PG: Tank you

[ConSarnit]

Can we somehow combine Shead and Gradey into one player?

Gradey is such a pain in the ass to watch right now.

I feel like he wasn't even this bad defensively last year. But I kind of wiped out last year from my memory so idk.

Wow. Pessimism from even you. You support pretty much everyone.

Yeah, Gradey is hard to watch & easily my least favorite player to watch on the team. Give me Ochai, Wlater or Battle.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Gradey next season. With BI, Scottie, RJ & Quick taking the bulk of the shots, I can't see him having much of a role other than spot up shooter (which is what it should be).

Hopefully they don't tank whatever value he has as a prospect because they may need to move him to upgrade a position of need.

So far Gradey is reminding me a lot of Bargnani as a prospect. Inefficient scorer who can't defend, but is getting fed a ton of minutes because of his draft ranking.

Dick's mpg have dropped since the team has gotten healthy. He's basically playing 27mpg since mid-Dec. All of our young guards are effectively playing 20mpg+ over the past few months so it's not like anyone is really getting squeezed. Agbaji is playing 27mpg on the season. Maybe Walter could play more (19mpg) but he's a rookie who missed all of training camp. Shead is up to 20mpg over the past 25 games.

For the sake of development in a lost season I don't see any major issue with Dick's minutes. It's not like he's cannibalizing other young guys minutes. My guess is Dick is playing due to potential upside that other guys may not have (I would say Agbaji and Battle are both older and seem clearly on the 3+D path). It's probably worth figuring it out with Dick, at least in this lost season.

[ConSarnit]

I’m fine with taking L’s for the sake of the pick but we got to be realistic, the tank is over. To me Flagg and Harper are the only potential stars and we’re not getting a top 2 pick unless we luck or anyway so i’m fine with whatever wins come. I’d rather have Ingram than Ace Bailey who’s upside is like Ingram 5 years down the line. So just play it out, build chemistry and draft the best player available.

And there was some discussion about Porzingis. He’s like the ideal fit everywhere and you get why he had so much hype early on in NY. Floor spacer, lob threat, rim protection. But of course he has always had issues staying healthy so it is what it is.

We definitely need more big man depth next year, even if we retain Boucher. Maybe thru the draft but more likely in a move involving one of our SG’s (RJ, Gradey or Ochai.)

Yup. This is where we are at.

I actually can't wait to get to the phase where we are trading assets to get the core more veteran help. That is when things start to get interesting from a team building standpoint.

It feels like something is going to have to give regarding our SG's. If we stay the course next year our current SG lineup is:

RJ
Dick
Agbaji
Walter

Our current backup PF/C lineup is:

Mogbo

Things cannot remain that way if we are actually trying to make the playoffs. Even looking that mock drafts a lot of the players in our range could get minutes at SG (Harper, Edgecomb, Johnson, Jakucionis). If we end up with any of those guys it creates an even bigger guard logjam. Even if we draft a big they will almost assuredly not be heavy minute rotation ready like we will probably need to fill the front court holes for a playoff push.

Obviously there is the possibility of going over the tax and signing a big but I still believe this will lead to having to move some player (probably a guard) to avoid the tax at the end of the season (I have little confidence MLSE will pay the tax for the 7th/8th seed.

We could really use a young guard for young big swap.

[Spida888]

Yup. This is where we are at.

I actually can't wait to get to the phase where we are trading assets to get the core more veteran help. That is when things start to get interesting from a team building standpoint.

It feels like something is going to have to give regarding our SG's. If we stay the course next year our current SG lineup is:

RJ
Dick
Agbaji
Walter

Our current backup PF/C lineup is:

Mogbo

Things cannot remain that way if we are actually trying to make the playoffs. Even looking that mock drafts a lot of the players in our range could get minutes at SG (Harper, Edgecomb, Johnson, Jakucionis). If we end up with any of those guys it creates an even bigger guard logjam. Even if we draft a big they will almost assuredly not be heavy minute rotation ready like we will probably need to fill the front court holes for a playoff push.

Obviously there is the possibility of going over the tax and signing a big but I still believe this will lead to having to move some player (probably a guard) to avoid the tax at the end of the season (I have little confidence MLSE will pay the tax for the 7th/8th seed.

We could really use a young guard for young big swap.

Agreed. If we're looking to avoid the tax, then RJ with his bigger salary may be the odd man out. Plus the FO seems to never mention his name when talking about the core players.

A Gradey Lively swap of some sort would be great, but I don't think Dallas does it. Then again, I didn't see them doing a Luka trade, so what do I know.

