Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random

[HadAnEffectHere]

I wouldn't pay him close to either of those numbers.

Yeah, he's probably a 5/100 to 5/125 guy, but the Jazz keep resting him to intentionally lose while harming his market value so they're going to wildly overpay him to make it up.

[ReggiesKnicks]

I wouldn't pay him close to either of those numbers.

I agree, I also don't know who wants to pay a limited center without DPOY defense that long.

That being said, 30 Million AAV is the value of recent Centers on title contenders (Hartenstein and then the Allen extension). Gobert signed for more and is clearly better than Hartenstein (35 AAV) but also was owed extra value due to him declining his player option.

I would never go over 30 Million AAV for Walker Kessler. There just isn't a big enough difference between him and some rookie contract centers you can get in the mid-1st (Kessler himself, Ware, Lively, Clingan, Duren, Williams over the past few drafts).

That's the biggest thing--it seems like Big Men have been figured out by a most teams in terms of scouting and development where, unless you have the following, just re-roll for 4 years of a rookie contract.

Elite offensive anchor (Jokic, Embiid, Sengun, Sabonis, Towns)
Elite defensive anchor (Gobert, Allen, JJJ)
Elite spacing with another above average skill (B Lopez, Turner, ect)

Nobody wants to be paying Poeltl or Claxton, no offense to those teams. Hell, even we are going to be hesitant giving Turner 30 Million AAV.

[oldncreaky]

They have some other easy paths to clear salary to make room.

But I'm not sure Naz should be a target unless they move on from Stewart.*

*

Spoiler:

They should move on from Stewart, but not saying this where any Pistons fans can see. I know he's beloved.

Detroit 2025-26

Estimated salary cap $154.6M

10 players under contract for $127.4M

The only player I think they'd dump is Fontecchio at $8.3M

Most fans think they'll keep the rights to Beasley who has been far too good to lose. His cap hold is $7.2M. The rest can be renounced. No FRP.

Add in holds for minimum roster spots, and Detroit has around $25M in cap space.

-----

Reid might be a nice target for Detroit. However, he might be expensive to pry away, and I'm not sure he'd be the first target. I've long thought that if IND wants to move on from Obi Toppin for financial reasons (if IND keeps Turner they are well into the tax next year) Obi would be a great fit in terms of play/role/salary on DET

Does this accout for Cade making all NBA? It will eat additional ~7M.

Good point. No, it doesn't -- and he well could

That leaves about about the $10M if they keep Fontecchio, $18M if they dump him, and $25M if they move Stewart (doubt it)

[jayjaysee]

Just a random bad idea.

What does Vassell cost for Dallas?

Was playing with Gafford/Klay based salary? Calling that neutral value?

But don’t know what else goes into it? That as a standalone deal makes a little sense if you think Klay would be happy with Fox/Wemby? Or maybe you find a third team for Klay?

But then Gafford, Klay, Keldon, “picks” to Phoenix, KD to SA, Vassell to Dallas

Don’t think Vassell is very valuable on his deal after the season he is having, but contract is flat at least, locked up for most the pick debt.. and I think he can bounce back as a scorer and Dallas should take the chance to find a scorer..

[Astaluego]

Just a random bad idea.

What does Vassell cost for Dallas?

Was playing with Gafford/Klay based salary? Calling that neutral value?

But don’t know what else goes into it? That as a standalone deal makes a little sense if you think Klay would be happy with Fox/Wemby? Or maybe you find a third team for Klay?

But then Gafford, Klay, Keldon, “picks” to Phoenix, KD to SA, Vassell to Dallas

Don’t think Vassell is very valuable on his deal after the season he is having, but contract is flat at least, locked up for most the pick debt.. and I think he can bounce back as a scorer and Dallas should take the chance to find a scorer..

I think we're good at the 2 with Christie at least being a better defender...Vassell is too small and skinny to play the 3 and I'm not sure he's an upgrade.. we desperately need a playmaker/scorer..I'd personally like him to have some size so he can play alongside KI when he comes back..My favorite for skills/theoretical price would be DDR,even looking at stats (I haven't seen a single game this year)
RJ Barrett is averaging over 5.6 assists per game and over 21 ppg..we could use that!!..

fun fact (both DDR and Barrett average more assists than KI) as for Klay,who would probably be part of any future trade,I like the Magic for him..his shooting/Gravity would be a boon for Orlando..and they have the Isaak contract that makes +- the same and is basically expiring

[jayjaysee]

Just a random bad idea.

