Game 58: Phoenix Suns (27-30) @ Memphis Grizzlies (37-20) | Feb 25 | 6:00 PM

[schnakenpopanz]

with two top 25 players in this league this team should not be 27-31.
oh i meant they are top 25 in turnovers. durant and booker.

[KLEON]

1. Grayson got foul on his 3pt make, no call
2. Bane constantly bullying Kd, no call
3. The foul on Book which was really a moving screen from a Griz player that tripped Booker into Ja, no call
4. JJJ constant moving screens, elbows to Suns players while attacking the rim, no call
The Suns are sh*t but this was a clear robbery

[Frank Lee]

Had something going for a while


Think we need more cowBOL

[sunsbg]

So who are we targeting with the lottery pick ?

[Revived]

Who gets our pick this season, it’s the Nets right?

I’ll be praying to every god that Suns somehow win the lottery and gift them or the Wizards the #1 overall pick which becomes Flagg. This franchise deserves it.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Who gets our pick this season, it’s the Nets right?

I’ll be praying to every god that Suns somehow win the lottery and gift them or the Wizards the #1 overall pick which becomes Flagg. This franchise deserves it.

It's the Rockets! And their fans are being super smug about it on the trade board. But I can't say that I blame them. We effed up ( our front office) not anyone else!

[Revived]

Who gets our pick this season, it’s the Nets right?

I’ll be praying to every god that Suns somehow win the lottery and gift them or the Wizards the #1 overall pick which becomes Flagg. This franchise deserves it.

It's the Rockets! And their fans are being super smug about it on the trade board. But I can't say that I blame them. We effed up ( our front office) not anyone else!

Oh that’s perfect. As a fan of basketball, Cooper Flagg being coached by an excellent coach in Udoka and forming a tandem with Sengun would be an amazing sight to see.

[Ghost of Kleine]

So who are we targeting with the lottery pick ?

With the 29th pick (25' CLE 1st).or the 54th pick (Denver 2nd)..Because Houston has our pick this summer and it's looking like it'll be in the top 5 or so at worst!

We could still get multiple lottery picks, IF we're willing to actually abandon denial. And trade KD and Booker.

The best trade combinations for us being:

KD to San Antonio for Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan AND ATL 25' 1st/ 2030 MIN or DAL 1st very mimimal protections.

Booker to Houston for J Green/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st.

Doing those two trades would give us a young additional core of J Green/ Whitmore/ Vassell/ Sochan. A few quality vets in Landale, Barnes ( 20 million expiring) cap space, and around 5 1sts:

PHX 25' 1st- Top 5 pick.
ATL 25' 1st- 15th pick.
CLE 25' 1st- 29th pick.
DEN 25' 2nd- 54th pick.

So 2 lottery picks and 1 late 1st and a 2nd in this draft. Our picks back, and actually BOTH of Vassell and Sochan are very, very good defenders. Vassell is like a slightly lesser Bridges, and Sochan is a mix of Rodman and Vanderbilt.

** IF HOUSTON lowballs us, I'm instead moving quickly to either Detroit (With Stewart, Thompson or **Holland and Ivey as the package). I'll be willing to take back only two 1sts here because they're young players are awesome!!

And if not Detroit, I'm actually looking at Utah!
Something like Booker for Collins/ Sexton/ Hendricks (like McDaniels)/ 3 1sts (UTA 27' 1st- Top 3 protected)/ UTAH 29' 1st- Top 5 protected/ PHX 31' 1st back.

Then I'm looking to trade Collins and Sexton elsewhere for more young players and picks?? But for our 29th pick, we should be aggressively targeting Caryer Bryant (PJ Washington 6'8 forward) or Jo'an Beringer (Jarrett Allen/ Nik Claxton young raw project center).

Again if at 29. But if we trade KD and get a pick in the teens to early 20s of this draft, we should absolutely take Rasheer Fleming (Antonio Mcdyess/ John Collins with rim protection). And then take Carter Bryant at 29.

[Rebound Mound]

Hello.
Long time reading, almost life-long Suns fan...

The idea that is in my mind is that if we had played this five for most of the season (when healthy), we would not be in this situation.
Bol scored 23+8 in 32 minutes playing alongside KD for most of the time, exactly what we have been missing next to him for most of the year, as KD is 36 and should not be guarding opposing PFs.

Well, it is what it is but the Grizzlies are a very solid team at home and play with 11/12 players. They run, they play with intensity and their offense is very well organized based on the ideas of their Finnish assistant coach whom they hired last summer.

We could still get in the PO. There is 24 games and we need to do +4 on the Clippers.

[Rebound Mound]

Who gets our pick this season, it’s the Nets right?

