2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft

[Negrodamus]

Queen does some Embiid type jogging back on defense that really gives me the ick at times.

Fears is also surging again. He has the physical traits and stats to suggest he's going to be a stud at the next level.

[Negrodamus]

The top players in this draft that aren't a traffic cone on defense and have a clear gravitational pull by the defense are Cooper Flagg, Dylan Harper, and Jeremiah Fears. VJ plays a lot off ball and has been dreadful shooting off the dribble. Ace has bad stats and can't figure out how to be a statistical gem off ball from Harper. Has been easily contained this year at times. Tre is trash on defense. Queen isn't a focal point of the offense, he's an opportunistic scorer and passer. They don't roll the ball to him and ask him to create.

I think my tiers are:
Flagg
Harper
Fears

Edgecombe

Everyone else

[76ciology]

The top players in this draft that aren't a traffic cone on defense and have a clear gravitational pull by the defense are Cooper Flagg, Dylan Harper, and Jeremiah Fears. VJ plays a lot off ball and has been dreadful shooting off the dribble. Ace has bad stats and can't figure out how to be a statistical gem off ball from Harper. Has been easily contained this year at times. Tre is trash on defense. Queen isn't a focal point of the offense, he's an opportunistic scorer and passer. They don't roll the ball to him and ask him to create.

I think my tiers are:
Flagg
Harper
Fears

Edgecombe

Everyone else

For me, value isn’t absolute—it’s relative.

I’m not saying defense doesn’t matter, but I think it’s less crucial at the guard position than at center. A guard’s offensive impact can often outweigh defensive shortcomings, while a center’s defense can compensate for limited offensive skills.

And ultimately, defense—assuming you have the physical tools—is mostly about effort. Two good examples on our team are Justin Edwards and Kelly Oubre. Sometimes, it’s almost entirely effort, like with Maxey and Grimes.

I mean, look at our team we play with a lot of length and almost 0 holes on defense but we’re struggling to play very good defense. While the Miami Heat plays with 1-2 defensive liabilities and they’ve made the finals multiple times.

Then there are several ways to hide a weak defender such as decreasing usage on offense and playing with good defenders.

With your metric, you’d be more often value guys like Jaden Springer and Zhaire Smith than Tyrese Maxey and Jared McCain.

[Negrodamus]

The top players in this draft that aren't a traffic cone on defense and have a clear gravitational pull by the defense are Cooper Flagg, Dylan Harper, and Jeremiah Fears. VJ plays a lot off ball and has been dreadful shooting off the dribble. Ace has bad stats and can't figure out how to be a statistical gem off ball from Harper. Has been easily contained this year at times. Tre is trash on defense. Queen isn't a focal point of the offense, he's an opportunistic scorer and passer. They don't roll the ball to him and ask him to create.

I think my tiers are:
Flagg
Harper
Fears

Edgecombe

Everyone else

For me, value isn’t absolute—it’s relative.

I’m not saying defense doesn’t matter, but I think it’s less crucial at the guard position than at center. A guard’s offensive impact can often outweigh defensive shortcomings, while a center’s defense can compensate for limited offensive skills.

And ultimately, defense—assuming you have the physical tools—is mostly about effort. Two good examples on our team are Justin Edwards and Kelly Oubre. Sometimes, it’s almost entirely effort, like with Maxey and Grimes.

I mean, look at our team we play with a lot of length and almost 0 holes on defense but we’re struggling to play very good defense. While the Miami Heat plays with 1-2 defensive liabilities and they’ve made the finals multiple times.

Then there are several ways to hide a weak defender such as decreasing usage on offense and playing with good defenders.

With your metric, you’d be more often value guys like Jaden Springer and Zhaire Smith than Tyrese Maxey and Jared McCain.

The metric is that the guys I'm valuing are the focal point of the offense while not being clueless on defense. I think you mentioned it in the game thread that they were exploiting Maxey being undersized and pretty mediocre on defense in crunch time. I don't think adding more exploitable players to the mix are what we need to do. Additionally, if I'm picking top 3, or even top 5, I'm looking for a full package type player. The aforementioned ones are the full package.

[Negrodamus]

Guys, we need to start having the uncomfortable conversation about Otega Oweh as a first rounder.

[76ciology]

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[Negrodamus]

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If he's there in the second, I could definitely be convinced to take Raynaud. Just a shade below 2 STL%, which is great for a 7'1 center. Suggests he's not really just a stiff. Wondering if he has Lauri upside since his shot is quite good. BLK% is a bit bad, but he's an exceptional rebounder.

[stormi]

Tre Johnson's been going undeniably crazy for a little while now.

Still feel like on a championship team he's 2022 Jordan Poole or 2020 Tyler Herro

27-30 MPG 16/3/3 >9 3PA per 100 possessions

Conundrum with the score first dynamo little guards we already have in abundance.

[76ciology]

Tre Johnson's been going undeniably crazy for a little while now.

Still feel like on a championship team he's 2022 Jordan Poole or 2020 Tyler Herro

27-30 MPG 16/3/3 >9 3PA per 100 possessions

Conundrum with the score first dynamo little guards we already have in abundance.

