2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[Castle Black]

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Luka has actually taken his team to the Finals. When has Harden ever not shrunk in the post season, [b]let alone make it past the second round?[/b]

Harden was an ill-timed CP3 hamstring injury away from very likely winning a Championship and FMVP in 2018.

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And Luka was playing on one leg against the Thunder.

Excuses. Not interested. But interested in facts. Harden never got it done.

You literally said Harden never made it past the 2nd Round. That was not a “fact” because he’s led his team to the WCF before, and was one game away from the NBA Finals.

[canada_dry]

If you want to promote SGA to the MVP you keep talking about team achievements even though the trophy has a history of not needing the #1 or #2 spot. One could still try to maintain a minimum of integrity and admit that the OKC get away with murder on one end called "great physical defense" while SGA on the other end baits and flops like a fish for free throws. Not pleasant and not respectful to the game, even if some guys in here say superstars "have to" do that. Well Jokic doesnt, and earns the league respect i'm sure.

Also whoever watched that game and cant get himself to admit that SGA is being carried by a super talented team taht does not allow for him to be double teamed, while Jokic has to deal with the complete failure called Jamal Murray and the guy who never shows up in the 4th called MPJ is just not willing to have a real discussion.

I repeat. Jokic does a herculean carry job with this denver nuggets team. SGA is basically cruising with a low key superteam on both ends. What do you think would happen if they swapped? SGA would probably still get good numbers (even though he would suddenly be double and triple teamed like Joker) but he is not a floor raiser as Jokic. So who is more valuable of the two?

Your first statement is blatantly false and winning has historically mattered a lot to the award outside of 2 times in recent history, russ and jokic himself.

He also osnt being "promoted " to anything. Just more of a stranglehold as his rightful place as #1 in the mvp race. No need to whine about it and make false claims.

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Someone posted a history review for several decades. Winning matters as in ">.5 record" but there have been several winners from lower seeds than #1 or #2.

The truth is, there are no absolute rules or truths outside of this message board when it comes to MVP criteria.

As for the desired outcome of this race, i believe you are quite biased here, so theres little point arguing with you. Enjoy the ride, i wont lose sleep over SGA winning it this year. In the unprobable case that Joker wins (which he should) i hope you can say the same.

Thats right. Its usually been top 3. Outside of the 2 examples i mentioned just recently. Thats it.

And no. I LOVE Jokic. Im a jokic guy. I think hes historically great offensively and i always have. So miss me with the bias crap just because theres "canada" in my name. I don't think sga is better than jokic.

Im simply pushing back against the ugly true colors shown by jokic's fanbase on these threads. Especially this year. Its always everyone else's fault on the nuggets. Teammates crap. Murray is crap. Etc etc. Thats all. It has nothing to do with jokic the player. Love him. Appreciate the greatness im witnessing. Just fanboys like you is where i have a problem.

Its actually exactly the same as lebron fanboys that you have a history of calling out. I have the same issues with them historically. And kobe stans. Etc etc. Nothing against the players. Just the fanboys. Its not lost on me The fact that you dislike one and are part of the other is hypocritical.

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[Infinite Llamas]

Your first statement is blatantly false and winning has historically mattered a lot to the award outside of 2 times in recent history, russ and jokic himself.

He also osnt being "promoted " to anything. Just more of a stranglehold as his rightful place as #1 in the mvp race. No need to whine about it and make false claims.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Someone posted a history review for several decades. Winning matters as in ">.5 record" but there have been several winners from lower seeds than #1 or #2.

The truth is, there are no absolute rules or truths outside of this message board when it comes to MVP criteria.

As for the desired outcome of this race, i believe you are quite biased here, so theres little point arguing with you. Enjoy the ride, i wont lose sleep over SGA winning it this year. In the unprobable case that Joker wins (which he should) i hope you can say the same.

Thats right. Its usually been top 3. Outside of the 2 examples i mentioned just recently. Thats it.

And no. I LOVE Jokic. Im a jokic guy. I think hes historically great offensively and i always have. So miss me with the bias crap just because theres "canada" in my name. I don't think sga is better than jokic.

