2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[KLEON]

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KD talking to his new coach this summer?? (On the condition of Dallas' top 5 lotto pick coming back in the trade)!

If that happens I need Marshall in that trade

[lilfishi22]

Beal for PG13?

I don't know about that one lol. Hopefully that writer is just guessing and not basing that off anything concrete.

No way. PG has an extra year on his contract, older and despite Beal being pretty damn mid, he's still more productive than PG. Also don't PG and Book have a thing?

[lilfishi22]

Give me

Coby White
Patrick Williams
Vucevic

For KD. Screw 1st rounders.

Coby White
Booker
Dunn
Patrick Williams
Vucevic

bench

Beal, Allen, Bol Bol, Richards.

At one point, there were frameworks of a trade being talked about around Nurk for Patrick Williams..and I said then I'd rather eat Nurk's deal which ends after next season than take on Patrick Williams' contract where he's owed another $72m after this one.

Ridiculously poor package for KD and I generally lean on the pessimistic side of what we could get for KD

[Slim Charless]

Trade Booker rebuild around KD and Beal

[Ghost of Kleine]

Apologies if this has already been posted and I missed it

https://www.espn.com.au/nba/insider/story/_/id/44108357/kevin-durant-trade-proposals-four-deals-suns-star



I think it's pretty clear Houston's offer is the best of the bunch here.

Dallas makes sense and it's more or less along the line of what I had previously proposed but it doesn't beat Houston's offer

I don't like that Miami 3 way with Brooklyn. I don't think Jovic, Wiggins and a couple of meh picks are a good return.

The Knicks trade straight up sucks. OG is a really good basketball player, elite defender, but he doesn't stand out as an offensive player, this is his first pretty healthy season since his early career, and I'm not betting $175m remaining on his contract that he'll continue to be healthy. And Mitch Rob's played 3 games this season because of injury. Damn good chance we end up with a massive contract for an unhealthy, unavailable player and an expiring contract.

fully agree with your assessment here man! The Houston and Dallas trades are plenty good! The Miami trade is pizz poor having us at Wiggins' salary and only getting back Jovic and the GS 25' 1st (19th pick) and will likely finish in the early to mid 20s' at best! very poor value return if not getting Ware back in the deal. instead (with the declining value of the GS 1st, the trade should instead be KD for Rozier (25 million expiring)/ Robinson (19 million expiring)/ Jovic/ Jacquez/ GS 25' 1st/ MIA 29' 1st/ MIA 31' 1st. And this would be the absolute lowest value offer I'd consider from Miami.

And the Knicks offer without any picks at all does absolutely nothing for me unless it's Bridges coming back instead of Anunoby! The package would have to instead be Bridges/ Robinson/ Achiuwa/McBride / Dadiet/Huktpori (for matching purposes within 1 million).
But I sure as heck wouldn't do this New York trade unless we're getting back Bridges instead of Anunoby.

But perhaps we could instead do this (costly but maybe worth it)???

Minnesota/Denver/ New York/ Phoenix (4 way trade);

Minnesota- Durant.

Denver- Randle $30 million expiring / Martin $8 million expiring/ 2 CLE 1sts.

New York- Michael Porter Jr.

Phoenix- Bridges/ DiVencenzo/Achiuwa/ Dillingham Jr/ McBride/ Dadiet/ DET 25 1st (20th pick from Minnesota)/ MIN 31' 1st.

**The money matches dollar for dollar from New York getting MPJr and us getting back Bridges/ Achiuwa/ McBride and Dadiet. I'm following this trade up with Dillingham/ O'neale/ Dadiet/ DET 1st (20th pick) to San Antonio for Sochan/ ATL 25' 1st (15th pick) and UTA 26' 2nd/ POR 26' 2nd. Then I'm trading Allen to Orlando for Bidatze/ Josephs' 3 million expiring.

After these 3 trades, we've traded KD/ Allen/ O'neale for:

Mikal Bridges/ Bidatze/Achiuwa/ Sochan/ DiVincenzo/ McBride/ 15th pick/ MIN 31' 1st/ two 26' 2nds. And in this draft we'd also have the 15th pick/ 29th pick/ 54th pick. I'm trading the 15th pick to Brooklyn for the 22nd and 23rd picks.
22- Sergio de Larrea. 6'7 PG
23- Danny Wolf. 7'0 PF/C
29- Jo'an Beringer. 6'11 (7'5 wingspan) center.
54- Kob Brea. 6'7 SG.

