No argument that Brown ≥ Tatum

[Big_Aristotle]

If you want statistics to prove your point, you have to be complete and take both sides of the ball.

The OP highlights how Tatum scores more on a little higher efficiency that JB. But what is the role that each player gets in offense? How many FG opportunities did both get? Who gets the harder assignment on defense?

I looked at that in a bit more detail, including attempts evolution and there you see that Jayson Tatum has higher PPG and efficiency because he's evolved in taking more 3-pointers and making them at a higher rate than JB.

Then, you also have to look at defensive efficiency. Here Jaylen Brown appears much better than JT, just check last season, this season and the last playoff series.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628369/defense-dash?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Playoffs
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627759/defense-dash?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Playoffs

So you can attribute JT's better offensive performance because JB gets the more difficult assignment in defense and expends a lot more energy there + there is a good chance that JT gets more favorable plays for him in offense to give him better looks and higher percentage shots than JB.

So JB is shutting down the best offensive player of the other team and is barely worse in offensive efficiency than JT while (most likely) gets least favorable positions in their scheme. Based on that you can easily argue that JB is the better and most impactful player if you look at both sides of the ball, but they are used differently to complement each other.

[M2J]

If you want statistics to prove your point, you have to be complete and take both sides of the ball.

The OP highlights how Tatum scores more on a little higher efficiency that JB. But what is the role that each player gets in offense? How many FG opportunities did both get? Who gets the harder assignment on defense?

I looked at that in a bit more detail, including attempts evolution and there you see that Jayson Tatum has higher PPG and efficiency because he's evolved in taking more 3-pointers and making them at a higher rate than JB.

Then, you also have to look at defensive efficiency. Here Jaylen Brown appears much better than JT, just check last season, this season and the last playoff series.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628369/defense-dash?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Playoffs
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627759/defense-dash?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Playoffs

So you can attribute JT's better offensive performance because JB gets the more difficult assignment in defense and expends a lot more energy there + there is a good chance that JT gets more favorable plays for him in offense to give him better looks and higher percentage shots than JB.

So JB is shutting down the best offensive player of the other team and is barely worse in offensive efficiency than JT while (most likely) gets least favorable positions in their scheme. Based on that you can easily argue that JB is the better and most impactful player if you look at both sides of the ball, but they are used differently to complement each other.

They both have their flaws, as in JB still needs to look at the ball while dribbling. Tatum wants to be Kobe and take wild shots he can't make consistently... Which leads to his inefficiency.

But as you portrayed and I said earlier... JB gives you consistent all star level play on both sides, especially in the playoffs. Tatum is capable. They're both inconsistent 3pt guys, but the thing about Brown is he's going to get to that little spot in the paint and rise above anybody guarding him or get to the rim in tough situations. The thing I know about Tatum is he's going to take a dumb shot.

[Fencer reregistered]

This is my argument which is not to say I think Jaylen is better, but I think that the Celtics team proved it needed him when it mattered most.

They needed all of their guys in order to win a title. That isn't unusual.

Yes, but I feel Jaylen is consistently better in the clutch, while Jayson has a greater overall impact throughout the regular season. Both factors are important in different ways. Jaylen certainly earned his Finals MVP, while Jayson was their regular-season MVP. Since the game becomes tougher in the postseason, I lean slightly toward Jaylen in my appreciation. The comparison is warranted since they play similar positions on the same team, and I find myself somewhere between the two main viewpoints I’ve seen on this board—valuing both sustained excellence and performance when it matters most.

The "clutch" argument for Jaylen is overrated. He DOES have the ability to dial up aggression when he feels it appropriate. (Historically that was often in Q1) I am perhaps alone in speculating that this is related to both his father and grandfather being good heavyweight boxers. (Dad won a bogus world championship. Granddad was a sparring partner for multiple real world champions.) But Jayson is the one with the resume of going off in big games. Doesn't he hold the records for most points scored in a Game 7 and in a play-in game alike?

[Fencer reregistered]

Only time I've said Brown was better than Tatum was last season's Finals. He played a hair better. Overall, Tatum has been better.

