2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[Special_Puppy]

“SGA only a +6 against a Rockets team without their 5 best players. Fraud MVP!” -Jaqua92

[Special_Puppy]

Imagine SGA not winning MVP…

What more can he possibly do? Genuinely. How could he possibly improve his case more than this?

Serious answer is separate himself from Jokic in terms of individual play, but that’s hard to do unless he starts playing like prime MJ or LeBron

He has 45 in 28 minutes and the only possible way to slow him down is double teaming 35 feet from the basket.

What did prime MJ do that SGA isn’t doing? I’m at a loss.

Fair

[Jaqua92]

“SGA only a +6 against a Rockets team without their 5 best players. Fraud MVP!” -Jaqua92

I mean I already said hes the mvp.

SGA is better than MJ and Jokic for sure though.

[JustBuzzin]

They should just go ahead and announce the MVP is SGA.

He's not letting up.

[EmpireFalls]

Guys if your only rebuttal to “how is SGA not having a prime MJ season” is “winning the championship” then you’re kind of proving my point…

[Special_Puppy]

Guys if your only rebuttal to “how is SGA not having a prime MJ season” is “winning the championship” then you’re kind of proving my point…

Out of curiosity: Would you personally put this RS over any of Jordan’s regular seasons from 1988 to 1991 or any LeBron regular season from 2009 to 2013?

[EmpireFalls]

Guys if your only rebuttal to “how is SGA not having a prime MJ season” is “winning the championship” then you’re kind of proving my point…

Out of curiosity: Would you personally put this RS over any of Jordan’s regular seasons from 1988 to 1991 or any LeBron regular season from 2009 to 2013?

I’d say it could be very slightly over 2011 Bron and probably not over any of the other seasons. Sacrifices some stat volume for a better net rating, that’s the nature of being on a better team.

Still, almost as close to equal to them as you’ll see.

[RRR3]

LeBron was sacrificing a lot of his game in 2011 to accommodate Wade

[SA37]

With about 20 games left, I still have Jokic ahead. 3rd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 4th in 3pt %, 1st in triple doubles and 2nd in double-doubles, although now with Sabonis out, he's going to pass Sabonis in double-doubles. I mean, this is easily one of the top-5 most dominant seasons by a single player.

I just don't see how you give this to anyone else.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Brunson
5. Giannis
6. LeBron
7. Cunningham

[hardenASG13]

With about 20 games left, I still have Jokic ahead. 3rd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 4th in 3pt %, 1st in triple doubles and 2nd in double-doubles, although now with Sabonis out, he's going to pass Sabonis in double-doubles.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Brunson
5. Giannis
6. LeBron
7. Cunningham

I'd counter that lots of his assists are just dribble handoffs and pitch backs. Thats why despite his low time of possession hes first in "passes" per game by a wide margin and 2nd in potential assists per game. The 3s he shoots are almost exclusively wide open looks from the top of the key (68.5% of his attempts are from there, and they aren't created off the dribble).

I see alot of people reference Westbrooks triple doubles years as stat padding, saying his MVP was fraudulent. How many times does Jokic not shoot much early but rack up assists (just like westbrook did). Not Jokic though. This is SGAs year.

[Special_Puppy]

With about 20 games left, I still have Jokic ahead. 3rd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 4th in 3pt %, 1st in triple doubles and 2nd in double-doubles, although now with Sabonis out, he's going to pass Sabonis in double-doubles. I mean, this is easily one of the top-5 most dominant seasons by a single player.

I just don't see how you give this to anyone else.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Brunson
5. Giannis
6. LeBron
7. Cunningham

SGA is also having an ATG year as well though and is very close to Jokic in a lot of the advanced stats.

[Special_Puppy]

With about 20 games left, I still have Jokic ahead. 3rd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 4th in 3pt %, 1st in triple doubles and 2nd in double-doubles, although now with Sabonis out, he's going to pass Sabonis in double-doubles.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Brunson
5. Giannis
6. LeBron
7. Cunningham

I'd counter that lots of his assists are just dribble handoffs and pitch backs. Thats why despite his low time of possession hes first in "passes" per game by a wide margin and 2nd in potential assists per game. The 3s he shoots are almost exclusively wide open looks from the top of the key (68.5% of his attempts are from there, and they aren't created off the dribble).

I see alot of people reference Westbrooks triple doubles years as stat padding, saying his MVP was fraudulent. How many times does Jokic not shoot much early but rack up assists (just like westbrook did). Not Jokic though. This is SGAs year.

