Can We All Admit...

[YogurtProducer]

Regardless of where we sit on the TWO vs Play-in spectrum (although I hope by this point of the season there is very few cheering for W's), I think we can all agree that watching/cheering for this stuff sucks

The fact that the NBA has created a system in which teams are incentivized to simply be bad is just horrible for the NBA product. This isn't a "DOES TANKING WORK OR NOT" thread, but rather a "**** me, wouldn't the end of this season be a lot more fun if we could play the youth and not feel conflicted about winning a game?"

Making a run at the play-in would legitimately be fun to cheer for if it didn't have the negative consequences going forward.

Personally, I would love to see the lottery odds flattened more. Maybe every non-playoff team and play-in team gets lottery odds. Anything to stop teams from pulling the plug for 25 games a year (or 82 - looking at you Washington).

[ChillPill]

What're you talking about? I'm having a grand old time on here, rehashing the same tanking debates, instead of watching meaningful games.

[MEDIC]

I agree. I watch basketball.......because I like basketball........and I like good basketball.

Raptors could have won that game easily if they played winning lineups.

The good news is the season is almost over & this team looks to be much better than the Bulls. Add BI & the pick & its going to be a really fun season next year.

[Tor_Raps]

I actually agree... we should never be cheering nor should front offices have incentives to lose games in professional sports. The relegation system in Europe is amazing but would obviously never fly here.

Maybe have equal odds for all non playoff teams and different odds for teams who make the playoffs via the play-in. Need to stop rewarding teams from being incompetent either by purpose or in general lol.

[Psubs]

Maybe flatten them slightly? 10-10-10-10-9-8-7-6-5-4 leaves 15% left for those 4 teams that lose the play-in games. Hmmmm.

10-10-10-10-10-9-8-7-6-5, so 3.75% for the 4 teams that lose the play-in.

[TorontoBarneys]

Yes, the lottery system the way it's set up blows.

The original point of it was supposed to be, on average, giving the biggest reward to the weakest teams in order to increase parity. That system has 2 flawed assumptions:

1.) Lottery rankings are actually indicative of real team strength.
2.) That the luck of the draw won't majorly benefit teams far stronger than the "weakest" team on occasion and ruin this kind of system.

It's all a huge mess. I don't know why they still keep doing it. SIlver is incompetent. I genuinely wish teams did not feel the need to tank.

[MiamiSPX]

Even though it is going to benefit us this year, I do want to see it changed. It’s so stupid. We have fans cheering for losses, and even some fans already upset because we likely won’t be this bad next year. That is pretty F’d up IMO.

I am loving the results but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want them to pull it out when they have a chance, especially against a hated team. I loved that win against the Celtics last month. IMO you should always be happy when your team beats a hated divisional rival. If that doesn’t make me a “true” tanker, so be it lol.

Having said that, I am not telling anyone how to be a fan. The hardcore homers are just as nauseating to me too.

[YogurtProducer]

Yes, the lottery system the way it's set up blows.

The original point of it was supposed to be, on average, giving the biggest reward to the weakest teams in order to increase parity. That system has 2 flawed assumptions:

1.) Lottery rankings are actually indicative of real team strength.
2.) That the luck of the draw won't majorly benefit teams far stronger than the "weakest" team on occasion and ruin this kind of system.

It's all a huge mess. I don't know why they still keep doing it. SIlver is incompetent. I genuinely wish teams did not feel the need to tank.

Not really Silvers fault, the current system is better than no lottery at all at least and he has been making moves in the right direction.

But your point #1 is huge. A team who has one guy get injured suddenly gets massive benefit from the lottery system despite really going into the next season they truly were not the worst team. The Raptors are actually a good example of this - we all know this team isn't actually bottom 5 talent wise.

Personally though, I am fine with #2. I would have no issues with a completely flat odd lottery in which the top 5 picks were all done by the lottery. This would incentivize bad teams to improve, not get worse.

Again, we are good example of this. We traded away Davion for nothing, and sat out Brown/Kelly half the season because them playing made us better. A flatter lottery system would improve EVERYTHING. Prospects would immediately come into better situations, teams wouldn't need to bottom out, we wouldn't see gross late season tank fests, etc.

[notagenius]

I've been avoiding watching the raps play this year because I'm rooting for losses.

Just feels weird hoping we lose when watching. Not enjoyable at all.