Booker/ Beal/ Bridges/ Bol/ Bidatze.
McBride/ DiVincenzo/ Dunn/ Achiuwa/ Richards.
Larrea/ Brea/ Sochan/ Wolf/ Ighodaro.

G League two-way contracts (development).
1- Colin Gillespie.
2- Jo'an Beringer.
3- Trevon Brazile.

I've seen you post about MPJr a number of times but I can't see them moving off MPJ. He's put together b2b healthy seasons, he's got 2 years left on his deal and there just isn't anyone who can step up and replace his scoring imo. Unlike moving on from Bruce Brown when they kind of already had a young guy in Braun you could reasonable see take on that role. You might also be surprised to know the Nuggets aren't in the 2nd apron this season or the next and that's even with Murray's new extension kicking at $46m next season. His contract also didn't hit the super max category because he didn't make all-NBA unlike someone like Trae who is on the same deal but is already on $43m and will finish at almost $50m whereas MPJ's will max out at just under $41m. They just aren't looking to trade their championship core imo and while you could MAYBE make an argument if they brought in say two guys who end up being more productive and add more depth than one MPJ, Randle is the anti-thesis of Denver basketball.

The Nuggets are still just chugging along, fuelled by, without a doubt in my mind, Jokic's best MVP season so far.

You're probably right, man, that they won't look to salary dump him even for the opportunity to create more cap space to possibly add someone in 26' free agency. And with getting two picks in the deal as sweeteners. This trade premise was based upon the reports of them looking to trade MPJr around the trade deadline earlier in the season for Lavine or another high-end piece.

And I can't remember if the conjecture (at the time) was around them not liking his contract salary/terms as the reasoning behind the consideration in moving him. But that was partially my thought process around the 30 million expiring h'd provide and the 2 1sts as value sweeteners. But yes, you're absolutely right on both counts that they're currently good under the cap apron, especially with the cap increases too. AND they're also competing well.

Now I'm not suggesting they trade their championship core per se as I'm only suggesting that singular player. But I do agree with your logic that Randle wouldn't be an ideal replacement option for them to provide floor spacing/ scoring. I'll just have to explore other floor spacing replacement options to replace any outgoing KD at his position?

[thamadkant]

Suns franchise is doomed if they keep Booker. Doomed.

No they aren't . He just needs to fall to his place as a 2nd or even 3rd option and give him a PG!!!!!! See our team when we had a leader / PG in CP3. That was our best basketball! We also had 2-3 young hungry players who hustled, and accepted their role.

TBH if we didn't do the CP3 trade or the Ayton trade but still got KD.

CP3
Booker
Craig / Toumani Camara
KD
Ayton

That team would have competed

If you say so.

But we saw the KD and Booker combo with Cp3 and Ayton. It was a isolation mid-range game where KD and Booker took all the shots, forcing CP3 more off ball and reduced Ayton to 7 FGA. Got handily beaten by Nuggets in the series.

[Ghost of Kleine]

To piggyback off the Randle Premise a bit, I wonder if Chicago would do a Randle/ CLE 27' 1st for Ball/Collins trade? Considering they have a ton of guards already, and a floor spacing center in Vucevic that'd complement Randles' inside power game fairly well? And we would be a long-term commitment either, so they could pivot if they chose to?

Or else maybe to Portland (along with Milicic or Martins' 8 million expiring and two 1sts) for Jrami Grants' contract and Camara. I say this because Portland has been really trying to get off of Grants' money (viewed as 2nd worst value contract behind Beals') and reduce their cap line significantly. The two 1sts would primarily be for Camaras' escalating value.


Or maybe New York would take him back (along with 2 1sts) to create cap space/ flexibility and get some draft assets back in a deal for Bridges? I mean sure, he's been good and they gave up a bunch of picks for him. But they have a logjam at SF and not great depth at PF. And the potential cap reduction might be very appealing to them too.