I’ll be praying to every god that Suns somehow win the lottery and gift them or the Wizards the #1 overall pick which becomes Flagg. This franchise deserves it.

It's the Rockets! And their fans are being super smug about it on the trade board. But I can't say that I blame them. We effed up ( our front office) not anyone else!

Oh that’s perfect. As a fan of basketball, Cooper Flagg being coached by an excellent coach in Udoka and forming a tandem with Sengun would be an amazing sight to see.

From a quality perspective, a nice duo to see together. But both lack size to play their positions already. Sengun is fine at C when he has someone besides him who can intimidate, like Johnson or Smith. I am not saying Flagg cannot be an imposing figure inside, but he is still in college blocking some random shots by 6-5 guys playing PF.

[Frank Lee]

I sure wouldn’t trade those picks. Not for Book or Durant. Better to sit back and watch this train wreck in slow motion.

Those picks are appreciating assets. The gift that keeps on giving. Lotto day got a lot more interesting. Could be a big f-n pie in the face for our Azzhat in charge… X3

The suns are the desperate ones, not them.

[King4Day]

I sure wouldn’t trade those picks. Not for Book or Durant. Better to sit back and watch this train wreck in slow motion.

Those picks are appreciating assets. The gift that keeps on giving. Lotto day got a lot more interesting. Could be a big f-n pie in the face for our Azzhat in charge… X3

The suns are the desperate ones, not them.

It'll really just depend on if Houston values Booker or not. I think they should continue doing what they're doing. They can use our picks to get other players that fit elsewhere.

Suns will get a really good return for Book and a good return for KD. Just a matter of where those returns come from.

[Rebound Mound]

Hello.
Long time reading, almost life-long Suns fan...

The idea that is in my mind is that if we had played this five for most of the season (when healthy), we would not be in this situation.
Bol scored 23+8 in 32 minutes playing alongside KD for most of the time, exactly what we have been missing next to him for most of the year, as KD is 36 and should not be guarding opposing PFs.

Well, it is what it is but the Grizzlies are a very solid team at home and play with 11/12 players. They run, they play with intensity and their offense is very well organized based on the ideas of their Finnish assistant coach whom they hired last summer.

We could still get in the PO. There is 24 games and we need to do +4 on the Clippers.

My fault, KD guarded Jackson as he could. He did not do a great job. JJ is strong, can put the ball on the floor, can shoot, can post... on the other hand, it is needed to say that the Grizs run a lot, so it is difficult to get assignments on the fly.
Bol did a great job on guarding opposing wings and it seems like he or somebody has spent time telling him the correct way to defend guys who are 6-5 or 6-6 and now he defends from a distance and that allows him to have time to recover or close up to the basket.

I also saw that offensively, those players are willing to work for the teammate. But defensively they do not care and are not willing to sacrifice a pound of effort for the team unless his man is getting a basket. They do not put bodies on anybody, they do not help their teammates, they just do not want to know any other thing out of his assignment..

[Saberestar]

Hello.
Long time reading, almost life-long Suns fan...

The idea that is in my mind is that if we had played this five for most of the season (when healthy), we would not be in this situation.
Bol scored 23+8 in 32 minutes playing alongside KD for most of the time, exactly what we have been missing next to him for most of the year, as KD is 36 and should not be guarding opposing PFs.

Well, it is what it is but the Grizzlies are a very solid team at home and play with 11/12 players. They run, they play with intensity and their offense is very well organized based on the ideas of their Finnish assistant coach whom they hired last summer.

We could still get in the PO. There is 24 games and we need to do +4 on the Clippers.

Tough TOUGH loss yesterday but the team played well.

Let's move on.
What we must do now is to win the next two games against the Pelicans. Back-to-back and they will be missing Murray and Herbert Jones.

I don't care if we win playing ugly and by one point afte overtime... just get those 2 **** Ws.

If we can get those 2 Ws we can start talking seriously about making a late run to go the playoffs. Let's keep the spirits high.

[bwgood77]

Now that was a great game. Even though I kind of want us to lose to not give Ishbia the false notion we are good, and it takes like 59% 3 pt shooting on high volume to almost beat a good team, I feel bad for the team they lost that one, because they played well.

Though if not for Grayson Allen, we wouldn't have likely been in it.

It gives the illusion Memphis isn't as tough as their record, but I think they are...they just caught us on the hottest shooting night we've had all season. And Ja had a bad shooting night. They are deep, JJJ is a stud, as are Bane and Ja. Even guys like Clarke and Aldama are good and Edey and Wells will only get better. GG Jackson pretty good. They didn't even play Scotty Pippen Jr I don't think who is a really good backup PG.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Obviously our team is horrific defensively. And this draft really does possess some very high end potential defensive talent and two way talent that could dramatically change that issue for us. IF WE actually trade KD for a good package with draft picks in this draft.

