2024-2025 Regular Season Game 64: Chicago Bulls (24-38) at Orlando Magic (29-34) - 7pm

[Fortune Teller]

So the reason for being in position to draft Paolo, Franz is because we sucked so much that we were in the pointy end of the lottery. The cornerstones of those teams that were horrid were the like of WCJ and Cole. How is it even possible that 3 and 4 years into Paolo and Franz careers were still have Cole and WCJ in starting lineup? Not only are they still here hindering winning basketball, our **** incompetent front office EXTENDED THEM BOTH!!!! How do we keep waking up each day with Weltman still employed

I can't understand why everyone doesn't see it this way. Jeff and his supporters in the "but injuries" crowd refuse to recognize that injuries happen to every team, and this team more than others, so you need to have real depth. You can't have a core of 12 players that you just keep recycling year after year for the sake of continuity and internal development without any consideration for whether they're actually good or not. The third-best player on the team being out should not make the Magic the worst team in the NBA unless you have serous roster problems. As in, every other player not named Paolo or Franz is bottom-of-the-league bad at their position.

[cedric76]

This one wasn't on the players, it was on coach mose.

Decided to go small after their 2 C fouled out, after that we got killed on the glass.

I still don't get his lineups, it seems that he doesn't know which players match well together.

And I still don't understand why he doesn't have a shorter leash on Cole, he scores 2 pts and give up 4 on the other end.

I wish we had white or huerter instead of Cole

[Skybox]

I also suspect there are some Goga issues with someone, some Cole issues as well, and maybe even some KCP issues.

I agree with the Goga part, just look at his stats right before Paolo came back. Goga was playing really good, one game after Paolo’s return is the game Goga went nuts on his way to the locker room trying to rip his jersey. Then somehow Goga wound up with a mysterious concussion right after that. Purely speculation but if you’re mad enough to try ripping your jersey you’d also be mad enough to bang your head on a wall perhaps. WCJ is Paolo’s boy, there is probably a lot going in we don’t see.

Go get Mark Williams then and dig up AJ Griffin too

[eyriq]

Weltman’s burner

Weltman drafted Paolo, Franz, and Suggs, hired Mosley, and has stuck to his guns on organic development. I love those decisions.

The combination of those decisions has led to +12 and +13 win seasons and a top three defense.

This year there's been a major setback due to injuries. Injuries are the root cause, there's no other way around that. We're second in the NBA in terms of wins lost due to injury, and that doesn't take into account the reduced quality of play as injured players return from injury, or the chemistry setbacks that occur due to in-season discontinuity.

I wanted him to stay dedicated to the organic growth path and develop Anthony Black. Anthony Black is in the top three in minutes played, I couldn't be happier with the opportunities he's gotten.

Losing doesn't feel good, I'm as angry about it as anyone really. But if I'm honest with myself these results are from Weltman doing things I agree with.

Does he need to retool his plan? Yes absolutely. I don't agree with many of the moves he's made at the margins. I'm on the record on those points. I just don't think they mean much in the big picture. I think hiring the right coach and drafting our franchise players and building out our core is more important than identifying role players at this stage.

[three3d]

Weltman’s burner

Weltman drafted Paolo, Franz, and Suggs, hired Mosley, and has stuck to his guns on organic development. I love those decisions.

The combination of those decisions has led to +12 and +13 win seasons and a top three defense.

This year there's been a major setback due to injuries. Injuries are the root cause, there's no other way around that. We're second in the NBA in terms of wins lost due to injury, and that doesn't take into account the reduced quality of play as injured players return from injury, or the chemistry setbacks that occur due to in-season discontinuity.

I wanted him to stay dedicated to the organic growth path and develop Anthony Black. Anthony Black is in the top three in minutes played, I couldn't be happier with the opportunities he's gotten.

Losing doesn't feel good, I'm as angry about it as anyone really. But if I'm honest with myself these results are from Weltman doing things I agree with.

