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PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition

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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#181 » by KnixinSix » Sat Mar 1, 2025 5:42 pm

spree2kawhi wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
I feel the team make up without the elite rim protector could most definitely be coached up better by a coach other than Thibs. But give Thibs Mitch back and we have a chance to be dominant again.

It was his first game back and we saw glimpses of what his impact will be (just like in past years)


It's a high risk high reward move if he can stay healthy. The impact remains to be seen but, it looks good getting his feet wet.

This is a different team with him and when healthy, he is more imposing than a Kessler or Richards. I’ll gladly take the physicality and offensive rebounding too and would love to see him next to Towns some.

To me, this season has to be graded incomplete up to this point, and we’ll see now how the pieces fall into place. I’m still very optimistic about this roster.


The roster was CRYING out for the elite rim protector all year. Except for a game here and there You could see how badly we needed it almost on a game togame basis.

The encouraging thing is Mitch looks to be a fantastic shape. Hopefully this translates to sustained health for him for the 25ish games left and the playoffs.

If it does I think we have a chance to be near dominant again defensively which is about 2-3 notches up from where we are now.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#182 » by KnixinSix » Sat Mar 1, 2025 5:58 pm

Gravy wrote:
rajajackal wrote:
Gravy wrote:Mitch is back one game and makes an immediate positive impact. Really show the disparity with and without a shot blocker.

Knicks fans very very slowly learning that having good defensive players makes the defense good.

if you think about it we've lacked muscle without mitch and/or randle (before this stirs undue conversation i am a proponent of the kat trade and am way more excited about mitch/kat than i was hartenstein/randle)

we got a bruiser back let's go to work

Randle was averaging 10 rebounds a game here at pf which people dismissed. Our current power forward OG is at 4.6 rebounds, Josh Hart is at 9.7 which is why Thibs had to put him back in the game. We got out rebounded 58-35 and that almost cost us. The team has missed the size and muscle from last season.


Lets not forget Robinson is a monster rebounder too.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#183 » by JayTWill » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:03 pm

I'm glad to have Mitch back. It's just one game. I'm not going to overreact and say this team is so much better with Mitch at the 5 instead of KAT. It's too early to tell. They just blew out this same Memphis team a month ago without Mitch. Having Mitch back adds another tool for Thibs to use. He looks to be in good shape. Hopefully he can stay healthy and improve his conditioning to play a bigger role. He clearly gives the team more defensive upside than KAT does.

What is going to happen with Precious now? Even with KAT and Hart in foul trouble, Huk injured and Mitch still on a minutes restriction Precious only got 4 minutes of play. Thibs didn't play him at the 4 at all. He may be out of the rotation once again this year with the return of Mitch. If that is the case why hold onto him at the trade deadline? Could they have gotten something better with Precious' contract instead of or along with Sims' or were they both not desired by other teams?

Maybe Thibs will use Precious situationally but he gave minutes to Shamet as an undersized 3 and Hart as an undersized 4 against Memphis and their huge frontline and he had just started using KAT at the 4 in the last month. Maybe I am overreacting to Precious' minutes in this 1 game. I don't know
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#184 » by sol537 » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:05 pm

Mitch at the 5 over KAT was night and day on defense… damn. Hoping we can see the both of them together for stretches. Hart has been pretty awful lately in his current role.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#185 » by Knick4Real » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:14 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
RHODEY wrote:



Mitch is back, Knicks win against a tough opponent and Embiid's career is in shambles. What a wild 24 hours this has been.


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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#186 » by knicks94 » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:20 pm

If collecting $51 million dollars to sit down and do nothing for 24 games is karma then sign me up for it.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#187 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:25 pm

The final 4 minutes of the game. The final minute was insane. Brunson and OG’s 3 pointers saved us.

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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#188 » by HEZI » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:26 pm

RHODEY wrote:
HEZI wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
If he's at 50 percent overall and playing elite defense versus Jah Morant as your 3rd option ...trash is way too strong of a word.