Brown has leapfrogged Tatum for a month or two at time -- especially early in a season -- when one had hot shooting and one had cold. That happened 2 or 3 more times than I ever expected it too.

But overall Tatum is clearly the better player.

On the other hand, Brown is the more capable and willing vocal leader, and Tatum is happy for him to take that role. Brown even calls himself the "captain" on a team where the coach has clearly said he doesn't believe in captains, which is just one way he's cringey in that vocal leadership stuff. But so far that hasn't been a problem.

[Exp0sed]

I believe you'll find the majority of people here agree with you. The JB>JT noise may be loud, but it's definitely a fringe minority.

no1 thinks JB is better than JT overall, I haven't heard that in years. ppl just think that JB is a better closer, mentally tougher in the big moments etc. and he certainly has a case for that.

[Big_Aristotle]

I believe you'll find the majority of people here agree with you. The JB>JT noise may be loud, but it's definitely a fringe minority.

no1 thinks JB is better than JT overall, I haven't heard that in years. ppl just think that JB is a better closer, mentally tougher in the big moments etc. and he certainly has a case for that.

Isn't that the true definition of a better player? "JB is a better closer, mentally tougher in the big moments etc."

[LuckyGreen7]

RE: defense

I think the reason you see JB draw the tougher assignment on the wing isn't necessarily because he's all that much better than JT at man to man defense or that they want to conserve JTs energy for the offensive end of the floor.

It's because JT is a better help defender in the paint and has the length to switch to any 4 and most 5s in the league, which is something JB doesn't have the size to do as well.

It's all part of Joe's overall team defense strategy and when they also have Al and KP healthy, it's very effective. When you have those two plus JT for the paint plus Jrue, White and Brown contesting threes, they are an elite defensive team. There's only been a few stretches this season where all six have been in peak health and that's the main reason why their record while very good, lags behind OK and CL. Hopefully they have the health needed for a repeat. They have the talent this year to do it. Not sure about next with their cap situation and having to retool a bit.

[SA37]

There are people saying Brown is better than Tatum? Huh?

I swear, if Tatum was putting up 30 as the lone star on the Pacers or Blazers people wouldn't be having all these stupid arguments about his place in the league.

The guy is a top 10 player, get over it.

The Tatum "hate" or under appreciation is wild. He's turned himself into a consistent all-NBA player (3 straight years) and a top candidate for MVP (6th, 4th, 6th the last 3 years).

Tatum is a lock to be all-NBA again this year and he's going to finish in the top-5 in MVP voting. He won't get picked over Jokic or SGA, but it's hard to think of a player who deserves to be ahead of him for 3rd. Maybe Jalen Brunson.

[165bows]

RE: defense

I think the reason you see JB draw the tougher assignment on the wing isn't necessarily because he's all that much better than JT at man to man defense or that they want to conserve JTs energy for the offensive end of the floor.

It's because JT is a better help defender in the paint and has the length to switch to any 4 and most 5s in the league, which is something JB doesn't have the size to do as well.

It's all part of Joe's overall team defense strategy and when they also have Al and KP healthy, it's very effective. When you have those two plus JT for the paint plus Jrue, White and Brown contesting threes, they are an elite defensive team. There's only been a few stretches this season where all six have been in peak health and that's the main reason why their record while very good, lags behind OK and CL. Hopefully they have the health needed for a repeat. They have the talent this year to do it. Not sure about next with their cap situation and having to retool a bit.

This is a good assessment imo. JB was great last playoffs and they won, surprise surprise. JB can also be total *** on D for big stretches as well, and as you said, he's more limited to this on-ball for a primary ball handler role that you mentioned in terms of his plus D ability.

On the JB is clutch thing above, he doesn't really have the track record of JT but imo it's the big storyline for him (that impacts how people see the pair of them both) is what does JB do going forward. A couple more seasons of '23 ECF against Miami and that Finals run will be considered a flash in the pan very quickly. If JB can dial it up like he did last year again they will be on the cusp of a title not withstanding injuries.

