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PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition

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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#221 » by Buttah304 » Sat Mar 1, 2025 9:27 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Besides Brunson and OG being clutch at the end, the real difference maker in this game was Deuce.

Who should be starting.


Between McBride deserving more minutes and the Knicks FO most likely hoping to target another C in the mold of iHart/Mitch (but healthy) - I’m not gonna be surprised if the guy who ends up getting traded is Josh Hart. OG means too much from a defense and Xs/Os standpoint and Mikal was brought in and 4 unprotected picks went out. Leon is ruthless so him being on a podcast with the chosen one means nothing to me. If Rose identifies an opportunity he would trade his mother in a deal.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#222 » by HEZI » Sat Mar 1, 2025 9:30 pm

JayTWill wrote:
HEZI wrote:
JayTWill wrote:
He is shooting well above league average at the rim, in the midrange and on the corner three. The only place he is struggling is the above the break three. He is also doing that while being the primary point of attack defender against everyone from Morant to Tatum for 38 minutes per game while being surrounded by weak defenders like Brunson, KAT and whatever it is that Hart does defensively.

Do people think we traded for Mikal Bridges or a version of prime Kawhi Leonard that never misses games while also leading the league in minutes? What more should be expected from the 3rd option in a Thibs offense? His defense could be better at times but what lockdown defenders are playing point of attack defense for the majority of their 38 minutes per game and giving you good offense too?


He’s more of a 4th option rather than a 3rd option and that’s kind of the problem. What mismatches does he create offensively for any matchup? None. He’s heavily reliant on a system or other players to create looks for him and struggles to do any of it on his own. This is not good for a deep playoff run when the team overall lacks ball handling and shot creation. As Brunson will see more traps, it will force guys like Bridges to create for themselves and he’s just not good at that. You look at teams like Boston and Cleveland, their 3rd guy is KP and Mobley. They have multiple guards/wings who can create for themselves and others and they have versatility that we just don’t.

Bridges would be ok if we had that 2nd perimeter guy but we don’t and he has to be it and that’s just not his strength


4th option? He is not an isolation player but he seems to be able to get to his spots in the midrange with the use of a screen where he is highly efficient. Even if he couldn't create his own offense and was almost completely dependent on the system and others to create offense for him how does that make him a bad 3rd option? Isn't that the point of having an offensive system and options 1 and 2?

I agree that the team could use another ball handler/shot creator since they don't really have an offensive system and KAT doesn't really do that as a 2nd option but that still doesn't make Mikal a bad 3rd option. That just makes the Knicks a poorly constructed team in some ways. KP is assisted on 85% of his shots. Mikal is assisted on 77% of his shots. KP is dependent on others creating for him too. He is great in his role when he is on the court. Mikal needs to improve his above the break 3 but there have been plenty of games where he actually looks better when he has a larger role in the offense.

Expecting the guy that is behind Brunson, Hart, KAT, Payne and McBride in ball handling responsibility to be creating offense for himself and others seems odd. Shouldn't the guys that actually handle the ball be better at creating?

He didn't have a great game from 3 yesterday with a few difficult attempts but where in these highlights do you see a guy struggling to get his shot off or dribble without almost turning it over? He is actually performing better with more dribbles in these clips. He is not someone that is just going to hijack the offense. He plays his role.

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Because look at the competition. Boston for example has how many guards and forwards that can put the ball on the floor, drive, shoot, pass? You bringing up KP which is a great example. He is giving Boston more production in only 28 minutes than Mikal is doing in 38 minutes. So yes when you want to evaluate what the Knicks are missing and what Mikal fails to provide then yes for our team he’s not a good 3rd option. We need more from that role than he can provide. And no I don’t mean a random night against Charlotte or Philly, I mean against your top competitors who you likely will have to go through in the playoffs. The red flags are all there right now so I don’t expect things to change much in the playoffs.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#223 » by K_ick_God » Sat Mar 1, 2025 9:38 pm

Our Bridges and Towns are under attack by Terrible People, like Ukraine.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#224 » by Gravy » Sat Mar 1, 2025 9:44 pm

Spree2Houston wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Spree2Houston wrote:Surprised NoDope hasn’t said anything. He’s Mitch’s biggest fan

My guy nodope is going through a rough patch right now. His takes on KAT being able to anchor a defense at the 5 aged like milk, the whole board is screaming we need mitch, and most importantly sham gets to run his victory laps. Praying for my dawg nodope to get through this difficult time. :D


lol yeah the Thibs deflection/Mitch slander on this board couldn’t cover how bad KAT was defensively at the 5. I tried giving it a shot but man I never want to go through that again

They was blaming Thibs for KAT being the worst defender in the league! Writing wild essays about how to fix him.