Does he need to retool his plan? Yes absolutely. I don't agree with many of the moves he's made at the margins. I'm on the record on those points. I just don't think they mean much in the big picture. I think hiring the right coach and drafting our franchise players and building out our core is more important than identifying role players at this stage.

To be honest, last season was the anomaly. We’ve been HORRIBLE way more than we’ve been good. It looks like last season was a fluke instead of us being on the rise. These two seasons have been polar opposites, I guess we have to call a spade a spade.

[eyriq]

Weltman’s burner

Weltman drafted Paolo, Franz, and Suggs, hired Mosley, and has stuck to his guns on organic development. I love those decisions.

The combination of those decisions has led to +12 and +13 win seasons and a top three defense.

This year there's been a major setback due to injuries. Injuries are the root cause, there's no other way around that. We're second in the NBA in terms of wins lost due to injury, and that doesn't take into account the reduced quality of play as injured players return from injury, or the chemistry setbacks that occur due to in-season discontinuity.

I wanted him to stay dedicated to the organic growth path and develop Anthony Black. Anthony Black is in the top three in minutes played, I couldn't be happier with the opportunities he's gotten.

Losing doesn't feel good, I'm as angry about it as anyone really. But if I'm honest with myself these results are from Weltman doing things I agree with.

Does he need to retool his plan? Yes absolutely. I don't agree with many of the moves he's made at the margins. I'm on the record on those points. I just don't think they mean much in the big picture. I think hiring the right coach and drafting our franchise players and building out our core is more important than identifying role players at this stage.

To be honest, last season was the anomaly. We’ve been HORRIBLE way more than we’ve been good. It looks like last season was a fluke instead of us being on the rise. These two seasons have been polar opposites, I guess we have to call a spade a spade.

If you stack the two seasons side by side and pick the healthy season as the fluke vs the injury riddled season that says a lot.

[three3d]

Weltman drafted Paolo, Franz, and Suggs, hired Mosley, and has stuck to his guns on organic development. I love those decisions.

The combination of those decisions has led to +12 and +13 win seasons and a top three defense.

This year there's been a major setback due to injuries. Injuries are the root cause, there's no other way around that. We're second in the NBA in terms of wins lost due to injury, and that doesn't take into account the reduced quality of play as injured players return from injury, or the chemistry setbacks that occur due to in-season discontinuity.

I wanted him to stay dedicated to the organic growth path and develop Anthony Black. Anthony Black is in the top three in minutes played, I couldn't be happier with the opportunities he's gotten.

Losing doesn't feel good, I'm as angry about it as anyone really. But if I'm honest with myself these results are from Weltman doing things I agree with.

Does he need to retool his plan? Yes absolutely. I don't agree with many of the moves he's made at the margins. I'm on the record on those points. I just don't think they mean much in the big picture. I think hiring the right coach and drafting our franchise players and building out our core is more important than identifying role players at this stage.

To be honest, last season was the anomaly. We’ve been HORRIBLE way more than we’ve been good. It looks like last season was a fluke instead of us being on the rise. These two seasons have been polar opposites, I guess we have to call a spade a spade.

If you stack the two seasons side by side and pick the healthy season as the fluke vs the injury riddled season that says a lot.

Go ahead and use your argument against yourself and look at the east injuries last year for the other teams. I’ll be right here waiting for you to come back with more excuses.

[eyriq]

Go ahead and use your argument against yourself and look at the east injuries last year for the other teams. I’ll be right here waiting for you to come back with more excuses.

Sixers, Knicks, and Bucks all faced injuries last season. Sixers and Bucks have injuries this season as well, while the Knicks are healthier.

I'm not sure what you think I'm supposed to learn from the comparison.

Picking last season's healthy magic team as the anomaly is just hating at the highest order.

[Knightro]

This year there's been a major setback due to injuries. Injuries are the root cause, there's no other way around that.

This is a very dangerous thing to assume.