Im simply pushing back against the ugly true colors shown by jokic's fanbase on these threads. Especially this year. Its always everyone else's fault on the nuggets. Teammates crap. Murray is crap. Etc etc. Thats all. It has nothing to do with jokic the player. Love him. Appreciate the greatness im witnessing. Just fanboys like you is where i have a problem.

Its actually exactly the same as lebron fanboys that you have a history of calling out. I have the same issues with them historically. And kobe stans. Etc etc. Nothing against the players. Just the fanboys. Its not lost on me The fact that you dislike one and are part of the other is hypocritical.

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Would you at least concede with Jokic fans why Murray is infuriating sometimes? The fact you never know if he’s going to show up as not is extremely problematic for a team with zero depth and little margin for error. I do feel Murray get scapegoated a bit sometimes but…when he’s bad he’s a dreadful player. Braun has been the second best player on Denver for many games this year and that’s not a recipe for success. MPJ and Murray are being paid very handsomely and their results are massively inconsistent.

Jokic has moments where he isn’t playing well. Nobody is beyond criticism, but Jokic’s teammates have let him down more than the other way around.

[Big J]

Your first statement is blatantly false and winning has historically mattered a lot to the award outside of 2 times in recent history, russ and jokic himself.

He also osnt being "promoted " to anything. Just more of a stranglehold as his rightful place as #1 in the mvp race. No need to whine about it and make false claims.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Someone posted a history review for several decades. Winning matters as in ">.5 record" but there have been several winners from lower seeds than #1 or #2.

The truth is, there are no absolute rules or truths outside of this message board when it comes to MVP criteria.

As for the desired outcome of this race, i believe you are quite biased here, so theres little point arguing with you. Enjoy the ride, i wont lose sleep over SGA winning it this year. In the unprobable case that Joker wins (which he should) i hope you can say the same.

Thats right. Its usually been top 3. Outside of the 2 examples i mentioned just recently. Thats it.

And no. I LOVE Jokic. Im a jokic guy. I think hes historically great offensively and i always have. So miss me with the bias crap just because theres "canada" in my name. I don't think sga is better than jokic.

Im simply pushing back against the ugly true colors shown by jokic's fanbase on these threads. Especially this year. Its always everyone else's fault on the nuggets. Teammates crap. Murray is crap. Etc etc. Thats all. It has nothing to do with jokic the player. Love him. Appreciate the greatness im witnessing. Just fanboys like you is where i have a problem.

Its actually exactly the same as lebron fanboys that you have a history of calling out. I have the same issues with them historically. And kobe stans. Etc etc. Nothing against the players. Just the fanboys. Its not lost on me The fact that you dislike one and are part of the other is hypocritical.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

I'm with this man. Jokic fanboys are the worst because they won't concede an inch. If you call out Jokic for having poor D they will deny deny deny and just say that his defensive shortcomings are his teammates fault. Jokic himself would probably admit that he's not great on that end. He is a very humble and quiet guy. His fanboys are rabid though, and do and say things that Jokic himself would never do. They need to learn from him and just be quiet and humble.

[Infinite Llamas]

Someone posted a history review for several decades. Winning matters as in ">.5 record" but there have been several winners from lower seeds than #1 or #2.

The truth is, there are no absolute rules or truths outside of this message board when it comes to MVP criteria.

As for the desired outcome of this race, i believe you are quite biased here, so theres little point arguing with you. Enjoy the ride, i wont lose sleep over SGA winning it this year. In the unprobable case that Joker wins (which he should) i hope you can say the same.

Thats right. Its usually been top 3. Outside of the 2 examples i mentioned just recently. Thats it.

And no. I LOVE Jokic. Im a jokic guy. I think hes historically great offensively and i always have. So miss me with the bias crap just because theres "canada" in my name. I don't think sga is better than jokic.

Im simply pushing back against the ugly true colors shown by jokic's fanbase on these threads. Especially this year. Its always everyone else's fault on the nuggets. Teammates crap. Murray is crap. Etc etc. Thats all. It has nothing to do with jokic the player. Love him. Appreciate the greatness im witnessing. Just fanboys like you is where i have a problem.

