Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

[HomoSapien]

Giddey is having a very strong 3 game stretch and looks like the guy you want to have around rather than some 2nd round pick in the G League. that said, it's 3 games I still want to see what he ends up looking like between now and 3 games left in the season before I start to worry about what contract he rates. He's still part of a very large group of guards none of which has stood out above the rest all year.

It's been more than 3 games.

Strat, I’m interested. Did you hoop back in the day?

If so, what was your game like?

Always interested in your takes. You’re a hoops purist. I respect it.

[Jcool0]

It's been more than 3 games.

Strat, I’m interested. Did you hoop back in the day?

If so, what was your game like?

Always interested in your takes. You’re a hoops purist. I respect it.

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

[cocktailswith_2short]

Talk about stuffing the boxscore lol . Only 22 too ! Has years to get better .

[Infinity2152]

What's crazy is we should be super excited to have Giddey. We signed Caruso at a pretty low contract. Played great for us, injured a fair amount, traded as expiring. We get a 21 year old back who's top 10, probably top 5 in any draft the last 2-3 years. We get him at an extreme discount because he's coming off a bad season. After a short adjustment period, he's looking better than ever before. Skip what we have to pay him, we don't know that number yet. That's a huge talent acquisition for a 29 yr old bench player.

Just set another record in that Philly game. We got a kid setting multiple NBA records his first half season with us, and we're debating whether he has potential to be great or whether to let another team outbid us and take him if he cost "too much".

[sco]

What's crazy is we should be super excited to have Giddey. We signed Caruso at a pretty low contract. Played great for us, injured a fair amount, traded as expiring. We get a 21 year old back who's top 10, probably top 5 in any draft the last 2-3 years. We get him at an extreme discount because he's coming off a bad season. After a short adjustment period, he's looking better than ever before. Skip what we have to pay him, we don't know that number yet. That's a huge talent acquisition for a 29 yr old bench player.

You raise a good point. In this thread it's hard to parse who is flat out not happy having Giddey on the team because of his defensive and shooting issues, and who would be happy with if his price is below $X.

My perspective remains, that let's see how he finishes out the season. I've been emotionally burned by one or two month hot streaks that I mistook for sustainable levels of play before. Honestly, give me the recent performance from Giddey going forward for $30M over the early-season version for the MLE any day.

[Infinity2152]

What's crazy is we should be super excited to have Giddey. We signed Caruso at a pretty low contract. Played great for us, injured a fair amount, traded as expiring. We get a 21 year old back who's top 10, probably top 5 in any draft the last 2-3 years. We get him at an extreme discount because he's coming off a bad season. After a short adjustment period, he's looking better than ever before. Skip what we have to pay him, we don't know that number yet. That's a huge talent acquisition for a 29 yr old bench player.

You raise a good point. In this thread it's hard to parse who is flat out not happy having Giddey on the team because of his defensive and shooting issues, and who would be happy with if his price is below $X.

My perspective remains, that let's see how he finishes out the season. I've been emotionally burned by one or two month hot streaks that I mistook for sustainable levels of play before. Honestly, give me the recent performance from Giddey going forward for $30M over the early-season version for the MLE any day.

I've said it before, it's better for us if he's not "great" the rest of the season. Makes him much more affordable. He's shown what he can do at this ability level already, whether or not he sustains it for the next 20 games or so. Players go thru hot and cold streaks, but average players aren't having Giddey's season even in their best half season runs. Whether he's great in these last games should determine how much we offer, not whether we should keep him, imo.

Not certain about something with restricted free agents. If we offer him say 4 yrs/$80 mill Day 1 and he turns it down, are we still able to match any other contract he gets? Or does our offer remove the ability to match?

[Jcool0]

What's crazy is we should be super excited to have Giddey. We signed Caruso at a pretty low contract. Played great for us, injured a fair amount, traded as expiring. We get a 21 year old back who's top 10, probably top 5 in any draft the last 2-3 years. We get him at an extreme discount because he's coming off a bad season. After a short adjustment period, he's looking better than ever before. Skip what we have to pay him, we don't know that number yet. That's a huge talent acquisition for a 29 yr old bench player.

You raise a good point. In this thread it's hard to parse who is flat out not happy having Giddey on the team because of his defensive and shooting issues, and who would be happy with if his price is below $X.

My perspective remains, that let's see how he finishes out the season. I've been emotionally burned by one or two month hot streaks that I mistook for sustainable levels of play before. Honestly, give me the recent performance from Giddey going forward for $30M over the early-season version for the MLE any day.

I've said it before, it's better for us if he's not "great" the rest of the season. Makes him much more affordable. He's shown what he can do at this ability level already, whether or not he sustains it for the next 20 games or so. Players go thru hot and cold streaks, but average players aren't having Giddey's season even in their best half season runs. Whether he's great in these last games should determine how much we offer, not whether we should keep him, imo.

Not certain about something with restricted free agents. If we offer him say 4 yrs/$80 mill Day 1 and he turns it down, are we still able to match any other contract he gets? Or does our offer remove the ability to match?

