KD = Which 2025 1st?

[gswhoops]

Are you saying Jalen Green is a negative contract?

Yes.

I don't get it? He's on a 3 year deal he has two more after this one $36 million for 2 more years and seems to be a productive player. He just turned 23 averaging 21.6 pts, 36% 3pt shot and still developing. I don't think that's negative.

He's an inefficient volume scorer (barely over 55% TS, league average is around 58%; 27% USG) who turns the ball over a lot (11.6% TOV) and doesn't do anything else well. Doesn't defend, doesn't make opportunities for others, doesn't really stretch the floor. The biggest things holding Houston back right now are (1) the lack of a true #1 scoring option and (2) lack of outside shooting...which is, in theory, exactly what they're paying Green to do.

He's got 3 years left at an average of $35 million per year and his stats are basically indistinguishable from Jordan Poole, who this board treats as a given is one of the worst contracts in the league.

[basketballwacko2]

Yes.

I don't get it? He's on a 3 year deal he has two more after this one $36 million for 2 more years and seems to be a productive player. He just turned 23 averaging 21.6 pts, 36% 3pt shot and still developing. I don't think that's negative.

He's an inefficient volume scorer (barely over 55% TS, league average is around 58%; 27% USG) who turns the ball over a lot (11.6% TOV) and doesn't do anything else well. Doesn't defend, doesn't make opportunities for others, doesn't really stretch the floor. The biggest things holding Houston back right now are (1) the lack of a true #1 scoring option and (2) lack of outside shooting...which is, in theory, exactly what they're paying Green to do.

He's got 3 years left at an average of $35 million per year and his stats are basically indistinguishable from Jordan Poole, who this board treats as a given is one of the worst contracts in the league.

I'll admit I haven't watched him play, but he has 3 years and the final year is an Option year. If he continues to play well he'll likely opt out and sign a new longer term deal. So probably gonna be 2 years. The Rockets could just let him go or move him in 2025-26

[gswhoops]

I don't get it? He's on a 3 year deal he has two more after this one $36 million for 2 more years and seems to be a productive player. He just turned 23 averaging 21.6 pts, 36% 3pt shot and still developing. I don't think that's negative.

He's an inefficient volume scorer (barely over 55% TS, league average is around 58%; 27% USG) who turns the ball over a lot (11.6% TOV) and doesn't do anything else well. Doesn't defend, doesn't make opportunities for others, doesn't really stretch the floor. The biggest things holding Houston back right now are (1) the lack of a true #1 scoring option and (2) lack of outside shooting...which is, in theory, exactly what they're paying Green to do.

He's got 3 years left at an average of $35 million per year and his stats are basically indistinguishable from Jordan Poole, who this board treats as a given is one of the worst contracts in the league.

I'll admit I haven't watched him play, but he has 3 years and the final year is an Option year. If he continues to play well he'll likely opt out and sign a new longer term deal. So probably gonna be 2 years. The Rockets could just let him go or move him in 2025-26

The final year is a player option, which means that if he’s underperforming that number he’ll opt in and you’re stuck with him.

[tmorgan]

You want your shooters to have a short memory. Jalen Geeen has that. You also want your shooters to play with some consistency, and he definitely doesn’t have that.

There was a stat recently that the Rockets were 9-0 this year when Green scores 30+ points. On the surface, that makes him sound really important to Houston’s success. I started watching a few of their games just to check him out again and see how (or if) he’d come along as a player.

The answer, at least in my opinion, is that nothing much has changed. He’s an extremely fast and quick guy with insane levitation that isn’t using his physical gifts well at all. His defensive effort waxes and wanes, and when he beats his man his first thought is always, and I mean ALWAYS, try to score. Help defense messes him up badly, and teams can easily rotate over and then cover from the weak side because he almost never makes the pass to the newly open man. Guys like that are hella easy to defend in the playoffs unless their threes are falling.