Don’t think I’ve ever heard the critique that Jokic racks up a lot of “empty” assists. It’s tough to measure this, but the eFG% on Jokic’s assists are 65.5% this year (adjusting for turnovers). Jokic also rates well in “high value assists” (rim assists, 3 point assists, and FT assists). Also rates well in BBall Index’s “Passing Creation Quality” metric but I’m not sure how it’s calculated

[Infinite Llamas]

With about 20 games left, I still have Jokic ahead. 3rd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 4th in 3pt %, 1st in triple doubles and 2nd in double-doubles, although now with Sabonis out, he's going to pass Sabonis in double-doubles.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Brunson
5. Giannis
6. LeBron
7. Cunningham

I'd counter that lots of his assists are just dribble handoffs and pitch backs. Thats why despite his low time of possession hes first in "passes" per game by a wide margin and 2nd in potential assists per game. The 3s he shoots are almost exclusively wide open looks from the top of the key (68.5% of his attempts are from there, and they aren't created off the dribble).

I see alot of people reference Westbrooks triple doubles years as stat padding, saying his MVP was fraudulent. How many times does Jokic not shoot much early but rack up assists (just like westbrook did). Not Jokic though. This is SGAs year.

The true point guard of the team passing the ball early in the game…

Stop the presses!!!

[hardenASG13]

With about 20 games left, I still have Jokic ahead. 3rd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 4th in 3pt %, 1st in triple doubles and 2nd in double-doubles, although now with Sabonis out, he's going to pass Sabonis in double-doubles.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Brunson
5. Giannis
6. LeBron
7. Cunningham

I'd counter that lots of his assists are just dribble handoffs and pitch backs. Thats why despite his low time of possession hes first in "passes" per game by a wide margin and 2nd in potential assists per game. The 3s he shoots are almost exclusively wide open looks from the top of the key (68.5% of his attempts are from there, and they aren't created off the dribble).

I see alot of people reference Westbrooks triple doubles years as stat padding, saying his MVP was fraudulent. How many times does Jokic not shoot much early but rack up assists (just like westbrook did). Not Jokic though. This is SGAs year.

The true point guard of the team passing the ball early in the game…

Stop the presses!!!

The same thing Westbrook was routinely criticized for as stat chasing.

[Ambrose]

With about 20 games left, I still have Jokic ahead. 3rd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 4th in 3pt %, 1st in triple doubles and 2nd in double-doubles, although now with Sabonis out, he's going to pass Sabonis in double-doubles.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Brunson
5. Giannis
6. LeBron
7. Cunningham

I'd counter that lots of his assists are just dribble handoffs and pitch backs. Thats why despite his low time of possession hes first in "passes" per game by a wide margin and 2nd in potential assists per game. The 3s he shoots are almost exclusively wide open looks from the top of the key (68.5% of his attempts are from there, and they aren't created off the dribble).

I see alot of people reference Westbrooks triple doubles years as stat padding, saying his MVP was fraudulent. How many times does Jokic not shoot much early but rack up assists (just like westbrook did). Not Jokic though. This is SGAs year.

Except we know Denver's ORTG with him on vs. him off is the best in the league, so obviously what he's doing is impactful. No one can credibly argue Jokic statpads. Anyone who says that is outing themself as either a hater or not worth listening to. With that said, I do agree the award is probably SGA's this year.

[Special_Puppy]

With about 20 games left, I still have Jokic ahead. 3rd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 4th in 3pt %, 1st in triple doubles and 2nd in double-doubles, although now with Sabonis out, he's going to pass Sabonis in double-doubles.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Brunson
5. Giannis
6. LeBron
7. Cunningham

I'd counter that lots of his assists are just dribble handoffs and pitch backs. Thats why despite his low time of possession hes first in "passes" per game by a wide margin and 2nd in potential assists per game. The 3s he shoots are almost exclusively wide open looks from the top of the key (68.5% of his attempts are from there, and they aren't created off the dribble).

I see alot of people reference Westbrooks triple doubles years as stat padding, saying his MVP was fraudulent. How many times does Jokic not shoot much early but rack up assists (just like westbrook did). Not Jokic though. This is SGAs year.

Except we know Denver's ORTG with him on vs. him off is the best in the league, so obviously what he's doing is impactful. I do agree this award is SGA's though.

Out of curiosity what makes you lean towards SGA?

