2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
NBA Top 100 Player Ranking Post-All-Star
by THE RINGER.
11. Kevin Durant
15. Devin Booker
83. Bradley Beal
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/
by THE RINGER.
11. Kevin Durant
15. Devin Booker
83. Bradley Beal
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
Saberestar wrote:NBA Top 100 Player Ranking Post-All-Star
by THE RINGER.
11. Kevin Durant
15. Devin Booker
83. Bradley Beal
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/
Good. Be nice if the NBA GMs use that as baseline for our potential trades this summer
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
- Ghost of Kleine
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
- Ghost of Kleine
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
thamadkant wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
The key here is to recognize that he didn't say he's retiring or wouldn't possibly return next season?
So I'm keeping a modicum of irrational hope for a KD to San Antonio trade as a possibility this summer. Just give me a package of Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan/ ATL 25' 1st/ ATL 27' 1st.
Spurs ownership and HQ are top of the league so fleecing them is always out of the question. And I truly believe their owners also have links to NBA ownership through other ways and they are looked after. I mean... 3 generational big men with Admiral, Duncan and Wemby... basically everytime there's a HOF big man, as in championship level big franchise player, Spurs land the pick. I truly believe some drafts are rigged if the NBA are trying to set up something.
Fleecing them, of course not! But getting a package of Vassell/ Barnes / Sochan/ 2 1sts is absolutely possible and plausible. On the basis of these conditions:
Popovich has a strong relationship with KD from his time coaching him two separate times at the Tokyo Olympics to a gold medal both times. Also bigger than that is the mutual interest between Wemby and KD that admire/ adore each others game and potential, etc
And lastly, The Spurs have interest in trying to make a jump into the playoffs to in order to advance Wembys' and Castles' competitive progression. Obviously there's no one better to elevate a team in this manner than KD. So fleecing the Spurs is not a strategy to employ.
But getting a favorable package absolutely is possible.


Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
Saberestar wrote:NBA Top 100 Player Ranking Post-All-Star
by THE RINGER.
11. Kevin Durant
15. Devin Booker
83. Bradley Beal
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/
15 should bring back a dang good trade from Houston or Detroit
11 should bring back a solid to good trade for a team wanting one dang good scorer for the right team to win the "ship
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
bwgood77 wrote:Frank Lee wrote:DirtyDez wrote:
For Book yeah…
I’d do fillers and picks for KD. He’s going to demand where he goes so we lose leverage plus he’s entering season 18.
Whoa whoa whoa with the logic there bro
KD will get us the stars sun and moon while Book gets us the rest of the universe. We are approaching rebuild nirvana and the ultimate hoop healing experience. I can’t wait for Wishbia’s uber-positive reach around recap when this is all done.
If we can get 1 first and one good young player for KD plus filler, I'd good. Ideally yes, 2 picks and a good young player, but it's a tough sell with 1 year left at his age.
Dallas, for example, Max Christie and a pick plus the filler, which would have to include Gafford who is decent.
TWolves. Naz Reid, or possibly Jaden McDaniels, and a pick or possibly 2.
We are not getting a bunch for KD from Houston and then a bunch from OKC for Book or anything like that.
Hopefully for Book if Ishbia can pull his head out we trade him for Houston for 3 picks (hopefully ours or 2 of ours and the Dallas swap) a, PF (Smith or Eason), maybe a guy like Whitmore, and the filler (Green, Brooks or FVV). Green might make the most sense to take a flyer on but not sure he has the bbiq to ever be a really good player, and paying him a lot...just not sure about.
Of course I'd love Amen. But I doubt we could get 2 (or definitely not 3) of our picks AND Amen. If we got Amen maybe one of our picks (or one of ours and one other one like one of Houston's own picks). Maybe that would be better. Who knows. We likely will be near the bottom of the west for a few years anyway, even if we keep Book, so might as well start building.
I don't think we'll get some massive haul for KD either man. But Christie/ filler and 1 pick? I mean really? C'mon man! You've got to know that's a pretty poor value return for KDs' value even with only 1 yr left and at his age. It amazes me how much some people are undervaluing our two top players as trade assets.