What does Vassell cost for Dallas?

Was playing with Gafford/Klay based salary? Calling that neutral value?

But don’t know what else goes into it? That as a standalone deal makes a little sense if you think Klay would be happy with Fox/Wemby? Or maybe you find a third team for Klay?

But then Gafford, Klay, Keldon, “picks” to Phoenix, KD to SA, Vassell to Dallas

Don’t think Vassell is very valuable on his deal after the season he is having, but contract is flat at least, locked up for most the pick debt.. and I think he can bounce back as a scorer and Dallas should take the chance to find a scorer..

I think we're good at the 2 with Christie at least being a better defender...Vassell is too small and skinny to play the 3 and I'm not sure he's an upgrade.. we desperately need a playmaker/scorer..I'd personally like him to have some size so he can play alongside KI when he comes back..My favorite for skills/theoretical price would be DDR,even looking at stats (I haven't seen a single game this year)
RJ Barrett is averaging over 5.6 assists per game and over 21 ppg..we could use that!!..

fun fact (both DDR and Barrett average more assists than KI) as for Klay,who would probably be part of any future trade,I like the Magic for him..his shooting/Gravity would be a boon for Orlando..and they have the Isaak contract that makes +- the same and is basically expiring

I think Vassell/Kai can start together just fine. But I agree Vassell/Christie are too small for real minutes at the 3.

I like Vassell as he’s locked up long term, but Demar and RJ both make some sense.

RJ should be shopped pretty strongly this offseason, but don’t know what Dallas really offers. I think the salary is Gafford/Klay. I’d throw in seconds that Dallas doesn’t actually have, but wouldn’t want to throw in a first. No idea what Toronto asks for.

Sac.. I think they should want PJ. I’d try to get a well protected first instead of seconds. Even if you want to make it PJ/either Martin or Marshall/Powell as the salary to get a first instead of PJ/Klay.

On Toronto, I think if Dallas does nothing big.. Ingram becomes a possibility next January if it isn’t working out in Toronto.

[Astaluego]

Just a random bad idea.

What does Vassell cost for Dallas?

Was playing with Gafford/Klay based salary? Calling that neutral value?

But don’t know what else goes into it? That as a standalone deal makes a little sense if you think Klay would be happy with Fox/Wemby? Or maybe you find a third team for Klay?

But then Gafford, Klay, Keldon, “picks” to Phoenix, KD to SA, Vassell to Dallas

Don’t think Vassell is very valuable on his deal after the season he is having, but contract is flat at least, locked up for most the pick debt.. and I think he can bounce back as a scorer and Dallas should take the chance to find a scorer..

I think we're good at the 2 with Christie at least being a better defender...Vassell is too small and skinny to play the 3 and I'm not sure he's an upgrade.. we desperately need a playmaker/scorer..I'd personally like him to have some size so he can play alongside KI when he comes back..My favorite for skills/theoretical price would be DDR,even looking at stats (I haven't seen a single game this year)
RJ Barrett is averaging over 5.6 assists per game and over 21 ppg..we could use that!!..

fun fact (both DDR and Barrett average more assists than KI) as for Klay,who would probably be part of any future trade,I like the Magic for him..his shooting/Gravity would be a boon for Orlando..and they have the Isaak contract that makes +- the same and is basically expiring

I think Vassell/Kai can start together just fine. But I agree Vassell/Christie are too small for real minutes at the 3.

I like Vassell as he’s locked up long term, but Demar and RJ both make some sense.

RJ should be shopped pretty strongly this offseason, but don’t know what Dallas really offers. I think the salary is Gafford/Klay. I’d throw in seconds that Dallas doesn’t actually have, but wouldn’t want to throw in a first. No idea what Toronto asks for.

Sac.. I think they should want PJ. I’d try to get a well protected first instead of seconds. Even if you want to make it PJ/either Martin or Marshall/Powell as the salary to get a first instead of PJ/Klay.

On Toronto, I think if Dallas does nothing big.. Ingram becomes a possibility next January if it isn’t working out in Toronto.

