2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[Special_Puppy]

Because OKC along with the injuries they've had are not THAT much better than Denver to have that level of a difference in record. We don't agree on that ,

Don’t the advance stats basically say that though? Do you think they’re underrating SGA somewhat and or overrating Jokic?

The difference in the rate stats is infinitesimal. Much smaller than the difference between 75 games and 80 games at the end of the season in terms of value. For all intents and purposes, they're tied in rate stats.

Its going to end up being a ~2 game gap in playing time because Jokic has played ~2 more minutes per game than SGA.

[TravisScott55]

Gonna be a photo finish for this award

[MoneyTalks41890]

Don’t the advance stats basically say that though? Do you think they’re underrating SGA somewhat and or overrating Jokic?

The difference in the rate stats is infinitesimal. Much smaller than the difference between 75 games and 80 games at the end of the season in terms of value. For all intents and purposes, they're tied in rate stats.

Its going to end up being a ~2 game gap in playing time because Jokic has played ~2 more minutes per game than SGA.

Na that’s not how it works. SGA plays fewer minutes because he’s putting other teams away by the third quarter.

But he’s been available for his team in five more games.

[Himothy Duncan]

Y’all don’t want to give a 40 year old the MVP do you?

[Special_Puppy]

[list=][/list]

The difference in the rate stats is infinitesimal. Much smaller than the difference between 75 games and 80 games at the end of the season in terms of value. For all intents and purposes, they're tied in rate stats.

Its going to end up being a ~2 game gap in playing time because Jokic has played ~2 more minutes per game than SGA.

Na that’s not how it works. SGA plays fewer minutes because he’s putting other teams away by the third quarter.

But he’s been available for his team in five more games.

He plays slightly less because the Thunder have significantly better depth than the Nuggets. FWIW SGA’s lead in minutes is built on “low leverage” minutes. I feel like people inherently don’t value “garbage time” minutes that much, but not counting “low leverage” minutes does somewhat disadvantage players with amazing supporting casts who can put away games early if they play well themselves

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=1628983&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612743&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=203999&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh

[Special_Puppy]

Y’all don’t want to give a 40 year old the MVP do you?

LeBron has no argument over Jokic and SGA

[Himothy Duncan]

Y’all don’t want to give a 40 year old the MVP do you?

LeBron has no argument over Jokic and SGA

Why? They have the second best record in the West and he’s been playing great and has turned it up in the new year. Doesn’t matter who has been on the court with him.

[Special_Puppy]

Y’all don’t want to give a 40 year old the MVP do you?

LeBron has no argument over Jokic and SGA

Why? They have the second best record in the West and he’s been playing great and has turned it up in the new year. Doesn’t matter who has been on the court with him.

His traditional and advanced stats aren’t even close to Jokic or SGA

[EmpireFalls]

Really bad week for the Jokic MVP case

I’m pretty firmly SGA right now until the Nuggets prove they can actually compete with good teams.

[Special_Puppy]

Really bad week for the Jokic MVP case

I’m pretty firmly SGA right now until the Nuggets prove they can actually compete with good teams.

What puts you firmly in the SGA MVP camp? Aren’t Jokic and SGA’s traditional and advanced stats very close?

[EmpireFalls]

Really bad week for the Jokic MVP case

I’m pretty firmly SGA right now until the Nuggets prove they can actually compete with good teams.

What puts you firmly in the SGA MVP camp? Aren’t Jokic and SGA’s traditional and advanced stats very close?

The fact that every time I watch the Nuggets play someone good they seem to lose, whereas the Thunder have the best net rating in NBA history. I was looking at their respective performances against top 4 seeds in each conference and it was a very stark difference.

It’s unfair to Jokic, of course, but ultimately team success has always been the tiebreaker in these debates. I think it’s less about Jokic and more about the consistent greatness of SGA on an all time team.

Basically to overcome SGA’s team record edge, Jokic would need to significantly outdo SGA statistically or be much closer to OKC in the standings.

[Special_Puppy]

Really bad week for the Jokic MVP case

I’m pretty firmly SGA right now until the Nuggets prove they can actually compete with good teams.

What puts you firmly in the SGA MVP camp? Aren’t Jokic and SGA’s traditional and advanced stats very close?

The fact that every time I watch the Nuggets play someone good they seem to lose, whereas the Thunder have the best net rating in NBA history. I was looking at their respective performances against top 4 seeds in each conference and it was a very stark difference.

It’s unfair to Jokic, of course, but ultimately team success has always been the tiebreaker in these debates. I think it’s less about Jokic and more about the consistent greatness of SGA on an all time team.

Basically to overcome SGA’s team record edge, Jokic would need to significantly outdo SGA statistically or be much closer to OKC in the standings.

I might have asked you this before but what % of the Thunder being better than the Nuggets do you think is about SGA being more valuable than Jokic this season vs SGA's supporting cast being better than Jokic's?

[EmpireFalls]

What puts you firmly in the SGA MVP camp? Aren’t Jokic and SGA’s traditional and advanced stats very close?

