2024-2025 Regular Season Game 63: Toronto Raptors (19-42) at Orlando Magic (29-33) - 7pm

[magik9113]

we suck, y'all!
but remember,
we've been thru worse
AND
we're in this together!
<3
MAGIC FANS FOREVER
<3333

[zaymon]

Which problem do you blame?

Paolo going into whole team and forcing a midranger ? Then we wonder why our offense has no rhytm and shooters score 0 points.....

What are you talking about? He’s almost right at the basket in the paint and every one on opposing team is rushing to him. Your hate for Paolo is literally blinding you.

Hate ?.... and you feel what... love ? almost right to the basket ? everyone is rushing by standing with their hands up?

[Audi]

To summarize:

There are currently two groups of people here who see this and while both identify a problem, they blame two different things for it.

Which problem do you blame?

Paolo going into whole team and forcing a midranger ? Then we wonder why our offense has no rhytm and shooters score 0 points.....

Paolo is to blame because he shouldn’t take this shot.
ALSO
Paolo is not to blame because he shouldn’t have to take this shot.

[pepe1991]

To summarize:

There are currently two groups of people here who see this and while both identify a problem, they blame two different things for it.

Literally taking on the entire team. “BuT hIs DeE ArR TEe GeE yO..” Ridiculous

Find me one logical explanation why would player take such shot?
4 on 1 means pretty much all his teammates are open.
Taking well contested mid range jumper over whole starting lineup makes sense how?

This picture sums a lot. But not things you think it sums. It sums picture of player who chases shots & points and isn't playing smart, so it translates into playing losing basketball.

This is polar opposite of guys like Lebron who will make right BASKETBALL play no matter how s***ty his teammates are , and over period of time his teammates start looking better because they grow confidence by actually - playing and shooting.
Lebron had multiple playoff runs where he would give up okey shot to open shot to scrubs like Matthew Dellavedova (who shot 35% FG btw in playoffs) ; Iman Shumpert, JR Smith was trusted with big -clutch shots.
On Heat, with Wade, Lebron, Bosh, often ball ended up in situations where Mario Chalmers or Ray Allen got clutch shots.

Even today, with Luka, with Lebron, out of all people Austin Reves shoots A LOT. Jimmy Butler has no issues being 4th to 5th option on offense if it benefits team. Against us he took 7 shots. Last night he took 12 shots, Edwards took 11 shots last night.

I'm still waiting to somebody to post when was last time somebody not named Paolo or Franz lead team in FGA for single game

Franz and Paolo took 43 out of 83 shots last night. Others are extras in offense and play as such, they are borderline shocked when they get ball in scoring position.

Magic "improving roster" will mean nothing if we continue to play in such fashion. It's predictable offense that benefits nobody but "all star numbers" of XY player. I don't watch basketball to see 2 playres padd personal stats against tanking team so they can make it to game nobody watches ( all star game) i watch basketball to see my favorite team win games.

We aren't winning. We have one of worst offenses in past 5 years. Two guys shoot 50% of shots and people don't think they are at least *part* of the problem?

[JoshuaPotter]

Unpictured in that photo is 1 dude under the rim, and 1 dude in the corner net set to receive a pass and my guess is two other players missing on offense.

I can blame Paolo for taking a contested shot all day, but nothing in this photo tells me what happened, it just if anything exposes the defensive plan.

[OrlChamps2030]

To summarize:

There are currently two groups of people here who see this and while both identify a problem, they blame two different things for it.

Literally taking on the entire team. “BuT hIs DeE ArR TEe GeE yO..” Ridiculous

Find me one logical explanation why would player take such shot?
4 on 1 means pretty much all his teammates are open.
Taking well contested mid range jumper over whole starting lineup makes sense how?

This picture sums a lot. But not things you think it sums. It sums picture of player who chases shots & points and isn't playing smart, so it translates into playing losing basketball.

This is polar opposite of guys like Lebron who will make right BASKETBALL play no matter how s***ty his teammates are , and over period of time his teammates start looking better because they grow confidence by actually - playing and shooting.
Lebron had multiple playoff runs where he would give up okey shot to open shot to scrubs like Matthew Dellavedova (who shot 35% FG btw in playoffs) ; Iman Shumpert, JR Smith was trusted with big -clutch shots.
On Heat, with Wade, Lebron, Bosh, often ball ended up in situations where Mario Chalmers or Ray Allen got clutch shots.

