Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[tsherkin]

i get tsherkin has been pumping the brakes on the scottie hype
but at least he agrees with my position that scottie took small steps in his ball-handling and mid-range

I mean, if you watch the games, there ARE things to be happy with, right? Scottie is a lot like Paolo Banchero in some ways, which has become clear watching Orlando and yelling at ORL fans on the GB, lol. He gets where he wants to go, but he struggles to actually make the shot when he gets there. And if and when that changes, we've got something to work with, but until then, empty calories, right? And of course statistically, Scottie's having a very clear positive season from 10-16 feet on low volume, though it's starting to normalize a bit.

And honestly, I want Scottie to be as good as he can be. He seems a decent dude, he does a lot of things well, he doesn't seem to mind Toronto, you know?

[Vampirate]

Barnes atm is a really good 2P scorer, and a really bad 3P scorer

It's night and day on these plaits

.695/.456./.493/.354 from 0 feet to deep mid range, if you told a raptors fan he'd be averaging this you'd be happy.....but....

However his .268 3P is easily the worst in his career, his 3P percentage is dragging down his overall FG%

Thing is he needs to get his 3P shooting back to respectable numbers and it's the main thing he needs to focus on imo, even just focus on catch and shoot etc

I think his mid range is here to stay but I honestly don't know.

[dballislife]

yes scottie improved his midrange game but hes forced to do so because he cannot consistently get by people and score at rim, he has to settle for the midrange and he cant shoot 3s

maybe scottie is only a efficient 18ppg guy with good offensive talent around him

[Tripod]

yes scottie improved his midrange game but hes forced to do so because he cannot consistently get by people and score at rim, he has to settle for the midrange and he cant shoot 3s

maybe scottie is only a efficient 18ppg guy with good offensive talent around him

That with great defense is a hell of a player

[tsherkin]

Barnes atm is a really good 2P scorer, and a really bad 3P scorer

Not really. He's a 96 2FG+ guy who doesnt get to the rim well. "Really good" is a hearty exaggeration, which is the problem. If he waa very good inside the arc, his 3pt shooting would be a lot more tolerable.

[canada_dry]

Scottie was a high pick in the worst contract draft on the bill simmons podcast.

Basically compared him to iggy as a 3rd option type. Even some Wiggins comps.

Tough.

But interestingly, mentioned scottie mafia giving them grief when for example wos said hes not gonna he kawhi a couple years ago.

Scottie mafia is rabid. This is true.

Do i agree about how high he ranks on the bad contract draft? No.

@about the 50 minute mark below:

https://youtu.be/Aganp7ZHZn8?si=BHkK1weIlrFQJM64

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Thaddy]

Scottie was a high pick in the worst contract draft on the bill simmons podcast.

Basically compared him to iggy as a 3rd option type. Even some Wiggins comps.

Tough.

But interestingly, mentioned scottie mafia giving them grief when for example wos said hes not gonna he kawhi a couple years ago.

Scottie mafia is rabid. This is true.

Do i agree about how high he ranks on the bad contract draft? No.

@about the 50 minute mark below:

https://youtu.be/Aganp7ZHZn8?si=BHkK1weIlrFQJM64

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Simmons doesn't watch Barnes and it's obvious. He's just a Boston fan. Barnes has improved a lot this year from the mid range. He's going to the rim a lot less and it seems to be by design. They are working on gradually getting his range out to the perimeter.

He's showing 43% of his shots from 3 to 16 feet and getting to the rim at 20.6%. He is getting to the rim 7% less than prior years and it seems like it's by design to expand his game. I don't know what the other explanation could be. The good news is that his mid range percentages are really good and at an all time high volume.

3-10 feet he's shooting 45.6% which are 24.2% of his attempts.
10-16 he's shooting 49.3% which are 18.2% of his attempts.

I think he's growing his game at a steady pace while also making the right reads on offense most of the time. Eventually his mid range game will expand to deeper range and become even better. He's going to see Ingram and play with a great scorer.