So yeah, the Rockets are/were undefeated when Green gets 30 because that means he’s shooting and finishing well and it doesn’t matter that he’s a black hole on offense (this describes Whitmore, too, which is big part of Houston’s offensive inconsistency). He’s going to keep putting up contested shots even if he’s bricking, because that’s just who he is.

Houston needs to find a sucker that’ll pay positive value for him. I think league perception of him is such that that’s still possible. Replace him with points that play better defense and make a pass and they’ll get a lot closer to a real threat to the top teams.

[basketballwacko2]

He's an inefficient volume scorer (barely over 55% TS, league average is around 58%; 27% USG) who turns the ball over a lot (11.6% TOV) and doesn't do anything else well. Doesn't defend, doesn't make opportunities for others, doesn't really stretch the floor. The biggest things holding Houston back right now are (1) the lack of a true #1 scoring option and (2) lack of outside shooting...which is, in theory, exactly what they're paying Green to do.

He's got 3 years left at an average of $35 million per year and his stats are basically indistinguishable from Jordan Poole, who this board treats as a given is one of the worst contracts in the league.

I'll admit I haven't watched him play, but he has 3 years and the final year is an Option year. If he continues to play well he'll likely opt out and sign a new longer term deal. So probably gonna be 2 years. The Rockets could just let him go or move him in 2025-26

The final year is a player option, which means that if he’s underperforming that number he’ll opt in and you’re stuck with him.

Maybe I have him as neutral value due to the shortness of his contract 3 yrs $36 per is not terrible unless he's total trash which I don't think he is. At 23 he's got a lot of room to grow.

[basketballwacko2]

I'm not saying that Green is a star or a great player but in this time when the cap/tax is what it is he occupies a chuck of the cap for his team. I'd expect him to play out his deal with the Rockets, if he improves then he opts out of that last year. IF not he might opt in but could then have some value as an expiring contract.

[Slim Charless]

You want your shooters to have a short memory. Jalen Geeen has that. You also want your shooters to play with some consistency, and he definitely doesn’t have that.

There was a stat recently that the Rockets were 9-0 this year when Green scores 30+ points. On the surface, that makes him sound really important to Houston’s success. I started watching a few of their games just to check him out again and see how (or if) he’d come along as a player.

The answer, at least in my opinion, is that nothing much has changed. He’s an extremely fast and quick guy with insane levitation that isn’t using his physical gifts well at all. His defensive effort waxes and wanes, and when he beats his man his first thought is always, and I mean ALWAYS, try to score. Help defense messes him up badly, and teams can easily rotate over and then cover from the weak side because he almost never makes the pass to the newly open man. Guys like that are hella easy to defend in the playoffs unless their threes are falling.

So yeah, the Rockets are/were undefeated when Green gets 30 because that means he’s shooting and finishing well and it doesn’t matter that he’s a black hole on offense (this describes Whitmore, too, which is big part of Houston’s offensive inconsistency). He’s going to keep putting up contested shots even if he’s bricking, because that’s just who he is.

Houston needs to find a sucker that’ll pay positive value for him. I think league perception of him is such that that’s still possible. Replace him with points that play better defense and make a pass and they’ll get a lot closer to a real threat to the top teams.

Having him and Whitmore both is an issue for HOU and I will be absolutely shocked if both of them are still on that team come opening day. I think that cause of the picks they own from us, that KD is a legit option for them. I posted this in the Suns forum but I would do something along the lines of:

PHX-Durant
HOU-Our picks/Dillon Brooks/Jabari/Whitmore

Let's them keep Jalen and make him a secondary scorer with #1 possibity on those days that KD sits. They can also move Amen into the starting lineup for good and play him next to KD. They won't lose defense from Brooks as Amen is there and KD is a pretty good defender as well.

[Kiss of Death]

I doubt the Rockets trade those picks for Durant, especially considering they have to give up rotation players as well.
Booker is not exactly making the case for a high trade value lately either.