KD is still a top 10 HOF talent and a top 5 ALL TIME offensive talent that is virtually unstoppable offensively putting up near triple double production on elite efficiency and offering a near MVP level impact even at his age.
People will argue he only has one year and might not resign!!! Boo hoo, even if he doesn't choose to resign or the team chooses not to resign him, then you have a huge 54 million expiring contract.
And/ or a ton of imminent cap space from him. And if he does, then the teams that trade for him with obviously much better front offices and actually functional rosters will be competing more legitimately with him than without.
So either way he's bringing a ton of value to the recieving team. The baseline is and will be 1-2 good young players, salary ballast fillers and 2 decent 1sts. Of course will start with much higher offers and work our way down in negotiations to this threshold.
This was clearly illustrated by what the Suns front office initially demanded from Miami. And then what they settled at/ around in the Butler/ Kuminga/ picks package. And that's the type of value framework we need to be considering. Anything less just isn't worth our time due to our situation.

Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
This, unfortunately for Orlando, should at least make an Allen to Orlando trade much more enticing??
I've said before Grayson to Orlando makes a ton of sense. I just don't know what a trade would look like.
I don't really want Issacs. I don't think they'd give up any of their young guys drafted over the past year or so. Just a bit hard to match salaries
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
So if Washington was indeed an option, KD would consider, for the reasons Melo mentioned, what package would you look for coming back from them?
lol makes no sense. KD doesn't want a farewell tour....let alone in Washington lol and why would Washington want to move assets, their rebuilding assets, for a player the team has ZERO connection other than KD is from Washington.
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
The Knicks dodged such a massive bullet!! I feel sorry for Embiid, but the signs were obviously there.
How cooked must Embiid's knees be if they are talking microfracture surgery? Like, the NBA has moved on from those career changing/shortening surgeries almost 2 decades ago (Oden was the last I believe) and to be brought back into the modern NBA lexicon is wild.
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
So if Washington was indeed an option, KD would consider, for the reasons Melo mentioned, what package would you look for coming back from them?
lol makes no sense. KD doesn't want a farewell tour....let alone in Washington lol and why would Washington want to move assets, their rebuilding assets, for a player the team has ZERO connection other than KD is from Washington.
I'd think it really depends on what his priorities are at this point in his career. I mean he already has two championships. so he's achieved that! He's already a lock for the HOF and a top 10 player all time and a top 5 offensive talent all time. And if he chose to, he could easily chase personal accolades anywhere given his clout.
Also, consider that he's from Washington, grew up there, all of his family and friends are there, and that is a strong influence for some players. He could also help mentor Sarr and close out his career helping restore Washington basketball to notoriety, again, in front of all his family and friends. I'd wager that carries legitimate value to him near the end of his career.


Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
This, unfortunately for Orlando, should at least make an Allen to Orlando trade much more enticing??
I've said before Grayson to Orlando makes a ton of sense. I just don't know what a trade would look like.
I don't really want Issacs. I don't think they'd give up any of their young guys drafted over the past year or so. Just a bit hard to match salaries
Well, Isaacs makes too much so the numbers don't work for him really. And they're only young guys that I'd have interest in:
Suggs, Wagner, Banchero, De Silva wouldn't be available for Allen anyways. So I think the package premise would remain as Allen for Bidatze, Harris (7.5 million expiring)/ and maybe a 2nd?

Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
So if Washington was indeed an option, KD would consider, for the reasons Melo mentioned, what package would you look for coming back from them?
lol makes no sense. KD doesn't want a farewell tour....let alone in Washington lol and why would Washington want to move assets, their rebuilding assets, for a player the team has ZERO connection other than KD is from Washington.
I'd think it really depends on what his priorities are at this point in his career. I mean he already has two championships. so he's achieved that! He's already a lock for the HOF and a top 10 player all time and a top 5 offensive talent all time. And if he chose to, he could easily chase personal accolades anywhere given his clout.
Also, consider that he's from Washington, grew up there, all of his family and friends are there, and that is a strong influence for some players. He could also help mentor Sarr and close out his career helping restore Washington basketball to notoriety, again, in front of all his family and friends. I'd wager that carries legitimate value to him near the end of his career.
