Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[shrink]

I heard Keith Smith talking about Jake Fischer’s piece, that the Wolves contacted teams to try to get under the second apron to make a Durant trade. He suggested Durant for Randle, DDV, Jaden, and maybe the DET pick. I think KD is still a top 10 player in the league, but that’s too rich for me.

He also mentioned that if the new owners are trying to cut payroll, it wouldn’t be hard to get off of Julius Randle is he opts in, suggesting BRK might take him straight up (or with a prospect) for cap space. Randle isn’t a bad player, and he’d be an expiring so the Nets could keep their cap space available for 2026 which could have a much better set of free agents available.

[winforlose]

I heard Keith Smith talking about Jake Fischer’s piece, that the Wolves contacted teams to try to get under the second apron to make a Durant trade. He suggested Durant for Randle, DDV, Jaden, and maybe the DET pick. I think KD is still a top 10 player in the league, but that’s too rich for me.

He also mentioned that if the new owners are trying to cut payroll, it wouldn’t be hard to get off of Julius Randle is he opts in, suggesting BRK might take him straight up (or with a prospect) for cap space. Randle isn’t a bad player, and he’d be an expiring so the Nets could keep their cap space available for 2026 which could have a much better set of free agents available.

We all have been assuming that new ownership is fine being in the first apron. If they are not, then this team (not the franchise, but the team we have put around Ant,) is doomed. A serious reduction in cost leading to a serious reduction in talent and performance will drive Ant out the door. Between KG and KD both telling Ant not to stick around if we are not serious about contending I don’t think you can blame Ant for leaving. Once that happens the new arena is more likely DOA than smooth sailing. ALORE have one of the top 5 golden geese in the NBA. It is not enough to pay to keep him happy. You have to pay to maximize the ways that goose lays the golden eggs.

[wolves_89]

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[wolves_89]

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[shangrila]

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Would have preferred a longer deal to lock him in for cheap but so be it

EDIT: Re-reading it, does that include this year? So he's basically only signed for another year after this season?

[shangrila]

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Ew. Hyland sucks

[winforlose]

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Ew. Hyland sucks

After I saw this I did some searching. According to the source below it is a 2 year fully guaranteed standard (presumably minimum deal.) Notice this is not a Hinkie meaning we don’t get the option years, we don’t get the extra two cheap years, but I believe we keep his RFA rights (4 years of service.)

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/3227709/wolves-converting-clark-to-standard-deal-signing-hyland-to-2-way-contract

[wolves_89]

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I think the big things with respect to the Clark signing are that he will be a RFA in 2026 and he will have been with the team for 3 years (to get Bird Rights).

[winforlose]

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I think the big things with respect to the Clark signing are that he will be a RFA in 2026 and he will have been with the team for 3 years (to get Bird Rights).

Do bird rights accrue as a two way?

[wolves_89]

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I think the big things with respect to the Clark signing are that he will be a RFA in 2026 and he will have been with the team for 3 years (to get Bird Rights).

Do bird rights accrue as a two way?

I'm not 100% positive, but I remember reading that they do.

[BlacJacMac]

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I think the big things with respect to the Clark signing are that he will be a RFA in 2026 and he will have been with the team for 3 years (to get Bird Rights).

Do bird rights accrue as a two way?

Looks like it:

Players on two-way contracts accumulate Bird rights in the same way that players on standard contracts do. Magic forward Admiral Schofield has been under contract with Orlando on various two-way and standard deals in each of the past three seasons, so if he remains on his current two-way deal through the end of 2023/24, he’ll have full Bird rights this summer.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/03/hoops-rumors-glossary-bird-rights-6.html

[frankenwolf]

You keep trying to compare apples to oranges and you fail to recognize the undeniable truth. KD is not a free agent. This is not a CP3 to Spurs type situation. Giving up valuable assets and losing other players as a result (Naz, NAW, a player we draft,) has long term negative effects. Likewise KD is a short term player (best case he plays 3 years with us.) But Ant, Jaden, and Naz on a longer timeline. The best strategy is to build as best we can around them. That does not include selling low on Dilly. NAW, and a decent first. It means getting guys who are likely to be here in 3 or 4 years who will have continuity and fit.

So basically....it's like the Gobert trade. Connelly was lambasted for the trade for two years, with people saying the would never get past the first round and others saying they undersold Walker Kessler and helped create a dynasty in Utah. How do those thoughts sound today? Would you rather swap situations with Utah? Look at all that "POTENTIAL"!

Picks are not only valuable for the players they draft. They can be used to get vets. For two firsts we could have Dejounte Murray. There are of course other players, but the example works. Also there is a straight line between the Gobert trade and the KAT trade. If we don’t make the former we don’t make the latter. Personally if you add Karl for DDV, Randle, and a 1st I think the price goes from bad (we overpaid for Gobert,) to insane. KD is also worse than Gobert because while Gobert had potentially 5-6 years of value to us or at least resale value. KD has at best 2-3 years of use to us with no resale value. Meanwhile if Dilly or the first we pass on blow up that is player talent that Ant, Jaden, and Naz won’t have to help them in 3 years and beyond. You both don’t think we should go championship or bust and think we should make a short term trade with serious long term consequences. Ironically that is why we made the Gobert trade, and all it cost us was KAT, all our picks, a bad salary situation, and the possibility of losing Ant if this **** goes any further sideways.

