Where does the myth of physical 90s NBA basketball come from?

[Tim Lehrbach]

You'd be annoyed too if you saw the game get soft as charmin after cherishing the aggression and tenacity behind
quality defense instead of players just trying to avoid contact.

Plenty of us grew up or were adults watching 90s basketball and aren't painfully romantic about it. I cherish my early memories of watching 90s NBA, but I accept and appreciate the evolution of the sport. It's a more sophisticated, athletic, and skillful game now. I wish there were fewer threes, but its relative value to difficulty is arguably a flaw in the sport that's been there since the line was introduced, not the fault of the players and staff who learned to exploit it.

[ScrantonBulls]

Another quality thread.
There is so much coping from Lebron fans lately.

It's OKAY... he's still an all time great.

And yes, the 90s were more physical, the lane was more packed and there
were less three pointers, nothing keeping bigs from camping near the rim to block perimeter players and way more action from big scorers than perimeter players. There's a green light for jacking up threes as well, which we haven't had in the 90s.

That's something that you'll have to deal with. It's ridiculous to think that we just fabricated this when
all of the players talk about it. Get annoyed all that you want, but the truth is the truth.

You'd be annoyed too if you saw the game get soft as charmin after cherishing the aggression and tenacity behind
quality defense instead of players just trying to avoid contact.

You'd also get annoyed if the commissioner purposefully created rules to make scoring accessible, stating so himself, and then
watched players get easy layups. It annoyed the hell out of me. Now, I just don't care to watch as often.

It annoys us because we used to love the game and it looks more like a mockery at times, like it or not.
That's our perspective. Once again- you can deal with it. That's the "myth"

What is it like being proven wrong on a consistent basis on these views, and then convincing yourself that it never happened and/or everybody else is wrong but you?

[Ainosterhaspie]

you think players weren't flopping in the 90s? lol

No, not even close to the same level that it's happening now. Vlade was the only one that was really doing it back then.

There was so much more off the ball physical contact that happened in the early 90s .... today players flop when they get bumped running across the lane or over exaggerate the contact. Also, so much more post up ball that allowed a ton more physical contact. Today you can't touch a shooter and early 90s you could have a forearm shoved into a player on the perimeter.

Watch on YouTube

This whole video shows the bolded is at best a wild exageration. 1:07 in particular is a good example of the whole "you can't handcheck" talking point being a pure myth.

Watch on YouTube

Very obvious ealxamples here from just a few minutes of one game.

Watch on YouTube

[TheGeneral99]

The myth comes from disgruntled former NBA players who are jealous of modern NBA players and feel the need to put them down to glorify themselves and their era.

I mean look at a guy like Gilbert Arenas who was a nice scorer in his short-lived 3 year prime, but was a career loser, horrible teammate and bad leader who was selfish, awful defensively, never made it past the 1st round and ruined his franchise for years based on his shenanigans. Now he has a podcast on YouTube and acts like he was Kobe level and makes horrible hot takes about current NBA players on a constant basis. He has a big fan base who believe his myths and revisionist history.

Fans also tend to analyze the 1990s NBA by only looking at the top players and top player highlights while ignoring that most of the teams were pretty bad. Yeah the Bulls, the Suns, the Jazz, the Spurs, the Sonics, the Rockets etc. were great teams, but there were so many bad teams with players that wouldn't make the NBA today.

The good thing is guys like LBJ, Steph, Durant etc. realize this and have said they won't trash the current NBA players like their predecessors...that should be good going forward.

[Yoshun]

It was more physical, but that's not necessary a good thing.

When you can't play zone and you're forced to man up, you need to hand check, push, etc.. Allowing zones, hand checking, changes in flagrant foul rules, etc... changed the game. The NBA wanted to increase scoring, they were successful. That's not a bad thing. What came along with it was a more diverse player pool, analytics, more sophisticated offensive and defensive schemes, etc... Obviously there were other factors involved but the end of "bully ball" wasn't bad.

[bmurph128]

The answer is simple and obvious: Michael Jordan.

No athlete had ever achieved the fame that Jordan did. On top of that, you had the PERFECT amount of exposition - games were on TV, and there was some media coverage. Sportscenter was an actual thing back then and really came into its own as well. The shoes, the dream team, playing baseball and then coming back - we have never seen anything like that and likely never will again. But there was no social media, and while the internet was becoming a thing, it wasn't close to what it is today.

