Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[German Athens]

Would you guys still give up that ‘31 1st for Mark Williams?

Just because the lakers determined he failed his physical doesn’t mean the bucks would have the same conclusion. I’d imagine his cost has gone down and they’d still look to move him if they could after a publicly botched deal.

Maybe we could get more out of Charlotte.


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[tedbrogen]

Would you guys still give up that ‘31 1st for Mark Williams?

Just because the lakers determined he failed his physical doesn’t mean the bucks would have the same conclusion. I’d imagine his cost has gone down and they’d still look to move him if they could after a publicly botched deal.

Maybe we could get more out of Charlotte.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would easily do that. You could then let Brook and Bobby walk (or sign and trade them) while retaining Sims on the cheap. Then you have full access to the MLE.

[msiris]

One too many player fans rather then Bucks fans on this forum. Lol

[msiris]

I hope all the positivity regarding Kuzma and KPJ continue after this 2 week gauntlet coming up. Everything KPJ and Kuz does is seen with rose colored glasses right now.

There is no doubt the two of them bring athleticism and in the case of KPJ, high end bball skills. It's just that both of them have an extensive record with other teams that is consistent and are red flags (and I don't mean off court stuff with KPJ).

Indicting as rose-colored the vision of realGMers who've seen, verily, with their own two eyes these three new Bucks play--isn't viable. Two or more of your peers gathered here witnessed Kuzma move the ball & defend at will, KPJ pass and rebound and *not* ballhog willfully, and Sims turns out to be The Inverse Paul Mokeski who picks-&-rolls and dunks a lob like he's *seen it done before*. Unlike some on the roster. This quality play unfolded before your very eyes. Though understandably unrecognizable to some in a Bucks forum, the oncourt performance came first, the appreciative recognition it generated, second. That's the sequence. These events, these plays executed, are NBA roses by definition. When you haven't seen real roses in too long, ya might think it's the glasses (but somehow always someone else's). Qualitatively: the entire roster moved the ball the moment Kuzma hit the court. Massive upgrade. *Quantitatively*: one of the 3 just magically pulled a triple double out of his hat, in few minutes, w/o starters on-hand. I mean IF statistical metrics are your thing. Prior games in which Dame & Giannis *each* scored 36 to 40 points *also* featured little ball movement, no spark, few points from other guys, and a close finish and a likely defeat.

I'll take the spark.

To your larger point.

It's SPORTS. Expect to lose all the time. It's the NBA, it's the Bucks, if that helps. There's no world where winning effortlessly all the time is a) ever gonna happen, or b) could ever be enjoyable or worthwhile. Expectations don't go up just because we've acquired a few promising bball players.

Inevitably, the Bucks will lose games. Inevitably, these guys will make mistakes. (Kuzma as 'Closer' w a 3pt prayer when Green's on the court will not cut it.) Inevitably, this will come as *no surprise* to anyone with a sense of perspective. Inevitably, it will infuriate many whose unreasonable expectations are more or less, but definitely and absolutely, unwarranted.

Fully prepared to watch a gelling, developing roster rise together to meet increasingly tough challenges. There's no other reason to be here, collapse or not. I get it tho//when all the Donte not finishing, Khris buttafingers, G dribble&falldown eeiuuughhh!//is all seared into our realGM brain--I get it. I understand. It's easy to believe that believing in that historical style of play is not, somehow, leaning like a crutch on rose-colored glasses.

Gonna say it again. We saw realGMers assert as fact the notion that Sims, KPJ, Kuz were bad, dead-end no-good not-NBA players--BEFORE they'd so much as set foot on the court in a Bucks uniform. When no one could know. Fans fronting this bad take have been shown to have no basis in reality to speak about. So who's wearing reality-distorting glasses? Those interested in seeing how K, KPJ, Sims do haven't made undue or unearned claims.

We weren't winning anything pre deadline anyways but since the team has been fun to watch again.

[German Athens]

Would you guys still give up that ‘31 1st for Mark Williams?

Just because the lakers determined he failed his physical doesn’t mean the bucks would have the same conclusion. I’d imagine his cost has gone down and they’d still look to move him if they could after a publicly botched deal.

Maybe we could get more out of Charlotte.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would easily do that. You could then let Brook and Bobby walk (or sign and trade them) while retaining Sims on the cheap. Then you have full access to the MLE.