I really like Ingram, I wanted him at the deadline, although it would be a huge risk depending on the health of KI/Ingram/AD/Lively... that's another reason why I'm interested in DDR, the guy is an iron man, he's always in good shape and available...
I'd send PJ (especially if AD is going to play the 4)+Klay to the Kings for DDR+ ..
Then Gafford+Powell+Hardy+O-Max+2 SRP for Vucevic/Lonzo?..

Vuc/Lively/K.Jones
AD/Marshall/K.Edwards
DDR/Martín/FA
Christie/KI /Draft
Lonzo/Exum?/B.Williams

[jayjaysee]

I think we're good at the 2 with Christie at least being a better defender...Vassell is too small and skinny to play the 3 and I'm not sure he's an upgrade.. we desperately need a playmaker/scorer..I'd personally like him to have some size so he can play alongside KI when he comes back..My favorite for skills/theoretical price would be DDR,even looking at stats (I haven't seen a single game this year)
RJ Barrett is averaging over 5.6 assists per game and over 21 ppg..we could use that!!..

fun fact (both DDR and Barrett average more assists than KI) as for Klay,who would probably be part of any future trade,I like the Magic for him..his shooting/Gravity would be a boon for Orlando..and they have the Isaak contract that makes +- the same and is basically expiring

I think Vassell/Kai can start together just fine. But I agree Vassell/Christie are too small for real minutes at the 3.

I like Vassell as he’s locked up long term, but Demar and RJ both make some sense.

RJ should be shopped pretty strongly this offseason, but don’t know what Dallas really offers. I think the salary is Gafford/Klay. I’d throw in seconds that Dallas doesn’t actually have, but wouldn’t want to throw in a first. No idea what Toronto asks for.

Sac.. I think they should want PJ. I’d try to get a well protected first instead of seconds. Even if you want to make it PJ/either Martin or Marshall/Powell as the salary to get a first instead of PJ/Klay.

On Toronto, I think if Dallas does nothing big.. Ingram becomes a possibility next January if it isn’t working out in Toronto.

I really like Ingram, I wanted him at the deadline, although it would be a huge risk depending on the health of KI/Ingram/AD/Lively... that's another reason why I'm interested in DDR, the guy is an iron man, he's always in good shape and available...
I'd send PJ (especially if AD is going to play the 4)+Klay to the Kings for DDR+ ..
Then Gafford+Powell+Hardy+O-Max+2 SRP for Vucevic/Lonzo?..

Vuc/Lively/K.Jones
AD/Marshall/K.Edwards
DDR/Martín/FA
Christie/KI /Draft
Lonzo/Exum?/B.Williams

I don’t know. I’d rather target guys the same age/younger than AD/Kyrie unless it’s actually a star..

But I understand the targets. But don’t think you trade for both DDR and Vuc?

You need offense, but do you need that much offense? Don’t think you need Demar at all once Kyrie is healthy if you bring in Lonzo and Vooch.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Jazz have indicated to local reporters that they plan to intentionally throw games all of next year as well most likely, even if they get Cooper Flagg. Likely by resting Kessler and Markkanen even when healthy if playing other bad teams.

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2025/03/06/utah-jazz-teardown-rebuild-timeline/

[Astaluego]

Jazz have indicated to local reporters that they plan to intentionally throw games all of next year as well most likely, even if they get Cooper Flagg. Likely by resting Kessler and Markkanen even when healthy if playing other bad teams.

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2025/03/06/utah-jazz-teardown-rebuild-timeline/

With your permission, I'll copy the link and move it to the Jazz thread I created.

[Astaluego]

Barrett is averaging +20 ppg and +5 assists...the Mavs could use that...how would the trade go? Hardy/Powell/Gafford match salary, what would he have to add?

[Scoot McGroot]

Jazz have indicated to local reporters that they plan to intentionally throw games all of next year as well most likely, even if they get Cooper Flagg. Likely by resting Kessler and Markkanen even when healthy if playing other bad teams.

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2025/03/06/utah-jazz-teardown-rebuild-timeline/

Think they have to extend Kessler before he agrees to sit out games while healthy. It would not be in his interest to sit out while still waiting to prove his free agency value.

Also, it’s really tough to openly tank multiple seasons in a row, especially when you have enough talent to steal some games all year.

[zimpy27]

Jazz have indicated to local reporters that they plan to intentionally throw games all of next year as well most likely, even if they get Cooper Flagg. Likely by resting Kessler and Markkanen even when healthy if playing other bad teams.