Or lastly, maybe really look at Utah, putting together a package around Randle (30 million)/ Milicic (8 million expiring) and 2-3 1sts for Markannen?? IF Pincus' reports are correct that Utah might be looking to get off of Markannen's long-term money seeing as they're still rebuilding and nowhere near competitive! Then you load up on defensive players around a big 3 core of Booker/ Markannen/ Beal (plus whatever vet pieces you might get back from a KD trade? For example, IF KD goes to Dallas, then maybe a lineup of:

Booker/ Beal/ Marshall/ Markannen/ Gafford.
Paul/ Thompson/ Washington/ Bol Bol/ Richards.
Gillespie / FA / Dunn / DRAFT / Plumlee.

[Slim Charless]

Suns franchise is doomed if they keep Booker. Doomed.

No they aren't . He just needs to fall to his place as a 2nd or even 3rd option and give him a PG!!!!!! See our team when we had a leader / PG in CP3. That was our best basketball! We also had 2-3 young hungry players who hustled, and accepted their role.

TBH if we didn't do the CP3 trade or the Ayton trade but still got KD.

CP3
Booker
Craig / Toumani Camara
KD
Ayton

That team would have competed

If you say so.

But we saw the KD and Booker combo with Cp3 and Ayton. It was a isolation mid-range game where KD and Booker took all the shots, forcing CP3 more off ball and reduced Ayton to 7 FGA. Got handily beaten by Nuggets in the series.

Yup.

Moronty messed him up. Ayton was done here.

[lilfishi22]

fully agree with your assessment here man! The Houston and Dallas trades are plenty good! The Miami trade is pizz poor having us at Wiggins' salary and only getting back Jovic and the GS 25' 1st (19th pick) and will likely finish in the early to mid 20s' at best! very poor value return if not getting Ware back in the deal. instead (with the declining value of the GS 1st, the trade should instead be KD for Rozier (25 million expiring)/ Robinson (19 million expiring)/ Jovic/ Jacquez/ GS 25' 1st/ MIA 29' 1st/ MIA 31' 1st. And this would be the absolute lowest value offer I'd consider from Miami.

And the Knicks offer without any picks at all does absolutely nothing for me unless it's Bridges coming back instead of Anunoby! The package would have to instead be Bridges/ Robinson/ Achiuwa/McBride / Dadiet/Huktpori (for matching purposes within 1 million).
But I sure as heck wouldn't do this New York trade unless we're getting back Bridges instead of Anunoby.

But perhaps we could instead do this (costly but maybe worth it)???

Minnesota/Denver/ New York/ Phoenix (4 way trade);

Minnesota- Durant.

Denver- Randle $30 million expiring / Martin $8 million expiring/ 2 CLE 1sts.

New York- Michael Porter Jr.

Phoenix- Bridges/ DiVencenzo/Achiuwa/ Dillingham Jr/ McBride/ Dadiet/ DET 25 1st (20th pick from Minnesota)/ MIN 31' 1st.

**The money matches dollar for dollar from New York getting MPJr and us getting back Bridges/ Achiuwa/ McBride and Dadiet. I'm following this trade up with Dillingham/ O'neale/ Dadiet/ DET 1st (20th pick) to San Antonio for Sochan/ ATL 25' 1st (15th pick) and UTA 26' 2nd/ POR 26' 2nd. Then I'm trading Allen to Orlando for Bidatze/ Josephs' 3 million expiring.

After these 3 trades, we've traded KD/ Allen/ O'neale for:

Mikal Bridges/ Bidatze/Achiuwa/ Sochan/ DiVincenzo/ McBride/ 15th pick/ MIN 31' 1st/ two 26' 2nds. And in this draft we'd also have the 15th pick/ 29th pick/ 54th pick. I'm trading the 15th pick to Brooklyn for the 22nd and 23rd picks.
22- Sergio de Larrea. 6'7 PG
23- Danny Wolf. 7'0 PF/C
29- Jo'an Beringer. 6'11 (7'5 wingspan) center.
54- Kob Brea. 6'7 SG.

Booker/ Beal/ Bridges/ Bol/ Bidatze.
McBride/ DiVincenzo/ Dunn/ Achiuwa/ Richards.
Larrea/ Brea/ Sochan/ Wolf/ Ighodaro.

G League two-way contracts (development).
1- Colin Gillespie.
2- Jo'an Beringer.
3- Trevon Brazile.