Even today, with Luka, with Lebron, out of all people Austin Reves shoots A LOT. Jimmy Butler has no issues being 4th to 5th option on offense if it benefits team. Against us he took 7 shots. Last night he took 12 shots, Edwards took 11 shots last night.

I'm still waiting to somebody to post when was last time somebody not named Paolo or Franz lead team in FGA for single game

Franz and Paolo took 43 out of 83 shots last night. Others are extras in offense and play as such, they are borderline shocked when they get ball in scoring position.

Magic "improving roster" will mean nothing if we continue to play in such fashion. It's predictable offense that benefits nobody but "all star numbers" of XY player. I don't watch basketball to see 2 playres padd personal stats against tanking team so they can make it to game nobody watches ( all star game) i watch basketball to see my favorite team win games.

We aren't winning. We have one of worst offenses in past 5 years. Two guys shoot 50% of shots and people don't think they are at least *part* of the problem?

Paolo and Franz shouldn’t escape all the blame.. but RE: the bolded - outside of Cole on a career night .. who even has the skill and shot creation ability (or even shot making ability) to lead this team in FGA’s?

IMO almost every issue with Paolo and Mosely is rooted in roster construction.

[pepe1991]

[zaymon]

Its also funny that all posters who defended bad players in the past came to defend Banchero. I think i have my bingo card almost filled.
Its sad that its going this way, but Paolo Banchero is not more important than Orlando Magic. Guys is playing losing basketball and he blames others just like his mother. I thought he is better than that. Trade asap.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

no doubt Paolo is forcing things especially with his competitiveness and lack of other offensive talent. He said it himself in the Ringer puff piece. Sometimes he tries to take over game which can be a blessing in disguise but also worst thing for us.

Key takeaway I'd say is take everything post all-star break and forget about it. FO didn't care enough to make a move for guard help/plate setter after Paolo asked for it in the summer, then probably did before the deadline. Paolo has since then tried to do it on his own in certain games etc etc

[Blue_and_Whte]

Literally taking on the entire team. “BuT hIs DeE ArR TEe GeE yO..” Ridiculous

Find me one logical explanation why would player take such shot?
4 on 1 means pretty much all his teammates are open.
Taking well contested mid range jumper over whole starting lineup makes sense how?

This picture sums a lot. But not things you think it sums. It sums picture of player who chases shots & points and isn't playing smart, so it translates into playing losing basketball.

This is polar opposite of guys like Lebron who will make right BASKETBALL play no matter how s***ty his teammates are , and over period of time his teammates start looking better because they grow confidence by actually - playing and shooting.
Lebron had multiple playoff runs where he would give up okey shot to open shot to scrubs like Matthew Dellavedova (who shot 35% FG btw in playoffs) ; Iman Shumpert, JR Smith was trusted with big -clutch shots.
On Heat, with Wade, Lebron, Bosh, often ball ended up in situations where Mario Chalmers or Ray Allen got clutch shots.

Even today, with Luka, with Lebron, out of all people Austin Reves shoots A LOT. Jimmy Butler has no issues being 4th to 5th option on offense if it benefits team. Against us he took 7 shots. Last night he took 12 shots, Edwards took 11 shots last night.

I'm still waiting to somebody to post when was last time somebody not named Paolo or Franz lead team in FGA for single game

Franz and Paolo took 43 out of 83 shots last night. Others are extras in offense and play as such, they are borderline shocked when they get ball in scoring position.

Magic "improving roster" will mean nothing if we continue to play in such fashion. It's predictable offense that benefits nobody but "all star numbers" of XY player. I don't watch basketball to see 2 playres padd personal stats against tanking team so they can make it to game nobody watches ( all star game) i watch basketball to see my favorite team win games.

We aren't winning. We have one of worst offenses in past 5 years. Two guys shoot 50% of shots and people don't think they are at least *part* of the problem?

Paolo and Franz shouldn’t escape all the blame.. but RE: the bolded - outside of Cole on a career night .. who even has the skill and shot creation ability (or even shot making ability) to lead this team in FGA’s?

IMO almost every issue with Paolo and Mosely is rooted in roster construction.

Its mostly construction they can keep pretending LeBrons worst teammates aren't 20 times better than the trash we have.

