Paolo for…?

[three3d]

THE TRIANGLE OFFENSE would be beautiful with Franz and Paolo and Simons

After the Magic dump Caldwell-Pope, Harris, and Anthony for better shooters, the team will still be built around interior and mid-range games of the forwards. Thus: there must be innovation and creativity in the offense. You want to call it the triangle (which Suggs we be up for), fine.

Whatever comes next, as this will still be a very young team next year, it really MUST be a motion offense of some sort.

I still think the forward-to-forward PnR is the solution. Even if I am wrong, we can all agree: kill Heroball now.

AI Overview

In the triangle offense, a "pick and roll" element is often incorporated by having a player on the wing set a screen for the ball handler near the top of the key, allowing the ball handler to drive towards the basket while the screener rolls to the hoop, creating scoring opportunities based on the defensive reaction and creating open space for potential passes to other triangle positions depending on the defensive coverage.


PnR is an element to the triangle but the biggest thing with it is that NOBODY should be standing still. It’s a constant flow and movement of screening and cutting.

[AdamTheGreek]

Can we lock this thread?

Paolo and Franz are our stars.

[89Magicfan]

Can we lock this thread?

Paolo and Franz are our stars.

Agree! Lock this **** up.

[zaymon]

Paolo, his mom and his agent are a nice triangle offense on their own. It will only escalate. Doesnt look like decent character and winner mentality.
Forward/forward pnr is easly switchable i dont know what is the reason to run it ?
Its actually easy, we need a player to handle the ball and Paolo is not good without the ball. Sooner we make a move, better.
Booker makes a lot of sense.
Young less but still a lot more than Paolo.
Markannen doesnt solve our ball handling issues.

[Bergmaniac]

We won't consider trading him because the front office is risk averse and fans love PPG, but let's not pretend that talking about is a blasphemy. Yes, he put up very nice counting stats, but I care a lot more about impact stats and efficiency than raw PPG. And the fact is, in every season of his career so far we have been a lot better statistically when Paolo has not played and his scoring efficiency has never been good. So it's far from a no brainer that he should be untouchable and get the max if we are being rational. Yes, he is young, yes, the roster is flawed, but the real elite guys show their worth even in such circumstances.

[drsd]

THE TRIANGLE OFFENSE would be beautiful with Franz and Paolo and Simons

After the Magic dump Caldwell-Pope, Harris, and Anthony for better shooters, the team will still be built around interior and mid-range games of the forwards. Thus: there must be innovation and creativity in the offense. You want to call it the triangle (which Suggs we be up for), fine.

Whatever comes next, as this will still be a very young team next year, it really MUST be a motion offense of some sort.

I still think the forward-to-forward PnR is the solution. Even if I am wrong, we can all agree: kill Heroball now.

AI Overview

In the triangle offense, a "pick and roll" element is often incorporated by having a player on the wing set a screen for the ball handler near the top of the key, allowing the ball handler to drive towards the basket while the screener rolls to the hoop, creating scoring opportunities based on the defensive reaction and creating open space for potential passes to other triangle positions depending on the defensive coverage.


PnR is an element to the triangle but the biggest thing with it is that NOBODY should be standing still. It’s a constant flow and movement of screening and cutting.

The problem with the triangle is to-fold. i) it is exhausting. To be effective, all five players on the court need to be lean and fit. ii) it is intellectually difficult. Indeed, the two teams that succeeded running the triangle, the Bulls and the Lakers, has the best and second-best SGs of all time leading it. (one can assume that Jordan/Bryant win all their titles in a more conventional offense also; I would assume that).

For me the future of Orlando to be successful requires two 40% three-point shooters at the guard slots and an elite offensive rebounder at Center, to play off of the two forwards leading the on-ball. Double picks, back picks, motion and the PnR need to play prominent roles. Heroball must die. Now.

[three3d]

After the Magic dump Caldwell-Pope, Harris, and Anthony for better shooters, the team will still be built around interior and mid-range games of the forwards. Thus: there must be innovation and creativity in the offense. You want to call it the triangle (which Suggs we be up for), fine.

Whatever comes next, as this will still be a very young team next year, it really MUST be a motion offense of some sort.

I still think the forward-to-forward PnR is the solution. Even if I am wrong, we can all agree: kill Heroball now.