I've seen you post about MPJr a number of times but I can't see them moving off MPJ. He's put together b2b healthy seasons, he's got 2 years left on his deal and there just isn't anyone who can step up and replace his scoring imo. Unlike moving on from Bruce Brown when they kind of already had a young guy in Braun you could reasonable see take on that role. You might also be surprised to know the Nuggets aren't in the 2nd apron this season or the next and that's even with Murray's new extension kicking at $46m next season. His contract also didn't hit the super max category because he didn't make all-NBA unlike someone like Trae who is on the same deal but is already on $43m and will finish at almost $50m whereas MPJ's will max out at just under $41m. They just aren't looking to trade their championship core imo and while you could MAYBE make an argument if they brought in say two guys who end up being more productive and add more depth than one MPJ, Randle is the anti-thesis of Denver basketball.

The Nuggets are still just chugging along, fuelled by, without a doubt in my mind, Jokic's best MVP season so far.

You're probably right, man, that they won't look to salary dump him even for the opportunity to create more cap space to possibly add someone in 26' free agency. And with getting two picks in the deal as sweeteners. This trade premise was based upon the reports of them looking to trade MPJr around the trade deadline earlier in the season for Lavine or another high-end piece.

And I can't remember if the conjecture (at the time) was around them not liking his contract salary/terms as the reasoning behind the consideration in moving him. But that was partially my thought process around the 30 million expiring h'd provide and the 2 1sts as value sweeteners. But yes, you're absolutely right on both counts that they're currently good under the cap apron, especially with the cap increases too. AND they're also competing well.

Now I'm not suggesting they trade their championship core per se as I'm only suggesting that singular player. But I do agree with your logic that Randle wouldn't be an ideal replacement option for them to provide floor spacing/ scoring. I'll just have to explore other floor spacing replacement options to replace any outgoing KD at his position?

If they move MPJ, it'll almost certainly be for a talent upgrade at a position that fits their style. Although I don't love the idea of swapping MPJ for Lavine (I think some Nuggets fan do), it at least makes some sense from a positional need standpoint. Randle just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. He takes up a lot of space around the basket which is where Jokic needs space to do his thing. He hasn't shot the 3ball well in like 5 years and given how much salaries they have tied up with Jokic, Murray and Gordon, they aren't going to be a serious player in the 26 free agent market even if they let Randle expire.

[Hitachi77]

Can’t see how KD would get traded to the Mavs. Kyrie very likely isn’t playing next year.

It would have to be a fringe contender which the Mavs are not. OKC is a possibility if they lose before the conference finals again.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I've seen you post about MPJr a number of times but I can't see them moving off MPJ. He's put together b2b healthy seasons, he's got 2 years left on his deal and there just isn't anyone who can step up and replace his scoring imo. Unlike moving on from Bruce Brown when they kind of already had a young guy in Braun you could reasonable see take on that role. You might also be surprised to know the Nuggets aren't in the 2nd apron this season or the next and that's even with Murray's new extension kicking at $46m next season. His contract also didn't hit the super max category because he didn't make all-NBA unlike someone like Trae who is on the same deal but is already on $43m and will finish at almost $50m whereas MPJ's will max out at just under $41m. They just aren't looking to trade their championship core imo and while you could MAYBE make an argument if they brought in say two guys who end up being more productive and add more depth than one MPJ, Randle is the anti-thesis of Denver basketball.

The Nuggets are still just chugging along, fuelled by, without a doubt in my mind, Jokic's best MVP season so far.

You're probably right, man, that they won't look to salary dump him even for the opportunity to create more cap space to possibly add someone in 26' free agency. And with getting two picks in the deal as sweeteners. This trade premise was based upon the reports of them looking to trade MPJr around the trade deadline earlier in the season for Lavine or another high-end piece.

And I can't remember if the conjecture (at the time) was around them not liking his contract salary/terms as the reasoning behind the consideration in moving him. But that was partially my thought process around the 30 million expiring h'd provide and the 2 1sts as value sweeteners. But yes, you're absolutely right on both counts that they're currently good under the cap apron, especially with the cap increases too. AND they're also competing well.

Now I'm not suggesting they trade their championship core per se as I'm only suggesting that singular player. But I do agree with your logic that Randle wouldn't be an ideal replacement option for them to provide floor spacing/ scoring. I'll just have to explore other floor spacing replacement options to replace any outgoing KD at his position?