As I said before, the Rockets probably end up doing the same thing that they did in the Nets/Bridges situation:
Let someone else get the player while the Rockets stand on the sideline and upgrade the Suns picks (like they upgraded the Nets picks).

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[Frankie]

You want your shooters to have a short memory. Jalen Geeen has that. You also want your shooters to play with some consistency, and he definitely doesn’t have that.

There was a stat recently that the Rockets were 9-0 this year when Green scores 30+ points. On the surface, that makes him sound really important to Houston’s success. I started watching a few of their games just to check him out again and see how (or if) he’d come along as a player.

The answer, at least in my opinion, is that nothing much has changed. He’s an extremely fast and quick guy with insane levitation that isn’t using his physical gifts well at all. His defensive effort waxes and wanes, and when he beats his man his first thought is always, and I mean ALWAYS, try to score. Help defense messes him up badly, and teams can easily rotate over and then cover from the weak side because he almost never makes the pass to the newly open man. Guys like that are hella easy to defend in the playoffs unless their threes are falling.

So yeah, the Rockets are/were undefeated when Green gets 30 because that means he’s shooting and finishing well and it doesn’t matter that he’s a black hole on offense (this describes Whitmore, too, which is big part of Houston’s offensive inconsistency). He’s going to keep putting up contested shots even if he’s bricking, because that’s just who he is.

Houston needs to find a sucker that’ll pay positive value for him. I think league perception of him is such that that’s still possible. Replace him with points that play better defense and make a pass and they’ll get a lot closer to a real threat to the top teams.

Having him and Whitmore both is an issue for HOU and I will be absolutely shocked if both of them are still on that team come opening day. I think that cause of the picks they own from us, that KD is a legit option for them. I posted this in the Suns forum but I would do something along the lines of:

PHX-Durant
HOU-Our picks/Dillon Brooks/Jabari/Whitmore

Let's them keep Jalen and make him a secondary scorer with #1 possibity on those days that KD sits. They can also move Amen into the starting lineup for good and play him next to KD. They won't lose defense from Brooks as Amen is there and KD is a pretty good defender as well.

Your picks back plus Brooks, Jabari and Whitmore for KD is a disastrous deal for Houston.

[LarsV8]

Jalen Green just turned 23 years old, a full year younger than rookie Dalton Knecht. His contract is not for what he is, its for what he will be. Just perusing his peers, like Brown, Booker, Edwards, SGA, etc. Most of these guys had big leaps in age 23 season (which would be Jalen's next year), so to try to claim Green is a bad contract...is just odd. He didn't even get a max deal, he took less than max. Now, player options are always problematic, but this is hardly an albatross. Frankly its just about right for him. Its a "you have made great progress, but we are not fully convinced, lets stay the course, and the kick the can down the road a bit. We give you the player option, so if you keep improving, you can opt out and get a bigger deal since you enter the 30% max threshold, rather than the 25%". It's a good compromise that gives each party a carrot depending on how things go.

Jalen has certainly not shown he is in the highest tier of SGs, as you would hope, but he is nothing to scoff at, and he can still get there. He has improved across pretty much all metrics over this, and the prior 2 seasons. He hasn't even entered his prime, and there is no reason why he can't take additional steps forward in the next 3-4 years. His efficiency has improved across the board, while simultaneously seeing his free throw rate plummeting. Changing nothing else, and simply working on ways to draw fouls over the offseason, presents an easy path to continue making leaps.

He has also never been fortunate enough to play with a vertical spacer, or shot spacing big, which limits the room he has to work with going downhill. Outside of a short period last season, where Sengun was injured (And Green was awesome in this stretch), he has always played along side a paint clogger in Sengun. Furthermore, even the spacing from the non centers, has not been ideal. There are no deadeye shooters in the roster keeping help defenders honest. This is another easy opportunity, in tinkering roster construction, to empower Green and help make the game much much easier.