I’m expecting us to bring Brook back on a horford like contract where the AAV is somewhere between 10-14, and then letting Bobby go after he opts out.

At that point, we’d have the full MLE available anyway.


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[tedbrogen]

Would you guys still give up that ‘31 1st for Mark Williams?

Just because the lakers determined he failed his physical doesn’t mean the bucks would have the same conclusion. I’d imagine his cost has gone down and they’d still look to move him if they could after a publicly botched deal.

Maybe we could get more out of Charlotte.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would easily do that. You could then let Brook and Bobby walk (or sign and trade them) while retaining Sims on the cheap. Then you have full access to the MLE.

I’m expecting us to bring Brook back on a horford like contract where the AAV is somewhere between 10-14, and then letting Bobby go after he opts out.

At that point, we’d have the full MLE available anyway.


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In a situation where they trade for Williams who would instantly be the starter, would Brook want to come back with reduced minutes, or would he rather see if another team will pay him more to be a starter? Assuming Brook would happily take a pay cut is not a certainty.

[BigO]

Would you guys still give up that ‘31 1st for Mark Williams?

Just because the lakers determined he failed his physical doesn’t mean the bucks would have the same conclusion. I’d imagine his cost has gone down and they’d still look to move him if they could after a publicly botched deal.

Maybe we could get more out of Charlotte.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would easily do that. You could then let Brook and Bobby walk (or sign and trade them) while retaining Sims on the cheap. Then you have full access to the MLE.

I’m expecting us to bring Brook back on a horford like contract where the AAV is somewhere between 10-14, and then letting Bobby go after he opts out.

At that point, we’d have the full MLE available anyway.


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Another example of Buck's posters elevating opposing players and devaluing Buck's players.

Mark Williams is an efficient guy who can rebound. But he is not a rim protector and his scoring is within a few feet of the basket. Unless a guy is dominant, like Gobert, I want nothing to do with one dimensional centers.

This is a new era and veratility is much more important than prior eras. Now if you're talking about a guy like Myles Turner, then I'm interested. I'd even give up quite a bit for a Kel'el Ware, someone who has flexibility and a broader game.

[tedbrogen]

I would easily do that. You could then let Brook and Bobby walk (or sign and trade them) while retaining Sims on the cheap. Then you have full access to the MLE.

I’m expecting us to bring Brook back on a horford like contract where the AAV is somewhere between 10-14, and then letting Bobby go after he opts out.

At that point, we’d have the full MLE available anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Another example of Buck's posters elevating opposing players and devaluing Buck's players.

Mark Williams is an efficient guy who can rebound. But he is not a rim protector and his scoring is within a few feet of the basket. Unless a guy is dominant, like Gobert, I want nothing to do with one dimensional centers.

This is a new era and veratility is much more important than prior eras. Now if you're talking about a guy like Myles Turner, then I'm interested. I'd even give up quite a bit for a Kel'el Ware, someone who has flexibility and a broader game.

Haven’t watched Williams a lot in the league but he shots 78% from the line and displayed a really solid jumper on long twos in college. Presumably, he could become league average at threes if he was allowed to shoot them. Or at the very least, he’s not limited to only dunks. He’s also only 23, was a rim protector in college, is seven feet tall, and seems to have the athleticism for full switch defense.

You can either take a chance on someone like that or hope Brook magically wants to take a discount and hope the wheels don’t completely fall off for Brook in his late 30s.

But if the improvement from adding younger guys like Kuz and KPJ won’t sway people that getting younger around Dame and Giannis is the way to go, I don’t know what will.

[BigO]

I would easily do that. You could then let Brook and Bobby walk (or sign and trade them) while retaining Sims on the cheap. Then you have full access to the MLE.

I’m expecting us to bring Brook back on a horford like contract where the AAV is somewhere between 10-14, and then letting Bobby go after he opts out.

At that point, we’d have the full MLE available anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Another example of Buck's posters elevating opposing players and devaluing Buck's players.

Mark Williams is an efficient guy who can rebound. But he is not a rim protector and his scoring is within a few feet of the basket. Unless a guy is dominant, like Gobert, I want nothing to do with one dimensional centers.