[pepe1991]

Weltman drafted Paolo, Franz, and Suggs, hired Mosley, and has stuck to his guns on organic development. I love those decisions.

The combination of those decisions has led to +12 and +13 win seasons and a top three defense.

This year there's been a major setback due to injuries. Injuries are the root cause, there's no other way around that. We're second in the NBA in terms of wins lost due to injury, and that doesn't take into account the reduced quality of play as injured players return from injury, or the chemistry setbacks that occur due to in-season discontinuity.

I wanted him to stay dedicated to the organic growth path and develop Anthony Black. Anthony Black is in the top three in minutes played, I couldn't be happier with the opportunities he's gotten.

Losing doesn't feel good, I'm as angry about it as anyone really. But if I'm honest with myself these results are from Weltman doing things I agree with.

Does he need to retool his plan? Yes absolutely. I don't agree with many of the moves he's made at the margins. I'm on the record on those points. I just don't think they mean much in the big picture. I think hiring the right coach and drafting our franchise players and building out our core is more important than identifying role players at this stage.

To be honest, last season was the anomaly. We’ve been HORRIBLE way more than we’ve been good. It looks like last season was a fluke instead of us being on the rise. These two seasons have been polar opposites, I guess we have to call a spade a spade.

If you stack the two seasons side by side and pick the healthy season as the fluke vs the injury riddled season that says a lot.

Oh give me a break.
Two past months we have 1 starter out and 1 bench scorer out.

IN mean time we are losing borderline rigged games ( Raptors game, 5 rotation players out, including all star, starter) , they take out starting 5 for past 8 min and we still fumble game.
Or Bulls game ( 4 key rotation players out AFTER they made lose-now move at deadline) and we lose that one too.

We were healthiest team last year but there is one other key factor that you simply won't admit.

Money.

2023-24 had one thing in common that current year does not have.

Franz- playing for extension
Suggs- playing for extension ( only health year in his career to a point)
Isaac- playing for extension
Carter- eventually playing for extension
Goga - playing for extension
Harris - playing for extension
Mortiz- playing for extension
Fultz- plaiyng for extension ( fail)

Those guys went balls deep because money is powerful motivator. This year there is no edge to anybody because they are all fat and happy ( figuratively) .

on top of that, East was flat out wracked by injuries. Regardless, last year Magic were 0,5 games away from 9th spot, despite winning 47 games.

I already explained why 47 wins last year ment less last year than usual. By beating teams below .400 win rate, Magic secured 24 wins in 28 games, meaning they were 23-31 vs competitive teams.

This year there are only 3 teams with sub .400 win rate= Magic winning much less than last year.

Just like Knicks can't beat contenders, we can't beat good ( winning ) teams.

Magic were never true "deep playoff contender"; not last year, not this year. Why? 19-28 vs winning teams this year. 8-22 vs teams with positive record this year.

It is what it is. Roster without ballhandlers and no high end- quality bigs with two forwards pretending to be playmakers was fundamentally flawed from start.
Jeff Weltman just isn't person capable of building winning rosters. 8 years, 6 losing seasons. And counting. 3 first round exits. 4 times missing playoffs.

In short . why are we worst than last year? Because we meet teams like Wizards and Hornets only for 8 games, where last year there were 16 such games, vs competition that is delux G league level.

[eyriq]

This year there's been a major setback due to injuries. Injuries are the root cause, there's no other way around that.

This is a very dangerous thing to assume.

Personally I think it’s the only rational conclusion.

[Vampirate]

Sacramento Kings of the east...

This is coming from a Raptors fan but not even close.

1. Short term your season was a let down but long term the injury of Paolo earlier that made Franz have to step up was likely a blessing in disguise.

2. I'd take Paolo and especially Franz over Fox (who's a small guard) and Sabonis (who doesn't have a good track record in the post season)

I have no idea on the moves to make, but just having Franz gives you an edge.