To keep winning. The guy is still a top player in the league and can clearly still impact winning so I don't see why anyone needs to question whether he's in "retirement" mode yet. Wade, Kobe, Dirk getting their retirement tours were all well beyond their usefulness to their teams by that point. I think it's a ridiculous to suggest a guy averaging 27/6/4 on elite efficiency is somehow looking to wind down his career.
Sure when he's at the end of his career, it could be a factor but he isn't Dirk averaging 7/3 at 40 years old or Nash averaging 7/5 in his last season either.
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
This, unfortunately for Orlando, should at least make an Allen to Orlando trade much more enticing??
I've said before Grayson to Orlando makes a ton of sense. I just don't know what a trade would look like.
I don't really want Issacs. I don't think they'd give up any of their young guys drafted over the past year or so. Just a bit hard to match salaries
Well, Isaacs makes too much so the numbers don't work for him really. And they're only young guys that I'd have interest in:
Suggs, Wagner, Banchero, De Silva wouldn't be available for Allen anyways. So I think the package premise would remain as Allen for Bidatze, Harris (7.5 million expiring)/ and maybe a 2nd?
You have to look at 25-26 salaries not 24-25 because that's already passed. When the offseason rolls around, you're looking at the 2025-2026 offseason and associated salaries. For trade purposes, Suggs is now on $35m and Issacs on $15m. On the flip side, Grayson is on $16.9m
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/yearly
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:I've said before Grayson to Orlando makes a ton of sense. I just don't know what a trade would look like.
I don't really want Issacs. I don't think they'd give up any of their young guys drafted over the past year or so. Just a bit hard to match salaries
Well, Isaacs makes too much so the numbers don't work for him really. And they're only young guys that I'd have interest in:
Suggs, Wagner, Banchero, De Silva wouldn't be available for Allen anyways. So I think the package premise would remain as Allen for Bidatze, Harris (7.5 million expiring)/ and maybe a 2nd?
You have to look at 25-26 salaries not 24-25 because that's already passed. When the offseason rolls around, you're looking at the 2025-2026 offseason and associated salaries. For trade purposes, Suggs is now on $35m and Issacs on $15m. On the flip side, Grayson is on $16.9m
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/yearly
I'm sorry man! My bad. You're right, I was glancing at the wrong column.

So why is it you wouldn't have any interest in Isaac's? I mean I get that Allen is a great shooter, but wouldn't Isaac's be ideal defensively at the 4 allowing us to move KD to the three if we could convince him to stay? And Isaac's also only has partial guarantees for 26-27, and then non guaranteed for 27-28 and 28-29.
For the record, I still prefer an Allen for Bidatze/ Harris expiring trade. Maybe try and get a 2nd back in the deal.


Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Well, Isaacs makes too much so the numbers don't work for him really. And they're only young guys that I'd have interest in:
Suggs, Wagner, Banchero, De Silva wouldn't be available for Allen anyways. So I think the package premise would remain as Allen for Bidatze, Harris (7.5 million expiring)/ and maybe a 2nd?
You have to look at 25-26 salaries not 24-25 because that's already passed. When the offseason rolls around, you're looking at the 2025-2026 offseason and associated salaries. For trade purposes, Suggs is now on $35m and Issacs on $15m. On the flip side, Grayson is on $16.9m
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/yearly
I'm sorry man! My bad. You're right, I was glancing at the wrong column.
So why is it you wouldn't have any interest in Isaac's? I mean I get that Allen is a great shooter, but wouldn't Isaac's be ideal defensively at the 4 allowing us to move KD to the three if we could convince him to stay? And Isaac's also only has partial guarantees for 26-27, and then non guaranteed for 27-28 and 28-29.
For the record, I still prefer an Allen for Bidatze/ Harris expiring trade. Maybe try and get a 2nd back in the deal.
I've been a known "hater" of Isaacs for a while but at the core, I just think he was an overrated prospect and now that he's 27, that hype is surely dead now and what he is will be more or less what he will be the rest of his career. I think there's a decent chance Isaac's contract gets fully guaranteed because it seems he's beyond the injury woes he's dealt with for most of his career and those guarantees are based on him playing 52 games. Last season and this season, he's already played more than 52 games.