Now, while folks may try to paint him as a bad player, opposing coaches are not. They are treating him similar to the other premiere guards in the league.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Hell, lets just look at his last five games



Awesome in a blow out of San Antonio
Outplays Lillard in a close win over Milwaukee
Plays great in a loss to the Jazz
Outplays Ant in a good win over Minnesota
Very poor game in a loss to the Warriors.

You may think a 22 year old will not get significantly better, and take the under, that's completely fair. Its certainly possible he doesn't get better, and is the next mid tier Ingram or Barret, but history has shown us that is far from a finished book. Now I am not going to sit here and say you should value him, or you should trade for him, or whatever. But among the worst contracts in the league? Nah, not even close.

[Slim Charless]

Jalen Green just turned 23 years old, a full year younger than rookie Dalton Knecht. His contract is not for what he is, its for what he will be. Just perusing his peers, like Brown, Booker, Edwards, SGA, etc. Most of these guys had big leaps in age 23 season (which would be Jalen's next year), so to try to claim Green is a bad contract...is just odd. He didn't even get a max deal, he took less than max. Now, player options are always problematic, but this is hardly an albatross. Frankly its just about right for him. Its a "you have made great progress, but we are not fully convinced, lets stay the course, and the kick the can down the road a bit. We give you the player option, so if you keep improving, you can opt out and get a bigger deal since you enter the 30% max threshold, rather than the 25%". It's a good compromise that gives each party a carrot depending on how things go.

Jalen has certainly not shown he is in the highest tier of SGs, as you would hope, but he is nothing to scoff at, and he can still get there. He has improved across pretty much all metrics over this, and the prior 2 seasons. He hasn't even entered his prime, and there is no reason why he can't take additional steps forward in the next 3-4 years. His efficiency has improved across the board, while simultaneously seeing his free throw rate plummeting. Changing nothing else, and simply working on ways to draw fouls over the offseason, presents an easy path to continue making leaps.

He has also never been fortunate enough to play with a vertical spacer, or shot spacing big, which limits the room he has to work with going downhill. Outside of a short period last season, where Sengun was injured (And Green was awesome in this stretch), he has always played along side a paint clogger in Sengun. Furthermore, even the spacing from the non centers, has not been ideal. There are no deadeye shooters in the roster keeping help defenders honest. This is another easy opportunity, in tinkering roster construction, to empower Green and help make the game much much easier.

Now, while folks may try to paint him as a bad player, opposing coaches are not. They are treating him similar to the other premiere guards in the league.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Hell, lets just look at his last five games



Awesome in a blow out of San Antonio
Outplays Lillard in a close win over Milwaukee
Plays great in a loss to the Jazz
Outplays Ant in a good win over Minnesota
Very poor game in a loss to the Warriors.

You may think a 22 year old will not get significantly better, and take the under, that's completely fair. Its certainly possible he doesn't get better, and is the next mid tier Ingram or Barret, but history has shown us that is far from a finished book. Now I am not going to sit here and say you should value him, or you should trade for him, or whatever. But among the worst contracts in the league? Nah, not even close.

You're picking and choosing things here.

Facts are that he's a black hole-an inefficient one at that who cannot pass the ball to his teammates without almost immediatly asking for it back. He's bad defender, a bad facilitator, not the smartest player, and is best when the offense runs through him and only him.

To sum things up: He's selfish and not a team player.

He's been in the league for a number of years and shows very little progress on changing any of what I just posted. His deal is not a good one, and while I won't say he's a massively negative value guy, he most certainly is not a lynchpin in any sort of trade to get a better player. Of which there are many....including some that have been suggested many times in this very forum. By you.


He's very Jordan Poole-like to me. Last year's version of Poole. Or post-Draymond punch version of Poole. But more selfish.

[LarsV8]

You're picking and choosing things here.