Your guys biggest issue imo is while all 3 of Suggs, Paolo and Franz are great in their own right, all 3 of them shoot 30% from 3 and take over 50% of the 3 point shots.

If either Franz or Paolo get a three point shot (Franz was a 35% three point shooter his first 2 years) then you truly got something), still, not a bad spot to be in long term.

[pepe1991]

This year there's been a major setback due to injuries. Injuries are the root cause, there's no other way around that.

This is a very dangerous thing to assume.

That is pretty much luxury tax + first apron claim.

[BadMofoPimp]

Imagine being a Philly fan. All they really lost was Embiid and exchanged Tobias for PG. Injuries do make a difference.

[eyriq]

To be honest, last season was the anomaly. We’ve been HORRIBLE way more than we’ve been good. It looks like last season was a fluke instead of us being on the rise. These two seasons have been polar opposites, I guess we have to call a spade a spade.

If you stack the two seasons side by side and pick the healthy season as the fluke vs the injury riddled season that says a lot.

Oh give me a break.
Two past months we have 1 starter out and 1 bench scorer out.

IN mean time we are losing borderline rigged games ( Raptors game, 5 rotation players out, including all star, starter) , they take out starting 5 for past 8 min and we still fumble game.
Or Bulls game ( 4 key rotation players out AFTER they made lose-now move at deadline) and we lose that one too.

We were healthiest team last year but there is one other key factor that you simply won't admit.

Money.

2023-24 had one thing in common that current year does not have.

Franz- playing for extension
Suggs- playing for extension ( only health year in his career to a point)
Isaac- playing for extension
Carter- eventually playing for extension
Goga - playing for extension
Harris - playing for extension
Mortiz- playing for extension
Fultz- plaiyng for extension ( fail)

Those guys went balls deep because money is powerful motivator. This year there is no edge to anybody because they are all fat and happy ( figuratively) .

on top of that, East was flat out wracked by injuries. Regardless, last year Magic were 0,5 games away from 9th spot, despite winning 47 games.

I already explained why 47 wins last year ment less last year than usual. By beating teams below .400 win rate, Magic secured 24 wins in 28 games, meaning they were 23-31 vs competitive teams.

This year there are only 3 teams with sub .400 win rate= Magic winning much less than last year.

Just like Knicks can't beat contenders, we can't beat good ( winning ) teams.

Magic were never true "deep playoff contender"; not last year, not this year. Why? 19-28 vs winning teams this year. 8-22 vs teams with positive record this year.

It is what it is. Roster without ballhandlers and no high end- quality bigs with two forwards pretending to be playmakers was fundamentally flawed from start.
Jeff Weltman just isn't person capable of building winning rosters. 8 years, 6 losing seasons. And counting. 3 first round exits. 4 times missing playoffs.

In short . why are we worst than last year? Because we meet teams like Wizards and Hornets only for 8 games, where last year there were 16 such games, vs competition that is delux G league level.

Hmm I love this. The money motivator is a big difference between seasons. Great analysis.

[pepe1991]

If you stack the two seasons side by side and pick the healthy season as the fluke vs the injury riddled season that says a lot.

Oh give me a break.
Two past months we have 1 starter out and 1 bench scorer out.

IN mean time we are losing borderline rigged games ( Raptors game, 5 rotation players out, including all star, starter) , they take out starting 5 for past 8 min and we still fumble game.
Or Bulls game ( 4 key rotation players out AFTER they made lose-now move at deadline) and we lose that one too.

We were healthiest team last year but there is one other key factor that you simply won't admit.

Money.

2023-24 had one thing in common that current year does not have.

Franz- playing for extension
Suggs- playing for extension ( only health year in his career to a point)
Isaac- playing for extension
Carter- eventually playing for extension
Goga - playing for extension
Harris - playing for extension
Mortiz- playing for extension
Fultz- plaiyng for extension ( fail)

Those guys went balls deep because money is powerful motivator. This year there is no edge to anybody because they are all fat and happy ( figuratively) .

on top of that, East was flat out wracked by injuries. Regardless, last year Magic were 0,5 games away from 9th spot, despite winning 47 games.