This is a new era and veratility is much more important than prior eras. Now if you're talking about a guy like Myles Turner, then I'm interested. I'd even give up quite a bit for a Kel'el Ware, someone who has flexibility and a broader game.

Younger is fine in the abstract, but the question is whether the player is good at basketball. We're going to find out soon about Kuzma and KPJ. Hopefully, they're as good as you think.

[tedbrogen]

I’m expecting us to bring Brook back on a horford like contract where the AAV is somewhere between 10-14, and then letting Bobby go after he opts out.

At that point, we’d have the full MLE available anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Another example of Buck's posters elevating opposing players and devaluing Buck's players.

Mark Williams is an efficient guy who can rebound. But he is not a rim protector and his scoring is within a few feet of the basket. Unless a guy is dominant, like Gobert, I want nothing to do with one dimensional centers.

This is a new era and veratility is much more important than prior eras. Now if you're talking about a guy like Myles Turner, then I'm interested. I'd even give up quite a bit for a Kel'el Ware, someone who has flexibility and a broader game.

Younger is fine in the abstract, but the question is whether the player is good at basketball. We're going to find out soon about Kuzma and KPJ. Hopefully, they're as good as you think.

They’ve seemed perfect next to Dame and Giannis thus far…

[chonestown]

If the Bucks sign PJ Tucker and retain Kevin Porter and Doc ends up trying to explain on-court concepts to the incoming veteran graybeard and to indicate he (Doc) is done with the thought and wants to make sure it is clear and he (Doc) ends with "'K, PJ?" what I am saying is it probably would confuse both Tucker and Scoot not really something for you to use but you might find it helpful for when oblique "communication issues" are whispered a bout the lockered room you can tell'em Chones had an itch

[nagawicka]

Would you guys still give up that ‘31 1st for Mark Williams?

Just because the lakers determined he failed his physical doesn’t mean the bucks would have the same conclusion. I’d imagine his cost has gone down and they’d still look to move him if they could after a publicly botched deal.

Maybe we could get more out of Charlotte.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would easily do that. You could then let Brook and Bobby walk (or sign and trade them) while retaining Sims on the cheap. Then you have full access to the MLE.

Sure, in another world. A non-Bucks world in which we have *not* traded away all our draft picks like this is some dumb Jack in the Beanstalk story. It's the kinda trade we needed, the exact kinda trade that goes and gets a real Big that can take minutes from Brook, Giannis, and Bobby--making all three more effective. It's perfect.

So, no, no way, not in this lifetime, not until we have a full set of picks again, Cleveland built its roster through the draft IIRC, and that's why we'll continue to lose to the Cavs, and others. If we hadn't blown all our picks with not much to show for it, sure, go ahead, you've used your assets responsibly, but that's not what happened, we didn't, and now all the tantrums want to go back to the cupboard for more, but the cupboard and the pantry are bare, nothin in it, even the '31 pick isn't ours to use for 6 more years. If G and D and Doc and Ham (& 49 other assistant coaches) can't prevail upon the greatest basketball players In the World to involve Jericho Sims enough to level him up, then *trading* for Mark Williams will do exactly ZERO to solve the problem. If that goes down, trade both and fire Doc because having Sims or acquring Williams is no basis for repeating the same msitakes over and over and over

[German Athens]

Would you guys still give up that ‘31 1st for Mark Williams?

Just because the lakers determined he failed his physical doesn’t mean the bucks would have the same conclusion. I’d imagine his cost has gone down and they’d still look to move him if they could after a publicly botched deal.

Maybe we could get more out of Charlotte.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would easily do that. You could then let Brook and Bobby walk (or sign and trade them) while retaining Sims on the cheap. Then you have full access to the MLE.

Sure, in another world. A non-Bucks world in which we have *not* traded away all our draft picks like this is some dumb Jack in the Beanstalk story. It's the kinda trade we needed, the exact kinda trade that goes and gets a real Big that can take minutes from Brook, Giannis, and Bobby--making all three more effective. It's perfect.