AI Overview

In the triangle offense, a "pick and roll" element is often incorporated by having a player on the wing set a screen for the ball handler near the top of the key, allowing the ball handler to drive towards the basket while the screener rolls to the hoop, creating scoring opportunities based on the defensive reaction and creating open space for potential passes to other triangle positions depending on the defensive coverage.


PnR is an element to the triangle but the biggest thing with it is that NOBODY should be standing still. It’s a constant flow and movement of screening and cutting.

The problem with the triangle is to-fold. i) it is exhausting. To be effective, all five players on the court need to be lean and fit. ii) it is intellectually difficult. Indeed, the two teams that succeeded running the triangle, the Bulls and the Lakers, has the best and second-best SGs of all time leading it. (one can assume that Jordan/Bryant win all their titles in a more conventional offense also; I would assume that).

For me the future of Orlando to be successful requires two 40% three-point shooters at the guard slots and an elite offensive rebounder at Center, to play off of the two forwards leading the on-ball. Double picks, back picks, motion and the PnR need to play prominent roles. Heroball must die. Now.

IMO Paolo and Franz should NEVER be on the same side of the court, it makes it easier for the defense to cover them. You can’t double team both guys if they have their own half of the court to operate in, vertically divide the court in half from under the basket to half quart. Theoretically, you have two strong players, one on each half of the court but naturally with ball movement one side is going to be weak on defense. Franz is good at back door cuts, unfortunately he and Moe have that natural connection and Moe is out. Paolo has really good vision so naturally he should be able to pick that back door cut up easily by Franz as soon as the defender makes adjustments. It’s just something so easy and we have the unique pieces to do it.

[Skybox]

Can we lock this thread?

Paolo and Franz are our stars.

I opened the thread with a very clear statement that I wouldn't trade Paolo...but it was just for a mental exercise. If the bulk of people here can't participate or skip it without getting emotional or pissy or wander way off the path...then close it. It's too hard to manage for the bulk of the posters...When 100 organizational reasons for Paolo to ask out finally break through - you can all blame me.

BTW...your podcast is awesome. Just found it and it's clearly the best one out there for Magic takes - probably because we agree on everything (so far) but I'll keep listening.

[three3d]

Can we lock this thread?

Paolo and Franz are our stars.

I opened the thread with a very clear statement that I wouldn't trade Paolo...but it was just for a mental exercise. If the bulk of people here can't participate or skip it without getting emotional or pissy or wander way off the path...then close it. It's too hard to manage for the bulk of the posters...When 100 organizational reasons for Paolo to ask out finally break through - you can all blame me.

BTW...your podcast is awesome. Just found it and it's clearly the best one out there for Magic takes - probably because we agree on everything (so far) but I'll keep listening.

I like the debate and also like Paolo, that said it’s a fair thing to think about given the return you’d get for Paolo and us approaching the apron.

I think Paolo would like to play closer to home if he moved. Portland is close to Seattle, his friends and family make the drive to see him so it fits. Portland also has the assets, whatever you want those assets to be they have them. Avdija is a must get no way around that. Now if you wanted to debate Scoot or Simons that’s exceptable, I’m all for Simons. Now if Portland has a better draft pick than us this year that is where this type of trade could get juicy. If you could swing Paolo, WCJ, AB, or Cole ( a combo of 3 players from us ) for Simons, Deni, + top 10 draft pick we could be looking at adding 3 new starters to our lineup next season. We would pick swap Portland one of our first round picks for their more favorable first round pick.

[Skybox]

Can we lock this thread?

Paolo and Franz are our stars.

I opened the thread with a very clear statement that I wouldn't trade Paolo...but it was just for a mental exercise. If the bulk of people here can't participate or skip it without getting emotional or pissy or wander way off the path...then close it. It's too hard to manage for the bulk of the posters...When 100 organizational reasons for Paolo to ask out finally break through - you can all blame me.

BTW...your podcast is awesome. Just found it and it's clearly the best one out there for Magic takes - probably because we agree on everything (so far) but I'll keep listening.

I like the debate and also like Paolo, that said it’s a fair thing to think about given the return you’d get for Paolo and us approaching the apron.

