Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[BigO]

I hope all the positivity regarding Kuzma and KPJ continue after this 2 week gauntlet coming up. Everything KPJ and Kuz does is seen with rose colored glasses right now.

There is no doubt the two of them bring athleticism and in the case of KPJ, high end bball skills. It's just that both of them have an extensive record with other teams that is consistent and are red flags (and I don't mean off court stuff with KPJ).

[MickeyDavis]

I hope all the positivity regarding Kuzma and KPJ continue after this 2 week gauntlet coming up. Everything KPJ and Kuz does is seen with rose colored glasses right now.

There is no doubt the two of them bring athleticism and in the case of KPJ, high end bball skills. It's just that both of them have an extensive record with other teams that is consistent and are red flags (and I don't mean off court stuff with KPJ).

There will be bad games and bad losses. It's inevitable. And the board will turn on them and the team. It's inevitable.

[jimmybones]

I'm not sure he's ever had the opportunity to develop winning chemistry on his prior teams. The passing will improve. He is a very willing passer and what I've been noticing is he is expecting his teammate to anticipate the next move along with him, but guys aren't prepared for it. Sometimes he makes the right pass, but nobody is there.

Of course there is room to improve on his decision making. Just wanted to point out that chemistry is a two-way street. He definitely still needs to learn where his teammates like to be positioned.

He appears to be developing very good chemistry with Sims. I hope to see him with the opportunity to develop that with Giannis, who hasn't really had a playmaker like KPJ beside him before.

Fantastic point. He is a bit unorthodox as well so it should be completely understandable that a chemistry curve might be there compared to guys who play more by the book, so to say.

Hopefully his quirky creativity is contagious and the chemistry that needs to be built by his teammates actually happens because I think you're spot on that he sees things in a creative way that his teammates may not read as quickly.

This conversation is making me want to see him paired with Giannis even more to develop that chemistry. KPJ's ability to snake his way through the middle of the floor paired with an athletic freak like Giannis cutting towards the rim. More of that, please.

[drone3]

I'm not sure he's ever had the opportunity to develop winning chemistry on his prior teams. The passing will improve. He is a very willing passer and what I've been noticing is he is expecting his teammate to anticipate the next move along with him, but guys aren't prepared for it. Sometimes he makes the right pass, but nobody is there.

Of course there is room to improve on his decision making. Just wanted to point out that chemistry is a two-way street. He definitely still needs to learn where his teammates like to be positioned.

He appears to be developing very good chemistry with Sims. I hope to see him with the opportunity to develop that with Giannis, who hasn't really had a playmaker like KPJ beside him before.

Fantastic point. He is a bit unorthodox as well so it should be completely understandable that a chemistry curve might be there compared to guys who play more by the book, so to say.

Hopefully his quirky creativity is contagious and the chemistry that needs to be built by his teammates actually happens because I think you're spot on that he sees things in a creative way that his teammates may not read as quickly.

This conversation is making me want to see him paired with Giannis even more to develop that chemistry. KPJ's ability to snake his way through the middle of the floor paired with an athletic freak like Giannis cutting towards the rim. More of that, please.

His creativity also leads to turnovers but majority of guys in the Harden archetype are similar. The paint is awesome when it hits the canvas

[jute2003]

I dont think all of kpj's turnovers are passing issues. I think a decent chunk is him just being a little reckless w his handle

That's what I see. He gets sloppy and also tries risky **** too often. I can imagine coaches hating that part of him

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

kpj is a solid bench guy who can basically..... run and jump and dribble and do the hesi's....initiate some offense when it breaks down.... and especially d up on ball and get in passing lanes. he seems to have good timing and instincts defensively.

but i think were just so excited because of what weve had that were overrating him a bit. as a starter lets face it...hed be a mess.

the good news is hes cheap and seems to be buying in and he still has some upside on the floor. i'll be shocked if he opts out considering what we just traded for him

[Jez2983]

RealgmGM bucks board: we need a bench unit microwave guy

Also Realgm Bucks board: but his usage is too high!

Future Realgm Bucks board when Bobby comes back: KPJ needs the ball in his hands more.

Also KPJ has weird-shaped thumbs.

[MickeyDavis]

run and jump and dribble and do the hesi's....initiate some offense when it breaks down.... and especially d up on ball and get in passing lanes. he seems to have good timing and instincts defensively.

He's all that and he's overrated?

[midranger]

KPJ strikes me as a guy who can either put up monster stats as a top two option of a tanking team or be a really useful contributor to a winning team in a more limited role, likely coming off the bench.

There’s been a lot of guys like that over the years. Like Clippers Jamal Crawford or Dallas Jet Terry.

[drone3]

Bud had our team humming for a while there but gotta admit it was boring and methodical. Much prefer the style we are playing now.

Does Doc get any cred for that? or is it just the young blood we brought in... creativity and D of Kuz, KPJ, Sims ?

[paulpressey25]

There will be bad games and bad losses. It's inevitable. And the board will turn on them and the team. It's inevitable.

Last ten games have been seashells and balloons. It’s been great stuff. But yes, we’re Bucks fans. We know this can shift on a dime on us.

BTW - Marquette went 49-1 in the 50 games Jim Chones appeared in.

[tedbrogen]

On the comparisons of KPJ and Bobby as high usage bench guys, personally I prefer the KPJ archetype.

A high usage bench guy who generates his offense by getting into the lane and putting pressure on the D is much preferable to a guy who does post ups then settles without putting any stress on the D. At least when the penetrating guard is forced to or decides to pass, he is potentially generating open looks for teammates. The post up guy who doesn’t get doubled is freezing everyone else out and when he passes, he’s passing grenades to guys who are covered.

