2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[SpurNani]

Thats right. Its usually been top 3. Outside of the 2 examples i mentioned just recently. Thats it.

And no. I LOVE Jokic. Im a jokic guy. I think hes historically great offensively and i always have. So miss me with the bias crap just because theres "canada" in my name. I don't think sga is better than jokic.

Im simply pushing back against the ugly true colors shown by jokic's fanbase on these threads. Especially this year. Its always everyone else's fault on the nuggets. Teammates crap. Murray is crap. Etc etc. Thats all. It has nothing to do with jokic the player. Love him. Appreciate the greatness im witnessing. Just fanboys like you is where i have a problem.

Its actually exactly the same as lebron fanboys that you have a history of calling out. I have the same issues with them historically. And kobe stans. Etc etc. Nothing against the players. Just the fanboys. Its not lost on me The fact that you dislike one and are part of the other is hypocritical.

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I'm with this man. Jokic fanboys are the worst because they won't concede an inch. If you call out Jokic for having poor D they will deny deny deny and just say that his defensive shortcomings are his teammates fault. Jokic himself would probably admit that he's not great on that end. He is a very humble and quiet guy. His fanboys are rabid though, and do and say things that Jokic himself would never do. They need to learn from him and just be quiet and humble.

There is literally nobody here who treats Jokic like some infallible god.

Yeah, i stopped reading here. The “Jokic can do no wrong” “all Jokics teammates suck” crowd are out in full force and in every comment section. I’ve literally seen threads that say Jokic is the best player in Nba history over Lebron and Jordan.

Jokic is a tremendous player but he often gets used as a tool for other more heinous toxic conversations that go beyond ball.

[SpreeS]

You guys need to back to earth with Jokic statements. I could agree that he is the best player at the moment in NBA and has all time crazy good stats...but impact, especially in PO mode, nowhere close to alltime greats players. Yes we could agree that his team is very far from perfect, but a lot great players were in this kind of situations.

19-24 Jokic career PS on +1.08nrtg (3038min) on/off +3.83nrtg
06-10 Lebron career PS on +4.24nrtg (3089min) on/off +16.35nrtg
04-10 Wade career PS on +3.30nrtg (2703min) on/off +12.06nrtg
13/14/22/23 Curry career PS on +4.49 (2050min) on/off +14.48nrtg
20-24 Doncic career PS on +1.42nrtg (1947min) on/off +7.72nrtg

[Dadouv47]

I hate these MVP threads but just want to point out 1) the SGA/Embiiid comparison is stupid because the Sixers were 3rd in the East and Nuggets first in the West while OKC is having one of the best regular season performance of all time; 2) OKC is an all time great defense but our offense without SGA is not that good and the main question mark for us to reach the finals/win a championship is to have that second scorer. Remove SGA from our starting line up and we are not a good offensive team.

We all know that Jokic is the best player in the world but Shai/Jokic are having similar regular season performance and the team performance is obviously a factor. Lebron should have won 10+ MVPs if we should reward the best player in the world everytime.

[SpurNani]

Remove SGA from our starting line up and we are not a good offensive team.

You would never know it from the negativity, but Murray and JDubb are actually averaging the exact same PPG as the second scoring option on their respective teams.

But only Murray gets hate for not helping Jokic enough.

[MoneyTalks41890]

SGA leads Jokic in both estimated and actual EPM.

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

[Dadouv47]

Remove SGA from our starting line up and we are not a good offensive team.

You would never know it from the negativity, but Murray and JDubb are actually averaging the exact same PPG as the second scoring option on their respective teams.

But only Murray gets hate for not helping Jokic enough.

probably because Murray was better 2-3 years ago and had a bad couple of seasons while JDub is very young.
JDub inability to step up as second option was the main reason OKC lost to Dallas last season in the POs (I'm a JDub fan but he still need to improve a lot)

[Jaqua92]

I'm with this man. Jokic fanboys are the worst because they won't concede an inch. If you call out Jokic for having poor D they will deny deny deny and just say that his defensive shortcomings are his teammates fault. Jokic himself would probably admit that he's not great on that end. He is a very humble and quiet guy. His fanboys are rabid though, and do and say things that Jokic himself would never do. They need to learn from him and just be quiet and humble.

There is literally nobody here who treats Jokic like some infallible god.

Yeah, i stopped reading here. The “Jokic can do no wrong” “all Jokics teammates suck” crowd are out in full force and in every comment section. I’ve literally seen threads that say Jokic is the best player in Nba history over Lebron and Jordan.

Jokic is a tremendous player but he often gets used as a tool for other more heinous toxic conversations that go beyond ball.

Don't think there's a single thread calling him the goat.

On the contrary we have people in this thread defending SGA comparisons to 91 MJ

[Jaqua92]

Remove SGA from our starting line up and we are not a good offensive team.