I would even give the Ingram trade that spin, prospects develop when they play with great players that set a high bar on what good offense, defense, rebounding, shooting, etc is.

[tsherkin]

He's showing 43% of his shots from 3 to 16 feet and getting to the rim at 20.6%. He is getting to the rim 7% less than prior years and it seems like it's by design to expand his game. I don't know what the other explanation could be. The good news is that his mid range percentages are really good and at an all time high volume.

The other explanation is that he has only so many possessions, and settling for mid-range shots instead of trying to get all the way to the rim, while taking more 3s instead of using those possessions to attack.

[djsunyc]

barnes is not an aesthetically pleasing offensive player. that, by default, will come will a negative view from non raptor fans. combine that with not winning games and he is an easy target.

simmons and co said he is paid like a #1 option so he should be one. meanwhile franz got the same deal for being the #2 option but since his game is aesthetically better and the team won 47 games last year, he is not even in their thought process for evaluation.

ingram is on their list too.

it's just entertainment so dont take what they say seriously.

raptors need to win games. only way to change any perception and even then it will still be an uphill battle.

[tsherkin]

barnes is not an aesthetically pleasing offensive player. that, by default, will come will a negative view from non raptor fans. combine that with not winning games and he is an easy target.

His game isn't that bad. If he was consistently good, people would get over it. He isn't, so they don't. If that changes, so will perception. And as you say, winning is something of a panacea, even if it shouldn't be when people become confused about what's causing the wins.

Barnes just needs to play better. Until that happens, he'll be eating it about his performance, and with good reason. We can break down the minutiae of what he does well and does poorly all we like, but that's the root truth.

[PushDaRock]

barnes is not an aesthetically pleasing offensive player. that, by default, will come will a negative view from non raptor fans. combine that with not winning games and he is an easy target.

simmons and co said he is paid like a #1 option so he should be one. meanwhile franz got the same deal for being the #2 option but since his game is aesthetically better and the team won 47 games last year, he is not even in their thought process for evaluation.

ingram is on their list too.

it's just entertainment so dont take what they say seriously.

raptors need to win games. only way to change any perception and even then it will still be an uphill battle.

Not sure how much people care about aesthetics, it's his effectiveness that's in question. Being so inefficient in year 4 while only scoring 20 ppg on a bad team isn't encouraging when we are projecting his offensive peak.

[HangTime]

barnes is not an aesthetically pleasing offensive player. that, by default, will come will a negative view from non raptor fans. combine that with not winning games and he is an easy target.

simmons and co said he is paid like a #1 option so he should be one. meanwhile franz got the same deal for being the #2 option but since his game is aesthetically better and the team won 47 games last year, he is not even in their thought process for evaluation.

ingram is on their list too.

it's just entertainment so dont take what they say seriously.

raptors need to win games. only way to change any perception and even then it will still be an uphill battle.

Not sure how much people care about aesthetics, it's his effectiveness that's in question. Being so inefficient in year 4 while only scoring 20 ppg on a bad team isn't encouraging when we are projecting his offensive peak.

He might be in year 4, but he's in year 2 of development.
No one seems to see this, but a few of us.

His first years, he played like a plug and play vet.

Last year was the start of his development, and he became an Allstar.
A mid-season roster change, put that on pause while we incorporated RJ and IQ. That's 2 new starters.

This year, fit wise is a better roster, but less experienced, which makes the development harder, on purpose.


He's an unconventional player, with an unconventional road to stardom.
I think this what people are missing.

[PushDaRock]

barnes is not an aesthetically pleasing offensive player. that, by default, will come will a negative view from non raptor fans. combine that with not winning games and he is an easy target.

simmons and co said he is paid like a #1 option so he should be one. meanwhile franz got the same deal for being the #2 option but since his game is aesthetically better and the team won 47 games last year, he is not even in their thought process for evaluation.

ingram is on their list too.

it's just entertainment so dont take what they say seriously.

raptors need to win games. only way to change any perception and even then it will still be an uphill battle.