[ArthurVandelay]

I’m fine with taking L’s for the sake of the pick but we got to be realistic, the tank is over. To me Flagg and Harper are the only potential stars and we’re not getting a top 2 pick unless we luck or anyway so i’m fine with whatever wins come. I’d rather have Ingram than Ace Bailey who’s upside is like Ingram 5 years down the line. So just play it out, build chemistry and draft the best player available.

And there was some discussion about Porzingis. He’s like the ideal fit everywhere and you get why he had so much hype early on in NY. Floor spacer, lob threat, rim protection. But of course he has always had issues staying healthy so it is what it is.

We definitely need more big man depth next year, even if we retain Boucher. Maybe thru the draft but more likely in a move involving one of our SG’s (RJ, Gradey or Ochai.)

Yup. This is where we are at.

I actually can't wait to get to the phase where we are trading assets to get the core more veteran help. That is when things start to get interesting from a team building standpoint.

It feels like something is going to have to give regarding our SG's. If we stay the course next year our current SG lineup is:

RJ
Dick
Agbaji
Walter

Our current backup PF/C lineup is:

Mogbo

Things cannot remain that way if we are actually trying to make the playoffs. Even looking that mock drafts a lot of the players in our range could get minutes at SG (Harper, Edgecomb, Johnson, Jakucionis). If we end up with any of those guys it creates an even bigger guard logjam. Even if we draft a big they will almost assuredly not be heavy minute rotation ready like we will probably need to fill the front court holes for a playoff push.

Obviously there is the possibility of going over the tax and signing a big but I still believe this will lead to having to move some player (probably a guard) to avoid the tax at the end of the season (I have little confidence MLSE will pay the tax for the 7th/8th seed.

We could really use a young guard for young big swap.

Raptors need a legit back up C but one Dick trade I would do is Dick for Jovic.

I keep seeing Miami articles talking about he is a disappointment and doesn’t use his size.

One issue would be he only has one more season left on his rookie deal.

[ArthurVandelay]

Yup. This is where we are at.

I actually can't wait to get to the phase where we are trading assets to get the core more veteran help. That is when things start to get interesting from a team building standpoint.

It feels like something is going to have to give regarding our SG's. If we stay the course next year our current SG lineup is:

RJ
Dick
Agbaji
Walter

Our current backup PF/C lineup is:

Mogbo

Things cannot remain that way if we are actually trying to make the playoffs. Even looking that mock drafts a lot of the players in our range could get minutes at SG (Harper, Edgecomb, Johnson, Jakucionis). If we end up with any of those guys it creates an even bigger guard logjam. Even if we draft a big they will almost assuredly not be heavy minute rotation ready like we will probably need to fill the front court holes for a playoff push.

Obviously there is the possibility of going over the tax and signing a big but I still believe this will lead to having to move some player (probably a guard) to avoid the tax at the end of the season (I have little confidence MLSE will pay the tax for the 7th/8th seed.

We could really use a young guard for young big swap.

Agreed. If we're looking to avoid the tax, then RJ with his bigger salary may be the odd man out. Plus the FO seems to never mention his name when talking about the core players.

A Gradey Lively swap of some sort would be great, but I don't think Dallas does it. Then again, I didn't see them doing a Luka trade, so what do I know.

I can’t see Dick for Lively happening but I’d be fine with that if it did. Probably have to send second round pick(s) with Dick.

[LoveMyRaps]

Can we somehow combine Shead and Gradey into one player?

Gradey is such a pain in the ass to watch right now.

I feel like he wasn't even this bad defensively last year. But I kind of wiped out last year from my memory so idk.

Wow. Pessimism from even you. You support pretty much everyone.

Yeah, Gradey is hard to watch & easily my least favorite player to watch on the team. Give me Ochai, Wlater or Battle.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Gradey next season. With BI, Scottie, RJ & Quick taking the bulk of the shots, I can't see him having much of a role other than spot up shooter (which is what it should be).

Hopefully they don't tank whatever value he has as a prospect because they may need to move him to upgrade a position of need.

So far Gradey is reminding me a lot of Bargnani as a prospect. Inefficient scorer who can't defend, but is getting fed a ton of minutes because of his draft ranking.

Love Gradey. A lil extra cuz he's a former Jayhawk. But I do wish we held him more accountable and didn't give him such a long leash. I won't question the coaching staff and front office because they're the pros and I'm not. But I do believe Ochai is a far better player right now.

[MEDIC]

I’m fine with taking L’s for the sake of the pick but we got to be realistic, the tank is over. To me Flagg and Harper are the only potential stars and we’re not getting a top 2 pick unless we luck or anyway so i’m fine with whatever wins come. I’d rather have Ingram than Ace Bailey who’s upside is like Ingram 5 years down the line. So just play it out, build chemistry and draft the best player available.

