Zach Collins discussion thread

[sco]

I thought his recent play warranted a separate thread.

He was a guy who I had wanted, back in his POR days. Previously, I saw him as more PF than C, but he's 6'11 250. He's had durability issues, but played 69 games last season (and 63 the year before). He's only 27. He seems to be a solid rebounder and passer. He's a below average 3pt shooter, but did shoot over 36% one year (on low volume). He seems to be a better defender than Vuc, and doesn't need plays run for him.

I would be happy with a time share between him and Smith next season at C.

Your thoughts?

[HomoSapien]

I also sort of liked him coming out of the draft. He is in the prime of his career, but we have seen a few centers recently figure things out later. Someone else said it perfectly in the game thread: if he can play like this, he's a good transitionary center after we dump Vuc -- which by the way, might be more likely if he keeps playing like this.

[Hangtime84]

He was looked at as the future starting c for Portland, but his problem was he kept getting hurt.

That also hurt his development at certain Patrick Williams comes to mind.

I would want a next season rotation of him and Smith getting the minutes at C and no Vuc on the team.

[WindyCityBorn]

Looks like a more than capable stopgap. And he’s only 27 so he could be late blooming starter. Spurs saw something in him to give him that big contract.

I think he would start over Smith if Vuc is gone.

[MrSparkle]

I wouldn't read too much into his strong play. Spurs also liked him a lot, until they didn't. Very injury prone!

But yes, he's having a hot stretch in a dead stretch of schedule (FebruLauri), and he demonstrates Vuc's complete incompetence. Having a physical big crashing the glass and bullying around the paint, reading and reacting quickly on defense makes a huge difference.

I've repeated many times, a better defensive C would've made the Bulls of the last 4Y significantly better (legit playoff team, instead of a play-in dumpster fire). The Ayo/Coby/Pat core at times showed life, working very well defensively, and it would be quite a change to have a more active C.

Zach shows how useful PnR could be. All of a sudden we have movement to the rim, lots of cuts and easy baskets. Vuc's MO is pick-n-pop, a limp low-percentage midrange jumper. Defenses let him take it. That's supposed to be his strong side. Nevermind his weakness crashing the glass, switching onto guards, protecting the rim and even bodying up post-ups in isolation.

Again though, Zach's performing well above career norms in his Bulls stretch.

[kodo]

Issue wasn't just that he was hurt, he was also a bad defender (for a true center) back in POR. I guess that's not coming up as much here because our baseline is Vucevic. Jalen Smith was let go for the same reason, and similarly not really an issue here compared to Vuc.

He looks motivated like all 3 of our new acquisitions to improve their image here in Chicago in a fresh start, that's probably been the most important change.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Loved him in college. Yes the injuries have affected him over the years, but to put it simply, Zach is no scrub.

[League Circles]

He looks a little better than I thought, but IMO Smith is definitely better all around right now and is a lot younger. Because Collins has a significant salary, and cause we're trying to tank, I fully expect Vuc to be traded this summer and Zach to be the backup C next season to Smith, unless we draft somebody like Maluach or make a trade for a legit C. And that's fine. But Zach Collins is still a middle aged expiring contract who is at best like the 9th best player on our bad team. We can't overthink guys like him IMO. If he's playing in the rotation for your team, that's a weakness that should be an upgrade goal IMO.

[sco]

He looks a little better than I thought, but IMO Smith is definitely better all around right now and is a lot younger. Because Collins has a significant salary, and cause we're trying to tank, I fully expect Vuc to be traded this summer and Zach to be the backup C next season to Smith, unless we draft somebody like Maluach or make a trade for a legit C. And that's fine. But Zach Collins is still a middle aged expiring contract who is at best like the 9th best player on our bad team. We can't overthink guys like him IMO. If he's playing in the rotation for your team, that's a weakness that should be an upgrade goal IMO.

Good points.

My main goal next season is to see what a competent defensive C does with this roster...secondarily to see if Smith can handle the starting job. IMO, he's been above average on both ends, but I have concerns that he can't do it for starter minutes...if he can, we're in good shape.

[jordanwilliams6]

I mentioned in the game thread that he’s the perfect placeholder center for next year.

You can’t rely on him to be healthy all year but he’s more than capable of splitting the minutes at that spot with Smith next year providing we get a decent enough 3rd stringer.

More importantly he’s not good enough to seriously impact winning but good enough to play a role and not disrupt the development of the younger guys.

[ChettheJet]

When they got him I thought he was jut somebody's overpaid mistake to match salary. Granted it's only a few games I wouldn't consider him as long term or a starter but if he keeps contributing this year I wouldn't bother adding anything to get rid of his expiring contract. Once they move Vuc they can decide if Smith is good enough to start then find another short term 6-10+ guy on a short contract and you've got not so much a 3 man rotation but the position is covered in case of fouls and injury so you don't end up with Matas, Phillips and Patrick pretending to be a center for 12 minutes a game.