Not sure how much people care about aesthetics, it's his effectiveness that's in question. Being so inefficient in year 4 while only scoring 20 ppg on a bad team isn't encouraging when we are projecting his offensive peak.

He might be in year 4, but he's in year 2 of development.
No one seems to see this, but a few of us.

His first years, he played like a plug and play vet.

Last year was the start of his development, and he became an Allstar.
A mid-season roster change, put that on pause while we incorporated RJ and IQ. That's 2 new starters.

This year, fit wise is a better roster, but less experienced, which makes the development harder, on purpose.


He's an unconventional player, with an unconventional road to stardom.
I think this what people are missing.

He's shooting 27% from three, what's the excuse for that? Are you trying to say he didn't try to develop his shot in the first 2 years?

Like I said to you before, next year the excuse if his performance sucks again will be because they're incorporating Ingram. Nothing is ever Scottie's fault.

[HangTime]

Not sure how much people care about aesthetics, it's his effectiveness that's in question. Being so inefficient in year 4 while only scoring 20 ppg on a bad team isn't encouraging when we are projecting his offensive peak.

He might be in year 4, but he's in year 2 of development.
No one seems to see this, but a few of us.

His first years, he played like a plug and play vet.

Last year was the start of his development, and he became an Allstar.
A mid-season roster change, put that on pause while we incorporated RJ and IQ. That's 2 new starters.

This year, fit wise is a better roster, but less experienced, which makes the development harder, on purpose.


He's an unconventional player, with an unconventional road to stardom.
I think this what people are missing.

He's shooting 27% from three, what's the excuse for that? Are you trying to say he didn't try to develop his shot in the first 2 years?

Like I said to you before, next year the excuse if his performance sucks again will be because they're incorporating Ingram. Nothing is ever Scottie's fault.

Did you see his first two years? He was clearly the most talented, but Nick didnt even try to develop him. We got glimpses of what he can do as a lead guy, and it looked good.


Again, launching threes this year was part of the development, the eye and ankle injuries were unfortunate, and had huge impact on that.
But taking them was to get him comfortable in game, doesn't matter if it goes.

If you want Pre-OG trade Scottie, shooting nearly 40% three, I think we need to draft/trade for a lead defender.
It Allows Scottie to play rover, allowing him to have more energy on offence.

Also, I personally think it'll be a smoother fit with Ingram, than it was with Pascal.

[mdenny]

Scottie was a high pick in the worst contract draft on the bill simmons podcast.

Basically compared him to iggy as a 3rd option type. Even some Wiggins comps.

Tough.

But interestingly, mentioned scottie mafia giving them grief when for example wos said hes not gonna he kawhi a couple years ago.

Scottie mafia is rabid. This is true.

Do i agree about how high he ranks on the bad contract draft? No.

@about the 50 minute mark below:

https://youtu.be/Aganp7ZHZn8?si=BHkK1weIlrFQJM64

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Simmons doesn't watch Barnes and it's obvious. He's just a Boston fan. Barnes has improved a lot this year from the mid range. He's going to the rim a lot less and it seems to be by design. They are working on gradually getting his range out to the perimeter.

He's showing 43% of his shots from 3 to 16 feet and getting to the rim at 20.6%. He is getting to the rim 7% less than prior years and it seems like it's by design to expand his game. I don't know what the other explanation could be. The good news is that his mid range percentages are really good and at an all time high volume.

3-10 feet he's shooting 45.6% which are 24.2% of his attempts.
10-16 he's shooting 49.3% which are 18.2% of his attempts.

I think he's growing his game at a steady pace while also making the right reads on offense most of the time. Eventually his mid range game will expand to deeper range and become even better. He's going to see Ingram and play with a great scorer.

