Cooper Flagg

[Duke4life831]

No question he comes out this year right?

Ya he's not returning to college.

This whole thing started from I believe an Athletic article where he said that he wanted to return to Duke next year.

So everyone ran with that quote. But they all left out the beginning part where he said, "if it wasn't for what was coming up... I want to come back next year."

He's 100% going to enter the draft.

[TravisScott55]

He's definitely better than I expected.

[Memories]

Cooper is destined to be on the Utah Jazz and you all know it.

[The Master]

Yeah, with these shooting splits throughout the season (38% from 3 on high volume, 83% from FT) and him being so young (basically the age of Dwight or LeBron in their draft seasons after HS) - he truly may be a generational talent. That doesn't mean he'll end up as a top10 player ever, but I lean towards opinion that he may be a better prospect than Zion or AD, and they were receiving 'generational' labels from many in college as well. Not necessarily because he's a better college player, but his ceiling is insane when you consider he's very good at ... everything???, while being so young at the same time.

When was the last time we had a wing prospect who was a great scorer, playmaker and defender as an 18yo? Probably LeBron. Again, not saying he's a LeBron-level talent, but you can easily imagine him getting to the level of this super efficient 27-8-8 two-way player very quickly and that's at least the whole MVP candidate-level prime.

Earlier I was in the 'it's fine he's not generational, he's still an amazing 1st pick candidate' group, but you can't ignore him improving to the level of 21-7-4 on 67TS%, shooting 46% from 3s and 87% from FT line, with very low turnovers numbers (2.1), in the last 20 games, on a team that made 19-1 in this period, oh, with a great defense as well.

[FrodoBaggins]

Cooper's updated BPM numbers with one game left:

Basketball Reference: 17.03
Bart Torvik: 15.6

Only Zion, AD, and Sindarius Thornwell are above Flagg. Quite remarkable for an underaged freshman playing in the portal, NIL, COVID super-senior era of college basketball.

Draft ages:

Zion: 18.95 yrs
Davis: 19.27 yrs
Flagg: 18.50 yrs

[50yrceltsfan]

I watch Tatum every game and have watched Flagg since he played in Maine, and they're pretty similar. Flagg is modeling his game after Tatum's. Take the ball at half court, penetrate to the middle, occasionally finish but more often find shooters all over the court. Both are smooth ball handlers who see the court and deliver quality passes.

JT has an excellent high release on his shot, Cooper's is a lower release point which concerns me a little, but his accuracy is surprising and his FT shooting is insane. Tatum has developed a number of moves at the 3 pt line to get his shot off, and we'll see if Flagg is able to add that. I don't foresee him becoming as great a 3 pt shooter as Tatum, but he will hit open 3's all day. Flagg has a better left hand and can slash/finish as well as anyone with either hand. Both are excellent defenders and rebounders, but Flagg is a more dynamic shot blocker.

They're both 6'8 with similar builds and athleticism, but Flagg plays stronger inside, which is amazing having just turned 18. They're both alphas but Flagg really plays with a swag, more verbal. It really looks to me that Flagg's trajectory will surpass Tatum's and he'll become a top 3 player.

[Ice Man]

It's not often that I agree with a Celtics fan, but I fully agree with 50yearcelftsfan. Not only is Tatum an excellent comparison, but those are the correct pros & cons.

[Bernman]

I think he's ascended to best prospect, outside LeBron & Wemby, this century. And best collegiate prospect since, IDK, Magic? Gotta be at least since Shaq.

IMO he's surpassed Zion, who was outstanding, but fat, couldn't shoot, & not nearly the passer.

[zero rings]

Is there anyone left on the “trade him for OKC’s war chest” train?

[Castle Black]

I think he's ascended to best prospect, outside LeBron & Wemby, this century. And best collegiate prospect since, IDK, Magic? Gotta be at least since Shaq.

IMO he's surpassed Zion, who was outstanding, but fat, couldn't shoot, & not nearly the passer.

Tim Duncan says hello.

[Bernman]

I think he's ascended to best prospect, outside LeBron & Wemby, this century. And best collegiate prospect since, IDK, Magic? Gotta be at least since Shaq.

IMO he's surpassed Zion, who was outstanding, but fat, couldn't shoot, & not nearly the passer.

Tim Duncan says hello.

Senior who was an average athlete says good-bye.

[Castle Black]

I think he's ascended to best prospect, outside LeBron & Wemby, this century. And best collegiate prospect since, IDK, Magic? Gotta be at least since Shaq.