Neither of them is near as good as Tre Johnson in shotcreation.

[Negrodamus]

I'm trying to figure out what makes Tre different from Brice Sensabaugh, or at least a better prospect. Brice has/had a better frame for NBA physicality.

That said, Brice is playing decently now: very good solid percentages, almost 10ppg. So no slight to Brice, but why does he drop to the end of the first while Tre is talked about in the top 5?

[davesilver]

Thoughts on Knueppel? I see a a guy with great size, great shooting, positive contributor on both ends, and a winning player.

I think he’d be a great get at 6. Probably a low-ish ceiling but a lineup of
McCain Maxey Knueppel PG/Yabu Embiid

Is interesting

[76ciology]

I'm trying to figure out what makes Tre different from Brice Sensabaugh, or at least a better prospect. Brice has/had a better frame for NBA physicality.

That said, Brice is playing decently now: very good solid percentages, almost 10ppg. So no slight to Brice, but why does he drop to the end of the first while Tre is talked about in the top 5?

Tre is the better playmaker and a far superior three-point shooter, unlike Sensa, who relies more on the mid-range. He also looks quicker based on the eye test, has no “out of shape” concerns, and seems like a tier above as a scorer

[stormi]

Tre Johnson's been going undeniably crazy for a little while now.

Still feel like on a championship team he's 2022 Jordan Poole or 2020 Tyler Herro

27-30 MPG 16/3/3 >9 3PA per 100 possessions

Conundrum with the score first dynamo little guards we already have in abundance.

Neither of them is near as good as Tre Johnson in shotcreation.

Could you envisage him entering convos with Booker/Mitchell/Brown/Edwards with how mediocre an athlete he is?

All of those guys are either true 6'6 G/W hybrids (Booker) or in the case of Edwards/Brown/Mitchell utterly elite 95th percentile athletes for their position.

Tre Johnson is quite literally just Cam Bouchea Thomas 2.0 (your very fav player in the league, so your adoration is fitting).

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tre-johnson-2.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cameron-thomas-1.html

[stormi]

Thoughts on Knueppel? I see a a guy with great size, great shooting, positive contributor on both ends, and a winning player.

I think he’d be a great get at 6. Probably a low-ish ceiling but a lineup of
McCain Maxey Knueppel PG/Yabu Embiid

Is interesting

Specifically re: Kon Knueppel vs Liam McNeeley (cracker movement shooters ranked similarly) I think I lean Kon.

McNeeley is a good shooter but that’s really it and his defense is bad. Kon has way more flashes on ball. I currently have KK around 10 on my list.

[Negrodamus]

Yea but Cam was elite at drawing fouls.

I just need to see the all stars who have Tre's profile predraft (because that's the expectation from that high of a pick). I don't think there are many. Herro is the only guy who I'd say is comparable.

[Arsenal]

Tre Johnson's been going undeniably crazy for a little while now.

Still feel like on a championship team he's 2022 Jordan Poole or 2020 Tyler Herro

27-30 MPG 16/3/3 >9 3PA per 100 possessions

Conundrum with the score first dynamo little guards we already have in abundance.

Neither of them is near as good as Tre Johnson in shotcreation.

You think Tre can play PG alongside either Maxey or McCain?

At least Johnson has great size for SG at 6'6" with a 6'10" wingspan.

[the_process]

It might be premature for this, but I just wanted to get a feel for the room, see who I should be starting to pay attention to.

If the Sixers are at 6 in this draft, and Flagg, Bailey, Harper, Jakucionis, and Edgecombe are all off the board... who are you taking?

[Negrodamus]

It might be premature for this, but I just wanted to get a feel for the room, see who I should be starting to pay attention to.

If the Sixers are at 6 in this draft, and Flagg, Bailey, Harper, Jakucionis, and Edgecombe are all off the board... who are you taking?

I think Tre would definitely be in the discussion. At that point, I'm definitely team Queen, however the BPA, IMO, is Fears since he has superstar upside. Don't know how you reconcile that with Maxey and McCain, but he's the obvious perennial all star of who is left on the board. Noa Essengue is a guy I'd be fine with them swinging for the fences on due to physical attributes, FTr, age, and STL%.

[Mik317]

It might be premature for this, but I just wanted to get a feel for the room, see who I should be starting to pay attention to.

If the Sixers are at 6 in this draft, and Flagg, Bailey, Harper, Jakucionis, and Edgecombe are all off the board... who are you taking?

Have not done a deep dive yet (won't until I know we keep the pick lol)

but at that stage I'd look for the guy with the most upside and some freakish tools (length, athleticism, ect) and hope for the best.

[Kobblehead]

It might be premature for this, but I just wanted to get a feel for the room, see who I should be starting to pay attention to.

If the Sixers are at 6 in this draft, and Flagg, Bailey, Harper, Jakucionis, and Edgecombe are all off the board... who are you taking?

I guess Kon Knueppel. We'll have some major defensive concerns, but man, we'll be able to light it up from three.