If they move MPJ, it'll almost certainly be for a talent upgrade at a position that fits their style. Although I don't love the idea of swapping MPJ for Lavine (I think some Nuggets fan do), it at least makes some sense from a positional need standpoint. Randle just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. He takes up a lot of space around the basket which is where Jokic needs space to do his thing. He hasn't shot the 3ball well in like 5 years and given how much salaries they have tied up with Jokic, Murray and Gordon, they aren't going to be a serious player in the 26 free agent market even if they let Randle expire.

I get what you're saying about poor fit, but again as I stated in my previous post, my thought process on this wasn't as a long term option, but rather a mechanism for cap reduction and getting two 1sts in the process as sweeteners that they could obviously use in other trades or simply because they only have 4 picks left that they can't use because of the Stepien rules.

Now 30 million may not make them major players in 26' free agency, but they could still do 1-2 things around that and those picks.

1- While that 30 million doesn't give them huge cap flexibility for 26, it still would give them upwards of $ 39 million (up to right under the 2nd apron) to add a key player or pieces in free agency.

And a few such players likely available in that range (unrestricted free agency) would be:

McCollum, Middleton, Harris, Simon's, Smart, Bridges, Robinson, Powell, Barnes, Rui Hachimura, Huerter, DFinney Smith, Coby White, Simone Fontecchio, Kelly Oubre, etc.

So obviously they could find value in being able to upgrade a singular position or possibly multiple more cost effective positions?

2- They could look to trade Randles' expiring around the deadline with those picks for players, etc. In trades? Perhaps they look to add another SG/ Small Forward to make up for losing KCP? Or a point Guard like Smart to replace what they lost in Brown? The point being that ita possible to utilize Randle in multiple ways to address needs and interests.

Potters a great shooter at 20 points a game. With size and good efficiency. But for his contract, maybe just maybe they look to break that up into multiple positions? Or a singular two way upgrade as MPJr is not a good defender despite his offensive value?

Ultimately it only " doesn't make any sense whatsoever" if you're choosing to look at it from a very limited range/ POV. Most teams look beyond one singular possibility in order to remain adaptable to current trends.

[Hitachi77]

On another note, our remaining schedule is absurd, but we may benefit from teams having nothing to play for at some point. For example the Celtics and Cavs are basically locked into their seed, less so the Cavs since they are still playing for the #1 overall seed.

I thought the Clippers would climb a bit after Kawhi comes back, but that hasn’t happened at all. If we do get the 10, it very likely will be the Kings and Clippers, which might be the best case scenario since the Twolves own us since the playoffs last year (excluding the game we choked away this year).

[lilfishi22]

Can’t see how KD would get traded to the Mavs. Kyrie very likely isn’t playing next year.

It would have to be a fringe contender which the Mavs are not. OKC is a possibility if they lose before the conference finals again.

I think the concept is that the Mavs/Nico can't afford to have a team that isn't a playoff team after they traded away their superstar for a guy who's always injured but a damn good 2-way guy already in his early 30s. They are, for all intents and purposes, all in. Having AD and Klay as basically the two main dudes isn't going to make them very competitive but if you put in someone more reliable AND you have Klay and AD, I think that's a team that could be a play-in, until Kyrie gets back. 9 to 12 months is the usual recovery time for ACL tears so if we're being conservative, Kyrie could be back basically a little over the halfway mark of next season and potentially be in a position to make a run if they already had KD. Without KD, it's possible he's returning to a 20-25 win team.

[JRoy]

To piggyback off the Randle Premise a bit, I wonder if Chicago would do a Randle/ CLE 27' 1st for Ball/Collins trade? Considering they have a ton of guards already, and a floor spacing center in Vucevic that'd complement Randles' inside power game fairly well? And we would be a long-term commitment either, so they could pivot if they chose to?

Or else maybe to Portland (along with Milicic or Martins' 8 million expiring and two 1sts) for Jrami Grants' contract and Camara. I say this because Portland has been really trying to get off of Grants' money (viewed as 2nd worst value contract behind Beals') and reduce their cap line significantly. The two 1sts would primarily be for Camaras' escalating value.


