[Woj] Raptors trade McDaniels for 45th pick, Davion Mitchell, Vezenkov and PDX 2025 2nd

[YogurtProducer]

Ingram, Shead, Walter, and Agbaji for Siakam would be a heist of a trade. Ujiri pulled off some great moves, if we can raise the values of these guys and then sell them for more it would make the OG and Siakam trades look even better. The picks we make this year and with the 2nd round we got for Mitchell next year will continue to spell out how successful these trades were.

Heist is hyperbole, it's moved into solid B territory. Keep in mind that Siakam is fully contributing now whereas Ingram is likely to miss 50+ games this year - that's not a positive sign.

IDK man, seems wild to give a B to a trade in which we got:

Ingram - similar player with potential to surpass Siakam
Walter - 1st round pick
Agbaji - lottery pick 2 years ago who is slashing 10/4/2 on 50/40 splits
Shead - looking like backup PG potential

Plus an incoming 40th-ish pick and 2026 2nd rounder

What else were we gonna get? thats a home run run no brainer

[ArthurVandelay]

Ingram, Shead, Walter, and Agbaji for Siakam would be a heist of a trade. Ujiri pulled off some great moves, if we can raise the values of these guys and then sell them for more it would make the OG and Siakam trades look even better. The picks we make this year and with the 2nd round we got for Mitchell next year will continue to spell out how successful these trades were.

Heist is hyperbole, it's moved into solid B territory. Keep in mind that Siakam is fully contributing now whereas Ingram is likely to miss 50+ games this year - that's not a positive sign.

IDK man, seems wild to give a B to a trade in which we got:

Ingram - similar player with potential to surpass Siakam
Walter - 1st round pick
Agbaji - lottery pick 2 years ago who is slashing 10/4/2 on 50/40 splits
Shead - looking like backup PG potential

Plus an incoming 40th-ish pick and 2026 2nd rounder

What else were we gonna get? thats a home run run no brainer

I give it a B or B+ right now.

If BI can play 65-70+ games next year, it's an A+

[brownbobcat]

Ingram, Shead, Walter, and Agbaji for Siakam would be a heist of a trade. Ujiri pulled off some great moves, if we can raise the values of these guys and then sell them for more it would make the OG and Siakam trades look even better. The picks we make this year and with the 2nd round we got for Mitchell next year will continue to spell out how successful these trades were.

Heist is hyperbole, it's moved into solid B territory. Keep in mind that Siakam is fully contributing now whereas Ingram is likely to miss 50+ games this year - that's not a positive sign.

IDK man, seems wild to give a B to a trade in which we got:

Ingram - similar player with potential to surpass Siakam
Walter - 1st round pick
Agbaji - lottery pick 2 years ago who is slashing 10/4/2 on 50/40 splits
Shead - looking like backup PG potential

Plus an incoming 40th-ish pick and 2026 2nd rounder

What else were we gonna get? thats a home run run no brainer

Ingram and Siakam are vets, why are we talking about potential? He is objectively worse than Siakam this season and for the past several seasons. There's a reason Ingram is getting way less guaranteed money despite being younger. Sure, he's a better "fit" but I'm not convinced Scottie is a star we need to worry about accommodating.

Agbaji has surprised me this season, I think he's a serviceable bench 3+D guy.

I don't think you can fully attribute the Shead/McDaniels trade to Siakam. Yes, there was the TPE but the non-guaranteed contract, room under the apron and risk to deal with Vezenkov also helped. However, even if you did include it, the final package becomes:

Siakam for Ingram, Agbaji, 19th pick, 45th pick, 2025 2nd round, 2026 2nd rounder

I think that's a very solid return for a guy who consistently played at/near All Star level. My definition of A to A+ would be getting back a young player who could be a foundational part of the core going forward and end up being better than Siakam was. If you think that's Ingram, then you probably think more highly of the trade than I do.

A+ is like moving Vasquez for a 1st and 2nd, even before knowing they turned out to become OG and Norm - or moving Bargs for an unprotected 1st.

[YogurtProducer]

Heist is hyperbole, it's moved into solid B territory. Keep in mind that Siakam is fully contributing now whereas Ingram is likely to miss 50+ games this year - that's not a positive sign.

IDK man, seems wild to give a B to a trade in which we got:

Ingram - similar player with potential to surpass Siakam
Walter - 1st round pick
Agbaji - lottery pick 2 years ago who is slashing 10/4/2 on 50/40 splits
Shead - looking like backup PG potential

Plus an incoming 40th-ish pick and 2026 2nd rounder

What else were we gonna get? thats a home run run no brainer

I give it a B or B+ right now.

If BI can play 65-70+ games next year, it's an A+

Yeah health would be the big one.

[YogurtProducer]

Heist is hyperbole, it's moved into solid B territory. Keep in mind that Siakam is fully contributing now whereas Ingram is likely to miss 50+ games this year - that's not a positive sign.