"Thibs needs to switch KAT in his blitz package and flagellate the zone..."

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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#225 » by spree2kawhi » Sat Mar 1, 2025 9:47 pm

Spree2Houston wrote:If Mitch could ever stay healthy he’s the modern day Dennis Rodman

That’s not true.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#226 » by spree2kawhi » Sat Mar 1, 2025 9:57 pm

KnicksGod wrote:Our Bridges and Towns are under attack by Terrible People, like Ukraine.

Some at least talk and argue like them.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#227 » by Guano » Sat Mar 1, 2025 9:59 pm

KnicksGod wrote:Our Bridges and Towns are under attack by Terrible People, like Ukraine.


you can add OG to that list, too

we had people calling him jared jeffries in the game thread :noway:
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#228 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sat Mar 1, 2025 10:13 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Besides Brunson and OG being clutch at the end, the real difference maker in this game was Deuce.

Who should be starting.


Deuce is awesome

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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#229 » by NYKinMIA » Sat Mar 1, 2025 10:14 pm

Ewings2ndcousin wrote:Every team has ugly wins so I'm good... but I'm smiling like OG

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I love this mfers sense of humor :lol:

nice win. welcome back Mitch!
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#230 » by Chanel Bomber » Sat Mar 1, 2025 10:20 pm

The Knicks had their best record after 55 games in almost 3 decades playing KAT at the 5.

Sure, the Knicks are a tier below the top 3 teams in the league currently. But to act like it has been a disaster is completely detached from reality.

There's always a tradeoff between offense and defense depending on where you play KAT. What matters is the point differential between the two. I guess we'll see how two-big lineups will perform on the whole, but the offense will obviously take a hit if you play KAT at the 4 vs the 5, even as the defense improves. The question is whether the tradeoff is beneficial - I have my doubts.

Having a rim protector is not some panacea that only solves our problems but doesn't hurt the team in other areas.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#231 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Mar 1, 2025 10:47 pm

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Spree2Houston wrote:Our Starting Center is back. Let’s go to war

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Tony, what are we gonna do?

Do? I’ll tell you what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna go TO WAR!!!
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#232 » by mpharris36 » Sat Mar 1, 2025 10:49 pm

Guano wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:Our Bridges and Towns are under attack by Terrible People, like Ukraine.


you can add OG to that list, too

we had people calling him jared jeffries in the game thread :noway:


This is blasphemous!!!
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#233 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Mar 1, 2025 10:58 pm

Mitchy ain’t no snitchy :lol:

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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#234 » by Guano » Sat Mar 1, 2025 11:14 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Guano wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:Our Bridges and Towns are under attack by Terrible People, like Ukraine.


you can add OG to that list, too

we had people calling him jared jeffries in the game thread :noway:


This is blasphemous!!!


that's what i'm saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

repent for your sins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

show some penitence and we might bestow some mercy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#235 » by Guano » Sat Mar 1, 2025 11:15 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:The Knicks had their best record after 55 games in almost 3 decades playing KAT at the 5.

Sure, the Knicks are a tier below the top 3 teams in the league currently. But to act like it has been a disaster is completely detached from reality.

There's always a tradeoff between offense and defense depending on where you play KAT. What matters is the point differential between the two. I guess we'll see how two-big lineups will perform on the whole, but the offense will obviously take a hit if you play KAT at the 4 vs the 5, even as the defense improves. The question is whether the tradeoff is beneficial - I have my doubts.

Having a rim protector is not some panacea that only solves our problems but doesn't hurt the team in other areas.



meLo are we allowing him to hedge here or is he in too deep with the 5out freaks?
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#236 » by Handledatruth » Sun Mar 2, 2025 12:04 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:The Knicks had their best record after 55 games in almost 3 decades playing KAT at the 5.

Sure, the Knicks are a tier below the top 3 teams in the league currently. But to act like it has been a disaster is completely detached from reality.

There's always a tradeoff between offense and defense depending on where you play KAT. What matters is the point differential between the two. I guess we'll see how two-big lineups will perform on the whole, but the offense will obviously take a hit if you play KAT at the 4 vs the 5, even as the defense improves. The question is whether the tradeoff is beneficial - I have my doubts.