I would even give the Ingram trade that spin, prospects develop when they play with great players that set a high bar on what good offense, defense, rebounding, shooting, etc is.

Blah blah blah.

He's looking like a top 50 or hopefully top 40 player. All the rest is noise. In other words.....way worse than his toxic boosters have been claiming the past 4 years while blaming and/or disrespecting some of the most respectable vets in the league.

[mdenny]

Scottie was a high pick in the worst contract draft on the bill simmons podcast.

Basically compared him to iggy as a 3rd option type. Even some Wiggins comps.

Tough.

But interestingly, mentioned scottie mafia giving them grief when for example wos said hes not gonna he kawhi a couple years ago.

Scottie mafia is rabid. This is true.

Do i agree about how high he ranks on the bad contract draft? No.

@about the 50 minute mark below:

https://youtu.be/Aganp7ZHZn8?si=BHkK1weIlrFQJM64

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Simmons doesn't watch Barnes and it's obvious. He's just a Boston fan. Barnes has improved a lot this year from the mid range. He's going to the rim a lot less and it seems to be by design. They are working on gradually getting his range out to the perimeter.

He's showing 43% of his shots from 3 to 16 feet and getting to the rim at 20.6%. He is getting to the rim 7% less than prior years and it seems like it's by design to expand his game. I don't know what the other explanation could be. The good news is that his mid range percentages are really good and at an all time high volume.

3-10 feet he's shooting 45.6% which are 24.2% of his attempts.
10-16 he's shooting 49.3% which are 18.2% of his attempts.

I think he's growing his game at a steady pace while also making the right reads on offense most of the time. Eventually his mid range game will expand to deeper range and become even better. He's going to see Ingram and play with a great scorer.

I would even give the Ingram trade that spin, prospects develop when they play with great players that set a high bar on what good offense, defense, rebounding, shooting, etc is.

Blah blah blah.

He's looking like a top 50 or hopefully top 40 player. All the rest is noise. In other words.....way worse than his toxic boosters have been claiming the past 4 years while blaming and/or disrespecting some of the most respectable vets in the league.

"It's actually only his sec9nd year of development". What a bunch of crap.

[Mikistan]

Scottie was a high pick in the worst contract draft on the bill simmons podcast.

Basically compared him to iggy as a 3rd option type. Even some Wiggins comps.

Tough.

But interestingly, mentioned scottie mafia giving them grief when for example wos said hes not gonna he kawhi a couple years ago.

Scottie mafia is rabid. This is true.

Do i agree about how high he ranks on the bad contract draft? No.

@about the 50 minute mark below:

https://youtu.be/Aganp7ZHZn8?si=BHkK1weIlrFQJM64

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Simmons doesn't watch Barnes and it's obvious. He's just a Boston fan. Barnes has improved a lot this year from the mid range. He's going to the rim a lot less and it seems to be by design. They are working on gradually getting his range out to the perimeter.

He's showing 43% of his shots from 3 to 16 feet and getting to the rim at 20.6%. He is getting to the rim 7% less than prior years and it seems like it's by design to expand his game. I don't know what the other explanation could be. The good news is that his mid range percentages are really good and at an all time high volume.

3-10 feet he's shooting 45.6% which are 24.2% of his attempts.
10-16 he's shooting 49.3% which are 18.2% of his attempts.

I think he's growing his game at a steady pace while also making the right reads on offense most of the time. Eventually his mid range game will expand to deeper range and become even better. He's going to see Ingram and play with a great scorer.

I would even give the Ingram trade that spin, prospects develop when they play with great players that set a high bar on what good offense, defense, rebounding, shooting, etc is.

Blah blah blah.

He's looking like a top 50 or hopefully top 40 player. All the rest is noise. In other words.....way worse than his toxic boosters have been claiming the past 4 years while blaming and/or disrespecting some of the most respectable vets in the league.

"It's actually only his sec9nd year of development". What a bunch of crap.

