Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

[payitforward]

1. Deni is a good player.
2. An extra R1 pick in '29 will be a good thing to have (or use to move up between now & then).
3. No, 2 R2 picks are not trivial. You like Middleton? He was a #39 pick. You like Holmes? A R2 pick. It is often the case that 1/3 or more of R2 picks are better than more than half of the guys taken in R1 (usually including better than a few top-10 picks). You don't believe me? Look at 2012 for example.

[TGW]

lol at “you like Middleton?” Like he’s the typical second round pick.

Dhalsim levels of reaching in this thread.

[DCZards]

My first impulse was to challenge PIF and suggest that there are very few second rd surprises nowadays as compared to when Middleton was drafted 12 yrs ago.

But then I came up with this list of second rd picks since 2020 who are playing quality minutes in the NBA…many of them for good teams.

No all-stars like Middleton but a lot of solid contributors.

Aaron Wiggins
Ayo Dosumnu
Herbert Jones
Dalano Benton
Jericho Sims
Nick Richards
Sam Merrill
Andrew Nembhard
Max Christie
Ryan Rollins
Andre Jackson Jr.
Jalen Wilson
Toumani Camara
Trace Jackson-Davis
Ajay Mitchell
Jaylen Wells
Quinten Post

[dckingsfan]

BTW: Deni Avdija is the 5th player in NBA's history to record 30+ points, 12+ rebounds, 10+ assists, with 13 field goal attempts or less.

Wilt Chamberlain, Nikola Jokic, Magic Johnson, and Domantas Sabonis are the others.

[closg00]

It's also interesting to follow the Deni discussion over on the Blazers board, recall that their board was heated/divided and some thought they had given up too-much for him and they were hating on him initially, now they are in agreement that he is their best player.

[tontoz]

Props to Deni glad to see him doing well.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

It's also interesting to follow the Deni discussion over on the Blazers board, recall that their board was heated/divided and some thought they had given up too-much for him and they were hating on him initially, now they are in agreement that he is their best player.

That debate amongst themselves was largely heavily in favor of the trade by the end of December, with a couple of folks still holding out that they really like him as a player, but questioning the timing of bringing him in.

You go to their boards now (Blazers Edge on SB nation has a ton of activity compared to POR's RealGM traffic), and they are saying things like alpha in terms of him holding other teammates accountable, less than a season in.

I think by next season he's making an all-star case if Portland continues their upward trajectory.

He was everywhere in that game yesterday, just everywhere. Portland was up at 18 at one point but blew the lead once he went to the bench. Masterclass here against a really good team even with Mitchell out.

Watch on YouTube

You can like Bub but also come to the notion that this trade was a strategic failure all around. The team threw away a critical piece, on a great contract, it's that simple.

[Dark Faze]

Still not seeing the consistency I was hoping for from him this year. Just had a month of 14, 5.4,3.4 for all of February. Before that he was at 18, 8 , and 4 for January, and that was a month where he was scorching hot from three for his standards.

Most guys will have shown what their ceiling likely is by the end of year 5. So there's still some time for him to finish strong on the year. But I think you're seeing a guy who's best season is probably going to be under 20ppg. That doesn't take anything away from him. But that's a player you're desperate for on a good contract while you're contending. It's not a player you really cry about this early in a rebuild.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

BTW: Deni Avdija is the 5th player in NBA's history to record 30+ points, 12+ rebounds, 10+ assists, with 13 field goal attempts or less.

Wilt Chamberlain, Nikola Jokic, Magic Johnson, and Domantas Sabonis are the others.

The Wizards blew it again.

[dckingsfan]

BTW: Deni Avdija is the 5th player in NBA's history to record 30+ points, 12+ rebounds, 10+ assists, with 13 field goal attempts or less.

Wilt Chamberlain, Nikola Jokic, Magic Johnson, and Domantas Sabonis are the others.

The Wizards blew it again.

Yeah true. But I still have hope. I think that this FO is committed to the rebuild.

Now, if they trade Bub (example) for two FRPs or an FRP + 2 SRPs. Cool.

If they overvalue Sarr, Bub & George and don't use them for more trade collateral - not so much.