Also, in this reality, I'm assuming KD is gone this offseason. But look, if we can get some draft capital and/or a decent young player back to take on Isaac for Grayson...fine. But I'd probably prefer someone like Cole Anthony who's younger and there's a bit more certainty around his contract as he's essentially a $13m expiring next season.
I'm down with the Goga/Harris plus draft pick deal too
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:lol makes no sense. KD doesn't want a farewell tour....let alone in Washington lol and why would Washington want to move assets, their rebuilding assets, for a player the team has ZERO connection other than KD is from Washington.
I'd think it really depends on what his priorities are at this point in his career. I mean he already has two championships. so he's achieved that! He's already a lock for the HOF and a top 10 player all time and a top 5 offensive talent all time. And if he chose to, he could easily chase personal accolades anywhere given his clout.
Also, consider that he's from Washington, grew up there, all of his family and friends are there, and that is a strong influence for some players. He could also help mentor Sarr and close out his career helping restore Washington basketball to notoriety, again, in front of all his family and friends. I'd wager that carries legitimate value to him near the end of his career.
To keep winning. The guy is still a top player in the league and can clearly still impact winning so I don't see why anyone needs to question whether he's in "retirement" mode yet. Wade, Kobe, Dirk getting their retirement tours were all well beyond their usefulness to their teams by that point. I think it's a ridiculous to suggest a guy averaging 27/6/4 on elite efficiency is somehow looking to wind down his career.
You're promoting the narrative that KD wouldn't choose to go play in Washington even at 37 years old because he'd prioritize the chance to "keep winning" even though he clearly hasn't been doing much of that here the last couple of years anyways. And then you say........"The guy is still a top player in the league and can clearly still impact winning so I don't see why anyone needs to question whether he's in "retirement" mode yet."
LOL! As if he somehow wouldn't still be a top player in the league that can impact winning even if going to Washington? he'll obviously still be elite wherever he chooses to go, so that narrative is faulty logic, man. Obviously, none of us are psychic or can predict how long KD might choose to try and play. But obviously he could just as easily chase personal goals, benchmarks, records, etc, in Washington or anywhere else to finish his career out however long he chooses to or can continue to play. Washington would in no way inhibit these possibilities.
But what we do know is that in the NBA, it's very unlikely that any player continues playing in their 40s, especially not 37-year-olds having to consistently play around 40+ minutes a night!. So saying something to the effect of "near the end of" their career being a speculative statement in correlation to what we do know about the average length of an NBA player's career should really not be as sensationalistic or triggering as it seems to be for you here man. And you use the term " retirement mode" as a negative reference, like it's somehow premature to envision him not playing much longer beyond the next 2-3 years as he gets closer to 40?
Again, exactly how many 40-year-old NBA players (aside from steroid using Lebron) are still playing in the NBA? How many 39-year-olds for that matter? None of us can read KDs' mind, or know with certainty what's most important to him, so it's obviously no more ridiculous for me to suggest that he might have differing priorities as he closes in on the twilight of his career at almost 37 years old, knowing that almost no NBA players IF ANY play into or past their 40s. So, regardless of putting up elite efficiency, and great production, is he under any circumstances guaranteed to continue playing at such a level the closer he gets to 40? What has history shown us in correlation to age, production, and overall efficiency decline?
You also make a comparison to Wade, Kobe, and Dirk! As if it's somehow universally translatable even though each player's individual contextual situations and circumstances are vastly different. You say that you think it's ridiculous to suggest a guy averaging 27/6/4 on elite efficiency is somehow looking to wind down his career. Yet you're speaking from a position of ignorance to the situation, same as anybody else (including me) who might just be speculating on his priorities at nearly 37 yrs old after all when you know it's not at all unreasonable or uncommon for a person's priorities to change as they age.
Does KD somehow not deserve the same courtesy man? Is it any more ridiculous for me to speculate and have an opinion on what KD might value than what you're also speculating from your perspective? How can you deem my suggestion to be any more ridiculous than your own when neither has vetted or confirmed information to KDs' intentions, and both are at best mere speculation at best. At least with my perspective, we have a historical record/ timeline for players' career lengths to reference in relation to the probability of such a premise.

Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:
You have to look at 25-26 salaries not 24-25 because that's already passed. When the offseason rolls around, you're looking at the 2025-2026 offseason and associated salaries. For trade purposes, Suggs is now on $35m and Issacs on $15m. On the flip side, Grayson is on $16.9m
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/yearly
I'm sorry man! My bad. You're right, I was glancing at the wrong column.
So why is it you wouldn't have any interest in Isaac's? I mean I get that Allen is a great shooter, but wouldn't Isaac's be ideal defensively at the 4 allowing us to move KD to the three if we could convince him to stay? And Isaac's also only has partial guarantees for 26-27, and then non guaranteed for 27-28 and 28-29.
For the record, I still prefer an Allen for Bidatze/ Harris expiring trade. Maybe try and get a 2nd back in the deal.
I've been a known "hater" of Isaacs for a while but at the core, I just think he was an overrated prospect and now that he's 27, that hype is surely dead now and what he is will be more or less what he will be the rest of his career. I think there's a decent chance Isaac's contract gets fully guaranteed because it seems he's beyond the injury woes he's dealt with for most of his career and those guarantees are based on him playing 52 games. Last season and this season, he's already played more than 52 games.
Also, in this reality, I'm assuming KD is gone this offseason. But look, if we can get some draft capital and/or a decent young player back to take on Isaac for Grayson...fine. But I'd probably prefer someone like Cole Anthony who's younger and there's a bit more certainty around his contract as he's essentially a $13m expiring next season.
I'm down with the Goga/Harris plus draft pick deal too
Curious as to why you have hate for Isaacs? Am I missing something he's done? Is he somehow a bad player or person that should illicit such hate? Or is it just a personal perspective towards him? I mean he's still considered an ELITE Adefeendr and would clearly address a multitude of defensive issues for us. But I guess IF the idea is for us to bottom out and rebuild, then he wouldn't make much sense.


Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
I'd think it really depends on what his priorities are at this point in his career. I mean he already has two championships. so he's achieved that! He's already a lock for the HOF and a top 10 player all time and a top 5 offensive talent all time. And if he chose to, he could easily chase personal accolades anywhere given his clout.
Also, consider that he's from Washington, grew up there, all of his family and friends are there, and that is a strong influence for some players. He could also help mentor Sarr and close out his career helping restore Washington basketball to notoriety, again, in front of all his family and friends. I'd wager that carries legitimate value to him near the end of his career.
To keep winning. The guy is still a top player in the league and can clearly still impact winning so I don't see why anyone needs to question whether he's in "retirement" mode yet. Wade, Kobe, Dirk getting their retirement tours were all well beyond their usefulness to their teams by that point. I think it's a ridiculous to suggest a guy averaging 27/6/4 on elite efficiency is somehow looking to wind down his career.
You're promoting the narrative that KD wouldn't choose to go play in Washington even at 37 years old because he'd prioritize the chance to "keep winning" even though he clearly hasn't been doing much of that here the last couple of years anyways. And then you say........"The guy is still a top player in the league and can clearly still impact winning so I don't see why anyone needs to question whether he's in "retirement" mode yet."
LOL! As if he somehow wouldn't still be a top player in the league that can impact winning even if going to Washington? he'll obviously still be elite wherever he chooses to go, so that narrative is faulty logic, man. Obviously, none of us are psychic or can predict how long KD might choose to try and play. But obviously he could just as easily chase personal goals, benchmarks, records, etc, in Washington or anywhere else to finish his career out however long he chooses to or can continue to play. Washington would in no way inhibit these possibilities.
But what we do know is that in the NBA, it's very unlikely that any player continues playing in their 40s, especially not 37-year-olds having to consistently play around 40+ minutes a night!. So saying something to the effect of "near the end of" their career being a speculative statement in correlation to what we do know about the average length of an NBA player's career should really not be as sensationalistic or triggering as it seems to be for you here man. And you use the term " retirement mode" as a negative reference, like it's somehow premature to envision him not playing much longer beyond the next 2-3 years as he gets closer to 40?
