LaMelephant: The LaMelo Ball Thread (#2)

[SWedd523]

You just can't miss on as many draft picks as we have missed on in the history of this franchise, as a place that seemingly never has cap space nor is a destination. The utter lack of talent from top to bottom on this roster can be easily traced back to a decade of poor draft decisions. We have been so horrendously bad in that area for so long that it's just crippled this franchise.

You know what we should do?

Continue to tank and hope a draft pick will fix everything

It makes sense if you don't think about it

[yosemiteben]

I guess I just have the outlier take that guy who has had seemingly strength related catastrophic injuries in all but one year he's been in the league should prioritize fixing his own strength and health before he complains about how the team is performing. Seems to me that these proclamations of him being frustrated with results the last few seasons is missing that fairly significant context.

But yeah, I'm sure he wants to win and I'm sure our FO is actively communicating with him about their plans. I'm also certain that Scotto has no inside knowledge and how report is not a signal of anything not already obvious.

[fatlever]

I guess I just have the outlier take that guy who has had seemingly strength related catastrophic injuries in all but one year he's been in the league should prioritize fixing his own strength and health before he complains about how the team is performing. Seems to me that these proclamations of him being frustrated with results the last few seasons is missing that fairly significant context.

But yeah, I'm sure he wants to win and I'm sure our FO is actively communicating with him about their plans. I'm also certain that Scotto has no inside knowledge and how report is not a signal of anything not already obvious.

You're not wrong. But this also implies that he has some amazing ability for introspection and looking at his own faults before looking at anything else to blame. That's a pretty rare trait in humans in general let alone a 22 year old multimillionaire athlete who's been told he's God's gift to basketball since he was 10.

[Rich4114]

I'm so so so tired of this narrative around LaMelo. It's like some people completely ignore the environment around him and just focus all of the negative energy on the ONE good thing this team has going for it. Unreal.

If I'm LaMelo, I am asking out. This franchise is toxic to his career at this point because of the way it's run and its history. The only way this team has a chance is if they luck into it either via Flagg or accidentally signing some cheap FA that ends up having a career year like Jeremy Lin or Kelly Oubre.

I know we have new owners and they haven't even been here more than a year with one off-season under their belts... but the history of losing, the history of wasted draft capital, the history of sitting out trade deadlines and free agency, letting good talent walk (Monk) and replacing them with unplayable talent is just not something that will help a bottom feeder franchise make it to the playoffs. Either make aggressive moves to put this team in position to be competitive around your All-Star PG this summer or move him and just plan to tank and keep drafting Salaun's and trading for Josh Greens like every casual Hornets fan seems to want. I'm sure Brandon Miller will get at least one more season before we turn on him too for not single handedly carrying a poorly run franchise to the playoffs.

[JustBuzzin]

I'm so so so tired of this narrative around LaMelo. It's like some people completely ignore the environment around him and just focus all of the negative energy on the ONE good thing this team has going for it. Unreal.

If I'm LaMelo, I am asking out. This franchise is toxic to his career at this point because of the way it's run and its history. The only way this team has a chance is if they luck into it either via Flagg or accidentally signing some cheap FA that ends up having a career year like Jeremy Lin or Kelly Oubre.

I know we have new owners and they haven't even been here more than a year with one off-season under their belts... but the history of losing, the history of wasted draft capital, the history of sitting out trade deadlines and free agency, letting good talent walk (Monk) and replacing them with unplayable talent is just not something that will help a bottom feeder franchise make it to the playoffs. Either make aggressive moves to put this team in position to be competitive around your All-Star PG this summer or move him and just plan to tank and keep drafting Salaun's and trading for Josh Greens like every casual Hornets fan seems to want. I'm sure Brandon Miller will get at least one more season before we turn on him too for not single handedly carrying a poorly run franchise to the playoffs.

Melo is not available enough to be pointing fingers.

It goes both ways. People on the outside see a guy who plays flashy and doesn't win many games. Yes part of the blame is on us for surrounding him with trash. The other part is on him because he's not playing many games which makes us a even worse team when he's not on the floor.