IDK man, seems wild to give a B to a trade in which we got:

Ingram - similar player with potential to surpass Siakam
Walter - 1st round pick
Agbaji - lottery pick 2 years ago who is slashing 10/4/2 on 50/40 splits
Shead - looking like backup PG potential

Plus an incoming 40th-ish pick and 2026 2nd rounder

What else were we gonna get? thats a home run run no brainer

Ingram and Siakam are vets, why are we talking about potential? He is objectively worse than Siakam this season and for the past several seasons. There's a reason Ingram is getting way less guaranteed money despite being younger. Sure, he's a better "fit" but I'm not convinced Scottie is a star we need to worry about accommodating.

Agbaji has surprised me this season, I think he's a serviceable bench 3+D guy.

Because fully healthy I do think Ingram could be a better player than Siakam was. He certainly does not potential to surpass Siakam who is on the downswing of his career. Next year would be Ingrams 28 YO season and if he gets back to being a 25/5/5 type guy who shoots 39% from 3 on 58TS% that is arguably a better player. Even if you prefer Siakam (which right now I do to, other than fo the awkward fit) Ingram is a similar tiered guy.

The reason he got less than Siakam $$$ wise is strictly injury concerns. Fully healthy Ingram demands a max and gets it without question.

I don't think you can fully attribute the Shead/McDaniels trade to Siakam. Yes, there was the TPE but the non-guaranteed contract, room under the apron and risk to deal with Vezenkov also helped. However, even if you did include it, the final package becomes:

If we didn't get a TPE back for Siakam we cant do the deal for Shead/Davion. I think it is ignoring the full picture to NOT include that.

Siakam for Ingram, Agbaji, 19th pick, 45th pick, 2025 2nd round, 2026 2nd rounder

I think that's a very solid return for a guy who consistently played at/near All Star level. My definition of A to A+ would be getting back a young player who could be a foundational part of the core going forward and end up being better than Siakam was. If you think that's Ingram, then you probably think more highly of the trade than I do.

I mean Ingram COULD be better than Siakam was. That is definitely in the realm of possibilities.

Until we see him on the floor it is hard to know his fit, but I do think he fits better with us than he did with NO.

[brownbobcat]

Because fully healthy I do think Ingram could be a better player than Siakam was. He certainly does not potential to surpass Siakam who is on the downswing of his career. Next year would be Ingrams 28 YO season and if he gets back to being a 25/5/5 type guy who shoots 39% from 3 on 58TS% that is arguably a better player. Even if you prefer Siakam (which right now I do to, other than fo the awkward fit) Ingram is a similar tiered guy.

I said this elsewhere, but trading Siakam for a slightly younger equivalent (and some bench pieces) is just OK to me if the goal is rebuilding. That doesn't make it a bad trade, just OK.

Fully healthy Ingram demands a max and gets it without question.

Debatable. After all, NOP didn't want to give it to him before the injuries - by which I mean this season's injury, as opposed to his general injury history. If Ingram had played this year exactly like last season, he'd instantly be one of the worst - if not worst - players making the 30% max at the time of signing.

[YogurtProducer]

Because fully healthy I do think Ingram could be a better player than Siakam was. He certainly does not potential to surpass Siakam who is on the downswing of his career. Next year would be Ingrams 28 YO season and if he gets back to being a 25/5/5 type guy who shoots 39% from 3 on 58TS% that is arguably a better player. Even if you prefer Siakam (which right now I do to, other than fo the awkward fit) Ingram is a similar tiered guy.

I said this elsewhere, but trading Siakam for a slightly younger equivalent (and some bench pieces) is just OK to me if the goal is rebuilding. That doesn't make it a bad trade, just OK.

Fully healthy Ingram demands a max and gets it without question.

Debatable. After all, NOP didn't want to give it to him before the injuries - by which I mean this season's injury, as opposed to his general injury history. If Ingram had played this year exactly like last season, he'd instantly be one of the worst - if not worst - players making the 30% max at the time of signing.

I disagree that he would be on of the worst. He still put up 21/5/6 on 58TS% and only saw a loss in usage due to Zion playing 70 games and CJ being a good offensive player (he just sucks on D lol). Siakam last year did 22/7/4 on 60TS%. It really isn't that different in terms of prodution. ANd Siakam was also checked out defensively last year too

[brownbobcat]

I disagree that he would be on of the worst. He still put up 21/5/6 on 58TS% and only saw a loss in usage due to Zion playing 70 games and CJ being a good offensive player (he just sucks on D lol). Siakam last year did 22/7/4 on 60TS%. It really isn't that different in terms of prodution. ANd Siakam was also checked out defensively last year too

It matters significantly that Siakam is generally better on D. He also played 80 games last year and routinely plays 15-20 games per season more than Ingram.

[YogurtProducer]

I disagree that he would be on of the worst. He still put up 21/5/6 on 58TS% and only saw a loss in usage due to Zion playing 70 games and CJ being a good offensive player (he just sucks on D lol). Siakam last year did 22/7/4 on 60TS%. It really isn't that different in terms of prodution. ANd Siakam was also checked out defensively last year too

It matters significantly that Siakam is generally better on D. He also played 80 games last year and routinely plays 15-20 games per season more than Ingram.

Sure, health matters for sure.

Siakam maybe was better on D 5 years ago. But its been pretty mediocre post-2020 or so.