2024-2025 Regular Season Game 61: Golden State Warriors (31-27) at Orlando Magic (29-31) - 7pm

[VFX]

The thing now is, the concern might shift from Weltman being too passive to now maybe being too aggressive. This season has turned into such a disaster, which isn't entirely the fault of anyone. The injuries were just bad luck, and something intangible was lost along the way. But there has been enough time now that we should have seen more of a recovery toward better play, and we haven't. But back to the point, this season has been so disastrous, and all of our problems reaching unprecedented levels (along with the scrutiny to match), that I'm growing increasingly concerned that Weltman may swing on a risky move in an attempt to secure his job. Maybe not something quite as bad as trading for Ibaka and signing Biyombo, but bad nonetheless.

As a GM this is why you gauge deals on the fringes ALL THE TIME.

This is what people were screaming for 3-4 seasons. You make deals on guys that you have already planned aren’t part of the conversation of the future. You don’t re-sign them because you ran out of short term options.

Now the league knows Weltman will be aggressive because his plan blew up in his face. That means they will now squeeze him for assets because he’s desperate to fix the problem. He should have just been consistently making moves over a number of seasons when the opportunities arose.

KCP, Carter, and AB are the highest valued assets out of the rest of the roster of guys that aren’t trash value or the main 3 considered part of the future. Those 3 contracts plus picks are all they have to work with now and Carters contract isn’t a value anymore.

[Last Guardian]

Suggs has all but proved himself the most important piece of the puzzle. We are drastically better when he plays, even if he isn't the one getting all the stats like Franz/Paolo. Maybe we weren't actually better without Paolo, we just still had Suggs at the time.

[three3d]

https://youtu.be/--XFoyEIswI?si=ekMK1TUlyeJiimYU

Incase anyone needs a good laugh today listen to this Jeff Teague interview on being traded to the Magic and never playing posted it in the Magic general season thread also.

[OrlChamps2030]

Suggs has all but proved himself the most important piece of the puzzle. We are drastically better when he plays, even if he isn't the one getting all the stats like Franz/Paolo. Maybe we weren't actually better without Paolo, we just still had Suggs at the time.

Suggs is good, even really good, but I think our record without Suggs or Mo says as much about the depth/roster construction of this team.

When Paolo goes out, we have another great forward that steps up and gets his usage scaled up.

When Suggs goes out, we have to rely on KCP, AB, or Cole to step up

When Mo goes out, we have to rely on.. someone.. off the bench to give us offensive production

Good teams normally have more than one good guard and more than one good offensive bench player

[IllMagic04]

I'm not even mad at the L. It took a historic performance from the GOAT shooter to beat us along with the refs. I was just happy to see some shots go in the basket. It be nice if some of that can carry over. We don't need to be lights out but just seeing a few shots go in really energizes our defense.

[drsd]

We had 6 more turnovers and what really hurt us was that so many came when we were making almost every shot in the first half, we could have had 25 point lead at the break and the Warriors may well have decided to pack it up for the night.

From a boxscore perspective, the Magic being +6 in TOs was not damaging, as the Magic had both more made and attempted FGs.
Why, becasue the Magic win the rebounding differential to offset the TO differential.

[JoshuaPotter]

Suggs has all but proved himself the most important piece of the puzzle. We are drastically better when he plays, even if he isn't the one getting all the stats like Franz/Paolo. Maybe we weren't actually better without Paolo, we just still had Suggs at the time.

I've calmly been saying this for a while now.

We are 11-20 without Mo.

9-17 without Suggs

The problem with Franz being out or Paolo being out is all the potential for overlap. But those to being out I think is the real reason. As many have said "the offense isn't there." Well. That's because your 1-4 best scorers respectively are injured and the rest just can't step up.

[OrlandoDream]

Suggs has all but proved himself the most important piece of the puzzle. We are drastically better when he plays, even if he isn't the one getting all the stats like Franz/Paolo. Maybe we weren't actually better without Paolo, we just still had Suggs at the time.

I've calmly been saying this for a while now.

We are 11-20 without Mo.

9-17 without Suggs

The problem with Franz being out or Paolo being out is all the potential for overlap. But those to being out I think is the real reason. As many have said "the offense isn't there." Well. That's because your 3-4 best scorers respectively are injured and the rest just can't step up.