I would not say that the Gobert trade is a straight line to the KAT trade. There was a huge bump in the middle called a CBA change which clamped down HARD on over 2nd apron teams. If they had known this was coming in such a severe form, I don't know that they make the Gobert trade.

Edit: I did see that you later referenced the 2nd apron problem.

[frankenwolf]

I am not at all enamored with KD. He will be 37 at the start of next season and I do not see that he raises the ceiling of the Timberwolves to championship level. I believe we will be ahead to keep our team together as is, adding another big body to back up or learn from Rudy. Mortgaging the long term for a short term bump is not advisable, especially since we have a few, poor, draft picks.

[Neeva]

I am not at all enamored with KD. He will be 37 at the start of next season and I do not see that he raises the ceiling of the Timberwolves to championship level. I believe we will be ahead to keep our team together as is, adding another big body to back up or learn from Rudy. Mortgaging the long term for a short term bump is not advisable, especially since we have a few, poor, draft picks.

I know Ant idolizes him but he did not elevate Phoenix to contenders, what makes some wolves fans think he can do that here?

[shrink]

Ew. Hyland sucks

Great - we really need another guard!

Connelly loves his guys. Sometimes irrationally.

[Mattya]

I am not at all enamored with KD. He will be 37 at the start of next season and I do not see that he raises the ceiling of the Timberwolves to championship level. I believe we will be ahead to keep our team together as is, adding another big body to back up or learn from Rudy. Mortgaging the long term for a short term bump is not advisable, especially since we have a few, poor, draft picks.

I know Ant idolizes him but he did not elevate Phoenix to contenders, what makes some wolves fans think he can do that here?

I’d like to know why KD not elevating the suns to the championship was KD’s fault?

[BlacJacMac]

Ew. Hyland sucks

Great - we really need another guard!

Connelly loves his guys. Sometimes irrationally.

This might be a combination of a favor to Bones and because Iowa lost all their guards to the big club.

[shrink]

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I think the big things with respect to the Clark signing are that he will be a RFA in 2026 and he will have been with the team for 3 years (to get Bird Rights).

Any player coming off a two-way is also an RFA.

But if we give him an NBA contract, we need three years of service for him to be an RFA. Hence the two year deal.

I will also add this deal can’t be extended. Deals have to be three years to get extended (like NAW, or Naz if he declines PO).

[winforlose]

So basically....it's like the Gobert trade. Connelly was lambasted for the trade for two years, with people saying the would never get past the first round and others saying they undersold Walker Kessler and helped create a dynasty in Utah. How do those thoughts sound today? Would you rather swap situations with Utah? Look at all that "POTENTIAL"!

Picks are not only valuable for the players they draft. They can be used to get vets. For two firsts we could have Dejounte Murray. There are of course other players, but the example works. Also there is a straight line between the Gobert trade and the KAT trade. If we don’t make the former we don’t make the latter. Personally if you add Karl for DDV, Randle, and a 1st I think the price goes from bad (we overpaid for Gobert,) to insane. KD is also worse than Gobert because while Gobert had potentially 5-6 years of value to us or at least resale value. KD has at best 2-3 years of use to us with no resale value. Meanwhile if Dilly or the first we pass on blow up that is player talent that Ant, Jaden, and Naz won’t have to help them in 3 years and beyond. You both don’t think we should go championship or bust and think we should make a short term trade with serious long term consequences. Ironically that is why we made the Gobert trade, and all it cost us was KAT, all our picks, a bad salary situation, and the possibility of losing Ant if this **** goes any further sideways.

I would not say that the Gobert trade is a straight line to the KAT trade. There was a huge bump in the middle called a CBA change which clamped down HARD on over 2nd apron teams. If they had known this was coming in such a severe form, I don't know that they make the Gobert trade.

Edit: I did see that you later referenced the 2nd apron problem.

My problem with the 2nd apron argument is that the writing was on the wall before it is was on paper. League owners were looking to get extra punitive to stop the GSW super spending nonsense. You are driving at 100 MPH at night with no lights on, you might not see what you hit but you know you are gonna hit something.

[WolfAddict]

I am not at all enamored with KD. He will be 37 at the start of next season and I do not see that he raises the ceiling of the Timberwolves to championship level. I believe we will be ahead to keep our team together as is, adding another big body to back up or learn from Rudy. Mortgaging the long term for a short term bump is not advisable, especially since we have a few, poor, draft picks.

I know Ant idolizes him but he did not elevate Phoenix to contenders, what makes some wolves fans think he can do that here?

I’d like to know why KD not elevating the suns to the championship was KD’s fault?

He didn't say championship, contenders.

Not just on KD, but why would it be different here? Add to that, the lower end talent we'd have to give up would kill our future (imo).

So I agree with Neeva to a certain degree. Bringing in KD does not automatically elevate our team to genuine contenders. Given his past attempts at doing this have not gone the best, I'd be hesitant to have HIGH hopes.