The smartest basketball play is giving it to your best players and living with the consequences. Is it really a bad shot going 1v4 close to the rim with a chance to get fouled by one of the four players or passing it out to AB for a likely brick? As constructed that is the smartest play. Lets also not pretend PB doesn't ever make the right passes.
Get real players around these guys man. Dude is the only reason we were in this last game, including a game tying 3pt shot and yall talking about not playing winning basketball. Get out of here.

[thelead]

Its also funny that all posters who defended bad players in the past came to defend Banchero. I think i have my bingo card almost filled.
Its sad that its going this way, but Paolo Banchero is not more important than Orlando Magic. Guys is playing losing basketball and he blames others just like his mother. I thought he is better than that. Trade asap.

Terrible, Terrible shot. He has been doing less of that lately which I’ve been praising him for in game threads and is the reason why his efficiency looks great the last 5 games. Can he continue to improve? We’ll see but let’s not also pretend that all the great players don’t take terrible shots… they just make them more often than Paolo has.

[Skybox]

This is definitely a chicken and egg thing...I'm sure Paolo can do better, but I also think there is, literally, NO system of offensive movement or plan. I think our immensely talented #1 overall physical specimen deserves the benefit of the doubt - at least until there's any sort of order around him...and, yes, I think he's talented enough to build it "around him" (as you'd hope it would be for a top overall pick).

If you think he's doing all of this inefficient stuff because he's selfish or just ignoring the Coach...I disagree. Even in "selfish loser mode", he gets more assists than many PG's in the NBA and he plays across the floor from a similar specimen. Together, there's a TON of potential for a movement offense that lights up the NBA...my opinion.

It doesn't feel good but more and more pointing to Mose. How does everyone on the team shoot career lows?

[HighPack]

Raptors stole not just two wins but Castleton too.

[JoshuaPotter]

I'm guessing this was directed towards me because I brought it up.

For me it's what I have been saying. 2 things can be true at the same time. It can be a poorly contested shot, and it statistically can also be the highest percentage shot due to the roster surrounding him.

This is probably my old school thinking where I haven't processed how "bad" you have to shoot from 3 (33%?) to equal 50%+ fg percentages.

Yet, we have managed to be exactly that bad.

[IllMagic04]

I going to remember all these ridicules post about Paolo when he actually has shooting around him. Dude dropped 41/8/8 and he is getting blame. Am I in the twilight zone? Raptors are trash yes but the shots he was making in the 4th quarter were superstar shots regardless. We have waited for a player like this for a long time.

[VFX]

People seem to be missing the Paolo argument.

Is he the source of the entire problem? No.
Is he a symptom of the problems on offense? Kinda.

You always look to who is the primary offense is geared toward and what their usage happens to be in wins and losses.
Paolo isn't an efficient player. He could be more efficient with a point guard and shooters. Suggs does half of this with creation and its no mystery that the offense looks better with him in an ancillary way.

Nobody here is saying Paolo sucks and is the main reason the offense sucks. People are pointing out that him being the #1 option is absolutely a problem within the context of the roster right now. That isn't some hot take here. It's almost entirely factual. As a #1 option he has the same exact skillset as Franz, doesn't often look to shoot beyond the arc, relies on drawing fouls instead of finishing, etc.

Its also not really his fault that the system is just basically trash for him. Its absolutely a problem that he's our #1 option on offense based on usage if you DO NOT trust this front office to actually make him look efficient and develop a passable floor game.

[Audi]

People seem to be missing the Paolo argument.

Is he the source of the entire problem? No.
Is he a symptom of the problems on offense? Kinda.

You always look to who is the primary offense is geared toward and what their usage happens to be in wins and losses.
Paolo isn't an efficient player. He could be more efficient with a point guard and shooters. Suggs does half of this with creation and its no mystery that the offense looks better with him in an ancillary way.

Nobody here is saying Paolo sucks and is the reason the offense sucks. People are pointing out that him being the #1 option is absolutely a problem within the context of the roster right now. That isn't some hot take here. It's almost entirely factual. As a #1 option he has the same exact skillset as Franz, doesn't often look to shoot beyond the arc, relies on drawing fouls instead of finishing, etc.

It’s also not really his fault that the system is just basically trash for him. Its absolutely a problem that he's our #1 option on offense based on usage if you DO NOT trust this front office to actually make him look efficient and develop a passable floor game.

And yet - there are some here who’s next logical step isn’t “axe the FO because they can’t be trusted to make him look efficient”, it’s “trade him”.