Sent from my SM-S918W using RealGM mobile app

[Zeno]

Obviously I agree 100% on this situation being horrible. But as far as flattening the odds, I think it is less important than simply running the lottery 13 times instead of 4 times to set the post lottery positioning.

[YogurtProducer]

Obviously I agree 100% on this situation being horrible. But as far as flattening the odds, I think it is less important than simply running the lottery 13 times instead of 4 times to set the post lottery positioning.

Never considered this really. Don't hate it.

I honestly wouldn't mind expanding the lottery to all 30 teams either with the added part that a team cannot move up more than say 13 spots in the lottery to prevent elite teams from getting the #1 pick. But really, why should the 9 seed get lottery odds but not the 8 seed? Is the 8 seed really fundamentally better?

[ArthurVandelay]

I enjoy watching the team grow and develop.

It’s all part of it.

Once they start winning, it will just make it all the sweeter.

And then I can taunt and label all the casuals who come back about how I’m a better fan because I stuck with the Raptors through good times and bad

[Johnny Bball]

Was thinking the same. Watching them find ways to lose late is gruelling. Watching them get blown out from the start is gruelling. The only winning move is not to play.

[planetmars]

The most fair system is no draft and to just have free agency for the new guys entering the league. If Toronto wants Flagg they should open up cap space and give him a big chunk of that to get him. If a kid like Ace or Harper wants to go to LA they can get there for the tax payer mid level (for example). I'm sure Flagg wouldn't want to end up in Charlotte or New Orleans to start his career, so this helps the player too.

But if you really want to get rid of tanking then they need to reward teams with higher picks that win more games. So in this scenario the Cavs and Thunder would get the top 2 picks. The bad teams would need to find ways to build there teams better using free agency and trades as oppose to the draft. Perhaps the league can give the worst teams another exception (say an extra MLE bonus) for that season to help them out that way. And the value of that exception degrades the better the team is. I don't think teams would tank for a larger mid-level exception. Yet it gives teams something to help them get out of a potential rut. And would also help prevent squeezing out the mid-level guys too much.

People won't want to see that either, but hey it will get rid of tanking 100%. The other option is you just have a random draw between all 30 teams for all 30 picks. And so the Cavs could still end up with Flagg. But the odds would be 1 in 30 or about 3% for every team in the league.

[Rapsfan07]

I actually don't mind the current lottery system.

How else are small market teams like the Hornets supposed to get elite talent?

[PushDaRock]

Obviously I agree 100% on this situation being horrible. But as far as flattening the odds, I think it is less important than simply running the lottery 13 times instead of 4 times to set the post lottery positioning.

I like this idea, but side effect might be teams actively trying to avoid the 7 and 8 seed. Gaining some playoff experience and getting curb stomped by the 1 & 2 seed seems less beneficial than participating in the lottery in most instances.

[djsunyc]

as a fan, you have zero impact on how the team functions. you have no impact on coaching, playing, winning, losing and putting a team together. i think those are undisputed facts.

once you accept that, then how you watch the team is purely your own choice and preference - often tied into your personality. but i guess maybe i should first ask "can you accept that?"

the purpose of sports is to win the game. if you have no say in anything, then why choose to take such strong stances if it doesn't have any real world impact? no reason to be radicalized on any of it.

what's even more trippy is that this very organization - the one you all follow 24/7 365 won a ton of games and won a chip using multiple methods so there's actual proof, right here at home, that anything can happen.

[TimeForChange]

every major sport does the same when it comes to the draft, with the nba actually having a lottery.

the issue is more so the college game. every year their are only a handful of basketball players who can truly make an impact on a teams future trajectory.

you don't see blatent tanking in the nfl because you could draft a difference maker in the middle of the first round. hell, in the nfl you can get a difference maker in the third and fourth rounds.

in the NBA, finishing at the bottom of the lottery or just outside of the lottery is a curse. it means your team had a terrible season, and you're just drafting a player who probably won't ever become a starter for your team. but you're stuck paying him as a first rounder for 3 or 4 years.

[earth007]

I agree. And it will be good for the league too. I really hope Silver does something to fix it soon.

[kalel123]

This is called bitching for the sake of b*ing. I mean, what if they flatten the odds more and one year, we happen to be legit real bad? And we are out of top 5? Then someone's going to complain about flattened odds and how a team like us is supposed to get better when you got teams that barely missed playoffs getting top picks? There's no perfectly fair system. You just have to endure and play the long game. Right now, that is to hope we lose as many games as possible for remainder of the season despite the schedule. No pain, no gain so-to-speak.