Irony

[PushDaRock]

He might be in year 4, but he's in year 2 of development.
No one seems to see this, but a few of us.

His first years, he played like a plug and play vet.

Last year was the start of his development, and he became an Allstar.
A mid-season roster change, put that on pause while we incorporated RJ and IQ. That's 2 new starters.

This year, fit wise is a better roster, but less experienced, which makes the development harder, on purpose.


He's an unconventional player, with an unconventional road to stardom.
I think this what people are missing.

He's shooting 27% from three, what's the excuse for that? Are you trying to say he didn't try to develop his shot in the first 2 years?

Like I said to you before, next year the excuse if his performance sucks again will be because they're incorporating Ingram. Nothing is ever Scottie's fault.

Did you see his first two years? He was clearly the most talented, but Nick didnt even try to develop him. We got glimpses of what he can do as a lead guy, and it looked good.


Again, launching threes this year was part of the development, the eye and ankle injuries were unfortunate, and had huge impact on that.
But taking them was to get him comfortable in game, doesn't matter if it goes.

If you want Pre-OG trade Scottie, shooting nearly 40% three, I think we need to draft/trade for a lead defender.
It Allows Scottie to play rover, allowing him to have more energy on offence.

Also, I personally think it'll be a smoother fit with Ingram, than it was with Pascal.

lol never seen a player have this many excuses made for them, the golden child nickname Fred had for him is really quite accurate

[PushDaRock]

Scottie was a high pick in the worst contract draft on the bill simmons podcast.

Basically compared him to iggy as a 3rd option type. Even some Wiggins comps.

Tough.

But interestingly, mentioned scottie mafia giving them grief when for example wos said hes not gonna he kawhi a couple years ago.

Scottie mafia is rabid. This is true.

Do i agree about how high he ranks on the bad contract draft? No.

@about the 50 minute mark below:

https://youtu.be/Aganp7ZHZn8?si=BHkK1weIlrFQJM64

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Simmons doesn't watch Barnes and it's obvious. He's just a Boston fan. Barnes has improved a lot this year from the mid range. He's going to the rim a lot less and it seems to be by design. They are working on gradually getting his range out to the perimeter.

He's showing 43% of his shots from 3 to 16 feet and getting to the rim at 20.6%. He is getting to the rim 7% less than prior years and it seems like it's by design to expand his game. I don't know what the other explanation could be. The good news is that his mid range percentages are really good and at an all time high volume.

3-10 feet he's shooting 45.6% which are 24.2% of his attempts.
10-16 he's shooting 49.3% which are 18.2% of his attempts.

I think he's growing his game at a steady pace while also making the right reads on offense most of the time. Eventually his mid range game will expand to deeper range and become even better. He's going to see Ingram and play with a great scorer.

I would even give the Ingram trade that spin, prospects develop when they play with great players that set a high bar on what good offense, defense, rebounding, shooting, etc is.

Blah blah blah.

He's looking like a top 50 or hopefully top 40 player. All the rest is noise. In other words.....way worse than his toxic boosters have been claiming the past 4 years while blaming and/or disrespecting some of the most respectable vets in the league.

"It's actually only his sec9nd year of development". What a bunch of crap.

This board certainly flipped quick from blaming Siakam for holding Scottie back to Scottie needing more help quickly.

[LoveMyRaps]

barnes is not an aesthetically pleasing offensive player. that, by default, will come will a negative view from non raptor fans. combine that with not winning games and he is an easy target.

He's a very "aesthetically pleasing" player when he sticks to his strengths and doesn't start jacking up dumb 3s from the start of the game.
His poor shot selection makes him hard to watch at times but when he's locked in, he does everything so well - playmaking, mid range scoring, defense, etc.

I also don't have a problem with him taking 3s during the game, AS LONG AS he starts from scoring inside and works his way out. See the ball go through the net a few times via high percentage shots and then the 3 ball will follow suit.