But it's very much like Zaxh Lowe said in mid-2024, JB is a big swing player on how the overall season can go. Not trying to tear JB down but for the JB is more clutch crowd, they might be forgetting his .418/.163/.667 line in the 23 ECF. Tl;dr we've seen things go in two big-time different directions w JB and it's going to be fascinating to see which one shows up over the next 2-4 years going forward.

[brackdan70]

I've seen a sizable minority of posters who treat "the Jays" as being on the same level, with some even claiming JB is better. I was predisposed to dislike Tatum from the very beginning (think Fultz draft ) so it doesn't give me joy to make this argument. However, I am on the side of truth even when I don't like it. Today's truth is that there is no argument JB is equal to (and certainly not greater than) JT.

Bold = advantage
* = tie

Jayson Tatum
2018: 13.9ppg on 58.6 TS% / 5.0rpg / *1.6apg / *1.0spg / 0.7bpg / +8.5 on/off

2019: 15.7ppg on *54.7 TS% / 6.0rpg / 2.1apg / 1.1spg / 0.7bpg / +4.6 on/off

2020: 23.4ppg on 56.7 TS% / 7.0rpg / 3.0apg / 1.4spg / 0.9bpg / +11.1 on/off

2021: 26.4ppg on 57.6 TS% / 7.4rpg / 4.3apg / *1.2spg / 0.5bpg / +5.3 on/off

2022: 26.9ppg on 57.8 TS% / 8.0 rpg / 4.4apg / 1.0spg / 0.6bpg / +13.8 on/off

2023: 30.1ppg on 60.7 TS% / 8.8 rpg / 4.6apg / *1.1spg / 0.7bpg / +5.5 on/off

2024: 26.9ppg on 60.4 TS% / 8.1 rpg / 4.9 apg / 1.0spg / 0.6bpg / -1.2 on/off

2025: 26.8ppg on 58.5 TS% / 8.8 rpg / 5.8 apg / 1.1spg / 0.5bpg / +1.6 on/off

Playoffs (career): 24.0ppg on 56.6 TS% / 7.9rpg / 4.9apg / 1.1spg / 0.9bpg / +5.2 on/off



Jaylen Brown
2018: 14.5ppg on 56.2 TS% / 4.9rpg / *1.6apg / *1.0spg / 0.4bpg / +8.2 on/off

2019: 13.0ppg on *54.7 TS% / 4.2rpg / 1.4apg / 0.9spg / 0.4bpg / -3.7 on/off

2020: 20.3ppg on 58.3 TS% / 6.4rpg / 2.1apg / 1.1spg / 0.4bpg / -0.8 on/off

2021: 24.7ppg on 58.6 TS% / 6.0rpg / 3.4apg / *1.2spg / 0.6bpg / +0.6 on/off

2022: 23.6ppg on 57.4 TS% / 6.1rpg / 3.5apg / 1.1spg / 0.3bpg / +5.4 on/off

2023: 26.6ppg on 58.1 TS% / 6.9rpg / 3.5apg / *1.1spg / 0.4bpg / -3.9 on/off

2024: 23.0ppg on 58.0 TS% / 5.5rpg / 3.6apg / 1.2spg / 0.5bpg / -7.7 on/off

2025: 23.2ppg on 55.6 TS% / 6.0rpg / 4.7 apg / 1.2spg / 0.3bpg / -1.8 on/off

Playoffs (career): 19.1ppg on 57.9 TS% / 5.6rpg / 2.4apg / 1.0spg / 0.4bpg / -4.7 on/off



I left out JB's rookie season because Tatum wasn't in the league yet, but his stats were... not good.

Welcome to the world of the obvious. Tatum has been a perennial 1st team all NBA guy, consistently top 10 to top 5 in impact metrics.
Brown has been a very good all star level player but nowhere close to Tatum. I had to check the date on this post.

[hardenASG13]

The playoffs and finals run last year showed me who’s the better leader of the team and it’s clearly Brown. They need to stop making overrated Tatum the number 1 option.