Its actually exactly the same as lebron fanboys that you have a history of calling out. I have the same issues with them historically. And kobe stans. Etc etc. Nothing against the players. Just the fanboys. Its not lost on me The fact that you dislike one and are part of the other is hypocritical.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

I'm with this man. Jokic fanboys are the worst because they won't concede an inch. If you call out Jokic for having poor D they will deny deny deny and just say that his defensive shortcomings are his teammates fault. Jokic himself would probably admit that he's not great on that end. He is a very humble and quiet guy. His fanboys are rabid though, and do and say things that Jokic himself would never do. They need to learn from him and just be quiet and humble.

There is literally nobody here who treats Jokic like some infallible god. He has plenty of flaws. Often times too passive. Settling for 3’s when his shot isn’t falling. Not a great rim protector. Can over trust his teammates…

But he does so much good things that people are willing to concede the flaws. Push back happens when blanket statements like “Jokic is a terrible defender” are made. Saying Jokic is a poor rim defender is one thing but he’s an intelligent defender who does plenty of good things on that end. And of course people will become “rabid” when threads are made discrediting his assists because literally every player in the league benefits from the same thing.

Basically, his fans wouldn’t be on the defensive so much if people didn’t say so many blatantly inaccurate assessments about him.

[NO-KG-AI]

Jokic has flaws, but he’s comfortably the best player in the league. He can be responsible for problems or bad things as well, he just take less blame than other players, rightfully, because he’s better than them and does more than they do.

[Jaqua92]

Jokics entire aggression ended after the elbow injury and the team mailed it in when OKC was in the bonus 3 minutes into the third quarter

SGA will get his mvp. Regular season games don't mean anything

The refs will tighten things up, and either Denver or LA will either beat them, or they'll get pushed by those teams and will inevitably get steamrolled by Boston.

OKC is a clearly flawed team whos greatest strengths will be neutralized by the different sport playoff ball is.

[Jaqua92]

Someone posted a history review for several decades. Winning matters as in ">.5 record" but there have been several winners from lower seeds than #1 or #2.

The truth is, there are no absolute rules or truths outside of this message board when it comes to MVP criteria.

As for the desired outcome of this race, i believe you are quite biased here, so theres little point arguing with you. Enjoy the ride, i wont lose sleep over SGA winning it this year. In the unprobable case that Joker wins (which he should) i hope you can say the same.

Thats right. Its usually been top 3. Outside of the 2 examples i mentioned just recently. Thats it.

And no. I LOVE Jokic. Im a jokic guy. I think hes historically great offensively and i always have. So miss me with the bias crap just because theres "canada" in my name. I don't think sga is better than jokic.

Im simply pushing back against the ugly true colors shown by jokic's fanbase on these threads. Especially this year. Its always everyone else's fault on the nuggets. Teammates crap. Murray is crap. Etc etc. Thats all. It has nothing to do with jokic the player. Love him. Appreciate the greatness im witnessing. Just fanboys like you is where i have a problem.

Its actually exactly the same as lebron fanboys that you have a history of calling out. I have the same issues with them historically. And kobe stans. Etc etc. Nothing against the players. Just the fanboys. Its not lost on me The fact that you dislike one and are part of the other is hypocritical.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

I'm with this man. Jokic fanboys are the worst because they won't concede an inch. If you call out Jokic for having poor D they will deny deny deny and just say that his defensive shortcomings are his teammates fault. Jokic himself would probably admit that he's not great on that end. He is a very humble and quiet guy. His fanboys are rabid though, and do and say things that Jokic himself would never do. They need to learn from him and just be quiet and humble.

Meh. OKC fans seem to be the ones who need to be humble.

[Jaqua92]

Did I seriously just hear SGA is being carried by his teammates? Say what you want but SGA fans are not saying wild stuff like this about Jokic. It’s one side refusing to admit how good the other guy is in this thread.

Its really night and day between the 2 fanbases.

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Your fanbase is calling SGA comparible to peak MJ, championship favorites, best player in the world etc.

[iggymcfrack]

Did I seriously just hear SGA is being carried by his teammates? Say what you want but SGA fans are not saying wild stuff like this about Jokic. It’s one side refusing to admit how good the other guy is in this thread.

Its really night and day between the 2 fanbases.

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Your fanbase is calling SGA comparible to peak MJ, championship favorites, best player in the world etc.

I'm a Jokic fan and I'd definitely agree with the first 2. Honestly, I thought Thunder were clear championship favorites just for signing Caruso and Hartenstein, let alone having the best regular season in NBA history.