Idk if its Suggs just as much as how bad our current backcourt is. KCP is awful and Cole still a negative. Suggs was the only decent backcourt player we had that would defend and score on consistent basis. Our backcourt rotation is just awful right now. Thats one of the main reasons for these dry spells where we cant score bc everyone outside paolo and franz is a dud.

[JoshuaPotter]

Suggs has all but proved himself the most important piece of the puzzle. We are drastically better when he plays, even if he isn't the one getting all the stats like Franz/Paolo. Maybe we weren't actually better without Paolo, we just still had Suggs at the time.

I've calmly been saying this for a while now.

We are 11-20 without Mo.

9-17 without Suggs

The problem with Franz being out or Paolo being out is all the potential for overlap. But those to being out I think is the real reason. As many have said "the offense isn't there." Well. That's because your 3-4 best scorers respectively are injured and the rest just can't step up.

Idk if its Suggs just as much as how bad our current backcourt is. KCP is awful and Cole still a negative. Suggs was the only decent backcourt player we had that would defend and score on consistent basis. Our backcourt rotation is just awful right now. Thats one of the main reasons for these dry spells where we cant score bc everyone outside paolo and franz is a dud.

I constantly emphasize that if basketball were as easy as 1-2 decisions everyone would have won a championship by now.

And in reality, that is exactly what I am saying. Cole, Black, Harris, Kcp, they can all step up maybe one night here one night there. But they are not anything close to consistent offense.

Suggs & Mo is like missing a 3rd 28 ppg scorer. OK thats not how it works, and yet it is how the math works IE you need to put the ball in the hole, and you are missing 28ppg of it.

Out of the playing roster on the backcourt I like Black the most. Highest upside if you will. Yet, he has missed maybe more then half of his opportunity for it to be "his time is now" moments.

Anyway. If it wasn't obvious I mostly agree.

[OrlandoDream]

I've calmly been saying this for a while now.

We are 11-20 without Mo.

9-17 without Suggs

The problem with Franz being out or Paolo being out is all the potential for overlap. But those to being out I think is the real reason. As many have said "the offense isn't there." Well. That's because your 3-4 best scorers respectively are injured and the rest just can't step up.

Idk if its Suggs just as much as how bad our current backcourt is. KCP is awful and Cole still a negative. Suggs was the only decent backcourt player we had that would defend and score on consistent basis. Our backcourt rotation is just awful right now. Thats one of the main reasons for these dry spells where we cant score bc everyone outside paolo and franz is a dud.

I constantly emphasize that if basketball were as easy as 1-2 decisions everyone would have won a championship by now.

And in reality, that is exactly what I am saying. Cole, Black, Harris, Kcp, they can all step up maybe one night here one night there. But they are not anything close to consistent offense.

Suggs & Mo is like missing a 3rd 28 ppg scorer. OK thats not how it works, and yet it is how the math works IE you need to put the ball in the hole, and you are missing 28ppg of it.

Out of the playing roster on the backcourt I like Black the most. Highest upside if you will. Yet, he has missed maybe more then half of his opportunity for it to be "his time is now" moments.

Anyway. If it wasn't obvious I mostly agree.

While I was upset we didn't do something at the deadline for a shooter I was even more shocked that Weltman did absolutely nothing to replace the productivity of Mo Wagner. Mo was giving us off the bench consistent 13-18 ppg. Him and Suggs were big reason for that stretch where we were winning games. How can Weltman just leave that gap uncovered and expect us to win games?

Like you said, our top 3 and 4 scorers are out and we have don't nothing to replace those points. I cant imagine this will go on next year.

AB I have my reservations. Still young and can be solid player but right now is a bad fit next to paolo and franz. He issnt a PG and just a good defensive wing. He also just disappears when we play good teams. Prob bc he has no shot and when teams take away driving he is pretty much useless on offense. He can still be a rotation player here if we fill up other positions with actual shooters. However it would not surprise me if we trade him in package for better player.

[JoshuaPotter]

Idk if its Suggs just as much as how bad our current backcourt is. KCP is awful and Cole still a negative. Suggs was the only decent backcourt player we had that would defend and score on consistent basis. Our backcourt rotation is just awful right now. Thats one of the main reasons for these dry spells where we cant score bc everyone outside paolo and franz is a dud.

I constantly emphasize that if basketball were as easy as 1-2 decisions everyone would have won a championship by now.

And in reality, that is exactly what I am saying. Cole, Black, Harris, Kcp, they can all step up maybe one night here one night there. But they are not anything close to consistent offense.

