Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[paulpressey25]

I didn't realize Thon is in the G League this year. 27 games, shooting 22% from the floor, 40% from the FT line. He's only "28"

Wild. He's close in age to Middleton, likely 32.

I know some (and Lasry) hated this board in June 2016, but it was amazing how the team attempted to sweep the age thing under the rug. The question I'd have for Horst is - did the Bucks brass know his real age before they drafted him?

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I don't know how anyone can say Marjon was a "swing for the fences" type pick. Dude was a 22-year old rookie and fit a very specific 3&D role-player archetype. His draft profile never screamed "high upside" in the slightest. I've maintained that Horst's biggest issue with drafting is that he tends to fall in love with specific archetypes while focusing too much on immediate need. AJ Johnson was probably the first pick he ever made that bucked that trend.

Yea I would've agreed with that. But to them it was, get this guy late in the draft because he didn't play the last couple years and hope he's actually like a top 5 pick because he was ranked high in HS. So the hope that he was an under the radar star in the future. Vs just taking a guy you think can play a role very soon, even if he has no star potential. But yea people like us, went uh he's 22 already and has barely played any basketball lately

Yeah, he wasn't a swing for the fence Giannis type guy (but really was Giannis even that?) but he was a swing for the fence that you get a Top 10 pick for the price of pick 24.

I didn't like the pick, but it was the 24th pick. How many contender rotational quality guys were in that draft? Are there 20 guys that would beat out vet mins like Prince and Trent?

[mattg]

I don't know how anyone can say Marjon was a "swing for the fences" type pick. Dude was a 22-year old rookie and fit a very specific 3&D role-player archetype. His draft profile never screamed "high upside" in the slightest. I've maintained that Horst's biggest issue with drafting is that he tends to fall in love with specific archetypes while focusing too much on immediate need. AJ Johnson was probably the first pick he ever made that bucked that trend.

Yea I would've agreed with that. But to them it was, get this guy late in the draft because he didn't play the last couple years and hope he's actually like a top 5 pick because he was ranked high in HS. So the hope that he was an under the radar star in the future. Vs just taking a guy you think can play a role very soon, even if he has no star potential. But yea people like us, went uh he's 22 already and has barely played any basketball lately

The reality is, guys who played for like 5 different high schools or high school equivalent teams cuz some of those were fake schools, then don't even play meaningful organized basketball beyond that just are NEVER going to have the basketball IQ or floor game to be a solid NBA player. Players who bounce around that much as young dudes these days just aren't going to be smart enough to be good and will fold at the first sign of adversity in their careers. There might be an exception here and there, but generally those dudes are so obscenely jump off the film talented that they'd get drafted if they had never played a single organized basketball game in their life. MarJon was NEVER anything remotely close to that as a talent. Horst just can't scout at all and straight up doesn't know what to look for with players who aren't already in the NBA. His picks are always guys with perceived upside from draft sites (but the film doesn't typically support that view point) or he just takes dudes who play good in a NCAA tournament game Just think it's blatantly obvious that scouting is the aspect of being a GM that Horst has literally no ability whatsoever in, he makes trades, knows the cap, negotiates with agents and players, etc. But in terms of evaluating non NBA players and how they potentially translate just think he offers literally nothing. Think you could use either pure random chance among the 10 BPA or just straight BPA on ESPN mock drafts and hit on more substantially picks than Horst has.

[old skool]

So, has there been any rumblings of us bringing PJ back?

Last season Tucker only appeared in 31 games. He wasn't out with injury. In 49 games he got a DNP-Coach's Decision.

This season he has been paid to stay away from his team.

When the playoffs start he will have been held out of 133 of 164 regular games over the past two regular seasons.

How many 40-year old role players make an impact in the playoffs after playing little or not at all for almost two years? I can't think of one.

