true. But, this begs the question.

If everyone close to the team knows how difficult Sharpe is. Why was he not traded when his value was higher?

In Sharpe's first year, most of it was him coming off the bench in spot minutes while Dame was on the team to develop him. He really showed his potential once they shutdown most of the team and put him in the lineup.

In his 2nd year, he only played 32 games because of his lower abdominal strain injury. He even tried to play through it for a portion of the season. There was signs of his passiveness, but it more appeared in limited time that he was just deferring to the veterans.

We're now in his 3rd year that hasn't been an injury prone season where these weaknesses we're talking about have apparently showed up.

As far as Batum, please correct me if my memory is off.

Batum was agressive, untill, Ron Artest hurt him during a game. I want to say Ron dropped Nic on his head, and hurt Nics back. But not sure that is how it happened? Nic was never the same after that injury.

Replace Nic Batum with Rudy Fernandez and Ron Artest with Trevor Ariza and the story matches up to a tee. The game you are thinking about was against the Lakers and the Blazers were just wiping the floor with them and Ariza out of frustration clobbered Rudy and he wasn't the same because of the back injury.

Your right, it was Rudy. Dang, my memory is not working lately. Getting old sucks.

BTW, it looks like coach Billups made Sharpe drink a 6 pack of red bull before the game.

[PDXKnight]

I'll take your word as true. But, this begs the question.

If everyone close to the team knows how difficult Sharpe is. Why was he not traded when his value was higher?

In Sharpe's first year, most of it was him coming off the bench in spot minutes while Dame was on the team to develop him. He really showed his potential once they shutdown most of the team and put him in the lineup.

In his 2nd year, he only played 32 games because of his lower abdominal strain injury. He even tried to play through it for a portion of the season. There was signs of his passiveness, but it more appeared in limited time that he was just deferring to the veterans.

We're now in his 3rd year that hasn't been an injury prone season where these weaknesses we're talking about have apparently showed up.

As far as Batum, please correct me if my memory is off.

Batum was agressive, untill, Ron Artest hurt him during a game. I want to say Ron dropped Nic on his head, and hurt Nics back. But not sure that is how it happened? Nic was never the same after that injury.

Replace Nic Batum with Rudy Fernandez and Ron Artest with Trevor Ariza and the story matches up to a tee. The game you are thinking about was against the Lakers and the Blazers were just wiping the floor with them and Ariza out of frustration clobbered Rudy and he wasn't the same because of the back injury.

Your right, it was Rudy. Dang, my memory is not working lately. Getting old sucks.

BTW, it looks like coach Billups made Sharpe drink a 6 pack of red bull before the game.

He's looked good. Yet again not doing well in +/- category that's sort of a trend

[Shem]

Your right, it was Rudy. Dang, my memory is not working lately. Getting old sucks.

Watch on YouTube

Let's go back in time.

[Liver_Pooty]

Hornets fan here. That dunk was a god damn hammer. lol. Awesome.