[OkcSinceSGA]

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[OkcSinceSGA]

Jokic has flaws, but he’s comfortably the best player in the league. He can be responsible for problems or bad things as well, he just take less blame than other players, rightfully, because he’s better than them and does more than they do.

No, he’s not. It’s not comfortable and you’ll see over the next few years. Jokic is WAY closer to his theoretical peak and max upside than SGA is who still doesn’t have a reliable 3 and is still growing defensively.

Literally every metric that has loved Jokic and separated him from the pack for years is failing him vs SGA right now. Why?

[NO-KG-AI]

Jokic has flaws, but he’s comfortably the best player in the league. He can be responsible for problems or bad things as well, he just take less blame than other players, rightfully, because he’s better than them and does more than they do.

No, he’s not. It’s not comfortable and you’ll see over the next few years. Jokic is WAY closer to his theoretical peak and max upside than SGA is who still doesn’t have a reliable 3 and is still growing defensively.

Literally every metric that has loved Jokic and separated him from the pack for years is failing him vs SGA right now. Why?

It’s comfortable. And easy. until SGA puts together a real resume. We’ll see if the Thunder and Shai can reach the level and production the Nuggets already did with way less talent.

Shai will probably win a deserved MVP though. Kudos.

[RRR3]

It is impossible for me to take you seriously if you say Jokic is clearly better than SGA because it’s not based on anything besides your own opinion, all the impact metrics say they’re pretty similar.

[jg77]

SGA will be considered the best player in the world if he wins the championship this year.

[CobraCommander]

SGA will be considered the best player in the world if he wins the championship this year.

if SGA or Jokic or Giannis win a ring they will be considered the greatest player on earth if they win this year...Only Tatum will have a question mark if he wins it...the rest of the top guys will be considered the greatest if they pull this off. Giannis Squad sucks and he will need to go nuclear to get past Cleveland or Boston..but he is out of the MVP running..

[CobraCommander]

Jokic has flaws, but he’s comfortably the best player in the league. He can be responsible for problems or bad things as well, he just take less blame than other players, rightfully, because he’s better than them and does more than they do.

No, he’s not. It’s not comfortable and you’ll see over the next few years. Jokic is WAY closer to his theoretical peak and max upside than SGA is who still doesn’t have a reliable 3 and is still growing defensively.

Literally every metric that has loved Jokic and separated him from the pack for years is failing him vs SGA right now. Why?

SGA is getting better...the aura is what happens when a guy goes from being great to an actual super sayian...SGA is taking that step...once you have an MVP the only thing left is a ring...because no other individual accomplishment is as big as the MVP...

[SpreeS]

I don’t know what to discuss here. Shai is clear MVP this season. Team record, stats, adv stats and +/- are in one pocket.


1st Shai +780
2nd Dort +438

[MMyhre]

Jokic has flaws, but he’s comfortably the best player in the league. He can be responsible for problems or bad things as well, he just take less blame than other players, rightfully, because he’s better than them and does more than they do.

No, he’s not. It’s not comfortable and you’ll see over the next few years. Jokic is WAY closer to his theoretical peak and max upside than SGA is who still doesn’t have a reliable 3 and is still growing defensively.

Literally every metric that has loved Jokic and separated him from the pack for years is failing him vs SGA right now. Why?

I just dont see peak LeBron losing in the 2nd round to a good but not great Wolves squad. Its interesting how little **** he gets for that, to me he is not clearly the best player imo, then you beat a young Anthony Edwards led Wolves.

[SpreeS]

Jokics entire aggression ended after the elbow injury and the team mailed it in when OKC was in the bonus 3 minutes into the third quarter

SGA will get his mvp. Regular season games don't mean anything

The refs will tighten things up, and either Denver or LA will either beat them, or they'll get pushed by those teams and will inevitably get steamrolled by Boston.

OKC is a clearly flawed team whos greatest strengths will be neutralized by the different sport playoff ball is.

How do you neutralize by far the best defence? This defence will be even way better with Chet getting into shape.

OKC is on track winning 52 wins without centers (Chet/Isaiah)
OKC is on track winning 71 wins with one of center (Chet or Isaiah)
OKC is on track winning 73 wins with both centers (Chet/Isaiah)