Suggs & Mo is like missing a 3rd 28 ppg scorer. OK thats not how it works, and yet it is how the math works IE you need to put the ball in the hole, and you are missing 28ppg of it.

Out of the playing roster on the backcourt I like Black the most. Highest upside if you will. Yet, he has missed maybe more then half of his opportunity for it to be "his time is now" moments.

Anyway. If it wasn't obvious I mostly agree.

While I was upset we didn't do something at the deadline for a shooter I was even more shocked that Weltman did absolutely nothing to replace the productivity of Mo Wagner. Mo was giving us off the bench consistent 13-18 ppg. Him and Suggs were big reason for that stretch where we were winning games. How can Weltman just leave that gap uncovered and expect us to win games?

Like you said, our top 3 and 4 scorers are out and we have don't nothing to replace those points. I cant imagine this will go on next year.

AB I have my reservations. Still young and can be solid player but right now is a bad fit next to paolo and franz. He issnt a PG and just a good defensive wing. He also just disappears when we play good teams. Prob bc he has no shot and when teams take away driving he is pretty much useless on offense. He can still be a rotation player here if we fill up other positions with actual shooters. However it would not surprise me if we trade him in package for better player.

While we might disagree on semantics we agree on premise.

We did 0 to replace Mo. Not resigning Ingles was also to me a blunder.

[JF5]

I constantly emphasize that if basketball were as easy as 1-2 decisions everyone would have won a championship by now.

And in reality, that is exactly what I am saying. Cole, Black, Harris, Kcp, they can all step up maybe one night here one night there. But they are not anything close to consistent offense.

Suggs & Mo is like missing a 3rd 28 ppg scorer. OK thats not how it works, and yet it is how the math works IE you need to put the ball in the hole, and you are missing 28ppg of it.

Out of the playing roster on the backcourt I like Black the most. Highest upside if you will. Yet, he has missed maybe more then half of his opportunity for it to be "his time is now" moments.

Anyway. If it wasn't obvious I mostly agree.

While I was upset we didn't do something at the deadline for a shooter I was even more shocked that Weltman did absolutely nothing to replace the productivity of Mo Wagner. Mo was giving us off the bench consistent 13-18 ppg. Him and Suggs were big reason for that stretch where we were winning games. How can Weltman just leave that gap uncovered and expect us to win games?

Like you said, our top 3 and 4 scorers are out and we have don't nothing to replace those points. I cant imagine this will go on next year.

AB I have my reservations. Still young and can be solid player but right now is a bad fit next to paolo and franz. He issnt a PG and just a good defensive wing. He also just disappears when we play good teams. Prob bc he has no shot and when teams take away driving he is pretty much useless on offense. He can still be a rotation player here if we fill up other positions with actual shooters. However it would not surprise me if we trade him in package for better player.

While we might disagree on semantics we agree on premise.

We did 0 to replace Mo. Not resigning Ingles was also to me a blunder.

I honestly don't think it was a blunder. Ingles is absolutely cooked and just a vet guy. I think the team just wanted to give the younger guys a chance to expand their games.

Guys like Black, Da Silva, Howard, Suggs, and F. Wagner all got opportunities this season they likely would've not had if they signed multiple vets.

It worked out with Franz clearly. Everyone else not so much.

[ibraheim718]

Suggs has all but proved himself the most important piece of the puzzle. We are drastically better when he plays, even if he isn't the one getting all the stats like Franz/Paolo. Maybe we weren't actually better without Paolo, we just still had Suggs at the time.

I've calmly been saying this for a while now.

We are 11-20 without Mo.

9-17 without Suggs

The problem with Franz being out or Paolo being out is all the potential for overlap. But those to being out I think is the real reason. As many have said "the offense isn't there." Well. That's because your 1-4 best scorers respectively are injured and the rest just can't step up.

This is it right here. I keep forgetting about how good Mo was too. Those two guys are so passionate and competitive also.

[ibraheim718]

And all these drunk clowns all over the media not acknowledging that the only reason Curry got 56 is because Jalen Suggs wasn't playing. I would be my life he NEVER drops 50 on Jalen.

[pepe1991]

And all these drunk clowns all over the media not acknowledging that the only reason Curry got 56 is because Jalen Suggs wasn't playing. I would be my life he NEVER drops 50 on Jalen.

Go home Ibra you are drunk again.

Mitchell scored 50 on Suggs. In playoffs.