The fact that every time I watch the Nuggets play someone good they seem to lose, whereas the Thunder have the best net rating in NBA history. I was looking at their respective performances against top 4 seeds in each conference and it was a very stark difference.

It’s unfair to Jokic, of course, but ultimately team success has always been the tiebreaker in these debates. I think it’s less about Jokic and more about the consistent greatness of SGA on an all time team.

Basically to overcome SGA’s team record edge, Jokic would need to significantly outdo SGA statistically or be much closer to OKC in the standings.

I might have asked you this before but what % of the Thunder being better than the Nuggets do you think is about SGA being more valuable than Jokic this season vs SGA's supporting cast being better than Jokic's?

Honestly? about 85% of it. Thunder are clearly better.

I won’t go 100%, though, because Chet has missed almost all of the season. I also think that SGA being a very good defender and being so durable helps OKC maintain their main strength, that elite switching defense and transition game. There’s arguments to be made that SGA might allow the Thunder to be better than Jokic would with that exact same supporting cast - although that’s mostly due to fit.

Obviously the two are playing at awesome levels and Jokic is having an all-time season. But when the team record is this outlier good, it takes a lot for someone else to win. that’s just the criterion for most valuable player historically. Jokic got an MVP last year because Tatum wasn’t having all that good of an individual season - but SGA now is.

[JustBuzzin]

SGA already has the award at his house.

In the words of Kenny Smith...

It's ova ladies and gentlemen it's ova!

[Prophet_tt]

Lebron James is the MVP this year. Sure Jokic has stats, Shai has wins BUT Lebron is FORTY. 40... lool. What he is currently doing is more impressive than the other 2. Just like the stats Jokic is posting, NOBODY in NBA history has done what Lebron is doing this year. He's got stats and W's. If Jokic can win as the 6th seed Lebron should get this one.

Jokic has never played with an All Star. Meanwhile, LeBron is playing next to an All NBA first teamer, again.

Lebron is 40...

[Prophet_tt]

Lebron James is the MVP this year. Sure Jokic has stats, Shai has wins BUT Lebron is FORTY. 40... lool. What he is currently doing is more impressive than the other 2. Just like the stats Jokic is posting, NOBODY in NBA history has done what Lebron is doing this year. He's got stats and W's. If Jokic can win as the 6th seed Lebron should get this one.

It's definitely more impressive, but that doesn't make him better, or more deserving for the MVP. But yeah, it's pretty amazing what he does, for sure.

He's the 2nd seed in the " brutal" west. Since Turning 40 his numbers are better than his past MVP year in 2013. He's played in a majority of the games this year including back to backs. Has a winning record without AD and Luka. It's just insane what level he's at right now. He deserves the MVP this year for sure. Sorry SGA team is too stacked just like Boston with Tatum and Jokic is just behind him in the win column. GOAT James deserves this one for the one they robbed him of to give to D Rose back in the day.

[The-Power]

Lebron James is the MVP this year. Sure Jokic has stats, Shai has wins BUT Lebron is FORTY. 40... lool. What he is currently doing is more impressive than the other 2. Just like the stats Jokic is posting, NOBODY in NBA history has done what Lebron is doing this year. He's got stats and W's. If Jokic can win as the 6th seed Lebron should get this one.

And if it was called the ‘Most Impressive Player’ or ‘Most Unprecedented Season’ award, LeBron would be the favorite. But since this is about the MVP, he's not a serious contender because he's just not as good as some others or as valuable to his team.

[Prophet_tt]

Yeah Murray averaged 26 5 7 during the playoffs title run. That’s all star numbers. Give Jokic a healthy Murray then you will see.

He's healthy enough to play 43 minutes and scored 35 points against the Wolves in Game 7 last playoffs. They got outplayed in the 2nd half and allowed the biggest comeback in Game 7 history being up by 20 in the 3rd quarter while Jokic was -23 in the 2nd half. It is what it is, Joker is 0-5 in a playoffs series against any team who won atleast 50 games for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of his biggest fan and I hope we're going to see him and his squad to overcome that obstacle this time around in 2025 playoffs.

Murray scored 18 PPG on 48% TS in the TWolves series

I'd rather you speak to his point about Jokic choking in Game 7 at home instead. Can you elaborate on that?

[yoyoboy]

LeBron has a -7.4 on-off on the 12th-ranked team by SRS. Can we be serious?

[AleksandarN]

He's healthy enough to play 43 minutes and scored 35 points against the Wolves in Game 7 last playoffs. They got outplayed in the 2nd half and allowed the biggest comeback in Game 7 history being up by 20 in the 3rd quarter while Jokic was -23 in the 2nd half. It is what it is, Joker is 0-5 in a playoffs series against any team who won atleast 50 games for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of his biggest fan and I hope we're going to see him and his squad to overcome that obstacle this time around in 2025 playoffs.

Murray scored 18 PPG on 48% TS in the TWolves series

I'd rather you speak to his point about Jokic choking in Game 7 at home instead. Can you elaborate on that?

The guy scored 21 pts in the second half of that game. No one else made shots other than Murray in that second half. Jokic was bad from three yes. Guess what he did this summer worked on his shot now he’s top 5 in 3 pt percentage this year.