Jordan's peak level of fame coincided with the 90s and what came with it (the above) - other NBA players? They just benefitted from Jordan being around, and because we all associate Jordan with the 90s and he is unquestionably one of the greatest athletes to walk this planet, there is just a positive association a lot of us have.

The truth is....you can see how Reggie Miller was a good player, but what would he be in todays game? Honestly? Really be honest with yourself about that. I would have to go back and watch highlights of him, but I don't remember him being a great finisher at the rim. I remember him being incredible at coming off screens and being able to knock down jump shots, I remember him putting in serious effort on defense and being a competitor - so are we talking about a very slightly better version of Klay Thompson there? If we are being painfully honest, that could be the case.

Nothing against Reggie - he was ahead of his time back then. But...to me that is an example of how glorify the 90s.

Not sure what point you're making about Reggie... he was only a 5x All-Star and 3x All-NBA player. He wasn't considered a superstar in his own time, or even now. He's exactly like a Klay Thompson-level player, that's not an insult to either player. He's known for playing for one team his entire career, being very clutch, and setting the 3-pt record. All of that would have been true regardless of Jordan.

It speaks to how weak the 90s actually were.

This is just one random list, but gives you an idea:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1342439-legends-of-the-nba-25-best-players-of-the-90s

Reggie was the 4th best wing after Jordan/Pippen/Drexler on this list. That is pretty wild, even if someone has a differing opinion, there aren't a ton of options to put ahead of him

[Xatticus]

This is such a stupid thread.

Can we please sticky an era comp thread to cut down on the clutter from the same posters constantly creating new threads?

[52-12-7]

This is such a stupid thread.

Can we please sticky an era comp thread to cut down on the clutter from the same posters constantly creating new threads?

It's always the same lebron paid shill. Dude has no life

[liquidswords]

nostalgia is a bitch

[JRoy]

Because the 90s didn’t have the Trae Young, Brunson type flopping that we see in today game.

you think players weren't flopping in the 90s? lol

Not like today.

Flopping like sniper victims.

Disgusting.

[CIN-C-STAR]

I mean, it was a bit more physical on defense.
Probably has been mythologized a bit too, but I don’t know why people are so defensive about it. You can just look at specific rule changes and/or comments from the commissioner and see that specific steps have been taken to favor scoring and reduce physical defense.
At the same time there is still physicality in the game today. It clearly ratchets up in the playoffs, and I’d say the last 10 or 15 years could be described as “the most physical offensive period in league history”. Players with the ball are now being rewarded for initiating contact like never before, leading to offensive players looking for contact more than ever before.
So it’s still a physical game just in different ways.

[Chanel Bomber]

The game is better today.

But the NBA was clearly more physical in the 90s than it is now, particularly in the Eastern Conference.

More contact in the paint, more intimidation, fewer flagrants and technicals. Even if it's overstated by some, the game had a higher level of toughness and physicality.

[Optms]

Because the 90s didn’t have the Trae Young, Brunson type flopping that we see in today game.

you think players weren't flopping in the 90s? lol

No, not even close to the same level that it's happening now. Vlade was the only one that was really doing it back then.

This man knows. And even someone like Vlade would be put to shame by the flopping of today. Flopping is definitely more skilled today.

[Art Vandelay]

Some reasons it was seen as more physical:

More post play. Few guys today back down in the post anymore. In the 90s, MJ, Barkley, Admiral, Ewing, and other superstars made their living off backing down from about 15 feet away. I notice that people perceive that as more physical, probably due to the body-to-body contact that has become less common these days. And fewer of these players flopped offensively to draw fouls while playing in the post, which viewers (self included, I admit) see as soft.

More hand checking. The rule changed in 2004, when defense on the perimeter got a bit softer. There were actually more fouls called back then, funny enough -- 22.7 fouls per team/per game in the 90s vs 19.6 now. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-league-average-personal-fouls-per-game-by-decade -- But having the hand check rules allowed guards like Muggsy, Mookie, MJ, Glove, and Stockton to play much more physically on the perimeter, even if they also got penalized more than guards do nowadays.

Rodman being Rodman. He made every game he played in, many of which were transmitted across the world, feel like a wrestling match.

Knicks vs. Pacers, Knicks vs Bulls. Dale Davis, Charles Oakley, Horace Grant, Scottie Pippen all went at it. These were big series played on a major network.