Or maybe New York would take him back (along with 2 1sts) to create cap space/ flexibility and get some draft assets back in a deal for Bridges? I mean sure, he's been good and they gave up a bunch of picks for him. But they have a logjam at SF and not great depth at PF. And the potential cap reduction might be very appealing to them too.

Or lastly, maybe really look at Utah, putting together a package around Randle (30 million)/ Milicic (8 million expiring) and 2-3 1sts for Markannen?? IF Pincus' reports are correct that Utah might be looking to get off of Markannen's long-term money seeing as they're still rebuilding and nowhere near competitive! Then you load up on defensive players around a big 3 core of Booker/ Markannen/ Beal (plus whatever vet pieces you might get back from a KD trade? For example, IF KD goes to Dallas, then maybe a lineup of:

Booker/ Beal/ Marshall/ Markannen/ Gafford.
Paul/ Thompson/ Washington/ Bol Bol/ Richards.
Gillespie / FA / Dunn / DRAFT / Plumlee.

POR sees Camara as a long term piece.

Dumping Grant would be great but better to hope he can improve his value back to somewhere near neutral.

[lilfishi22]

You're probably right, man, that they won't look to salary dump him even for the opportunity to create more cap space to possibly add someone in 26' free agency. And with getting two picks in the deal as sweeteners. This trade premise was based upon the reports of them looking to trade MPJr around the trade deadline earlier in the season for Lavine or another high-end piece.

And I can't remember if the conjecture (at the time) was around them not liking his contract salary/terms as the reasoning behind the consideration in moving him. But that was partially my thought process around the 30 million expiring h'd provide and the 2 1sts as value sweeteners. But yes, you're absolutely right on both counts that they're currently good under the cap apron, especially with the cap increases too. AND they're also competing well.

Now I'm not suggesting they trade their championship core per se as I'm only suggesting that singular player. But I do agree with your logic that Randle wouldn't be an ideal replacement option for them to provide floor spacing/ scoring. I'll just have to explore other floor spacing replacement options to replace any outgoing KD at his position?

If they move MPJ, it'll almost certainly be for a talent upgrade at a position that fits their style. Although I don't love the idea of swapping MPJ for Lavine (I think some Nuggets fan do), it at least makes some sense from a positional need standpoint. Randle just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. He takes up a lot of space around the basket which is where Jokic needs space to do his thing. He hasn't shot the 3ball well in like 5 years and given how much salaries they have tied up with Jokic, Murray and Gordon, they aren't going to be a serious player in the 26 free agent market even if they let Randle expire.

I get what you're saying about poor fit, but again as I stated in my previous post, my thought process on this wasn't as a long term option, but rather a mechanism for cap reduction and getting two 1sts in the process as sweeteners that they could obviously use in other trades or simply because they only have 4 picks left that they can't use because of the Stepien rules.

Now 30 million may not make them major players in 26' free agency, but they could still do 1-2 things around that and those picks.

1- While that 30 million doesn't give them huge cap flexibility for 26, it still would give them upwards of $ 39 million (up to right under the 2nd apron) to add a key player or pieces in free agency.

And a few such players likely available in that range (unrestricted free agency) would be:

McCollum, Middleton, Harris, Simon's, Smart, Bridges, Robinson, Powell, Barnes, Rui Hachimura, Huerter, DFinney Smith, Coby White, Simone Fontecchio, Kelly Oubre, etc.

So obviously they could find value in being able to upgrade a singular position or possibly multiple more cost effective positions?

2- They could look to trade Randles' expiring around the deadline with those picks for players, etc. In trades? Perhaps they look to add another SG/ Small Forward to make up for losing KCP? Or a point Guard like Smart to replace what they lost in Brown? The point being that ita possible to utilize Randle in multiple ways to address needs and interests.

Potters a great shooter at 20 points a game. With size and good efficiency. But for his contract, maybe just maybe they look to break that up into multiple positions? Or a singular two way upgrade as MPJr is not a good defender despite his offensive value?

Ultimately it only " doesn't make any sense whatsoever" if you're choosing to look at it from a very limited range/ POV. Most teams look beyond one singular possibility in order to remain adaptable to current trends.