Again, exactly how many 40-year-old NBA players (aside from steroid using Lebron) are still playing in the NBA? How many 39-year-olds for that matter? None of us can read KDs' mind, or know with certainty what's most important to him, so it's obviously no more ridiculous for me to suggest that he might have differing priorities as he closes in on the twilight of his career at almost 37 years old, knowing that almost no NBA players IF ANY play into or past their 40s. So, regardless of putting up elite efficiency, and great production, is he under any circumstances guaranteed to continue playing at such a level the closer he gets to 40? What has history shown us in correlation to age, production, and overall efficiency decline?
You also make a comparison to Wade, Kobe, and Dirk! As if it's somehow universally translatable even though each player's individual contextual situations and circumstances are vastly different. You say that you think it's ridiculous to suggest a guy averaging 27/6/4 on elite efficiency is somehow looking to wind down his career. Yet you're speaking from a position of ignorance to the situation, same as anybody else (including me) who might just be speculating on his priorities at nearly 37 yrs old after all when you know it's not at all unreasonable or uncommon for a person's priorities to change as they age.
Does KD somehow not deserve the same courtesy man? Is it any more ridiculous for me to speculate and have an opinion on what KD might value than what you're also speculating from your perspective? How can you deem my suggestion to be any more ridiculous than your own when neither has vetted or confirmed information to KDs' intentions, and both are at best mere speculation at best. At least with my perspective, we have a historical record/ timeline for players' career lengths to reference in relation to the probability of such a premise.
Are you suggesting with where Washington is at right now, 10 wins for the season, multiple 16 game losing streaks, deep in a rebuild, is where KD wants to waste the last few years of being an elite player in the NBA? One 36-37 year old KD isn't going to take the Wizards to playoff success. He can't even do that in Phoenix with a far better team
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
I'm sorry man! My bad. You're right, I was glancing at the wrong column.
So why is it you wouldn't have any interest in Isaac's? I mean I get that Allen is a great shooter, but wouldn't Isaac's be ideal defensively at the 4 allowing us to move KD to the three if we could convince him to stay? And Isaac's also only has partial guarantees for 26-27, and then non guaranteed for 27-28 and 28-29.
For the record, I still prefer an Allen for Bidatze/ Harris expiring trade. Maybe try and get a 2nd back in the deal.
I've been a known "hater" of Isaacs for a while but at the core, I just think he was an overrated prospect and now that he's 27, that hype is surely dead now and what he is will be more or less what he will be the rest of his career. I think there's a decent chance Isaac's contract gets fully guaranteed because it seems he's beyond the injury woes he's dealt with for most of his career and those guarantees are based on him playing 52 games. Last season and this season, he's already played more than 52 games.
Also, in this reality, I'm assuming KD is gone this offseason. But look, if we can get some draft capital and/or a decent young player back to take on Isaac for Grayson...fine. But I'd probably prefer someone like Cole Anthony who's younger and there's a bit more certainty around his contract as he's essentially a $13m expiring next season.
I'm down with the Goga/Harris plus draft pick deal too
Curious as to why you have hate for Isaacs? Am I missing something he's done? Is he somehow a bad player or person that should illicit such hate? Or is it just a personal perspective towards him? I mean he's still considered an ELITE Adefeendr and would clearly address a multitude of defensive issues for us. But I guess IF the idea is for us to bottom out and rebuild, then he wouldn't make much sense.
I don't have hate for Isaacs. I just happen to fall into the perceived category because I've never liked his game or why people were so infatuated with him even with all the injuries. At this stage in his career, there's a decent chance he's playing so few minutes not because of the roster but because his body just can't handle 25-30mpg on a nightly basis anymore if he wants to be available more often.
And he's also never really developed an offensive game either.
Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
- Ghost of Kleine
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV
lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:
To keep winning. The guy is still a top player in the league and can clearly still impact winning so I don't see why anyone needs to question whether he's in "retirement" mode yet. Wade, Kobe, Dirk getting their retirement tours were all well beyond their usefulness to their teams by that point. I think it's a ridiculous to suggest a guy averaging 27/6/4 on elite efficiency is somehow looking to wind down his career.