I already explained why 47 wins last year ment less last year than usual. By beating teams below .400 win rate, Magic secured 24 wins in 28 games, meaning they were 23-31 vs competitive teams.

This year there are only 3 teams with sub .400 win rate= Magic winning much less than last year.

Just like Knicks can't beat contenders, we can't beat good ( winning ) teams.

Magic were never true "deep playoff contender"; not last year, not this year. Why? 19-28 vs winning teams this year. 8-22 vs teams with positive record this year.

It is what it is. Roster without ballhandlers and no high end- quality bigs with two forwards pretending to be playmakers was fundamentally flawed from start.
Jeff Weltman just isn't person capable of building winning rosters. 8 years, 6 losing seasons. And counting. 3 first round exits. 4 times missing playoffs.

In short . why are we worst than last year? Because we meet teams like Wizards and Hornets only for 8 games, where last year there were 16 such games, vs competition that is delux G league level.

Hmm I love this. The money motivator is a big difference between seasons. Great analysis.

You don't think person is motivated to play harder once they are in situation to land contract worth $100 000 000 ?


hell, i called chat GPT to give me insight

Yes, the contract season miracle is a real phenomenon in the NBA, though it’s often debated whether it's just a coincidence or if players genuinely elevate their performance when a big payday is on the line. The idea is that players perform exceptionally well in the final year of their contract, leading to a much larger deal than expected.

Why It Happens:
Increased Motivation – Players know they’re playing for their next contract, so they may put in extra effort, stay in peak condition, and focus more on performance.
More Opportunities – Some players get increased playing time due to trades, injuries, or team situations, leading to inflated stats.
Improved Conditioning & Focus – Some players take better care of their bodies or play with extra intensity knowing financial security is at stake.
System Fit & Luck – A change in coaching, teammates, or role can lead to a breakout season that just happens to align with contract timing.

[JoshuaPotter]

To be honest, last season was the anomaly. We’ve been HORRIBLE way more than we’ve been good. It looks like last season was a fluke instead of us being on the rise. These two seasons have been polar opposites, I guess we have to call a spade a spade.

If you stack the two seasons side by side and pick the healthy season as the fluke vs the injury riddled season that says a lot.

Oh give me a break.
Two past months we have 1 starter out and 1 bench scorer out.

IN mean time we are losing borderline rigged games ( Raptors game, 5 rotation players out, including all star, starter) , they take out starting 5 for past 8 min and we still fumble game.
Or Bulls game ( 4 key rotation players out AFTER they made lose-now move at deadline) and we lose that one too.

We were healthiest team last year but there is one other key factor that you simply won't admit.

Money.

2023-24 had one thing in common that current year does not have.

Franz- playing for extension
Suggs- playing for extension ( only health year in his career to a point)
Isaac- playing for extension
Carter- eventually playing for extension
Goga - playing for extension
Harris - playing for extension
Mortiz- playing for extension
Fultz- plaiyng for extension ( fail)

Those guys went balls deep because money is powerful motivator. This year there is no edge to anybody because they are all fat and happy ( figuratively) .

on top of that, East was flat out wracked by injuries. Regardless, last year Magic were 0,5 games away from 9th spot, despite winning 47 games.

I already explained why 47 wins last year ment less last year than usual. By beating teams below .400 win rate, Magic secured 24 wins in 28 games, meaning they were 23-31 vs competitive teams.

This year there are only 3 teams with sub .400 win rate= Magic winning much less than last year.

Just like Knicks can't beat contenders, we can't beat good ( winning ) teams.

Magic were never true "deep playoff contender"; not last year, not this year. Why? 19-28 vs winning teams this year. 8-22 vs teams with positive record this year.