We get Flagg and keep Melo yeah that sounds good on paper, but when we only have 40 games of Melo with Flagg what are we actually accomplishing?

In order to build team chemistry on the court you need everyone available to play. Melo in and out of the lineup is just screwing with on court chemistry.

[Rich4114]

I'm so so so tired of this narrative around LaMelo. It's like some people completely ignore the environment around him and just focus all of the negative energy on the ONE good thing this team has going for it. Unreal.

If I'm LaMelo, I am asking out. This franchise is toxic to his career at this point because of the way it's run and its history. The only way this team has a chance is if they luck into it either via Flagg or accidentally signing some cheap FA that ends up having a career year like Jeremy Lin or Kelly Oubre.

I know we have new owners and they haven't even been here more than a year with one off-season under their belts... but the history of losing, the history of wasted draft capital, the history of sitting out trade deadlines and free agency, letting good talent walk (Monk) and replacing them with unplayable talent is just not something that will help a bottom feeder franchise make it to the playoffs. Either make aggressive moves to put this team in position to be competitive around your All-Star PG this summer or move him and just plan to tank and keep drafting Salaun's and trading for Josh Greens like every casual Hornets fan seems to want. I'm sure Brandon Miller will get at least one more season before we turn on him too for not single handedly carrying a poorly run franchise to the playoffs.

Melo is not available enough to be pointing fingers.

It goes both ways. People on the outside see a guy who plays flashy and doesn't win many games. Yes part of the blame is on us for surrounding him with trash. The other part is on him because he's not playing many games which makes us a even worse team when he's not on the floor.

We get Flagg and keep Melo yeah that sounds good on paper, but when we only have 40 games of Melo with Flagg what are we actually accomplishing?

In order to build team chemistry on the court you need everyone available to play. Melo in and out of the lineup is just screwing with on court chemistry.

Take all of the games he's missed this season that were for "injury management" or "left wrist soreness" or "right ankle soreness" and add them to his games played. Those are the games he's missed because the org is tanking and would prefer to lose.

[KembaWalker]

similarly to the Mark trade stuff, i dont really get the mentality where people are like "Melo has no reason to to be miserable here because he's been hurt so much, he doesnt play defense, hes not a leader etc etc"

are we just pretending to not understand how human beings actually work or what

[EmpireFalls]

I can name a bunch of durable guys who play hard on both ends and have a good team-first attitude.

Guys like Tidjane Salaun. If that was the only thing that mattered then we could win it all with a lineup of Baugh, Jeffries, Green, Salaun, and Moussa.

In some ways that’s what I think Lee+the front office subconsciously wants. A bunch of try hard guys with no actual talent. Sure we’ll put up ghastly ORTGs straight from 1998 but we’ll play hard! Premier franchise!

[Rich4114]

I can name a bunch of durable guys who play hard on both ends and have a good team-first attitude.

Guys like Tidjane Salaun. If that was the only thing that mattered then we could win it all with a lineup of Baugh, Jeffries, Green, Salaun, and Moussa.

In some ways that’s what I think Lee+the front office subconsciously wants. A bunch of try hard guys with no actual talent. Sure we’ll put up ghastly ORTGs straight from 1998 but we’ll play hard! Premier franchise!

This is honestly my biggest fear between Jeff/Lee. Like they put talent on the back burner somehow. Imagine using Jeff Green as an example of the types of players you want to build your org around. We could rack up the most miles on-court of any team while never even attempting shots that way. All-time Cardio lineups.

[yosemiteben]

"They don't even want to be talented" - oof, that's a take

[yosemiteben]

I'm so so so tired of this narrative around LaMelo. It's like some people completely ignore the environment around him and just focus all of the negative energy on the ONE good thing this team has going for it. Unreal.

If I'm LaMelo, I am asking out. This franchise is toxic to his career at this point because of the way it's run and its history. The only way this team has a chance is if they luck into it either via Flagg or accidentally signing some cheap FA that ends up having a career year like Jeremy Lin or Kelly Oubre.