[fan230]

I'll never get why a team in 'win now' mode desperately needing cheap contributors along with youth/athleticism when they occasionally got a 1st rd pick chose to use it on guys who were developmental high upside swings who would need at least a couple years of development, rather than projected higher floor with hopes of immediate contributions. Should've just been looking for role players with those picks

Thon, cough, over Sabonis.

I remember really hoping that the Bucks take Sabonis, and really hoping again that the Bucks take Jovic.



Now that one was on Hammond, Kidd, Lasry and not necessarily Horst. But that was our killer draft mistake of the past decade.

Would Sabonis have worked here given his defensive limitations? Don't know, but at worst he was one hell of a trade asset. Solid, solid player.

[fan230]

I'll never get why a team in 'win now' mode desperately needing cheap contributors along with youth/athleticism when they occasionally got a 1st rd pick chose to use it on guys who were developmental high upside swings who would need at least a couple years of development, rather than projected higher floor with hopes of immediate contributions. Should've just been looking for role players with those picks

Thon, cough, over Sabonis.


Now that one was on Hammond, Kidd, Lasry and not necessarily Horst. But that was our killer draft mistake of the past decade.

Would Sabonis have worked here given his defensive limitations? Don't know, but at worst he was one hell of a trade asset. Solid, solid player.

I remember really hoping that the Bucks take Sabonis, and really hoping again that the Bucks take Jovic.

[Ron Swanson]

Obviously Sabonis would have been a much better player but you can't convince me that it would have ever worked out here. We don't become the winningest organization in the league from 2018-2023 without Brook co-anchoring the defense that won us a championship. If Hammond had the foresight to pick Siakam though....

[fan230]

The two players I hope the Bucks can keep next season are Trent and Porter. Don’t know what our chances are though.

[KendallMarshall]

I'll never get why a team in 'win now' mode desperately needing cheap contributors along with youth/athleticism when they occasionally got a 1st rd pick chose to use it on guys who were developmental high upside swings who would need at least a couple years of development, rather than projected higher floor with hopes of immediate contributions. Should've just been looking for role players with those picks

Thon, cough, over Sabonis.


Now that one was on Hammond, Kidd, Lasry and not necessarily Horst. But that was our killer draft mistake of the past decade.

Would Sabonis have worked here given his defensive limitations? Don't know, but at worst he was one hell of a trade asset. Solid, solid player.

I remember really hoping that the Bucks take Sabonis, and really hoping again that the Bucks take Jovic.

I too, wanted jovic. The fact that he was available at our pick and we still picked bum-ass beauchamp...

[slos]

The two players I hope the Bucks can keep next season are Trent and Porter. Don’t know what our chances are though.

I think it’s 100% up to Horst since he will have access to the non-tax MLE and the BAE. I’m hopeful though they come back in a team friendly price.

My guess is that Porter just opts in to command a new shiny contract after one more season in his belt with a role in a winning team. And Trent takes the BAE with a player option and a promise that Bucks will take care of him once they get his Bird rights with a multiyear contract.

Pretty much what they have already done with Brook and Bobby. GTJ and KPJ can take a nice bag if they prove themselves next season.

[Frank Nova]

Something I’ve come back to over the past 12 hours is Kyle Kuzma. Dude played last night on a bum ankle and played well. This season could hinge on the difference of that vs the alternative which would’ve been if Khris Middleton twists an ankle, he’s likely out for the foreseeable future afterwards. No way does Khris tweak an ankle and play the next game, or even the next few. That is likely a huge outlier to what is currently happening with the uptick in team play. I’m not even trying to dump on Khris but that just seems like a given to me.

[tedbrogen]

Something I’ve come back to over the past 12 hours is Kyle Kuzma. Dude played last night on a bum ankle and played well. This season could hinge on the difference of that vs the alternative which would’ve been if Khris Middleton twists an ankle, he’s likely out for the foreseeable future afterwards. No way does Khris tweak an ankle and play the next game, or even the next few. That is likely a huge outlier to what is currently happening with the uptick in team play. I’m not even trying to dump on Khris but that just seems like a given to me.