They will resign him and fans should want that. Whether you think he is good or not. You will need him if you want any chance of trading for example Giannis. Because a package of Willams and White will get you laughed at.

[jnrjr79]

What's crazy is we should be super excited to have Giddey. We signed Caruso at a pretty low contract. Played great for us, injured a fair amount, traded as expiring. We get a 21 year old back who's top 10, probably top 5 in any draft the last 2-3 years. We get him at an extreme discount because he's coming off a bad season. After a short adjustment period, he's looking better than ever before. Skip what we have to pay him, we don't know that number yet. That's a huge talent acquisition for a 29 yr old bench player.

Just set another record in that Philly game. We got a kid setting multiple NBA records his first half season with us, and we're debating whether he has potential to be great or whether to let another team outbid us and take him if he cost "too much".

Yeah, I imagine the concern about Giddey would be a lot different if the difficult decision on whether to pay him wasn't coming after only having him for one season. If there were another year or two on his deal, people would probably just be universally happy about his recent performance.

[Infinity2152]

This is without doubt the best trade AK has made. Traded a 29 yr old expiring often injured player for a 21-year-old with a year left on rookie contract that's more talented and less injury history. It's the discount version of the Luka/AD trade except we didn't have to include a first to do it.

Yes, it's riskier to sign him after one season. But we'll have an entire season, that has to be enough. The cost to re-sign him after a season and a half could end up much higher if he's great. Like I think he will be and AK might too. So pay him $25-30 AAV mill now or pay him $40-$50 AAV after an extra season. Barnes got $44 mill, a better Giddey with a larger cap in a year certainly might. There's risk either way. We re-sign White after year 5, we pay more. Re-sign Pat after year 5, pay less.

[kodo]

This is without doubt the best trade AK has made. Traded a 29 yr old expiring often injured player for a 21-year-old with a year left on rookie contract that's more talented and less injury history. It's the discount version of the Luka/AD trade except we didn't have to include a first to do it.

It was a good trade given the options.

Option 1: Let Caruso walk for nothing in UFA this summer
Option 2: NY's 1st round pick in 2024, which ended up being Pacome Dadiet. Averaging 1.9 ppg on 33% FG.
Option 3: instead of NY's pick, trade for Giddey

AK held on to Caruso too long and all the draft covering reporters said since AK didn't trade him at the 2024 deadline, teams were miffed they were only going to get 1 playoffs out of AC instead of 2, so they consequently halved their offers. And the better the team, the less they need AC to win. He's a 7th/8th in the rotation in OKC, and when Chet plays he's sometimes 9th on the rotation.

KC confirmed he never heard of a good (top 10) pick for AC to take instead of Giddey...he thought the fans valuation of AC was much higher than what was being offered because AC was an upcoming UFA.

[dougthonus]

Option 1: Let Caruso walk for nothing in UFA this summer
Option 2: NY's 1st round pick in 2024, which ended up being Pacome Dadiet. Averaging 1.9 ppg on 33% FG.
Option 3: instead of NY's pick, trade for Giddey

The Kings offered pick #13 for Caruso, and NYK was apparently offering two 1st rounders (#24 and #25).

From a talent perspective Giddey offers the most value pretty obviously. From a team building perspective, it's a lot more complicated based on your holistic plan, and I think either Giddey or #13 are both reasonable answers to the question.

[Infinity2152]

Seem to remember a lot of people mad we couldn't get Giddey plus a first or picks for Caruso not so long ago.

[Ice Man]

From a talent perspective Giddey offers the most value pretty obviously. From a team building perspective, it's a lot more complicated based on your wholistic plan, and I think either Giddey or #13 are both reasonable answers to the question.

I preferred Giddey to a #13 pick. Was that the right call? Hmmm. In the past 20 years, there have only been 3 #13 picks who interest me -- Zach, Booker, and Mitchell. (Perhaps Tyler Herro belongs on this list, but until this season he wasn't a good player -- a high volume scorer on meh efficiency who didn't defend.) So I figured that Giddey would likely be better than most #13 picks. Which is true. But maybe it would have been worth taking the pick, for the slim chance of landing a guy with an even higher ceiling than Giddey, such as Mitchell.

[Chi town]

Can’t wait to see how Giddey plays and adjusts as teams key on him, blitz him in PNR, and stay with him at the 3pt line. His elite IQ and competition edge will be fun to see how he responds.

DET ate him alive with their physical D in the first game. He played better 2nd game.

[Jcool0]

This is without doubt the best trade AK has made. Traded a 29 yr old expiring often injured player for a 21-year-old with a year left on rookie contract that's more talented and less injury history. It's the discount version of the Luka/AD trade except we didn't have to include a first to do it.

It was a good trade given the options.

Option 1: Let Caruso walk for nothing in UFA this summer
Option 2: NY's 1st round pick in 2024, which ended up being Pacome Dadiet. Averaging 1.9 ppg on 33% FG.
Option 3: instead of NY's pick, trade for Giddey

AK held on to Caruso too long and all the draft covering reporters said since AK didn't trade him at the 2024 deadline, teams were miffed they were only going to get 1 playoffs out of AC instead of 2, so they consequently halved their offers. And the better the team, the less they need AC to win. He's a 7th/8th in the rotation in OKC, and when Chet plays he's sometimes 9th on the rotation.