Having a rim protector is not some panacea that only solves our problems but doesn't hurt the team in other areas.


It is not really about rim protection though. I was watching the minutes that Mitch played when KAT was in foul trouble and he was consistently rotating out of drop coverage to the correct person when Memphis would swing the ball out of the pick and roll. In other games without Mitch or with KAT on the floor as center there would be wide open threes either on the corner or the elbow which was usually a blown rotation by KAT or someone making up for his slow feet. Mitch was obviously winded and a little out of game shape, but if he fixes our rotations by doing better drop coverage as a C than KAT, then we might have a chance against 3 point chuckers like Boston. The rim protection is a secondary bonus.

Just another note, Precious Achiuwa does great with the rotations on defense as well, but he's a below average rebounder and fails to end possessions. Mitch brings elite rebounding + rotation so that we don't have to rely on KAT to do it. After 50+ games I now understand why Minnesota brought in Gobert and I am happy to see Mitch moving around comfortably to play that same role.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#237 » by Knick4Real » Sun Mar 2, 2025 12:17 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Spree2Houston wrote:Surprised NoDope hasn’t said anything. He’s Mitch’s biggest fan

My guy nodope is going through a rough patch right now. His takes on KAT being able to anchor a defense at the 5 aged like milk, the whole board is screaming we need mitch, and most importantly sham gets to run his victory laps. Praying for my dawg nodope to get through this difficult time. :D




The Knicks won, why would I be down? It's not like I spent 4 months crashing out, getting banned, having a thread made for me, or said I was going to go on sabbatical and lurk because it's "unfair" on here 8-)


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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#238 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Mar 2, 2025 12:29 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Spree2Houston wrote:Surprised NoDope hasn’t said anything. He’s Mitch’s biggest fan

My guy nodope is going through a rough patch right now. His takes on KAT being able to anchor a defense at the 5 aged like milk, the whole board is screaming we need mitch, and most importantly sham gets to run his victory laps. Praying for my dawg nodope to get through this difficult time. :D




The Knicks won, why would I be down? It's not like I spent 4 months crashing out, getting banned, having a thread made for me, or said I was going to go on sabbatical and lurk because it's "unfair" on here 8-)

You spent the last 5 years crashing out since we got Thibs to deflect your bad takes. A ban is nothing. I got more bans during the Melo days :lol: Saying a thread was made for me is a compliment, meaning I have power 8-) In the end I won. You lost every argument about KAT at the 5, you lost all your arguments about our ex young knicks, you lost the argument about donovan mitchell not being able to thrive next to a small guard, the list just keeps adding on bredren. You going out like Mavado.
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#239 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Mar 2, 2025 12:30 am

Gravy wrote:
Spree2Houston wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:My guy nodope is going through a rough patch right now. His takes on KAT being able to anchor a defense at the 5 aged like milk, the whole board is screaming we need mitch, and most importantly sham gets to run his victory laps. Praying for my dawg nodope to get through this difficult time. :D


lol yeah the Thibs deflection/Mitch slander on this board couldn’t cover how bad KAT was defensively at the 5. I tried giving it a shot but man I never want to go through that again

They was blaming Thibs for KAT being the worst defender in the league! Writing wild essays about how to fix him.

"Thibs needs to switch KAT in his blitz package and flagellate the zone..."

Image

It was all deflections cause they didn't want to admit they were wrong about KAT's defense at the 5. They were in too deep with their arguments, they didn't want to admit defeat. :lol:
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Re: PG: KNICKS 'Maul' The Grizzlies: Brunson/OG/Mitch Edition 

Post#240 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Mar 2, 2025 12:50 am

Guano wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:The Knicks had their best record after 55 games in almost 3 decades playing KAT at the 5.

Sure, the Knicks are a tier below the top 3 teams in the league currently. But to act like it has been a disaster is completely detached from reality.

There's always a tradeoff between offense and defense depending on where you play KAT. What matters is the point differential between the two. I guess we'll see how two-big lineups will perform on the whole, but the offense will obviously take a hit if you play KAT at the 4 vs the 5, even as the defense improves. The question is whether the tradeoff is beneficial - I have my doubts.

Having a rim protector is not some panacea that only solves our problems but doesn't hurt the team in other areas.



meLo are we allowing him to hedge here or is he in too deep with the 5out freaks?

He'll come around eventually. 95% of the board has accepted that we need Mitch to start, and a lot of them don't even like mitch like that. KAT's defense has been that bad :lol:
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