[hardenASG13]

With about 20 games left, I still have Jokic ahead. 3rd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 4th in 3pt %, 1st in triple doubles and 2nd in double-doubles, although now with Sabonis out, he's going to pass Sabonis in double-doubles.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Tatum
4. Brunson
5. Giannis
6. LeBron
7. Cunningham

I'd counter that lots of his assists are just dribble handoffs and pitch backs. Thats why despite his low time of possession hes first in "passes" per game by a wide margin and 2nd in potential assists per game. The 3s he shoots are almost exclusively wide open looks from the top of the key (68.5% of his attempts are from there, and they aren't created off the dribble).

I see alot of people reference Westbrooks triple doubles years as stat padding, saying his MVP was fraudulent. How many times does Jokic not shoot much early but rack up assists (just like westbrook did). Not Jokic though. This is SGAs year.

Don’t think I’ve ever heard the critique that Jokic racks up a lot of “empty” assists. It’s tough to measure this, but the eFG% on Jokic’s assists are 65.5% this year (adjusting for turnovers). Jokic also rates well in “high value assists” (rim assists, 3 point assists, and FT assists). Also rates well in BBall Index’s “Passing Creation Quality” metric but I’m not sure how it’s calculated

It's not so much a critique, rather a statement on how Denver runs their offense. Jokic may be the only guy capable of being used the way Denver uses him, but he racks up lots of assists just handing the ball to a guy running/curling off him then setting a screen on their defender, often at the top of the key area. It leads to lots of assists, and inflates numbers to a degree. It plays out very well in formulas many here use to discuss basketball. I'd like to see it translate to beating good teams in the playoffs, upsetting a team or 2 like a guy like Luka has, etc. You can argue the same about SGA for now, but it looks like the west is OKCs to lose this year so that might not be the case much longer.

[Ambrose]

I'd counter that lots of his assists are just dribble handoffs and pitch backs. Thats why despite his low time of possession hes first in "passes" per game by a wide margin and 2nd in potential assists per game. The 3s he shoots are almost exclusively wide open looks from the top of the key (68.5% of his attempts are from there, and they aren't created off the dribble).

I see alot of people reference Westbrooks triple doubles years as stat padding, saying his MVP was fraudulent. How many times does Jokic not shoot much early but rack up assists (just like westbrook did). Not Jokic though. This is SGAs year.

Except we know Denver's ORTG with him on vs. him off is the best in the league, so obviously what he's doing is impactful. I do agree this award is SGA's though.

Out of curiosity what makes you lean towards SGA?

I don't think the gap in play this year is going to be big enough to justify the difference in team results when SGA himself is having an absolutely amazing year.

[Special_Puppy]

Read on Twitter

[SA37]

I'd counter that lots of his assists are just dribble handoffs and pitch backs. Thats why despite his low time of possession hes first in "passes" per game by a wide margin and 2nd in potential assists per game. The 3s he shoots are almost exclusively wide open looks from the top of the key (68.5% of his attempts are from there, and they aren't created off the dribble).

I see alot of people reference Westbrooks triple doubles years as stat padding, saying his MVP was fraudulent. How many times does Jokic not shoot much early but rack up assists (just like westbrook did). Not Jokic though. This is SGAs year.

Don’t think I’ve ever heard the critique that Jokic racks up a lot of “empty” assists. It’s tough to measure this, but the eFG% on Jokic’s assists are 65.5% this year (adjusting for turnovers). Jokic also rates well in “high value assists” (rim assists, 3 point assists, and FT assists). Also rates well in BBall Index’s “Passing Creation Quality” metric but I’m not sure how it’s calculated

It's not so much a critique, rather a statement on how Denver runs their offense. Jokic may be the only guy capable of being used the way Denver uses him, but he racks up lots of assists just handing the ball to a guy running/curling off him then setting a screen on their defender, often at the top of the key area. It leads to lots of assists, and inflates numbers to a degree. It plays out very well in formulas many here use to discuss basketball. I'd like to see it translate to beating good teams in the playoffs, upsetting a team or 2 like a guy like Luka has, etc. You can argue the same about SGA for now, but it looks like the west is OKCs to lose this year so that might not be the case much longer.

I find the line of argument over "empty" assists pretty weak. The 3-point argument is absurd. Is the next argument going to be he gets lots of rebounds because he is tall and stands near the basket?

No issue if you think SGA should get the MVP, but c'mon.