I know we have new owners and they haven't even been here more than a year with one off-season under their belts... but the history of losing, the history of wasted draft capital, the history of sitting out trade deadlines and free agency, letting good talent walk (Monk) and replacing them with unplayable talent is just not something that will help a bottom feeder franchise make it to the playoffs. Either make aggressive moves to put this team in position to be competitive around your All-Star PG this summer or move him and just plan to tank and keep drafting Salaun's and trading for Josh Greens like every casual Hornets fan seems to want. I'm sure Brandon Miller will get at least one more season before we turn on him too for not single handedly carrying a poorly run franchise to the playoffs.

Melo is not available enough to be pointing fingers.

It goes both ways. People on the outside see a guy who plays flashy and doesn't win many games. Yes part of the blame is on us for surrounding him with trash. The other part is on him because he's not playing many games which makes us a even worse team when he's not on the floor.

We get Flagg and keep Melo yeah that sounds good on paper, but when we only have 40 games of Melo with Flagg what are we actually accomplishing?

In order to build team chemistry on the court you need everyone available to play. Melo in and out of the lineup is just screwing with on court chemistry.

I generally agree with all of this, with the only qualifier that the goal is to keep Melo healthy and in CLT, not ditch him because historically he hasn't been healthy.

[EmpireFalls]

"They don't even want to be talented" - oof, that's a take

When you bring in Josh Green and Tidjane Salaun in your first offseason and point to them as the type of players you want setting your culture, it’s a logical conclusion.

They brought in two guys who cannot dribble a basketball.

[yosemiteben]

"They don't even want to be talented" - oof, that's a take

When you bring in Josh Green and Tidjane Salaun in your first offseason and point to them as the type of players you want setting your culture, it’s a logical conclusion.

They brought in two guys who cannot dribble a basketball.

I get you don't like them, and I'm not exactly a raving fan either, but this sort of hyperbolic take is just too much for me to engage with. I'm sure that our GM is not actively trying to reduce the talent level of the team with the goal of making it less talented. That's nonsense.

[EmpireFalls]

"They don't even want to be talented" - oof, that's a take

When you bring in Josh Green and Tidjane Salaun in your first offseason and point to them as the type of players you want setting your culture, it’s a logical conclusion.

They brought in two guys who cannot dribble a basketball.

I get you don't like them, and I'm not exactly a raving fan either, but this sort of hyperbolic take is just too much for me to engage with. I'm sure that our GM is not actively trying to reduce the talent level of the team with the goal of making it less talented. That's nonsense.

You’re putting words in my mouth. I don’t believe Jeff is intentionally trying to make the team less talented.

He thinks he’s making us tougher and more competitive, those are the corporate buzzwords him and Lee always come back to. They keep praising Josh in pressers.

In 6 months we’ve brought in two of the least offensively gifted players ever to put on a Hornets uniform and traded our 20-10 young center after Oglesby said he wasn’t playing hard enough. Feel free to draw your own conclusions. They have lost any and all benefit of the doubt with me.

[HornetJail]

"They don't even want to be talented" - oof, that's a take

failing to see the issue with that statement when your offseason/in-season acquisitions as GM are:

Josh Green
Tidjane Salaun
Moussa Diabate
Josh Okogie
Jusuf Nurkic
DaQuan Jeffries
Taj Gibson
Isaiah Wong
Damion Baugh
KJ Simpson
(not including the 10-days and two-way guys that never played)

On a team starved for shot creation, they EXCLUSIVELY acquired players who do anything but that. Most of this list are 12-15th men on a playoff team, and should only see the floor to hustle around.

Zero of these players contribute on the offensive end. ZERO. Out of them only Baugh and Wong (who was waived for him) were even making real attempts to create offense (albeit inefficiently), beyond standing at the 3-point line and waiting for passes from LaMelo. I guess you could include Nurk for his passing but he can't score at all because he's busy taking almost two fifths of his shots from 3 where he hits at 12%.