Also, Slim is absolutely right that we should target high end defenders like either Thompson
twin if possible, or Ware from Miami, or a Stewart ( toughness/ edge)/ Asuar Thompson OR Ron Holland/ Ivey package would load us up on high end athletic and physical talent.

Or honestly, also Vassell and Sochan from San Antonio. And a bunch of picks in the deal, with focus on this upcoming 25' draft to target the young athletic talents with high end defensive abilities and two way potential too. The very best defenders in this draft are:

1- JoJo Tugler (46 range).
** By a wide margin. Tugler is a 6'8 230 lb wing/ forward version of Montrez Harrell/ Achiuwa with a relentless motor and a 7'6 wingspan that is the best defender in the entire draft.

2- Carter Bryant (33 range).
** Bryant is a big bodied ( 6'8) slightly bigger version of PJ Washington for the Mavs/ with a bit of Richard Jefferson.

3- Jo'an Beringer ( 36 range).
** Beringer is a young raw but very high ceiling super mobile version of Jarrett Allen and Claxton.

4- Niq'ue Clifford ( 31/ Myles Byrd- 39 range).
** A micro ( 6'6) version of Bridges. Byrd is a 6'7 version of Abdel Nader with a high motor.

5- Johni Broome ( 29-30 range) ** But a below the rim super Saric option with some shotblocking.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I sure wouldn’t trade those picks. Not for Book or Durant. Better to sit back and watch this train wreck in slow motion.

Those picks are appreciating assets. The gift that keeps on giving. Lotto day got a lot more interesting. Could be a big f-n pie in the face for our Azzhat in charge… X3

The suns are the desperate ones, not them.

Everything that you've said is spot on man. But regardless of our desperation, we have to at some point stop taking bad value outcome offers and aggressively push for optimal outcomes if our franchise is ever going to break the perennial loser pattern/ mentality.

So if Houston won't give those picks up, then we have to shift to aggressively target young high upside players like from Detroit or OKC w/ picks to try and mitigate the recieving value of those picks.

And even if that doesn't completely mitigate that value, it's better than doing nothing and just trying to keep flailing into obscurity. We'll have at least 5-6 decent to solid options for both if Ishbia can commit to making a good, logical decision for once?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

This is right though, primarily because even though the season is clearly already lost, it's greatly to our benefit for Beal to play well (as good as possible for him/ stay healthy) so that in the summer, there might actually be some teams that can talk themselves into trading for him.

But under so circumstances should we AT ALL entertain any ideas of attaching a draft pick to Beal just to move him. Because that clearly idiotic suggestion that Gerald Bourget offered would be yet another example of horrible asset management! We'll need every single pick we have left going forward and Beal would give us a huge expiring asset in 27.

We'd be much better off just playing him and letting him expire rather than to attach more assets just to offload him when it won't affect our outcome either way!

[Ghost of Kleine]

I sure wouldn’t trade those picks. Not for Book or Durant. Better to sit back and watch this train wreck in slow motion.

Those picks are appreciating assets. The gift that keeps on giving. Lotto day got a lot more interesting. Could be a big f-n pie in the face for our Azzhat in charge… X3

The suns are the desperate ones, not them.

It'll really just depend on if Houston values Booker or not. I think they should continue doing what they're doing. They can use our picks to get other players that fit elsewhere.

Suns will get a really good return for Book and a good return for KD. Just a matter of where those returns come from.

They'll absolutely value him as he's the perfect fit for what they need most. There defense is apex good. But their shooting/ offensive potency is very poor.

Now some of their fans are obviously very cocky ( and somewhat crass) LARS V8 mostly and a few others in takking about how they have us "over a barrel" due to having our picks. And how they'll metaphorically "woodshed" us and force us to give up Booker or KD for almost nothing if lucky!!

But even though I'm highly concerned about Ishbia and Jones being horribly weak negotiators, Jones' contract is up this summer and Ishbia might hire someone actually knowledgeable at their job to course correct!

And I also see the situation differently because we'll have other alternative options for trades if Houston doesn't meet our value thresholds. We then quickly jump to OKC or Detroit for a package of young athletic exciting players and some picks.

OKC has much better pick options to offer in trade, but Detroit has the best alternative young players package of Stewart/ Thompson or Holland ( elite defensive wings) and Ivey (Morant 2.0) that'd give us an alternative option to Houston if they try to fleece us or hardball us with a bad offer. Detroit's 1sts won't carry lottery value, BUT I'd take their player package of those three in a heartbeat!