Facts are that he's a black hole-an inefficient one at that who cannot pass the ball to his teammates without almost immediatly asking for it back. He's bad defender, a bad facilitator, not the smartest player, and is best when the offense runs through him and only him.

To sum things up: He's selfish and not a team player.

He's been in the league for a number of years and shows very little progress on changing any of what I just posted. His deal is not a good one, and while I won't say he's a massively negative value guy, he most certainly is not a lynchpin in any sort of trade to get a better player. Of which there are many....including some that have been suggested many times in this very forum. By you.


He's very Jordan Poole-like to me. Last year's version of Poole. Or post-Draymond punch version of Poole.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion.

Enjoy the rest of your season.

[Frankie]

damn Green being selfish and not a team player is certainly an interesting take

[Astaluego]

If Jalen Green is selfish, I guess it's because that's what Udoka asks of him. There's no way he'd be averaging 33 minutes if he didn't follow Ime's orders. He may not be ready to be a key player on a contender, but in my opinion he has a market and someone would give him a positive value (I see comparisons to Poole, but no one mentions that Jalen can defend himself,).. The Hornets/Nop/Bulls or even the Pistons wouldn't pay to have him.

[Slim Charless]

If Jalen Green is selfish, I guess it's because that's what Udoka asks of him. There's no way he'd be averaging 33 minutes if he didn't follow Ime's orders. He may not be ready to be a key player on a contender, but in my opinion he has a market and someone would give him a positive value (I see comparisons to Poole, but no one mentions that Jalen can defend himself,).. The Hornets/Nop/Bulls or even the Pistons wouldn't pay to have him.

They need someone who can score and he can do that. It's the only thing he can do. Even though he's inefficient at it.

Even chuckers are useful if they are the only one who can score....

[Slim Charless]

:lol: damn Green being selfish and not a team player is certainly an interesting take

How is he not?

3.1 assist this year. 3.5 less year. Have you not watched him play? Did he seem like he's interested in getting his teammates involved?

[K_chile22]

damn Green being selfish and not a team player is certainly an interesting take

How is he not?

3.1 assist this year. 3.5 less year. Have you not watched him play? Did he seem like he's interested in getting his teammates involved?

He just has low feel and is a bad passer. Doesn't necessarily mean he's selfish. Cam Whitmore for example is selfish, he's shown flashes that tell me he can make some very nice passes he just doesn't want to. Jalen would like to make passes but he can't. Which is worse idk but it's different

[Slim Charless]

damn Green being selfish and not a team player is certainly an interesting take

How is he not?

3.1 assist this year. 3.5 less year. Have you not watched him play? Did he seem like he's interested in getting his teammates involved?

He just has low feel and is a bad passer. Doesn't necessarily mean he's selfish. Cam Whitmore for example is selfish, he's shown flashes that tell me he can make some very nice passes he just doesn't want to. Jalen would like to make passes but he can't. Which is worse idk but it's different

I give Cam a pass actually. He never plays and is a 2nd year player. Jalen has no excuse. He's been in the league long enough. Plus, wasn't he a PG coming out?

[K_chile22]

How is he not?

3.1 assist this year. 3.5 less year. Have you not watched him play? Did he seem like he's interested in getting his teammates involved?

He just has low feel and is a bad passer. Doesn't necessarily mean he's selfish. Cam Whitmore for example is selfish, he's shown flashes that tell me he can make some very nice passes he just doesn't want to. Jalen would like to make passes but he can't. Which is worse idk but it's different

I give Cam a pass actually. He never plays and is a 2nd year player. Jalen has no excuse. He's been in the league long enough. Plus, wasn't he a PG coming out?

Nobody was ever calling him a PG

[Mr Puddles]

The fact that almost a 5th of the people here have voted 15-20 pick just goes to show the bias around here.

Imagine if the Nuggets ended up with the 20th pick, and the Suns offered them KD. Denver would laugh their asses off in disbelieve at the absolute steal they're getting.