The Celtics play beautiful team ball though. You're talking about Brown winning ECF MVP and Finals MVP. Those were 4 and 5 game series. Of course Brown is good enough to win an MVP in those short series, as is White, as is Porzingis. It doesn't change that Tatum is consistently their best player though. The guy is a winning player and has been since he's entered the league.

[Exp0sed]

I believe you'll find the majority of people here agree with you. The JB>JT noise may be loud, but it's definitely a fringe minority.

no1 thinks JB is better than JT overall, I haven't heard that in years. ppl just think that JB is a better closer, mentally tougher in the big moments etc. and he certainly has a case for that.

Isn't that the true definition of a better player? "JB is a better closer, mentally tougher in the big moments etc."

not really

it's nice to be a top seed year after year, makes life alot easier come playoffs time and Tatum drives that success more than JB.
there's also the first quarter, the second etc..meaning: crunch time never comes if ur down 20, it's not just the final plays that count

Tatum is a bigger, better and more versatile defender too, and it's not like they're night and day as ballers or closers, they're close, but yes some ppl give that nod to JB and imo rightfully so but that's very different than JB being the better "player" of the two - he isn't..

[Ice Man]

Jaylen Brown is a top 18ish player in the league.

Hmmm, maybe. The analytics consistently say he's nowhere near that level. For example, he is 87th on VORP this year and 66th on Wish Shares per 48 minutes. The statistics penalize him for being a volume scorer rather than an efficient one, and they rate his defense as meh.

That seems a bit harsh to me, but there's no question that he is well behind Tatum. Always has been, likely always will be.

[CobraCommander]

There are moments in games or whole games or whole series where brown is better. But JT is better over all.

Lucky for Boston that they got them both

Btw there were games where Pippen was better than MJ-

[Godymas]

anyone who even remotely suggests Jaylen Brown is better than Tatum is basically a litmus test for "do not take their opinion seriously, they don't watch the game and know nothing about the sport"

Tatum is LEAGUES ahead of Brown. Brown is barely an All Star, he's like the best version of a microwave scorer, he's barely prime Klay Thompson level in terms of impact.

[DLoMor]

I believe you'll find the majority of people here agree with you. The JB>JT noise may be loud, but it's definitely a fringe minority.

no1 thinks JB is better than JT overall, I haven't heard that in years. ppl just think that JB is a better closer, mentally tougher in the big moments etc. and he certainly has a case for that.

I’ve always thought that JB is better than JT and I stand by my opinion and I’ve said my reasons why. JB acts more like a leader and Tatum acts immature a lot.

[LuckyGreen7]

One thing is for certain, Boston nailed both picks in back to back years.

JB likely drafted 2nd at worst in a redraft behind Sabonis.....maybe

JT probably a consensus #1 in a redraft outside of Mitchell homers.

[165bows]

Jaylen Brown is a top 18ish player in the league.

Hmmm, maybe. The analytics consistently say he's nowhere near that level. For example, he is 87th on VORP this year and 66th on Wish Shares per 48 minutes. The statistics penalize him for being a volume scorer rather than an efficient one, and they rate his defense as meh.

That seems a bit harsh to me, but there's no question that he is well behind Tatum. Always has been, likely always will be.

No question he hasn't been that great at times this year. Like I said above, big question is what version of him do we see going forward over the next few years.

[ITYSL]

One thing is for certain, Boston nailed both picks in back to back years.

JB likely drafted 2nd at worst in a redraft behind Sabonis.....maybe

JT probably a consensus #1 in a redraft outside of Mitchell homers.

JB behind Sabonis and Siakam for me. Still a great draft for the Celtics there.

[CobraCommander]

One thing is for certain, Boston nailed both picks in back to back years.

JB likely drafted 2nd at worst in a redraft behind Sabonis.....maybe

JT probably a consensus #1 in a redraft outside of Mitchell homers.

this is the point...they hit on both! and won a chip!

that's what good teams do... draft core and recruit pieces to support a ring