It is what it is. Roster without ballhandlers and no high end- quality bigs with two forwards pretending to be playmakers was fundamentally flawed from start.
Jeff Weltman just isn't person capable of building winning rosters. 8 years, 6 losing seasons. And counting. 3 first round exits. 4 times missing playoffs.

In short . why are we worst than last year? Because we meet teams like Wizards and Hornets only for 8 games, where last year there were 16 such games, vs competition that is delux G league level.

If its an elephant in the room why did you take so long to say it while simultaneously accusing someone else of not saying it.

This is outside of it being a contributing point. Again, I think its a totality of reasons and not a single one.

[eyriq]

Oh give me a break.
Two past months we have 1 starter out and 1 bench scorer out.

IN mean time we are losing borderline rigged games ( Raptors game, 5 rotation players out, including all star, starter) , they take out starting 5 for past 8 min and we still fumble game.
Or Bulls game ( 4 key rotation players out AFTER they made lose-now move at deadline) and we lose that one too.

We were healthiest team last year but there is one other key factor that you simply won't admit.

Money.

2023-24 had one thing in common that current year does not have.

Franz- playing for extension
Suggs- playing for extension ( only health year in his career to a point)
Isaac- playing for extension
Carter- eventually playing for extension
Goga - playing for extension
Harris - playing for extension
Mortiz- playing for extension
Fultz- plaiyng for extension ( fail)

Those guys went balls deep because money is powerful motivator. This year there is no edge to anybody because they are all fat and happy ( figuratively) .

on top of that, East was flat out wracked by injuries. Regardless, last year Magic were 0,5 games away from 9th spot, despite winning 47 games.

I already explained why 47 wins last year ment less last year than usual. By beating teams below .400 win rate, Magic secured 24 wins in 28 games, meaning they were 23-31 vs competitive teams.

This year there are only 3 teams with sub .400 win rate= Magic winning much less than last year.

Just like Knicks can't beat contenders, we can't beat good ( winning ) teams.

Magic were never true "deep playoff contender"; not last year, not this year. Why? 19-28 vs winning teams this year. 8-22 vs teams with positive record this year.

It is what it is. Roster without ballhandlers and no high end- quality bigs with two forwards pretending to be playmakers was fundamentally flawed from start.
Jeff Weltman just isn't person capable of building winning rosters. 8 years, 6 losing seasons. And counting. 3 first round exits. 4 times missing playoffs.

In short . why are we worst than last year? Because we meet teams like Wizards and Hornets only for 8 games, where last year there were 16 such games, vs competition that is delux G league level.

Hmm I love this. The money motivator is a big difference between seasons. Great analysis.

You don't think person is motivated to play harder once they are in situation to land contract worth $100 000 000 ?


hell, i called chat GPT to give me insight

Yes, the contract season miracle is a real phenomenon in the NBA, though it’s often debated whether it's just a coincidence or if players genuinely elevate their performance when a big payday is on the line. The idea is that players perform exceptionally well in the final year of their contract, leading to a much larger deal than expected.

Why It Happens:
Increased Motivation – Players know they’re playing for their next contract, so they may put in extra effort, stay in peak condition, and focus more on performance.
More Opportunities – Some players get increased playing time due to trades, injuries, or team situations, leading to inflated stats.
Improved Conditioning & Focus – Some players take better care of their bodies or play with extra intensity knowing financial security is at stake.
System Fit & Luck – A change in coaching, teammates, or role can lead to a breakout season that just happens to align with contract timing.

No, I’m being genuine, it’s an important factor to consider

[JoshuaPotter]

pepe my man, check the wellness thread. We cancelled the drinking game....

[JoshuaPotter]

My favorite comment in the thread was knightro saying to fire weltman directly into the sun. I spit my drink out and had to explain myself in front of everyone.

This isn't just a tough loss, nor is it a tough losing streak. I do think Mose either already has or is in danger of losing the group. But he at least got his money bag last year with his contract renewed too. (That was for Pepe)