The premiere of Shaq dragging his boys across every center's face, also getting fouled hard without the refs knowing how to call the game. That led to defensive rules changing, allowing more zone defense to be played in the NBA, which reduced defensive contact.

Zo, especially on the Heat. Mutombo, on the Nuggs and Hawks. Games they played in felt more physical because they were all physical specimens who imposed their will. You could say the same about the Admiral.

All those things. But also, it was a game with less spacing than today's game. Players were closer together, contact happened more often without whistles. Flagrant fouls weren't punished as severely as they were in later years, especially post-Malice, meaning there was more incentive to foul the hell out of players driving to the hoop. That likely lead to more violent fouls at the rim, but also likely incentivized players to take more mid-range jumpers.

TL DR: The 90s game wasn't necessarily more physical -- guys today are superb athletes and any star today would do just fine in the 90s -- but it was a game with more contact allowed, more post play, less spacing, and more big-man dominance.

[Dick Tate]

"I watched some games from the 90s"

[sashaturiaf]

This is such a stupid thread.

Can we please sticky an era comp thread to cut down on the clutter from the same posters constantly creating new threads?

It's always the same lebron paid shill. Dude has no life

I agree it's extremely tiresome.

Just tell yourself this sort of content isn't aimed at you, but to people without a strong opinion on the topic whose views can be swayed by repeatedly being told something. If you're onto his schtick just ignore the posts

[An Unbiased Fan]

90s NBA was WAY more physical. The only people who don't believe it....didn't watch it.

But beyond that, why does modern fans always try to diss older generations to try and prop up today's NBA? Should it be able to stand on it's own? This endless need to say previous decades were weak just shows desperation.

[bledredwine]

Another quality thread.
There is so much coping from Lebron fans lately.

It's OKAY... he's still an all time great.

And yes, the 90s were more physical, the lane was more packed and there
were less three pointers, nothing keeping bigs from camping near the rim to block perimeter players and way more action from big scorers than perimeter players. There's a green light for jacking up threes as well, which we haven't had in the 90s.

That's something that you'll have to deal with. It's ridiculous to think that we just fabricated this when
all of the players talk about it. Get annoyed all that you want, but the truth is the truth.

You'd be annoyed too if you saw the game get soft as charmin after cherishing the aggression and tenacity behind
quality defense instead of players just trying to avoid contact.

You'd also get annoyed if the commissioner purposefully created rules to make scoring accessible, stating so himself, and then
watched players get easy layups. It annoyed the hell out of me. Now, I just don't care to watch as often.

It annoys us because we used to love the game and it looks more like a mockery at times, like it or not.
That's our perspective. Once again- you can deal with it. That's the "myth"

What is it like being proven wrong on a consistent basis on these views, and then convincing yourself that it never happened and/or everybody else is wrong but you?

What is it like knowing so little about basketball that you have nothing to say in reply to your original question and instead decide on shifting the topic to the poster himself instead?

What a joke you are.

And if you read the above replies, you'll start to know that your topics are seen that way as well.

[Quattro]

Probably the same place that the myth that todays basketball players are defensive savants comes from.

[52-12-7]

Another quality thread.
There is so much coping from Lebron fans lately.

It's OKAY... he's still an all time great.

And yes, the 90s were more physical, the lane was more packed and there
were less three pointers, nothing keeping bigs from camping near the rim to block perimeter players and way more action from big scorers than perimeter players. There's a green light for jacking up threes as well, which we haven't had in the 90s.

That's something that you'll have to deal with. It's ridiculous to think that we just fabricated this when
all of the players talk about it. Get annoyed all that you want, but the truth is the truth.

You'd be annoyed too if you saw the game get soft as charmin after cherishing the aggression and tenacity behind
quality defense instead of players just trying to avoid contact.

You'd also get annoyed if the commissioner purposefully created rules to make scoring accessible, stating so himself, and then
watched players get easy layups. It annoyed the hell out of me. Now, I just don't care to watch as often.

It annoys us because we used to love the game and it looks more like a mockery at times, like it or not.
That's our perspective. Once again- you can deal with it. That's the "myth"

What is it like being proven wrong on a consistent basis on these views, and then convincing yourself that it never happened and/or everybody else is wrong but you?

What is it like knowing so little about basketball that you have nothing to say in reply to your original question and instead decide on shifting the topic to the poster himself instead?

What a joke you are.

And if you read the above replies, you'll start to know that your topics are seen that way as well.

You are living rent free in his brain.