[Skybox]

People seem to be missing the Paolo argument.

Is he the source of the entire problem? No.
Is he a symptom of the problems on offense? Kinda.

You always look to who is the primary offense is geared toward and what their usage happens to be in wins and losses.
Paolo isn't an efficient player. He could be more efficient with a point guard and shooters. Suggs does half of this with creation and its no mystery that the offense looks better with him in an ancillary way.

Nobody here is saying Paolo sucks and is the reason the offense sucks. People are pointing out that him being the #1 option is absolutely a problem within the context of the roster right now. That isn't some hot take here. It's almost entirely factual. As a #1 option he has the same exact skillset as Franz, doesn't often look to shoot beyond the arc, relies on drawing fouls instead of finishing, etc.

It’s also not really his fault that the system is just basically trash for him. Its absolutely a problem that he's our #1 option on offense based on usage if you DO NOT trust this front office to actually make him look efficient and develop a passable floor game.

And yet - there are some here who’s next logical step isn’t “axe the FO because they can’t be trusted to make him look efficient”, it’s “trade him”.

Has ANYBODY actually said "Trade him"?

Same s**t, different day and star player. Where every thread is a meltdown and every idea is a threat or a conspiracy

[VFX]

People seem to be missing the Paolo argument.

Is he the source of the entire problem? No.
Is he a symptom of the problems on offense? Kinda.

You always look to who is the primary offense is geared toward and what their usage happens to be in wins and losses.
Paolo isn't an efficient player. He could be more efficient with a point guard and shooters. Suggs does half of this with creation and its no mystery that the offense looks better with him in an ancillary way.

Nobody here is saying Paolo sucks and is the reason the offense sucks. People are pointing out that him being the #1 option is absolutely a problem within the context of the roster right now. That isn't some hot take here. It's almost entirely factual. As a #1 option he has the same exact skillset as Franz, doesn't often look to shoot beyond the arc, relies on drawing fouls instead of finishing, etc.

It’s also not really his fault that the system is just basically trash for him. Its absolutely a problem that he's our #1 option on offense based on usage if you DO NOT trust this front office to actually make him look efficient and develop a passable floor game.

And yet - there are some here who’s next logical step isn’t “axe the FO because they can’t be trusted to make him look efficient”, it’s “trade him”.

It's a catch 22 based on the decisions they've already made though.

They have already maxed Franz and given Suggs a large deal. Both of those guys IN MY OPINION are untouchable unless its for a superstar return. So people are naturally weighing other options. You either believe a roster is salvageable with those contracts, or it will be a difficult uphill battle. Franz offense is too valuable and Suggs defense is basically the team identity if they DO NOT have a functional system in place.

Im camp "FIRE FO" regardless. Its not even a question and hasn't been for years. Paolo hasnt necessarily inspired supreme confidence though as a primary option on offense though, which is his entire game... The question becomes... "Does a complete change of the system on offense with a point guard change his game completely?" I lean no. He is who he is. But id love to be wong and see the alternative regardless.

It's just whether or not you want to hand him a completely max deal and suffer the consequences should he not change with a system update, because then we are kinda screwed.

[Bakomagic]

People seem to be missing the Paolo argument.

Is he the source of the entire problem? No.
Is he a symptom of the problems on offense? Kinda.

You always look to who is the primary offense is geared toward and what their usage happens to be in wins and losses.
Paolo isn't an efficient player. He could be more efficient with a point guard and shooters. Suggs does half of this with creation and its no mystery that the offense looks better with him in an ancillary way.

Nobody here is saying Paolo sucks and is the reason the offense sucks. People are pointing out that him being the #1 option is absolutely a problem within the context of the roster right now. That isn't some hot take here. It's almost entirely factual. As a #1 option he has the same exact skillset as Franz, doesn't often look to shoot beyond the arc, relies on drawing fouls instead of finishing, etc.

It’s also not really his fault that the system is just basically trash for him. Its absolutely a problem that he's our #1 option on offense based on usage if you DO NOT trust this front office to actually make him look efficient and develop a passable floor game.

And yet - there are some here who’s next logical step isn’t “axe the FO because they can’t be trusted to make him look efficient”, it’s “trade him”.

Has ANYBODY actually said "Trade him"?

Same s**t, different day and star player. Where every thread is a meltdown and every idea is a threat or a conspiracy

It’s definitely been said