You would never know it from the negativity, but Murray and JDubb are actually averaging the exact same PPG as the second scoring option on their respective teams.

But only Murray gets hate for not helping Jokic enough.

Efficiency matters. JDub is more effecient, and leads in most metrics

[MoneyTalks41890]

I mean looking at that game, Nuggets had no one that could guard SGA. Best his guy many many times, and there’s no back up rim protection.

Read on Twitter

[slick_watts]

Remove SGA from our starting line up and we are not a good offensive team.

You would never know it from the negativity, but Murray and JDubb are actually averaging the exact same PPG as the second scoring option on their respective teams.

But only Murray gets hate for not helping Jokic enough.

Efficiency matters. JDub is more effecient, and leads in most metrics

it takes five seconds to actually look up their scoring efficiencies you know. take a breath before posting nonsense.

[Ron Swanson]

I mean looking at that game, Nuggets had no one that could guard SGA. Best his guy many many times, and there’s no back up rim protection.

Read on Twitter

Whoa whoa, pointing out glaring examples of Jokic's traffic cone P&R and interior defense doesn't fly around here. I was told by D-RAPTOR that Jokic has actually been an elite defender for years.

*sorry, couldn't help myself*

[lethalizer]

Remove SGA from our starting line up and we are not a good offensive team.

You would never know it from the negativity, but Murray and JDubb are actually averaging the exact same PPG as the second scoring option on their respective teams.

But only Murray gets hate for not helping Jokic enough.

Efficiency matters. JDub is more effecient, and leads in most metrics

For the 2024-2025 season;

True Shooting: JDub is at 56.8%, Murray is at 58.4%.

EFG: JDub is at 53.2%, Murray is at 54.4%

Once again, groundbreaking analysis.

[RRR3]

Remove SGA from our starting line up and we are not a good offensive team.

You would never know it from the negativity, but Murray and JDubb are actually averaging the exact same PPG as the second scoring option on their respective teams.

But only Murray gets hate for not helping Jokic enough.

Efficiency matters. JDub is more effecient, and leads in most metrics

He's not more efficient, stop making stuff up to try and boost your hero, you've literally resorted to lying now.

Murray 58.4 TS%
J-Dub 56.8 TS%

[RRR3]

I guess it makes sense Jaqua thinks Jokic is "easily having a better season than SGA" considering he just makes up stats based on what makes him feel best. In reality, they are neck and neck in terms of impact data.

[SpurNani]

You would never know it from the negativity, but Murray and JDubb are actually averaging the exact same PPG as the second scoring option on their respective teams.

But only Murray gets hate for not helping Jokic enough.

Efficiency matters. JDub is more effecient, and leads in most metrics

it takes five seconds to actually look up their scoring efficiencies you know. take a breath before posting nonsense.

Now the argument is efficiency. Is Murray so much less efficient than JDubb that it validates the constant cries of JokEgg huggers to tear down any and every Denver player to prop up Jokic even more?

They are different archetype of players but Murray is what 47,40, and 88 on the season? And he’s a proven player in the playoffs and goes up to nearly 25ppg.

Im not arguing who id rather have, its just the negative discourse surrounding one guy is way worse when they both have to be better as #2’s.

[Ruma85]

I mean looking at that game, Nuggets had no one that could guard SGA. Best his guy many many times, and there’s no back up rim protection.

Read on Twitter

I actually think they defending decently, SGA took over 30 shots.

[falcolombardi]

You would never know it from the negativity, but Murray and JDubb are actually averaging the exact same PPG as the second scoring option on their respective teams.

But only Murray gets hate for not helping Jokic enough.

Efficiency matters. JDub is more effecient, and leads in most metrics

He's not more efficient, stop making stuff up to try and boost your hero, you've literally resorted to lying now.

Murray 58.4 TS%
J-Dub 56.8 TS%

Man i agree okc has a better supporting cast, but lets be real

If denver had jdub instead of murray the "jokic has no help" narrative would actually get more intense, not less (and i say this while agreeing jalen is better currently due to defense)

[falcolombardi]

SGA leads Jokic in both estimated and actual EPM.

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Alex caruso +4.3 D-EPM

Holy **** **** lmao, i love caruso

[lessthanjake]

Remove SGA from our starting line up and we are not a good offensive team.

You would never know it from the negativity, but Murray and JDubb are actually averaging the exact same PPG as the second scoring option on their respective teams.

But only Murray gets hate for not helping Jokic enough.

There is a very huge difference between Jalen Williams and Jamal Murray on defense. Jalen Williams is a significant positive on defense, while Murray is a negative. I think Murray is probably a little bit better as an offensive player, but if you think they’re at all similar as offensive players, then Jalen Williams is definitely significantly better overall due to defense.

[Infinite Llamas]

Even if we are saying that Williams and Murray equal themselves out, there’s no universe where MPJ would have a bigger impact as a #3 than Chet.