When you're over the cap, you're over the cap, you can't play in free agency with no cap space. Doesn't matter how far under the apron you are, you just can't go out and sign someone in free agency into cap space when you don't have any. You COULD trade for a player or a package of players that brings back more salary (up to 125% +100k) or they COULD use exceptions to make use of their space under the aprons but that's a $13-14m player at most. I think they'd probably rather have MPJ than any of the players you've listed.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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For those consistently devaluing Dunn for his offensive struggles when defense (which he was specifically drafted for) is our biggest monumental issue.

[Hitachi77]

Can’t see how KD would get traded to the Mavs. Kyrie very likely isn’t playing next year.

It would have to be a fringe contender which the Mavs are not. OKC is a possibility if they lose before the conference finals again.

I think the concept is that the Mavs/Nico can't afford to have a team that isn't a playoff team after they traded away their superstar for a guy who's always injured but a damn good 2-way guy already in his early 30s. They are, for all intents and purposes, all in. Having AD and Klay as basically the two main dudes isn't going to make them very competitive but if you put in someone more reliable AND you have Klay and AD, I think that's a team that could be a play-in, until Kyrie gets back. 9 to 12 months is the usual recovery time for ACL tears so if we're being conservative, Kyrie could be back basically a little over the halfway mark of next season and potentially be in a position to make a run if they already had KD. Without KD, it's possible he's returning to a 20-25 win team.

Yea that’s an interesting point. Just can’t see KD wanting that as his final chance to win a title. I would expect there to be better options.

[lilfishi22]

Can’t see how KD would get traded to the Mavs. Kyrie very likely isn’t playing next year.

It would have to be a fringe contender which the Mavs are not. OKC is a possibility if they lose before the conference finals again.

I think the concept is that the Mavs/Nico can't afford to have a team that isn't a playoff team after they traded away their superstar for a guy who's always injured but a damn good 2-way guy already in his early 30s. They are, for all intents and purposes, all in. Having AD and Klay as basically the two main dudes isn't going to make them very competitive but if you put in someone more reliable AND you have Klay and AD, I think that's a team that could be a play-in, until Kyrie gets back. 9 to 12 months is the usual recovery time for ACL tears so if we're being conservative, Kyrie could be back basically a little over the halfway mark of next season and potentially be in a position to make a run if they already had KD. Without KD, it's possible he's returning to a 20-25 win team.

Yea that’s an interesting point. Just can’t see KD wanting that as his final chance to win a title. I would expect there to be better options.

I think there's good reason to believe he'll prioritise going to a team that gives him the best opportunity to win again before he retires. But within that group, there is potentially scope to also add in a couple of wildcards that includes teams he's connected to for reasons outside of pure competitiveness e.g Dallas with Kyrie or Minny with Ant. So while Minny (and less so Dallas) might not be an obvious contender even with KD, I think playing with people he wants to play with is a consideration you couldn't put past him. He's done that before.

Another consideration might be that OKC don't want to mess with their core by breaking it up to bring in KD.

[Ghost of Kleine]

If they move MPJ, it'll almost certainly be for a talent upgrade at a position that fits their style. Although I don't love the idea of swapping MPJ for Lavine (I think some Nuggets fan do), it at least makes some sense from a positional need standpoint. Randle just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. He takes up a lot of space around the basket which is where Jokic needs space to do his thing. He hasn't shot the 3ball well in like 5 years and given how much salaries they have tied up with Jokic, Murray and Gordon, they aren't going to be a serious player in the 26 free agent market even if they let Randle expire.

I get what you're saying about poor fit, but again as I stated in my previous post, my thought process on this wasn't as a long term option, but rather a mechanism for cap reduction and getting two 1sts in the process as sweeteners that they could obviously use in other trades or simply because they only have 4 picks left that they can't use because of the Stepien rules.

Now 30 million may not make them major players in 26' free agency, but they could still do 1-2 things around that and those picks.

1- While that 30 million doesn't give them huge cap flexibility for 26, it still would give them upwards of $ 39 million (up to right under the 2nd apron) to add a key player or pieces in free agency.

And a few such players likely available in that range (unrestricted free agency) would be:

McCollum, Middleton, Harris, Simon's, Smart, Bridges, Robinson, Powell, Barnes, Rui Hachimura, Huerter, DFinney Smith, Coby White, Simone Fontecchio, Kelly Oubre, etc.

So obviously they could find value in being able to upgrade a singular position or possibly multiple more cost effective positions?