So, no, no way, not in this lifetime, not until we have a full set of picks again, Cleveland built its roster through the draft IIRC, and that's why we'll continue to lose to the Cavs, and others. If we hadn't blown all our picks with not much to show for it, sure, go ahead, you've used your assets responsibly, but that's not what happened, we didn't, and now all the tantrums want to go back to the cupboard for more, but the cupboard and the pantry are bare, nothin in it, even the '31 pick isn't ours to use for 6 more years. If G and D and Doc and Ham (& 49 other assistant coaches) can't prevail upon the greatest basketball players In the World to involve Jericho Sims enough to level him up, then *trading* for Mark Williams will do exactly ZERO to solve the problem. If that goes down, trade both and fire Doc because having Sims or acquring Williams is no basis for repeating the same msitakes over and over and over

Cleveland has done a very nice job building their team, but it’s by no means strictly through the draft.

They acquired Donovan Mitchell, their best player, by trading 3 1sts and 2 swaps on top of Lauri, Agbaji, and Collin sexton.

They acquired Jarrett Allen by trading 1 1st and 1 2nd with Exum.

They had a period where they were quite bad and drafted Garland 5th, and Mobley 3rd.


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[MickeyDavis]

As we talk about B2B,

When there was a lockout before George Karl's first season the season didn't start until February 5 and they played 50 games in 90 days. There were 2 sets of B2B2B. Ray played all 50 games, 34.1 minutes per game. Big Dog played 47 games. Ray played all 82 the year before, 40.1 minutes per game. Yeah I know the game is "different" now but that's still pretty impressive. I miss Ray.

[crkone]

Read on Twitter

Bucks against teams with a top-ten point differential according to Cleaning the Glass:
3-14 (4th fewest wins)
106.1 ORTG (27th)
119.7 DRTG (18th)
-13.6 differential (26th)

In March, they have 6 more games against teams in the top ten.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah that's pretty bad. I will say though, 6 of those 17-games came in that awful 2-8 stretch to begin the season when everyone, even Giannis, was playing like crap and just looked flat out unprepared out of the gate (thanks Doc). This next stretch is gonna be way more telling in how far this team can potentially go.

[paulpressey25]

As we talk about B2B,

When there was a lockout before George Karl's first season the season didn't start until February 5 and they played 50 games in 90 days. There were 2 sets of B2B2B. Ray played all 50 games, 34.1 minutes per game. Big Dog played 47 games. Ray played all 82 the year before, 40.1 minutes per game. Yeah I know the game is "different" now but that's still pretty impressive. I miss Ray.

You’re going to get me going again on the “load management” topic.

We had a ton of back to back playoff games in the 1980’s. That was always the challenge for Lanier. Could he go B2B in the playoffs with his knee issues.

[soxperry]

Whats funny is that last year we did really well against the top teams and then dropped a ton of games to bad teams

We might be done though idk.

[rilamann]

As we talk about B2B,

When there was a lockout before George Karl's first season the season didn't start until February 5 and they played 50 games in 90 days. There were 2 sets of B2B2B. Ray played all 50 games, 34.1 minutes per game. Big Dog played 47 games. Ray played all 82 the year before, 40.1 minutes per game. Yeah I know the game is "different" now but that's still pretty impressive. I miss Ray.

You’re going to get me going again on the “load management” topic.

We had a ton of back to back playoff games in the 1980’s. That was always the challenge for Lanier. Could he go B2B in the playoffs with his knee issues.

I am not quite as old as you (Sorry lol). But I am old enough to remember when it was a regular thing that games 3 & 4 of a playoff series would be played B2B on Saturday & Sunday. Crazy to think that's how it used be.

I am not saying that I think that the NBA should go back to that. But it is crazy that in those days there seemed to be less injuries and the overall quality play was higher. I was just saying the same thing in the game thread, but the game was also a lot more physical back then.

It wasn't even just physical down low back in the day. Guards were physical, too. I think back to a guy like Derek Harper hand-checking the hell out of guys bringing the ball up and on the perimeter for the entire game. Those days are long gone...lol.

I am not even knocking today's players, it's a different era and a different style, different rules. There are a lot of great and very talented players today, we currently watch one of the best to ever step on a court every night in Giannis.

But those old school guys were cut from a different cloth. Glad I was able to at least catch the tail end of that era.

[rilamann]

Read on Twitter

If you have prime Giannis playing at an MVP level. You should never be THAT bad in any category.

It's nauseating that the Bucks on paper are an absolute match-up nightmare for Boston, especially after the trades we made at the deadline.

But it all probably won't matter because the Bucks are coached by Doc Rivers.