KC confirmed he never heard of a good (top 10) pick for AC to take instead of Giddey...he thought the fans valuation of AC was much higher than what was being offered because AC was an upcoming UFA.

Caruso has already missed 21 games this year.

[Infinity2152]

Can’t wait to see how Giddey plays and adjusts as teams key on him, blitz him in PNR, and stay with him at the 3pt line. His elite IQ and competition edge will be fun to see how he responds.

DET ate him alive with their physical D in the first game. He played better 2nd game.

This is the type of thing I'm talking about too. Outside of stats, some guys are just great at basketball. Always trying to attack, hustling, rebounding, scrapping 40 minutes, bringing a different energy level. When it comes down to it, it's 5 NBA ball players vs 5 players. Everybody's talented in the league, there are no scrubs. Some disappear in games, some like Caruso and Butler can provide outsized impact with hustle. Neither is physically dominant, especially long wingspan, etc. Giddey's young, but he hustles, plays hard, and gets how to play basketball. He's a baller who's going to produce numbers on any team if he gets minutes.

Don't care what anybody says, competing against grown men starting at 19 and 20 is crazy hard just from a physical and experience perspective. They're all way stronger than you are, even the skinny ones. Most guys who get in the league that young are outstanding athletes, often physical freaks like Lebron and KG, D Rose, Dwight Howard so it's a little easier.

[dougthonus]

From a talent perspective Giddey offers the most value pretty obviously. From a team building perspective, it's a lot more complicated based on your wholistic plan, and I think either Giddey or #13 are both reasonable answers to the question.

I preferred Giddey to a #13 pick. Was that the right call? Hmmm. In the past 20 years, there have only been 3 #13 picks who interest me -- Zach, Booker, and Mitchell. (Perhaps Tyler Herro belongs on this list, but until this season he wasn't a good player -- a high volume scorer on meh efficiency who didn't defend.) So I figured that Giddey would likely be better than most #13 picks. Which is true. But maybe it would have been worth taking the pick, for the slim chance of landing a guy with an even higher ceiling than Giddey, such as Mitchell.

Yeah, I think really depends if you are doing a tear down or not. Giddey is clearly far more likely to be better than the #13 pick, especially in a weak draft, but his contract situation and timeline factor in differently depending what your go forward strategy is.

[PJSteven22]

This is without doubt the best trade AK has made. Traded a 29 yr old expiring often injured player for a 21-year-old with a year left on rookie contract that's more talented and less injury history. It's the discount version of the Luka/AD trade except we didn't have to include a first to do it.

It was a good trade given the options.

Option 1: Let Caruso walk for nothing in UFA this summer
Option 2: NY's 1st round pick in 2024, which ended up being Pacome Dadiet. Averaging 1.9 ppg on 33% FG.
Option 3: instead of NY's pick, trade for Giddey

AK held on to Caruso too long and all the draft covering reporters said since AK didn't trade him at the 2024 deadline, teams were miffed they were only going to get 1 playoffs out of AC instead of 2, so they consequently halved their offers. And the better the team, the less they need AC to win. He's a 7th/8th in the rotation in OKC, and when Chet plays he's sometimes 9th on the rotation.

KC confirmed he never heard of a good (top 10) pick for AC to take instead of Giddey...he thought the fans valuation of AC was much higher than what was being offered because AC was an upcoming UFA.

You’re leaving out another option which was trading him for the 13th pick. They didn’t necessarily have to take Pacome Dadiet. Jaylen Wells was still there and Isaiah Collier was too. Y’all letting this clowns off the hook again.

[Infinity2152]

From a talent perspective Giddey offers the most value pretty obviously. From a team building perspective, it's a lot more complicated based on your wholistic plan, and I think either Giddey or #13 are both reasonable answers to the question.

I preferred Giddey to a #13 pick. Was that the right call? Hmmm. In the past 20 years, there have only been 3 #13 picks who interest me -- Zach, Booker, and Mitchell. (Perhaps Tyler Herro belongs on this list, but until this season he wasn't a good player -- a high volume scorer on meh efficiency who didn't defend.) So I figured that Giddey would likely be better than most #13 picks. Which is true. But maybe it would have been worth taking the pick, for the slim chance of landing a guy with an even higher ceiling than Giddey, such as Mitchell.

Yeah, I think really depends if you are doing a tear down or not. Giddey is clearly far more likely to be better than the #13 pick, especially in a weak draft, but his contract situation and timeline factor in differently depending what your go forward strategy is.

And there's the crux. In many ways, Giddey could be considered a top pick in the last draft we got for Caruso considering his age. Main difference is we lost three guaranteed years at rookie rate. You run into similar problems when you sign a second round pick and they break out. Jokic was making $25 mill in year 4. Not comparing them as players, but the situation of getting big money in less than 4 years.

At this point, you could consider him a successful young high draft pick you have to pay a little early. He could possibly earn much more if he's an unrestricted FA in 2026.