2- They could look to trade Randles' expiring around the deadline with those picks for players, etc. In trades? Perhaps they look to add another SG/ Small Forward to make up for losing KCP? Or a point Guard like Smart to replace what they lost in Brown? The point being that ita possible to utilize Randle in multiple ways to address needs and interests.

Potters a great shooter at 20 points a game. With size and good efficiency. But for his contract, maybe just maybe they look to break that up into multiple positions? Or a singular two way upgrade as MPJr is not a good defender despite his offensive value?

Ultimately it only " doesn't make any sense whatsoever" if you're choosing to look at it from a very limited range/ POV. Most teams look beyond one singular possibility in order to remain adaptable to current trends.

When you're over the cap, you're over the cap, you can't play in free agency with no cap space. Doesn't matter how far under the apron you are, you just can't go out and sign someone in free agency into cap space when you don't have any. You COULD trade for a player or a package of players that brings back more salary (up to 125% +100k) or they COULD use exceptions to make use of their space under the aprons but that's a $13-14m player at most. I think they'd probably rather have MPJ than any of the players you've listed.

Sure they're over the cap line (by about 70 million) BUT................with the cap increases changing the Luxury tax to around 187.9 million and the 2nd apron raising to 208 million, Randles' expiring could put them up to $39 million under the 2nd apron. So Denver could still trade for another player making 39 million or less, or multiple pieces in a trade that meets their needs/ interests, up to 39 million.

For example, IF they really wanted to add defense after losing KCP and Brown, they could explore trading for Marcus Smart, maybe Bridges (IF New York really wants to get more cap reduction)? Or they could look to trade Randles' expiring to Orlando for KCP/ Harris 7 million expiring back? Or maybe to Dallas for Thompson/ Martin or Marshall perhaps? since they currently have no legit frontcourt size or post presence? But without any long-term commitment, also helping their cap situation too.

I mean who really knows what players they might target? I get it's your opinion that they'd prefer MPJr over another player or addressing multiple depth positions possibly. And you're absolutely entitled to your opinions as we all are. But truthfully none of us know or can accurately speak to their plans/ intentions under this new CBA. And also objectively taking into consideration............ however they finish out this season, could also make reassessing and pivoting to a different or unexpected strategy absolutely viable. Making some of these suggested moves could also help set them up to get closer to actual cap flexibility in moving MPJr's contract for cumulative salaries with shorter or possibly unguaranteed years, etc. And maybe that could be a partial goal the Nuggeeets front office might see value in going forward man?

[Ghost of Kleine]

I think the concept is that the Mavs/Nico can't afford to have a team that isn't a playoff team after they traded away their superstar for a guy who's always injured but a damn good 2-way guy already in his early 30s. They are, for all intents and purposes, all in. Having AD and Klay as basically the two main dudes isn't going to make them very competitive but if you put in someone more reliable AND you have Klay and AD, I think that's a team that could be a play-in, until Kyrie gets back. 9 to 12 months is the usual recovery time for ACL tears so if we're being conservative, Kyrie could be back basically a little over the halfway mark of next season and potentially be in a position to make a run if they already had KD. Without KD, it's possible he's returning to a 20-25 win team.

Yea that’s an interesting point. Just can’t see KD wanting that as his final chance to win a title. I would expect there to be better options.

I think there's good reason to believe he'll prioritise going to a team that gives him the best opportunity to win again before he retires. But within that group, there is potentially scope to also add in a couple of wildcards that includes teams he's connected to for reasons outside of pure competitiveness e.g Dallas with Kyrie or Minny with Ant. So while Minny (and less so Dallas) might not be an obvious contender even with KD, I think playing with people he wants to play with is a consideration you couldn't put past him. He's done that before.

Another consideration might be that OKC don't want to mess with their core by breaking it up to bring in KD.

Wait!! So now you're actually considering the possibility that a player in KDs' position could choose a destination based upon actual "connections" for reasons outside of competitiveness?? but not too long ago, you were vehemently arguing against such a possibility in our Washington discussion. So just to be clear here, man, are you now finally acknowledging that a player, even a great player, may actually not be restricted to only one dynamic in how they make decisions and that multiple factors might be legitimate in influencing outcome. Acknowledging the very real human dynamic at play in situations too.