And they need to stop those signings like Kuz and Kispert. And they need luck. But there is hope if they actually stick to the rebuild. I am more optimistic than negative until they show me they won't. I still give them a grade of good just not very good. And since they are competing with other franchises - that makes it tough.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Still not seeing the consistency I was hoping for from him this year. Just had a month of 14, 5.4,3.4 for all of February. Before that he was at 18, 8 , and 4 for January, and that was a month where he was scorching hot from three for his standards.

Most guys will have shown what their ceiling likely is by the end of year 5. So there's still some time for him to finish strong on the year. But I think you're seeing a guy who's best season is probably going to be under 20ppg. That doesn't take anything away from him. But that's a player you're desperate for on a good contract while you're contending. It's not a player you really cry about this early in a rebuild.

Bub is not special.

[dckingsfan]

Still not seeing the consistency I was hoping for from him this year. Just had a month of 14, 5.4,3.4 for all of February. Before that he was at 18, 8 , and 4 for January, and that was a month where he was scorching hot from three for his standards.

Most guys will have shown what their ceiling likely is by the end of year 5. So there's still some time for him to finish strong on the year. But I think you're seeing a guy who's best season is probably going to be under 20ppg. That doesn't take anything away from him. But that's a player you're desperate for on a good contract while you're contending. It's not a player you really cry about this early in a rebuild.

Interesting.

So, it is scoring that is the key with Deni? To me it is the notion that he is a two-way player. Also note, he has been playing out of position earlier in the season (as a SG) and has adapted nicely after a horrid start offensively.

But let's look at your notion first. Deni has been playing 28.6 minutes per game. Even with the horrid start his per 36 minutes is 18.8 ppg.

In February he played 26.3 per game (so +19 ppg). January same + 19 ppg. So, 19 or 20 - smh. Not bad for a player that looks to pass first and is the third option on a team. And as a note, his per 36 scoring has been 9.4, 12.4, 12.4, 17.6 and this year 18.8. That doesn't look like someone on the way to 20+?

His defense has been even better this season than the past. His defensive rating (only one measure) is really good considering he has been playing SG. 114 vs. Bub's 121 as a perspective (only) or Bilal's 119.

Now the bitching about Deni's game. TOs. It has been really high this season... like 18+%. The last 15 games or so... down to 13% and his assist percentage is up to 20%. If he does this - he is near all-star level if not an all-star.

[nate33]

Still not seeing the consistency I was hoping for from him this year. Just had a month of 14, 5.4,3.4 for all of February. Before that he was at 18, 8 , and 4 for January, and that was a month where he was scorching hot from three for his standards.

Most guys will have shown what their ceiling likely is by the end of year 5. So there's still some time for him to finish strong on the year. But I think you're seeing a guy who's best season is probably going to be under 20ppg. That doesn't take anything away from him. But that's a player you're desperate for on a good contract while you're contending. It's not a player you really cry about this early in a rebuild.

Deni had that five minute game against the wizards where he produced basically no stats. In a short February month, that pretty much explains his generally lower monthly averages. Take away that game, and I bet you would find no issues with his consistency.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Still not seeing the consistency I was hoping for from him this year. Just had a month of 14, 5.4,3.4 for all of February. Before that he was at 18, 8 , and 4 for January, and that was a month where he was scorching hot from three for his standards.

Most guys will have shown what their ceiling likely is by the end of year 5. So there's still some time for him to finish strong on the year. But I think you're seeing a guy who's best season is probably going to be under 20ppg. That doesn't take anything away from him. But that's a player you're desperate for on a good contract while you're contending. It's not a player you really cry about this early in a rebuild.

Deni had that five minute game against the wizards where he produced basically no stats. In a short February month, that pretty much explains his generally lower monthly averages. Take away that game, and I bet you would find no issues with his consistency.

There's even more to it.

It's no surprise you saw some drop in production in February given that Billups inexplicably cut his minutes by more than 7 mpg (that's a huge drop for starter) in February, especially early in the month, to force feed minutes to Grant who has been pretty bad all season. Mix in he only played 6 minutes versus us before going out hurt, not surprising.