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2025/03/06/utah-jazz-teardown-rebuild-timeline/

Think they have to extend Kessler before he agrees to sit out games while healthy. It would not be in his interest to sit out while still waiting to prove his free agency value.

Also, it’s really tough to openly tank multiple seasons in a row, especially when you have enough talent to steal some games all year.

Ainge blew up the team in the 2022 offseason, this is the 3rd season of their rebuild and they doing it again next season too. Brutal.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Jazz have indicated to local reporters that they plan to intentionally throw games all of next year as well most likely, even if they get Cooper Flagg. Likely by resting Kessler and Markkanen even when healthy if playing other bad teams.

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2025/03/06/utah-jazz-teardown-rebuild-timeline/

Think they have to extend Kessler before he agrees to sit out games while healthy. It would not be in his interest to sit out while still waiting to prove his free agency value.

Also, it’s really tough to openly tank multiple seasons in a row, especially when you have enough talent to steal some games all year.

He has agreed to sit a bunch of games when healthy this year, but I assume they have a handshake agreement on a 5/175 extension.

[Texas Chuck]

I assume they don't have said handshake.
I assume the Jazz have not decided today to completely and shamelessly tank next year by holding out healthy players.

[HadAnEffectHere]

I assume they don't have said handshake.
I assume the Jazz have not decided today to completely and shamelessly tank next year by holding out healthy players.

Bro, have you seen the Jazz's injury report recently.

Jazz vs. Blazers (Feb 24): Walker Kessler - OUT (Rest)
Jazz vs. Pelicans (March 2nd): Walker Kessler - OUT (Rest)
Jazz vs. Wizards (March 5th): Walker Kessler - OUT (Rest)
Jazz vs. 76ers (March 9th): Walker Kessler - OUT (Rest)

Ainge and Ryan Smith want AJ so bad that they spent tons of money starting a fake school in Utah for AJ to go to so they could funnel money to him before giving him even more money to go to BYU.

[Godaddycurse]

yea the games out due to rest for a 23 y.o. healthy C is kind of ridiculous. He probably agreed to an extension otherwise i dont see how/why he would go along with this when he should be playing his heart out to earn a 2nd contract

[Mavrelous]

Jazz have indicated to local reporters that they plan to intentionally throw games all of next year as well most likely, even if they get Cooper Flagg. Likely by resting Kessler and Markkanen even when healthy if playing other bad teams.

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2025/03/06/utah-jazz-teardown-rebuild-timeline/

Think they have to extend Kessler before he agrees to sit out games while healthy. It would not be in his interest to sit out while still waiting to prove his free agency value.

Also, it’s really tough to openly tank multiple seasons in a row, especially when you have enough talent to steal some games all year.

He has agreed to sit a bunch of games when healthy this year, but I assume they have a handshake agreement on a 5/175 extension.

175??? Are you just speculating or there are actual reports?

[jayjaysee]

Teams tank..

This is the first season Utah has actually committed to it. They should’ve actually tanked starting in 22-23, but at least they are here now.

Toronto is tanking with Barnes. NOP with Zion.. Brooklyn with “Cam and Claxton”…

Most teams have to rebuild this way at some point..

[Texas Chuck]

I assume they don't have said handshake.
I assume the Jazz have not decided today to completely and shamelessly tank next year by holding out healthy players.

Bro, have you seen the Jazz's injury report recently.

Jazz vs. Blazers (Feb 24): Walker Kessler - OUT (Rest)
Jazz vs. Pelicans (March 2nd): Walker Kessler - OUT (Rest)
Jazz vs. Wizards (March 5th): Walker Kessler - OUT (Rest)
Jazz vs. 76ers (March 9th): Walker Kessler - OUT (Rest)

Ainge and Ryan Smith want AJ so bad that they spent tons of money starting a fake school in Utah for AJ to go to so they could funnel money to him before giving him even more money to go to BYU.

Yes teams tank at the end of the year every year. My little Mavs would be doing this except they don't actually have any healthy players so they can play hard and still lose.

But I disagree the decision has been made today with Kessler and Markannen's full blessing to have them barely play next year so the Jazz can tank (JAzz have lost plenty with both playing fwiw). And I strongly disagree the Jazz have a handshake agreement to badly overpay Kessler in place today.

I think Utah is smarter than that and those players are more competitive than that. But I get fans get ideas in their heads and I shouldn't bother here lol.