His offense has been trash. 15 points on 14 shot attempts. If you look at the whole month it’s pretty much been that way. He’s averaging 15 points on 13.5 shots and only shooting 32% from 3. As the schedule has gotten tougher his production has fallen off


Show me how ma y other "4th options" are doing better? And the previous game he gave us
28 Points, 2 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 2 Steals, 1 Block, 1 Personal Foul, 1 Turnover, 12-18 FG (66.7%), 3-5 3PT (60%), 1-2 FT (50%), +1 in 41 minutes

How many can do this to Ja Morant?


And keep in mind he saved the game last night because of another stellar defensive play versus Morant..

So if you focus on the OVERALL package I think you are being way too critical.


But he’s not a fourth option here, he’s 3rd. Sure he had a good game offensively against Philly, no how about the game before that? Game before that? Or the one before that? You can’t ignore his inconsistency and bad he’s been all month especially versus the top of the league teams. He struggles a lot versus top teams and that’s the whole point of addressing his offensive issues.

You bringing up what he does defensively doesn’t do anything here since my original argument was that he’s made huge improvements defensively and for that reason you keep him in the starting lineup over Hart despite how trash his offense has been. The issue you took was with the offense being trash part so highlighting his defense is not relevant here since we both agree his defense has been good.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#189 » by Spree2Houston » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:27 pm

Surprised NoDope hasn’t said anything. He’s Mitch’s biggest fan
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#190 » by Spree2Houston » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:32 pm

If Mitch could ever stay healthy he’s the modern day Dennis Rodman
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#191 » by JayTWill » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:33 pm

HEZI wrote:
JayTWill wrote:
HEZI wrote:
It is especially if he’s going 0-5 from 3. He has no handle and can’t dribble without looking like he’s about to lose the ball so most times when he attempts to and the defense applies even a little pressure he has to pick up his dribble and pass. He’s very weak and doesn’t attack the rim with the ball at all whatsoever. Certain things he tries to do offensively just annoy me


He is shooting well above league average at the rim, in the midrange and on the corner three. The only place he is struggling is the above the break three. He is also doing that while being the primary point of attack defender against everyone from Morant to Tatum for 38 minutes per game while being surrounded by weak defenders like Brunson, KAT and whatever it is that Hart does defensively.

Do people think we traded for Mikal Bridges or a version of prime Kawhi Leonard that never misses games while also leading the league in minutes? What more should be expected from the 3rd option in a Thibs offense? His defense could be better at times but what lockdown defenders are playing point of attack defense for the majority of their 38 minutes per game and giving you good offense too?


He’s more of a 4th option rather than a 3rd option and that’s kind of the problem. What mismatches does he create offensively for any matchup? None. He’s heavily reliant on a system or other players to create looks for him and struggles to do any of it on his own. This is not good for a deep playoff run when the team overall lacks ball handling and shot creation. As Brunson will see more traps, it will force guys like Bridges to create for themselves and he’s just not good at that. You look at teams like Boston and Cleveland, their 3rd guy is KP and Mobley. They have multiple guards/wings who can create for themselves and others and they have versatility that we just don’t.

Bridges would be ok if we had that 2nd perimeter guy but we don’t and he has to be it and that’s just not his strength


4th option? He is not an isolation player but he seems to be able to get to his spots in the midrange with the use of a screen where he is highly efficient. Even if he couldn't create his own offense and was almost completely dependent on the system and others to create offense for him how does that make him a bad 3rd option? Isn't that the point of having an offensive system and options 1 and 2?

I agree that the team could use another ball handler/shot creator since they don't really have an offensive system and KAT doesn't really do that as a 2nd option but that still doesn't make Mikal a bad 3rd option. That just makes the Knicks a poorly constructed team in some ways. KP is assisted on 85% of his shots. Mikal is assisted on 77% of his shots. KP is dependent on others creating for him too. He is great in his role when he is on the court. Mikal needs to improve his above the break 3 but there have been plenty of games where he actually looks better when he has a larger role in the offense.

Expecting the guy that is behind Brunson, Hart, KAT, Payne and McBride in ball handling responsibility to be creating offense for himself and others seems odd. Shouldn't the guys that actually handle the ball be better at creating?