It's nba. Defending uber-guards is very hard task given all the ruls are bent to make them as unguardable as possible.

Curry last year grilled Orlando ( with Suggs) as well, had 36 points on 12-20 FG( 4-9 for 3).

Year prior (2022-23 season) , Curry had 39 points vs Magic on 13-22 FG (8-15 for 3) on 80% TS. Guess what ? Suggs played in that game too.

This is tradition, once a year, Curry goes supernova on us.

Would Suggs help team? Sure. But you literally had best shooter of all time making over half court 3 point shots, stepback, 40 footers, sent Banchero flying , stepback 3s, dribble pull ups. Guy is flat out impossible to guard once he gets going. That's why he is one of most unique & best players in history. You have to defend him with whole team and pray he does not go nuts.

At end of a day he is 4 times champion, former MVP and impact vise, person who changed nba forever.

[VFX]

And all these drunk clowns all over the media not acknowledging that the only reason Curry got 56 is because Jalen Suggs wasn't playing. I would be my life he NEVER drops 50 on Jalen.

Go home Ibra you are drunk again.

Mitchell scored 50 on Suggs. In playoffs.

It's nba. Defending uber-guards is very hard task given all the ruls are bent to make them as unguardable as possible.

Curry last year grilled Orlando ( with Suggs) as well, had 36 points on 12-20 FG( 4-9 for 3).

Year prior (2022-23 season) , Curry had 39 points vs Magic on 13-22 FG (8-15 for 3) on 80% TS. Guess what ? Suggs played in that game too.

This is tradition, once a year, Curry goes supernova on us.

Would Suggs help team? Sure. But you literally had best shooter of all time making over half court 3 point shots, stepback, 40 footers, sent Banchero flying , stepback 3s, dribble pull ups. Guy is flat out impossible to guard once he gets going. That's why he is one of most unique & best players in history. You have to defend him with whole team and pray he does not go nuts.

At end of a day he is 4 times champion, former MVP and impact vise, person who changed nba forever.

You mean Gary Harris.

Suggs was guarding Garland.

Curry isn’t dropping 56 on Suggs.

[yoyojw17]

Lol... I remember seeing them greeting at the end.... And I was like .. "draymond ... Play nice.... He's a magician for life"

But yup....he ain't wrong. The best version of Paolo has not hit the court yet. Actually ... Draymond would be a good person for him to visit on the summer too. Obviously not for the scoring ... And definitely not for the emotional tutelage.... But the defensive mentality and the offensive orchestration.

[ibraheim718]

And all these drunk clowns all over the media not acknowledging that the only reason Curry got 56 is because Jalen Suggs wasn't playing. I would be my life he NEVER drops 50 on Jalen.

Go home Ibra you are drunk again.

Mitchell scored 50 on Suggs. In playoffs.

It's nba. Defending uber-guards is very hard task given all the ruls are bent to make them as unguardable as possible.

Curry last year grilled Orlando ( with Suggs) as well, had 36 points on 12-20 FG( 4-9 for 3).

Year prior (2022-23 season) , Curry had 39 points vs Magic on 13-22 FG (8-15 for 3) on 80% TS. Guess what ? Suggs played in that game too.

This is tradition, once a year, Curry goes supernova on us.

Would Suggs help team? Sure. But you literally had best shooter of all time making over half court 3 point shots, stepback, 40 footers, sent Banchero flying , stepback 3s, dribble pull ups. Guy is flat out impossible to guard once he gets going. That's why he is one of most unique & best players in history. You have to defend him with whole team and pray he does not go nuts.

At end of a day he is 4 times champion, former MVP and impact vise, person who changed nba forever.

Okay.. A golden state article from their last matchup where Suggs held Steph to 17 points.

https://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2024/3/27/24114200/warriors-magic-101-93-steph-curry-andrew-wiggins-jalen-suggs-film-breakdown

The best screen navigator on the Magic — who has a legitimate argument for being the best screen navigator in the league (perhaps bested only by Derrick White) — is Jalen Suggs.

Suggs is getting All-Defensive-Team buzz, and rightfully so. He is a hound at the point of attack — mobile, agile, physical, and highly aware of his surroundings. He’s listed at 6’5” and is often tasked by the Magic to guard the opposing team’s best perimeter scorer/shot creator.