That’s before getting into KPJ being a good defender which is actually a rare skill for a bench volume scorer.

And now that Kuz and Jericho are here, the need for Bobby’s rebounding is greatly reduced. The thing Bobby offers the current roster is a floor spacing big, but that only works if he’s willing to mainly shoot threes, moves the ball immediately if not open, doesn’t need to kill the offense with post ups, and they play zone to hide the fact he’s not switchable and can’t protect the rim.

If they want floor spacing big, play Brook. If they want full switch and rim running, play Jericho. If they want a tall guy next to Giannis for a quicker lineup, play Kuz. Not sure the situation where you’d actively choose Bobby, especially when he’ll be insanely rusty after sitting out 25 games and only getting three or four games to get back in game shape and develop chemistry with the new guys before the playoffs.

[Bernman]

On the comparisons of KPJ and Bobby as high usage bench guys, personally I prefer the KPJ archetype.

A high usage bench guy who generates his offense by getting into the lane and putting pressure on the D is much preferable to a guy who does post ups then settles without putting any stress on the D. At least when the penetrating guard is forced to or decides to pass, he is potentially generating open looks for teammates. The post up guy who doesn’t get doubled is freezing everyone else out and when he passes, he’s passing grenades to guys who are covered.

That’s before getting into KPJ being a good defender which is actually a rare skill for a bench volume scorer.

And now that Kuz and Jericho are here, the need for Bobby’s rebounding is greatly reduced. The thing Bobby offers the current roster is a floor spacing big, but that only works if he’s willing to mainly shoot threes, moves the ball immediately if not open, doesn’t need to kill the offense with post ups, and they play zone to hide the fact he’s not switchable and can’t protect the rim.

If they want floor spacing big, play Brook. If they want full switch and rim running, play Jericho. If they want a tall guy next to Giannis for a quicker lineup, play Kuz. Not sure the situation where you’d actively choose Bobby, especially when he’ll be insanely rusty after sitting out 25 games and only getting three or four games to get back in game shape and develop chemistry with the new guys before the playoffs.

The niche he'll need to fill is being primarily a 3-pt shooter, & Wilt not wilt in the playoffs. He can theoretically do that, unlike Sims. And he can switch on picks, unlike Brook. The Bucks would have to commit to that scheme when Bobby's on the floor.

You're right if he doesn't change his approach, he'll either play significantly less or worse.

[tedbrogen]

Bobby can switch on picks in the same sense that technically any player can switch on picks. It simply leads to horrible mismatches because he’s too slow to cover guards and wings while also offering no ability to use his size to alter shots.

[Bernman]

Bobby can switch on picks in the same sense that technically any player can switch on picks. It simply leads to horrible mismatches because he’s too slow to cover guards and wings while also offering no ability to use his size to alter shots.

I don't agree. He stays in contact w/ players, even guards, and alters their shots a good % of the time. His weaknesses are when you have him make a choice who to cover & of course protecting the rim.

[-Jragon-]

KPJ strikes me as a guy who can either put up monster stats as a top two option of a tanking team or be a really useful contributor to a winning team in a more limited role, likely coming off the bench.

There’s been a lot of guys like that over the years. Like Clippers Jamal Crawford or Dallas Jet Terry.

You're missing a key difference... those coaches wanted to have stronger defense in the game to start and then bring in the softer defending offense later vs the backups. By sitting KPJ in favor of (pick a diff starter), you're sitting the stronger defender ---- that also does more on offense. We can stagger him with Dame while also playing them together stretches.

[-Jragon-]

Bobby can switch on picks in the same sense that technically any player can switch on picks. It simply leads to horrible mismatches because he’s too slow to cover guards and wings while also offering no ability to use his size to alter shots.

I don't agree. He stays in contact w/ players, even guards, and alters their shots a good % of the time. His weaknesses are when you have him make a choice who to cover & of course protecting the rim.

That's a good point... but also, in being able to stay with the drive pretty well with his slow feet, he has to stay back far leaves them too much room to catch/shoot (old Bud habit of let them have the 3 but stop the drive).. he's often nowhere near the 3 point shooter when they get the ball and that's a huge problem if he wants to just shoot 46% (or whatever) on post up 2s whilst giving up wide open 3s -- we keep losing leads when he played.

[tedbrogen]

Bobby getting switched onto or trying to guard anyone on the Cavs, Knicks, or Celtics is a recipe for disaster. There’s a reason they were playing a ton of zone with Bobby before he “accidentally” took a banned substance.

[slos]

Do we push for 3rd seed? Knicks are just 3.5 wins away, they just lost Brunson in the first game of a tough road trip and we play them at home.

I tend to prefer Celtics in the 2nd round. Jrue has lost a step this season and they seem like a team in big trouble if just one of their Top 7-8 guys gets hurt. On the other hand Cavs are much deeper and look like a hungry team in the rise.

I’m not saying that Doc needs to start playing Dame/Giannis 40ish minutes or risk with injuries to get it done. But it’s definitely something to consider moving forward. Pistons over Indiana in the first round should be a side bonus.

On top of that I can see a fresh Cavs team in the second round after crushing Atlanta and a bit banged Celtics team after some tough games with Miami.

Thoughts?

[chonestown]

There will be bad games and bad losses. It's inevitable. And the board will turn on them and the team. It's inevitable.

Last ten games have been seashells and balloons. It’s been great stuff. But yes, we’re Bucks fans. We know this can shift on a dime on us.

BTW - Marquette went 49-1 in the 50 games Jim Chones appeared in.

Chones mentioned.imo