IMO he's surpassed Zion, who was outstanding, but fat, couldn't shoot, & not nearly the passer.

Tim Duncan says hello.

Senior who was an average athlete says good-bye.

The disrespect is real. He was the consensus #1 Overall Pick, Naismith NCAA Player of the Year, 3x ACC Player of the Year, 3x National Defensive Player of the Year, Rupp Award, 2x Consensus First Team All-American, NCAA Rebounding Leader, etc.

We hadn’t seen such blatant tanking for a prospect since Shaq when Timmy came out in 1998. He was as close to guaranteed thing as there was, and he was 20-21 years old his Senior year since he enrolled early.

And Duncan before the meniscus tear in 2000 was no “average athlete.” He was extremely fluid and mobile and was catching lobs on the reg. And Flagg, while plenty athletic, is no Lebron or Zion himself.

[og15]

A lot depends on the franchise.

The Mavs, if I'm not mistaken, had to trade away basically every starter in Luka's rookie season because they couldn't handle a European white rookie being alpha dog.

The franchise is going to have to give Coop the keys and dismiss anyone not getting in line.

Franchises can ruin careers.

No great player has their career ruined by this, it's not a thing. Now you might delay the inevitable a little bit, but there's no means of ruining these types of players careers because they are sharing playmaking/ball handling. I'm actually curious as to what makes people think this as there are no actual examples of this and tons of examples of the opposite.

Nash/KJ/Kidd, Nash wasn't ruined. Harden was behind Westbrook and Durant, not ruined. Bledsoe (just good not great) was behind CP and Blake, no ruining. SGA played behind Lou Williams, then had CP and Schroder as a sophomore. Haliburton with Fox, etc, etc, etc.

The skills don't somehow erode, they also still get reps for the primary role, they just aren't always fully maximized early.

Whoever drafts him, they best not have a high Usage player. If they do, they better trade away that high usage guy.

If you draft Flagg, you toss him in the point forward role from day 1. Having him play off of a high usage guard will just be wasting valuable time he can have in that role, which will be his role in the league.

Him next to Ball would be a horrible start to his career.

I think that highly depends on the high usage player you’re talking about.

My Pistons have such a player, but one that’s willing to do whatever it takes to win. If you believe Cade, and I have no reason not to, if the opposing team wants to keep the ball out of his hands and will overcommit to do so, he’s fine with someone else getting the shine.

Of course, we aren’t going to have a shot at Flagg, so it doesn’t really matter. And I agree LaMelo, in his current form, is the wrong kind of teammate. But I do think Cooper isn’t going to be a 20 ppg guy in the beginning, if it all, so having guys that want shots isn’t really a problem. It seems like most successful teams have multiple playmakers anyway, so as long as you aren’t talking about a Beal in Washington scenario, or LaMelo, I think there are plenty of great fits.

I think any high usage player in general will be a bad pairing if you’re trying to reach Flagg’s ceiling. Doesn’t matter if it will be a struggle his first season or two.

The Spurs aren’t going to make the playoffs in the first two years of Wemby, just like the Cavs didn’t make the playoffs the first two years with LeBron. So I don’t think immediate individual or team success really matters here.

But if I’m drafting Flagg, my hope is he is going to be THE franchise cornerstone. At least for 2 years, I’m handing him the ball and a high usage role to see how much he improves in those 2-3 years. If by then he’s not showing potential as your #1 option, okay I might start to rethink it.

Right now I don’t want to pair him with another high usage player. I’m giving him the LeBron/Luka treatment from day 1.

Luka his first year: Harrison Barnes and Tim Hardaway were the 2nd and 3rd leading scorers.
Year 2: they did bring in KP, but KP has always been a very low Time Per Possession guy. So it’s not like he was taking the ball out of Luka’s hands.

Same thing with LeBron. Hell Jeff McInnis was Cleveland’s secondary ball handler and 3rd scoring option during LeBron’s 2nd year.

I think this is the same scenario you build around Flagg early on. Allow him to take his bumps and bruises early on. Then slowly start filling out off ball players that fit around him. Then once he has a really good grasp as the definitive #1 guy, you can bring in another high usage guy to be his #2.

Cleveland got McInnis in LeBron's rookie season at the deadline in order to relieve him of too much on ball duties as a rookie, but yea, there's no need to have another ball dominant guy if that's not the fit. You can also always try it out and see if it works, then if not, you can pivot.