You're promoting the narrative that KD wouldn't choose to go play in Washington even at 37 years old because he'd prioritize the chance to "keep winning" even though he clearly hasn't been doing much of that here the last couple of years anyways. And then you say........"The guy is still a top player in the league and can clearly still impact winning so I don't see why anyone needs to question whether he's in "retirement" mode yet."
LOL! As if he somehow wouldn't still be a top player in the league that can impact winning even if going to Washington? he'll obviously still be elite wherever he chooses to go, so that narrative is faulty logic, man. Obviously, none of us are psychic or can predict how long KD might choose to try and play. But obviously he could just as easily chase personal goals, benchmarks, records, etc, in Washington or anywhere else to finish his career out however long he chooses to or can continue to play. Washington would in no way inhibit these possibilities.
But what we do know is that in the NBA, it's very unlikely that any player continues playing in their 40s, especially not 37-year-olds having to consistently play around 40+ minutes a night!. So saying something to the effect of "near the end of" their career being a speculative statement in correlation to what we do know about the average length of an NBA player's career should really not be as sensationalistic or triggering as it seems to be for you here man. And you use the term " retirement mode" as a negative reference, like it's somehow premature to envision him not playing much longer beyond the next 2-3 years as he gets closer to 40?
Again, exactly how many 40-year-old NBA players (aside from steroid using Lebron) are still playing in the NBA? How many 39-year-olds for that matter? None of us can read KDs' mind, or know with certainty what's most important to him, so it's obviously no more ridiculous for me to suggest that he might have differing priorities as he closes in on the twilight of his career at almost 37 years old, knowing that almost no NBA players IF ANY play into or past their 40s. So, regardless of putting up elite efficiency, and great production, is he under any circumstances guaranteed to continue playing at such a level the closer he gets to 40? What has history shown us in correlation to age, production, and overall efficiency decline?
You also make a comparison to Wade, Kobe, and Dirk! As if it's somehow universally translatable even though each player's individual contextual situations and circumstances are vastly different. You say that you think it's ridiculous to suggest a guy averaging 27/6/4 on elite efficiency is somehow looking to wind down his career. Yet you're speaking from a position of ignorance to the situation, same as anybody else (including me) who might just be speculating on his priorities at nearly 37 yrs old after all when you know it's not at all unreasonable or uncommon for a person's priorities to change as they age.
Does KD somehow not deserve the same courtesy man? Is it any more ridiculous for me to speculate and have an opinion on what KD might value than what you're also speculating from your perspective? How can you deem my suggestion to be any more ridiculous than your own when neither has vetted or confirmed information to KDs' intentions, and both are at best mere speculation at best. At least with my perspective, we have a historical record/ timeline for players' career lengths to reference in relation to the probability of such a premise.
Are you suggesting with where Washington is at right now, 10 wins for the season, multiple 16 game losing streaks, deep in a rebuild, is where KD wants to waste the last few years of being an elite player in the NBA? One 36-37 year old KD isn't going to take the Wizards to playoff success. He can't even do that in Phoenix with a far better team
Well. It's no surprise that currently they're tanking as many teams are for Cooper Flag! But looking at their team, they have around $62 million in expiring contracts to use in trade for vet players they could put around KD if he made it clear he'd be willing to go there. They also have a ton of picks to attach in trades, and a great young core loaded with young talent, and they're in a weaker eastern conference too, so it's not at all a legitimate impossibility for them to be able to pivot rather quickly if KD had interest in going there.
But again, what I am suggesting is that with most anyone, as you get older and start nearing the last few years of your career or even the age of 40 in general, it's not at all uncommon for priorities to change. And family and those close to you can become a much more prominent consideration to someone's legacy! I'm also suggesting that KD has already well cemented his historical legacy as very elite, HOF level, multi-time NBA champion, TOP 5 greatest ALL time offensive talent in NBA history, and historically top 10 ALL TIME already too. Now wee all know how cerebral and intellectual KD is, but hre's also fairly easygoing and laid back too.
So maybe just maybe he's reached a point we can't fully understand wherein he recognizes his elite accomplishments and doesn't feel it necessary to prove much more. And as a result, his perspective on his professional priorities towards his last remaining years may have shifted from what they were so early on in his career. Again, with family friends and home environment becoming more prominent than what they might have been before.