I think Paolo would like to play closer to home if he moved. Portland is close to Seattle, his friends and family make the drive to see him so it fits. Portland also has the assets, whatever you want those assets to be they have them. Avdija is a must get no way around that. Now if you wanted to debate Scoot or Simons that’s exceptable, I’m all for Simons. Now if Portland has a better draft pick than us this year that is where this type of trade could get juicy. If you could swing Paolo, WCJ, AB, or Cole ( a combo of 3 players from us ) for Simons, Deni, + top 10 draft pick we could be looking at adding 3 new starters to our lineup next season. We would pick swap Portland one of our first round picks for their more favorable first round pick.

I'm quoting you, but not directing this at you, Three3D

Another thing posters here have a hard time comprehending is that a trade suggestion (involving any player) is not the same as "I hate this player. He sucks. We must get rid of him"...that's childishly illogical - especially when "he sucks" is followed by all of the great things you want back.

If I dare to contemplate a Paolo or Suggs trade, it's because Weltman has created such a s**tshow of a roster that ORL might be forced to accept a setback to undo some of the damage. If I'm posting a Paolo trade to POR (for example)...the basis of it would be " I want everything I like AND I'm attaching other things I don't want"...so, it'd have to be a roster makeover powered by Paolo's immense value. I've said it before, there's very few, if any, single players that I'd even consider moving Paolo straight up for, regardless of current salary. He's still SOO young and SO good and shows plenty of evidence that he's much much more than just a formidable iso-scorer...just because he's forced to play like Julius Randle in this current mess, doesn't mean that's all he is.

Having said that - I'm not trading Paolo unless Luka wants out of LAL to be with his buddy Mose or Ant Edwards hates the cold and loves Disneyworld

[Orlando Dawg]

No team can carry three max players in the new CBA!

It's not a rule. Its that after two MLE players for the starters, that means ten bench players at league min salary.
For example, the team would not be able to afford rookies. It would be that bad.

It still looks like the Magic can draft and sign their draft picks



NBA First Apron Penalties

Teams can only acquire sign-and-trade players if they move them below the apron.
Teams who execute a trade must match salaries within 110% of the outgoing obligation. Compare this to teams in good standing, which have a broader match window at 125%.
Teams cannot sign any players waived during the regular season if their salary is greater than the midlevel exception.
NBA Second Apron Penalties

Teams do not have level to the taxpayer midlevel exception.
Teams cannot use trade exceptions created when combining the salaries of multiple players.
Teams cannot use trade exceptions from any prior year.
Teams lose the ability to trade first-round picks that are seven years in the future.
If teams remain in the second apron for any three years in a five-year period, their upcoming first-round draft pick is automatically moved to the end of the first round.

[drsd]

I opened the thread with a very clear statement that I wouldn't trade Paolo...but it was just for a mental exercise.

One thing I think this highlights, is that many here now value F-Wagner over Banchero. I know I do.

[Skybox]

I opened the thread with a very clear statement that I wouldn't trade Paolo...but it was just for a mental exercise.

One thing I think this highlights, is that many here now value F-Wagner over Banchero. I know I do.

They're both awesome, All-Star level players and seem like great guys. Paolo has a simmering ferocity, Franz with an easy calm about him, both look similar on the box score, but get there very differently...if anybody can't see that, I don't know what to tell them. I don't care to get into why one is better, when they both have advantages in different categories/styles/scenarios...we're extremely fortunate to have them both...this team would be hopeless with just one or the other, imo.

As long as we have them both, it's a matter of working around them - which seems doable. I have high hopes that a few relatively small, but significant changes (personnel, philosophy, coaching staff, FO, game planning...?) will propel ORL forward quickly. Just one or the other would signal, imo, a much harder road ahead. Suggs as the distant but way ahead of the rest of the pack third is certainly an X-factor that could tip the scales one way or another.

GETTING two young stars is the hardest part. That's done ...now, we're getting to the point of f**king that up, blowing it up, or moving forward - depending on what the FO does.

[drsd]

I opened the thread with a very clear statement that I wouldn't trade Paolo...but it was just for a mental exercise.

One thing I think this highlights, is that many here now value F-Wagner over Banchero. I know I do.