And there was some discussion about Porzingis. He’s like the ideal fit everywhere and you get why he had so much hype early on in NY. Floor spacer, lob threat, rim protection. But of course he has always had issues staying healthy so it is what it is.

We definitely need more big man depth next year, even if we retain Boucher. Maybe thru the draft but more likely in a move involving one of our SG’s (RJ, Gradey or Ochai.)

Yup. This is where we are at.

I actually can't wait to get to the phase where we are trading assets to get the core more veteran help. That is when things start to get interesting from a team building standpoint.

It feels like something is going to have to give regarding our SG's. If we stay the course next year our current SG lineup is:

RJ
Dick
Agbaji
Walter

Our current backup PF/C lineup is:

Mogbo

Things cannot remain that way if we are actually trying to make the playoffs. Even looking that mock drafts a lot of the players in our range could get minutes at SG (Harper, Edgecomb, Johnson, Jakucionis). If we end up with any of those guys it creates an even bigger guard logjam. Even if we draft a big they will almost assuredly not be heavy minute rotation ready like we will probably need to fill the front court holes for a playoff push.

Obviously there is the possibility of going over the tax and signing a big but I still believe this will lead to having to move some player (probably a guard) to avoid the tax at the end of the season (I have little confidence MLSE will pay the tax for the 7th/8th seed.

We could really use a young guard for young big swap.

I really like Tre Johnson if we aren't in the top 4, but man.....do we really need another SG?

This might be a siuation where we go with need (big man) unless there is someone available that the FO thinks has superstar potential.

I also don't want to add anyone to the roster that compromises the defense.

[Indeed]

The stretch 5 advantage was really shown today. If we can remove the biggest interior defender on the other team from the paint it makes Barnes unstoppable. I hope we look into that going forward in the off-season.

Didn't we try that with Boucher and Olynyk with Barnes?
The lineup was mixed offensively (and let's not include the defense), the ORtg was not better than league average.

That lineup played a whomping 107 minutes together, and had a +11.0NRTG and had a ORTG equal to the 13th place TWolves.

And that is with Boucher who is not even a plus spacer.

Barnes at the 4 with a shooting 5 undoubtfully would be a net benefit to him and the offense. Those guys are rare and expensive however.

These are all the shots from the Olynyk-Boucher-Barnes lineup
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*barnes&CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGA&GROUP_ID=-203482-1628449-1630567-&GameID=&GroupID=-203482-1628449-1630567-&PlayerID=0&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612761&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

I have to disagree with you on, Boucher shot pretty well from 3, but the initiator is less than half created by Barnes. There might be some ended in shooting fouls, but also there are transition basket that has nothing to do with needing shooters around him. His main offense is fadaway or turnaround jumpshot.

[YogurtProducer]

Didn't we try that with Boucher and Olynyk with Barnes?
The lineup was mixed offensively (and let's not include the defense), the ORtg was not better than league average.

That lineup played a whomping 107 minutes together, and had a +11.0NRTG and had a ORTG equal to the 13th place TWolves.

And that is with Boucher who is not even a plus spacer.

Barnes at the 4 with a shooting 5 undoubtfully would be a net benefit to him and the offense. Those guys are rare and expensive however.

These are all the shots from the Olynyk-Boucher-Barnes lineup
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*barnes&CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGA&GROUP_ID=-203482-1628449-1630567-&GameID=&GroupID=-203482-1628449-1630567-&PlayerID=0&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612761&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

I have to disagree with you on, Boucher shot pretty well from 3, but the initiator is less than half created by Barnes. There might be some ended in shooting fouls, but also there are transition basket that has nothing to do with needing shooters around him. His main offense is fadaway or turnaround jumpshot.

Nothing changes that this is an insanely small sample, and that Boucher is a below average shooter.

He doesn’t provide space on the floor for Barnes at all.

[LiSTWithLani]

Yup. This is where we are at.

I actually can't wait to get to the phase where we are trading assets to get the core more veteran help. That is when things start to get interesting from a team building standpoint.

It feels like something is going to have to give regarding our SG's. If we stay the course next year our current SG lineup is:

RJ
Dick
Agbaji
Walter

Our current backup PF/C lineup is:

Mogbo

Things cannot remain that way if we are actually trying to make the playoffs. Even looking that mock drafts a lot of the players in our range could get minutes at SG (Harper, Edgecomb, Johnson, Jakucionis). If we end up with any of those guys it creates an even bigger guard logjam. Even if we draft a big they will almost assuredly not be heavy minute rotation ready like we will probably need to fill the front court holes for a playoff push.