It's a great idea to get him his reps early and get the growing pains out of the way. That said, it's not going to make or break his development or change the level of player he becomes. It can certainly waste your time as a team in terms of roster build, etc though.

[Ice Man]

Tim Duncan says hello.

I think we should limit these comparisons to one-and-done players, because comparing freshmen to seniors isn't very helpful. Although I will say, aside from rebounds & blocks Flagg's stats are either similar or better to senior Tim's (and FAR better than freshman Tim's).

[Ice Man]

On a related note to the question about whether pro franchises can ruin an elite player's development (I think not), we should salute Jon Scheyer for handing the keys of his offense to a 17 year old (when the season started) power forward. As in you can have the ball to initiate the offense, Cooper. Do what you will. That was a brave decision, no matter how hyped the freshman.

But Scheyer pretty clearly is a special coach.

[liquidswords]

It's not often that I agree with a Celtics fan, but I fully agree with 50yearcelftsfan. Not only is Tatum an excellent comparison, but those are the correct pros & cons.

He plays way meaner than Tatum.

[amcoolio]

Lamelo Ball is only high usage because nobody else on the team can dribble a basketball. He can and would concede to Flagg just like he did to Hayward early in his career. LaMelo can be a great off ball 2.

It doesn't matter anyway, the Hornets are the most cursed franchise in sports and they'll probably get jumped by the Pelicans again to add insult to injury

[JayMKE]

Saying so & so is the “best prospect since x” seems arbitrary and too biased to mean anything.

[Bernman]

The disrespect is real. He was the consensus #1 Overall Pick, Naismith NCAA Player of the Year, 3x ACC Player of the Year, 3x National Defensive Player of the Year, 2x Consensus First Team All-American, NCAA Rebounding Leader, etc.

We hadn’t seen such blatant tanking for a prospect since Shaq when Timmy came out in 1998. He was as close to guaranteed thing as there was, and he was 20-21 years old his Senior year since he enrolled early.

And Duncan before the meniscus tear in 2000 was no “average athlete.” He was extremely fluid and mobile and was catching lobs on the reg. And Flagg, while plenty athletic, is no Lebron or Zion himself.

LOL at disrespect. That's your feelings it invoked because your team drafted him.

I just gave reasons that apply to every prospect. If Flagg was a 4th yr senior, instead of a freshman who was a re-classified hs senior, it wouldn't be viewed as impressive. And being in the mid-range of athletes when you reached the pros is another factor.

Duncan's hype wasn't on the same level of Oden & Zion for a combo of these factors. And Flagg's ascended above them, between LeBron & Wemby, who were both 18-19. Listing a guy's age & observing athleticism disadvantages isn't disrespect. Nobody's disputing Duncan was ultimately a great NBA player, like Jokic, an even less athletic 2nd rounder who I was a fan of at the time.

[OriAr]

The disrespect is real. He was the consensus #1 Overall Pick, Naismith NCAA Player of the Year, 3x ACC Player of the Year, 3x National Defensive Player of the Year, 2x Consensus First Team All-American, NCAA Rebounding Leader, etc.

We hadn’t seen such blatant tanking for a prospect since Shaq when Timmy came out in 1998. He was as close to guaranteed thing as there was, and he was 20-21 years old his Senior year since he enrolled early.

And Duncan before the meniscus tear in 2000 was no “average athlete.” He was extremely fluid and mobile and was catching lobs on the reg. And Flagg, while plenty athletic, is no Lebron or Zion himself.

LOL at disrespect. That's your feelings it invoked because your team drafted him.

I just gave reasons that apply to every prospect. If Flagg was a 4th yr senior, instead of a freshman who was a re-classified hs senior, it wouldn't be viewed as impressive. And being in the mid-range of athletes when you reached the pros is another factor.

Duncan's hype wasn't on the same level of Oden & Zion for a combo of these factors. And Flagg's ascended above them, between LeBron & Wemby, who were both 18-19. Listing a guy's age & observing athleticism disadvantages isn't disrespect. Nobody's disputing Duncan was ultimately a great NBA player, like Jokic, an even less athletic 2nd rounder who I was a fan of at the time.

Duncan had nearly every team begging him to come out of college after his sophomore year but he decided to stay so he could graduate.
He was absolutely better than Zion as a prospect and closer to Wemby/LeBron than people think.
He was unquestionably the best NCAA prospect since Shaq.