There was a concerted effort to bring in some hustlers on D. That's good. But there was never not once, an attempt to bring in talent on the offensive end. They built this supporting cast as if we had Luka+Giannis together and just needed low-usage role players that stay out of the offense entirely.

If the front office has learned anything at all from this season, I hope it is that LaMelo is not a heliocentric PG like Luka, Trae, or prime Harden/Westbrook, and that force feeding him record usage like they did in the first couple months of the season is a one way ticket to tank city.

[yosemiteben]

It's one thing to say they misjudged talent, which I think is reasonable and debatable. It's another to say they have a subconscious goal of acquiring guys without talent, which IMO is not reasonable or debatable.

[JustBuzzin]

I'm so so so tired of this narrative around LaMelo. It's like some people completely ignore the environment around him and just focus all of the negative energy on the ONE good thing this team has going for it. Unreal.

If I'm LaMelo, I am asking out. This franchise is toxic to his career at this point because of the way it's run and its history. The only way this team has a chance is if they luck into it either via Flagg or accidentally signing some cheap FA that ends up having a career year like Jeremy Lin or Kelly Oubre.

I know we have new owners and they haven't even been here more than a year with one off-season under their belts... but the history of losing, the history of wasted draft capital, the history of sitting out trade deadlines and free agency, letting good talent walk (Monk) and replacing them with unplayable talent is just not something that will help a bottom feeder franchise make it to the playoffs. Either make aggressive moves to put this team in position to be competitive around your All-Star PG this summer or move him and just plan to tank and keep drafting Salaun's and trading for Josh Greens like every casual Hornets fan seems to want. I'm sure Brandon Miller will get at least one more season before we turn on him too for not single handedly carrying a poorly run franchise to the playoffs.

Melo is not available enough to be pointing fingers.

It goes both ways. People on the outside see a guy who plays flashy and doesn't win many games. Yes part of the blame is on us for surrounding him with trash. The other part is on him because he's not playing many games which makes us a even worse team when he's not on the floor.

We get Flagg and keep Melo yeah that sounds good on paper, but when we only have 40 games of Melo with Flagg what are we actually accomplishing?

In order to build team chemistry on the court you need everyone available to play. Melo in and out of the lineup is just screwing with on court chemistry.

I generally agree with all of this, with the only qualifier that the goal is to keep Melo healthy and in CLT, not ditch him because historically he hasn't been healthy.

How long does this goal last?

Melo has never been healthy since we drafted him. He's 23 years old. Is next year finally the year? Do we wait again after next season. What about after that? Look up Melo will 27 and we still asking just wait till he's healthy.

I hope he stays healthy, but judging their family history I'm not confident he can stay healthy.

[yosemiteben]

Melo is not available enough to be pointing fingers.

It goes both ways. People on the outside see a guy who plays flashy and doesn't win many games. Yes part of the blame is on us for surrounding him with trash. The other part is on him because he's not playing many games which makes us a even worse team when he's not on the floor.

We get Flagg and keep Melo yeah that sounds good on paper, but when we only have 40 games of Melo with Flagg what are we actually accomplishing?

In order to build team chemistry on the court you need everyone available to play. Melo in and out of the lineup is just screwing with on court chemistry.

I generally agree with all of this, with the only qualifier that the goal is to keep Melo healthy and in CLT, not ditch him because historically he hasn't been healthy.

How long does this goal last?

Beyond year 1 of a new FO, coaching staff, and medical staff?

[SWedd523]

"They don't even want to be talented" - oof, that's a take

"Long Term Vision"

"Injury Management"

[KembaWalker]

if the team is so horrible at multitasking that they've actually convinced people that keeping LaMelo healthy is the primary and most important goal of the entire operation of the franchise for an entire year+ (ongoing? endless? in perpetuity?) to the point where they've been given a total pass for neglecting all other aspects of team building in pursuit of this goal leading us to this current dismal state of the franchise, then getting rid of him would be maybe the best thing that could ever happen.

this is a professional basketball team not LaMelo Ball's personal private ankle rehab clinic