He didn't have a great game from 3 yesterday with a few difficult attempts but where in these highlights do you see a guy struggling to get his shot off or dribble without almost turning it over? He is actually performing better with more dribbles in these clips. He is not someone that is just going to hijack the offense. He plays his role.

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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#192 » by RHODEY » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:38 pm

HEZI wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
HEZI wrote:
His offense has been trash. 15 points on 14 shot attempts. If you look at the whole month it’s pretty much been that way. He’s averaging 15 points on 13.5 shots and only shooting 32% from 3. As the schedule has gotten tougher his production has fallen off


Show me how ma y other "4th options" are doing better? And the previous game he gave us
28 Points, 2 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 2 Steals, 1 Block, 1 Personal Foul, 1 Turnover, 12-18 FG (66.7%), 3-5 3PT (60%), 1-2 FT (50%), +1 in 41 minutes

How many can do this to Ja Morant?


And keep in mind he saved the game last night because of another stellar defensive play versus Morant..

So if you focus on the OVERALL package I think you are being way too critical.


But he’s not a fourth option here, he’s 3rd. Sure he had a good game offensively against Philly, no how about the game before that? Game before that? Or the one before that? You can’t ignore his inconsistency and bad he’s been all month especially versus the top of the league teams. He struggles a lot versus top teams and that’s the whole point of addressing his offensive issues.

You bringing up what he does defensively doesn’t do anything here since my original argument was that he’s made huge improvements defensively and for that reason you keep him in the starting lineup over Hart despite how trash his offense has been. The issue you took was with the offense being trash part so highlighting his defense is not relevant here since we both agree his defense has been good.


Ok man..its cool. Ill move on.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#193 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sat Mar 1, 2025 6:58 pm

JayTWill wrote:
HEZI wrote:
JayTWill wrote:
He is shooting well above league average at the rim, in the midrange and on the corner three. The only place he is struggling is the above the break three. He is also doing that while being the primary point of attack defender against everyone from Morant to Tatum for 38 minutes per game while being surrounded by weak defenders like Brunson, KAT and whatever it is that Hart does defensively.

Do people think we traded for Mikal Bridges or a version of prime Kawhi Leonard that never misses games while also leading the league in minutes? What more should be expected from the 3rd option in a Thibs offense? His defense could be better at times but what lockdown defenders are playing point of attack defense for the majority of their 38 minutes per game and giving you good offense too?


He’s more of a 4th option rather than a 3rd option and that’s kind of the problem. What mismatches does he create offensively for any matchup? None. He’s heavily reliant on a system or other players to create looks for him and struggles to do any of it on his own. This is not good for a deep playoff run when the team overall lacks ball handling and shot creation. As Brunson will see more traps, it will force guys like Bridges to create for themselves and he’s just not good at that. You look at teams like Boston and Cleveland, their 3rd guy is KP and Mobley. They have multiple guards/wings who can create for themselves and others and they have versatility that we just don’t.

Bridges would be ok if we had that 2nd perimeter guy but we don’t and he has to be it and that’s just not his strength


4th option? He is not an isolation player but he seems to be able to get to his spots in the midrange with the use of a screen where he is highly efficient. Even if he couldn't create his own offense and was almost completely dependent on the system and others to create offense for him how does that make him a bad 3rd option? Isn't that the point of having an offensive system and options 1 and 2?

I agree that the team could use another ball handler/shot creator since they don't really have an offensive system and KAT doesn't really do that as a 2nd option but that still doesn't make Mikal a bad 3rd option. That just makes the Knicks a poorly constructed team in some ways. KP is assisted on 85% of his shots. Mikal is assisted on 77% of his shots. KP is dependent on others creating for him too. He is great in his role when he is on the court. Mikal needs to improve his above the break 3 but there have been plenty of games where he actually looks better when he has a larger role in the offense.

Expecting the guy that is behind Brunson, Hart, KAT, Payne and McBride in ball handling responsibility to be creating offense for himself and others seems odd. Shouldn't the guys that actually handle the ball be better at creating?