He played only 4 games of 30+ minutes for the month of February despite averaging 33 mpg in January. In those 4 game he actually got above 30 mpg he put up the following stat lines:

-44 mins: 24 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assist, 4 TOs, and a steal on 66/50/100 splits
-34 mins: 16 points, 8 assists 6 rebounds, 2 TOs, and a steal on 42/50/67 splits
-34 mins: 28 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 TOS, and 2 steals on 64/66/80 splits
-36 mins: 18 points, 14 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 TO on 33/20/64 splits

So 21.5 points, 8.5 rebounds, 6 assists, and a steal with less than 2 TOs per in 37 mpg in games in those 30+ mpg games.

He started off the month playing 23 minutes minutes or less in 4 of 5 games to start the month, 10 minutes less than what he was doing the month previous.

His per 36 numbers I'd imagine were the same as the previous month, not his fault Billups enamored with Grant who average 32.5 minutes per.

[playoffs]

He was dealing with a wrist injury prior to the AS break that severely hampered his shooting. His shots were all short for about a week and he even had trouble finishing at the rim. I thought it was a mistake for Billups to play him at all in those 4 games prior to the break. Should've rested him and let the wrist heal. He's looking much better now, although you can tell his 3-ball, which was much better prior to the injury, is not looking as good. My sense is that toward the end of the season, as his wrist gets better, his 3pt percentages will start creeping up again.

[closg00]

Still not seeing the consistency I was hoping for from him this year. Just had a month of 14, 5.4,3.4 for all of February. Before that he was at 18, 8 , and 4 for January, and that was a month where he was scorching hot from three for his standards.

Most guys will have shown what their ceiling likely is by the end of year 5. So there's still some time for him to finish strong on the year. But I think you're seeing a guy who's best season is probably going to be under 20ppg. That doesn't take anything away from him. But that's a player you're desperate for on a good contract while you're contending. It's not a player you really cry about this early in a rebuild.

Bub is not special.

Bub leads the current rookie class in minutes played. My big problem with the trade is that we used a mid-lottery pick on a guard, and decent to good guards are available in every draft. I posit that another decent guard this year, or next, getting the most minutes played, would have produced similar results. Also, Bub is not a PG it turns-out, he's good kid with plenty of upside to go, but this is a pretty big swing on guard talent with a limited bag, and the next FRP is down the road.

[DCZards]

Yeah true. But I still have hope. I think that this FO is committed to the rebuild.

Now, if they trade Bub (example) for two FRPs or an FRP + 2 SRPs. Cool.

If they overvalue Sarr, Bub & George and don't use them for more trade collateral - not so much.

Trading young players like Bub, Sarr, and George—all of whom have shown potential—instead of taking the time to develop them would be a mistake, imo.

Not only would the Zards be kicking the rebuild can 2-3 yrs further down the road, they’d also be taking the risk that the FRPs they got for them could turn out to be lesser players.

Be patient…and develop, develop, develop.

[payitforward]

lol at “you like Middleton?” Like he’s the typical second round pick.

Dhalsim levels of reaching in this thread.

Are you aware that you almost never open your mouth except to say something nasty?

[dckingsfan]

Yeah true. But I still have hope. I think that this FO is committed to the rebuild.

Now, if they trade Bub (example) for two FRPs or an FRP + 2 SRPs. Cool.

If they overvalue Sarr, Bub & George and don't use them for more trade collateral - not so much.

Trading young players like Bub, Sarr, and George—all of whom have shown potential—instead of taking the time to develop them would be a mistake, imo.

Not only would the Zards be kicking the rebuild can 2-3 yrs further down the road, they’d also be taking the risk that the FRPs they got for them could turn out to be lesser players.

Be patient…and develop, develop, develop.

Wait, don't be patient with Deni but do with the others. Not buying this one bit.

Get at least a FRP + SRPs and you are ahead of the game. We are on the process luck track. We need as many shots as possible - so don't wait too long to move them (if you want to be consistent).

Develop, trade, rinse, repeat until we hit on a true 1 or 2. None of those players are going to pan out to more than 5-8s on a good team (IMO). And even that doesn't matter if you don't hit on two of your 1/2 type players.

So, agree to disagree on this one.

[Dark Faze]

Guys you're all making good points but do you think that most players aren't going to have some contextual arguments for why a month went bad, injuries, coach was dumb, etc? These "excuses" will exist for all players. Regardless, by and large, you end up looking up pretty much any player and 95% of the time you'll see that a players resume by year 5 painted a pretty strong picture of what was possible after that.