They're both awesome, All-Star level players and seem like great guys. Paolo has a simmering ferocity, Franz with an easy calm about him, both look similar on the box score, but get there very differently...if anybody can't see that, I don't know what to tell them. I don't care to get into why one is better, when they both have advantages in different categories/styles/scenarios...we're extremely fortunate to have them both...this team would be hopeless with just one or the other, imo.

As long as we have them both, it's a matter of working around them - which seems doable. I have high hopes that a few relatively small, but significant changes (personnel, philosophy, coaching staff, FO, game planning...?) will propel ORL forward quickly. Just one or the other would signal, imo, a much harder road ahead. Suggs as the distant but way ahead of the rest of the pack third is certainly an X-factor that could tip the scales one way or another.

GETTING two young stars is the hardest part. That's done ...now, we're getting to the point of f**king that up, blowing it up, or moving forward - depending on what the FO does.

I am 100% apposed to trading either player; management is certainly more opposed than I. But if there is a ranked 1A and 1B, whom do you have higher currently? I bet it's F-Wagner. Right?

[Skybox]

One thing I think this highlights, is that many here now value F-Wagner over Banchero. I know I do.

They're both awesome, All-Star level players and seem like great guys. Paolo has a simmering ferocity, Franz with an easy calm about him, both look similar on the box score, but get there very differently...if anybody can't see that, I don't know what to tell them. I don't care to get into why one is better, when they both have advantages in different categories/styles/scenarios...we're extremely fortunate to have them both...this team would be hopeless with just one or the other, imo.

As long as we have them both, it's a matter of working around them - which seems doable. I have high hopes that a few relatively small, but significant changes (personnel, philosophy, coaching staff, FO, game planning...?) will propel ORL forward quickly. Just one or the other would signal, imo, a much harder road ahead. Suggs as the distant but way ahead of the rest of the pack third is certainly an X-factor that could tip the scales one way or another.

GETTING two young stars is the hardest part. That's done ...now, we're getting to the point of f**king that up, blowing it up, or moving forward - depending on what the FO does.

I am 100% apposed to trading either player; management is certainly more opposed than I. But if there is a ranked 1A and 1B, whom do you have higher currently? I bet it's F-Wagner. Right?

I dont' want to play that game, but I just stated elsewhere that I think Paolo's ceiling is higher. They're both stars in the making, but Paolo's physicality is playoff-star material. Drawing fouls and punishing defenders is not something Franz can do to the same degree. Franz is better all-around, but I think he's closer to his ceiling. THEY are both the cornerstones of this team, imo. Suggs is #3, but so far beneath the first two that it's a different conversation.

[drsd]

Suggs is #3, but so far beneath the first two that it's a different conversation.

FOr me, Suggs is tradeable if a better fit can be found next to F-Wagner and Banchro.

But I agree that this team will ride these three in given roster formations over the next 3-years. Then .... we will see. If there isn;t a championship contender by 2028, I would assume that a trade would then happen.

[JoshuaPotter]

Paolo ceiling is light years higher. It will be a question for all-time if he never makes it. He literally has a football frame with amazing athleticism. If we can surround him with the right team and he becomes even a 0.2 net positive on defense then who knows. There are tons of elements to his game he needs to work on though to get there. But that oh so pretty floor.

Franz - is legitimately the better player today. But hey Pippen was probably one of the best players never given enough credit as no 2. The fact that Franz can and did step when injuries mounted imho proves it.

Suggs is tradable, not easily, but still tradable. The challenge is especially last year he proved that he is our defensive anchor and volume 3pt shooter. Something that nobody can do on our roster apparently.

[JoshuaPotter]

If we could get Paolo + Franz to have the same chemistry on court as Mo + Franz then our offense would be sick.

[MasterGMer]

TBH, I like Paolo and he has played better in recent games and shot more efficient.

I also do not know if Jeff Weltman will actually pull the trigger. As we all know, he is very conservative.

Unless it is a star or super star in return, otherwise, I am not entertaining any offer for Paolo.

Dude is just 22 years old and has already been regarded as the up and comer, potential super star.

And it won't make any sense to justify that action. Personal opinion

[The Effect]

Anfernee Simons, Deni Avdija and 2025 first round pick swap if Portland has a higher first round pick than us.

Their GM would say yes faster than Pelinka did when nico collins asked about AD for Luka