He didn't have a great game from 3 yesterday with a few difficult attempts but where in these highlights do you see a guy struggling to get his shot off or dribble without almost turning it over? He is actually performing better with more dribbles in these clips. He is not someone that is just going to hijack the offense. He plays his role.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022400856&PlayerID=1628969&RangeType=0&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game




With the Nets he was the PnR ball handler on 27.3% and 23.7% frequency, with us he's down to 9.8%. Desmond Bane can barely dribble, but he's running PnR as the ball handler 20.4%, and Anthony Black who can't shoot is at 33% with the Magic.


They don't use him in anyway that really benefits him, like you said. We don't take a high volume of threes, and we don't spam PnR, we're 18th in the league in PnR frequency. It's just a talent based offense that leans towards isolation, which isn't his strong suit.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#194 » by Capn'O » Sat Mar 1, 2025 7:06 pm

rajajackal wrote:side note the true mitch island was the ones holding it down when this whole forum became schoolgirls for "isaiah hartenstein" :lol:


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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#195 » by BKlutch » Sat Mar 1, 2025 7:11 pm

RHODEY wrote:


They could only look and waive goodbye to that ball.

Watching this, it seems Mitch holds the ball more than a foot higher than KAT does. Ain't nobody getting in the way of that.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#196 » by 3toheadmelo » Sat Mar 1, 2025 7:21 pm

rajajackal wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
rajajackal wrote:i know how you feel about kat at center and our defense - i think you've been largely vindicated about that tbh. there are still advantages to kat logging minutes at center whether it's the starting minutes or in the 3rd rotation. i'm ready to see him sharing a lot of time with mitch in any case. i think it might need to be with the starting lineup though cause mitch is most needed when kat and jb are sharing the floor

side note the true mitch island was the ones holding it down when this whole forum became schoolgirls for "isaiah hartenstein" :lol:

There are advantages of KAT at C but I just don't think it's good enough to make up for his lack of defense unfortuantely. Maybe in small stints you can get away with it but not at full time. We def need to start Mitch next to him.

Tbf Hartenstein was solid for us and he was somewhat of an offensive threat which we haven't had from a C in a min. Sucks he left but it is what it is. I'm team mitch now lol 8-)

i liked hartenstein too but i always felt what he contributed was more replaceable than the sort of freak of nature presence and quick instinct mitch has. people were wyling on here last year acting like mitch was disposable and like we should have made more cap space for "isaiah hartenstein" :lol:

I think people were just frustrated with a couple of things with Mitch : being injury prone, gaining tons of weight, cryptic ig posts, and his ymca clips lol. But in shape mitch is easily a much better defender than ihart for sure. If mitch can stay healthy and in shape, i doubt there would be much complaints about him. He helped anchor a bunch of top defensive teams as a knick. I almost forgot about how good he was defensively until I saw him last night. Boy did we miss him all season.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#197 » by BKlutch » Sat Mar 1, 2025 7:24 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
RHODEY wrote:



Mitch is back, Knicks win against a tough opponent and Embiid's career is in shambles. What a wild 24 hours this has been.

We couldn't have asked for any better revenge Karma than this, because Embiid destroyed his own body - nobody had to do payback, and we got the better player back.

This also means we can match up against Jarret Allen in Cleveland and maybe be competitive.

Did you notice how much bigger Mitch plays than KAT?
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#198 » by 3toheadmelo » Sat Mar 1, 2025 7:27 pm

Spree2Houston wrote:Surprised NoDope hasn’t said anything. He’s Mitch’s biggest fan

My guy nodope is going through a rough patch right now. His takes on KAT being able to anchor a defense at the 5 aged like milk, the whole board is screaming we need mitch, and most importantly sham gets to run his victory laps. Praying for my dawg nodope to get through this difficult time. :D
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#199 » by BKlutch » Sat Mar 1, 2025 7:28 pm

TKKnicks1 wrote:So looks like Timmy is going with Mitch/OG/Hart/Mikal/Deuce to get a stop defensively when we need one. Its sad that you're best two players are on the bench.

Don't feel so sad. When he's recovered, Mitch's minutes can be all given to Hukporti. :lol: :lol:
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#200 » by Knicks Byke » Sat Mar 1, 2025 7:29 pm

Undefeated with Mitch.

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