Whenever Suggs can stay attached to someone like this, he proves that he’s one of a few defenders in the league who are darn-near impossible to shake off:

As was the case in past contests, Suggs got the Steph Curry assignment — and as was the case in the clip above, he tried his hardest to stick to Curry like his life depended on it. He slithered his way past screens in a fundamentally sound manner (i.e., getting “skinny”), aided by his natural gifts as an athlete:

It’s virtually a death sentence of a possession if you find yourself having to dribble away from Suggs — towards an inanimate defender like the sideline or baseline. It’s fodder for Suggs to hound, trap (with the aid of a teammate) and blow up a possession:

The floor awareness is sublime. He keeps his attention evenly divided between Curry and the ball, enough for him to not be caught on the “Hammer” screen for Curry. He doesn’t run out of energy and verve after the Hammer action; he chases Curry on the DHO, and with the aid of teammates who step up to close Curry’s space around the handoff, Suggs is able to recover in time to help force the miss:It contributed to another overall off shooting night for Curry, who put up 17 points on 6-of-18 shooting (3-of-10 on twos, 3-of-8 on threes) and 45% True Shooting. In the grand scheme of the game, Curry had the requisite scoring support he needed to power through the Magic, who are the second-best defensive team in the league (111.6 defensive rating in non-garbage time). Four of his teammates put up double-digit scoring: Klay Thompson (15), Moses Moody (12), Gary Payton II (10), and — the one who carried the scoring load in the fourth quarter — Andrew Wiggins (23).

(More on Wiggins later, whose scoring was a much-needed boost.)

When the second half began, there was a noticeable effort to scheme half-court sets geared toward separating Suggs from Curry, in order to provide him with more breathing room. It wasn’t from completely novel sets that got him the space he needed — rather, it was slight tweaks to familiar sets that Steve Kerr used to scheme Suggs away from his superstar.

The first instance generated a wide-open look for Curry that just missed. But the process that led to it was sound:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/steph-curry-versus-jalen-suggs

Stfu. The difference between me and you is I actually know WTF I'm talking about and all you know how to do is hawk Boxscores and blab stats.

Mods.. because this little ninny is going to report me remember it was him who quoted me and inferred I was drunk.

[Bergmaniac]

We did 0 to replace Mo. Not resigning Ingles was also to me a blunder.

I loved Ingles, but he looked pretty cooked physically towards the end of last season and has looked even worse for Minny this year, he's pretty much never playing for them despite their injury issues and a desperate need for more playmaking and shooting. I watched one of the few games he got non-garbage minutes this year, he was -16 in just 9 minutes and just looked physically incapable to play in the NBA.

[pepe1991]

And all these drunk clowns all over the media not acknowledging that the only reason Curry got 56 is because Jalen Suggs wasn't playing. I would be my life he NEVER drops 50 on Jalen.

Go home Ibra you are drunk again.

Mitchell scored 50 on Suggs. In playoffs.

It's nba. Defending uber-guards is very hard task given all the ruls are bent to make them as unguardable as possible.

Curry last year grilled Orlando ( with Suggs) as well, had 36 points on 12-20 FG( 4-9 for 3).

Year prior (2022-23 season) , Curry had 39 points vs Magic on 13-22 FG (8-15 for 3) on 80% TS. Guess what ? Suggs played in that game too.

This is tradition, once a year, Curry goes supernova on us.

Would Suggs help team? Sure. But you literally had best shooter of all time making over half court 3 point shots, stepback, 40 footers, sent Banchero flying , stepback 3s, dribble pull ups. Guy is flat out impossible to guard once he gets going. That's why he is one of most unique & best players in history. You have to defend him with whole team and pray he does not go nuts.

At end of a day he is 4 times champion, former MVP and impact vise, person who changed nba forever.

You mean Gary Harris.

Suggs was guarding Garland.

Curry isn’t dropping 56 on Suggs.

Watch on YouTube

Suggs on him as primarly defender, but you can't guard Curry straight up. Warriors whole offense ( 4 championships) was made out of exploiting defense. Guarding him straight up is problematic because for moment you have to leave him open, if you switch ( and Magic, like most teams often do) , he attacks worst defender.


Steph & Suggs played just 3 times against each other.

Curry in those 3 games shot 15/ 31 ( 49% ) for 3 to go along 30,7 ppg.

I don't know why is this even a conversation. Key reason why he goes off against us ( with and without Suggs) is because we almost never use double teams on perimeter. It works often, we bet on notion our bigs can survive switch. But against Curry, it's just dumb bet to take. Case and point, 56 points game with mostly single coverage.