Midds twisted his ankle last season and it ended with double ankle surgery. He did put on an epic performance against the Pacers in the first round with almost no help, so not trying to dog him either.

[raysbookclub]

Kinda loving Jericho Sims. Would be happy to see him back next year. He had back-to-back possessions of moderate dominance in the second quarter last night. He altered a shot near the rim, then outran the Hawks to the rim where he got the ball and did a rhythm drop dribble and dunked, then altered another shot at the rim, leading to a wide-open 3 that our guy missed.

[tedbrogen]

Kinda loving Jericho Sims. Would be happy to see him back next year. He had back-to-back possessions of moderate dominance in the second quarter last night. He altered a shot near the rim, then outran the Hawks to the rim where he got the ball and did a rhythm drop dribble and dunked, then altered another shot at the rim, leading to a wide-open 3 that our guy missed.

He’s very athletic, not as spazzy as Gadz, very good on the glass, switchable on D, and knows he should only take shots within three feet of the rim.

If they can retain KPJ to provide scoring punch off the bench and Brook comes back on a smaller deal, I’d be happy with him in his current role and they can let Bobby walk or S&T Bobby.

[Frank Nova]

Something I’ve come back to over the past 12 hours is Kyle Kuzma. Dude played last night on a bum ankle and played well. This season could hinge on the difference of that vs the alternative which would’ve been if Khris Middleton twists an ankle, he’s likely out for the foreseeable future afterwards. No way does Khris tweak an ankle and play the next game, or even the next few. That is likely a huge outlier to what is currently happening with the uptick in team play. I’m not even trying to dump on Khris but that just seems like a given to me.

Midds twisted his ankle last season and it ended with double ankle surgery. He did put on an epic performance against the Pacers in the first round with almost no help, so not trying to dog him either.

Absolutely, Khris is a legend and deserves his flowers. But his inability to stay healthy at this stage of his career and the way it has affected his play, it would likely be a huge hindrance on the rest of this season if Horst didn’t nut up and make the move he made. Kuzma is far from any sort of messiah but his skill set has clearly been a boost we’ve needed.

1st back to back road set we’ve won all season, I think we’re at least close to the point where we should all be agreeing this trade deadline was successful.

[pifhluk23]

Bobby & KPJ might be enough to actually let Dame & Giannis play low minutes next year.

[MickeyDavis]

Sims is just a guy. He is ok sometimes, bad other times. The "energy and effort" thing is great but also replaceable. He's a FA, I'd certainly look to upgrade that spot but if there's nothing out there for a similar price I guess I'd bring him back.

[tedbrogen]

Bobby & KPJ might be enough to actually let Dame & Giannis play low minutes next year.

Will be tough to keep all of Bobby, KPJ, and Brook while also staying below the second apron to stay flexible for midsession moves, no? Brook I could see signing for a lower average salary but Bobby is getting a large raise and KPJ will likely earn more as well.

It’s going to be really tough for them to pay Bobby when he plays the same position as the second best player in the planet. It’s a nice luxury for the regular season but doesn’t help in the postseason.

[AussieBuck]

At this point I think if a guy is a fringe rotation player somewhere in the NBA, he's probably an upgrade over most of the guys we've had over the Giannis era. We just keep bringing in 'duds' who happen to be much, much better than the alternatives. Let's go get another **** player off the scrap pile and they'll be in the rotation improving the team before you know it.

[Ron Swanson]

No argument that Sims is very much a replacement level dude, but him and KPJ are perfect examples of why this obsession with trading away our most valuable assets and players just for "youth and athleticism" was always short-sighted and misguided. These are the kind of players that are available every trade deadline and every offseason for scraps/free. Just imagine how even more screwed this team would be if they did one of those countless "Dame for some young, warm bodies" panic trades posited on this board instead of actually just getting some decent athletes/shooters for dirt cheap around him and Giannis. Thankfully the latter mind-set won out.