[HomoSapien]

I have to believe that Collins was just a salary filler for the Bulls, especially since they elected not to trade Vuc for 2nd round picks. That said, if Collins can have a Jokob Poeltl-type ascension and Huerter can go back to his old self, then this trade suddenly doesn't look like a flop. You've essentially added two starters while also regaining full control of your pick. Still too early to feel one way or the other, but both Collins and Huerter are suddenly not looking useless.

Collins just had 21, 17, and 7 against a good team. Hard to completely dismiss that. That was probably the best game of his career.

[Guru]

I think we are destined for Malauch. It's hard to wrap my head around Collins with this thought already foreclosed.

[jnrjr79]

I have to believe that Collins was just a salary filler for the Bulls, especially since they elected not to trade Vuc for 2nd round picks. That said, if Collins can have a Jokob Poeltl-type ascension and Huerter can go back to his old self, then this trade suddenly doesn't look like a flop. You've essentially added two starters while also regaining full control of your pick. Still too early to feel one way or the other, but both Collins and Huerter are suddenly not looking useless.

Collins just had 21, 17, and 7 against a good team. Hard to completely dismiss that. That was probably the best game of his career.

If nothing else, if these guys are productive to close out the year and starting next year, they may become somewhat useful trade chips for further deals.

[MrSparkle]

I think we are destined for Malauch. It's hard to wrap my head around Collins with this thought already foreclosed.

I am highly intrigued by him, but his very unproven 3-ball (of course draft hype will be “he’s working on it” with the gym reel showing off the range, like every 0% 3P C ever) means he’s not going to be anything more than a lob threat and garbage buckets.

Which sounds great to me! These low usage Cs help in today’s NBA, and we have multiple players who can make a great pass.

But:

1. Does AK value a defensive C? (Gafford was sent for very little)

2. Do you spend a 8-12 pick on a defensive project?

I do think he could be an exciting player. His defensive potential is sky high. Serious bust floor, though.

Maybe Okongwu is a decent comp.

[JRoy]

I had very high hopes for ZC in POR. Unfortunately his health never allowed him to develop into the player I hoped he would someday become.

Hes a competitor and a great teammate but I expect those intangibles will always outweigh his in court production.

[HomoSapien]

I had very high hopes for ZC in POR. Unfortunately his health never allowed him to develop into the player I hoped he would someday become.

Hes a competitor and a great teammate but I expect those intangibles will always outweigh his in court production.

Do you recall him having past stretches where he looked like a legit starter? I've been pretty impressed with his last three games. It's an incredibly small sample size, but he's averaging: 16 ppg, 11rpg, and 3 apg in 28mpg.

[JRoy]

I had very high hopes for ZC in POR. Unfortunately his health never allowed him to develop into the player I hoped he would someday become.

Hes a competitor and a great teammate but I expect those intangibles will always outweigh his in court production.

Do you recall him having past stretches where he looked like a legit starter? I've been pretty impressed with his last three games. It's an incredibly small sample size, but he's averaging: 16 ppg, 11rpg, and 3 apg in 28mpg.

Yes.

I hoped he would prove to be starting PF for a decade but a combination of injuries and more suitability to playing C kept that from happening.

He can be strong in stretches but injuries always brought those to and end for us.

Hope he has better luck with you. Wish him the best.

[Guru]

I think we are destined for Malauch. It's hard to wrap my head around Collins with this thought already foreclosed.

I am highly intrigued by him, but his very unproven 3-ball (of course draft hype will be “he’s working on it” with the gym reel showing off the range, like every 0% 3P C ever) means he’s not going to be anything more than a lob threat and garbage buckets.

Which sounds great to me! These low usage Cs help in today’s NBA, and we have multiple players who can make a great pass.

But:

1. Does AK value a defensive C? (Gafford was sent for very little)

2. Do you spend a 8-12 pick on a defensive project?

I do think he could be an exciting player. His defensive potential is sky high. Serious bust floor, though.

Maybe Okongwu is a decent comp.

I think this is a bad draft and he will be the biggest outlier left. I don't see a big scorer but I see an incredible defender, rim runner on offense and someone who is very smart.

[greenwing]

I posted this when we traded Zach and I still stand by this. We bought low on three useful players in Collins, Huerter and Jones and gained significant cap space by moving Zach. Zach was by far the best player in that deal but the roster is now deep and Buzelis is clearly our starting power forward of the future. Before the trade we lacked size and started Patrick Williams when he should be a scoring big off the bench. Now we have capable starters and backups at every position but ironically we now lack star power. With increased cap flexibility we now have to either luck into a star in the draft or somehow convince one to sign with us. I don't have confidence that either possibility will come to fruition but at least we are in a better position now to compete than we were before the trade deadline. As for Collins, the talent is there to start or come off the bench and we have another season of control with him. He'd be useful on the roster or also as filler in a consildation trade just as he was used for Zach. But for now, my opinion is that i'm happy for him to be on our roster.