Obviously there is the possibility of going over the tax and signing a big but I still believe this will lead to having to move some player (probably a guard) to avoid the tax at the end of the season (I have little confidence MLSE will pay the tax for the 7th/8th seed.

We could really use a young guard for young big swap.

I really like Tre Johnson if we aren't in the top 4, but man.....do we really need another SG?

This might be a siuation where we go with need (big man) unless there is someone available that the FO thinks has superstar potential.

I also don't want to add anyone to the roster that compromises the defense.

From the moment I saw Khaman Maluach, I thought that he was destined to become a Raptor.

We will love his mobility and the fact that he plays within himself. If he works on his shooting, he could become a top player at his position. He could learn from Yak for the next few years before assuming the starting role.

With a proper project C that's playable from day one, I think that we can fine-tune things and grab a few more guys that fit the 6'9" vision. There will be someone that's happy to take on our SGs.

The only other position that I'm not so sure about is IQ. I feel like he could be a dynamite sixth man, but he's not being paid like it. On his contract, he's untradeable, I assume. If we fine-tune Scottie, maybe IQ fits as an off-guard PG/SG hybrid.

RJ doesn't seem like a SG to me, he's a SF in today's game, unless we're bullying people offensively, but he can't keep up with quick guards on defense and he can handle post guys with his strength.

I still like vision 6'9" and don't really understand what we're doing. I'd love to add a lengthy talent in addition to Ingram, so that we can play Barnes at the one, but that seems unlikely, unless we get the top pick.

Poeltl/ FA/ Chomche
Flagg/ Boucher/ Mogbo
Ingram/ Barrett/ Battle
Agbaji/ Dick/ Walter
Barnes/ Quickley/ Shead

That's a pipe dream, but that team could compete.

[ConSarnit]

Yup. This is where we are at.

I actually can't wait to get to the phase where we are trading assets to get the core more veteran help. That is when things start to get interesting from a team building standpoint.

It feels like something is going to have to give regarding our SG's. If we stay the course next year our current SG lineup is:

RJ
Dick
Agbaji
Walter

Our current backup PF/C lineup is:

Mogbo

Things cannot remain that way if we are actually trying to make the playoffs. Even looking that mock drafts a lot of the players in our range could get minutes at SG (Harper, Edgecomb, Johnson, Jakucionis). If we end up with any of those guys it creates an even bigger guard logjam. Even if we draft a big they will almost assuredly not be heavy minute rotation ready like we will probably need to fill the front court holes for a playoff push.

Obviously there is the possibility of going over the tax and signing a big but I still believe this will lead to having to move some player (probably a guard) to avoid the tax at the end of the season (I have little confidence MLSE will pay the tax for the 7th/8th seed.

We could really use a young guard for young big swap.

I really like Tre Johnson if we aren't in the top 4, but man.....do we really need another SG?

This might be a siuation where we go with need (big man) unless there is someone available that the FO thinks has superstar potential.

I also don't want to add anyone to the roster that compromises the defense.

We need to draft BPA regardless of position. No one on this roster is good enough that we need to be worried about drafting over them.

[MEDIC]

It feels like something is going to have to give regarding our SG's. If we stay the course next year our current SG lineup is:

RJ
Dick
Agbaji
Walter

Our current backup PF/C lineup is:

Mogbo

Things cannot remain that way if we are actually trying to make the playoffs. Even looking that mock drafts a lot of the players in our range could get minutes at SG (Harper, Edgecomb, Johnson, Jakucionis). If we end up with any of those guys it creates an even bigger guard logjam. Even if we draft a big they will almost assuredly not be heavy minute rotation ready like we will probably need to fill the front court holes for a playoff push.

Obviously there is the possibility of going over the tax and signing a big but I still believe this will lead to having to move some player (probably a guard) to avoid the tax at the end of the season (I have little confidence MLSE will pay the tax for the 7th/8th seed.

We could really use a young guard for young big swap.

I really like Tre Johnson if we aren't in the top 4, but man.....do we really need another SG?

This might be a siuation where we go with need (big man) unless there is someone available that the FO thinks has superstar potential.

I also don't want to add anyone to the roster that compromises the defense.

We need to draft BPA regardless of position. No one on this roster is good enough that we need to be worried about drafting over them.

If these isn't huge seperation between two prospects, I think you go with the one that you can give the most playing time to.

Do we draft Johnson & play him behind RJ, Gradey & Walter? Bit of a log jam.

Of course, if you see him as a future star, you draft him & trade a couple of those guys.