2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
·
1h
The Phoenix Suns could receive four first-round picks and a rising star in a potential trade package for Devin Booker, per
@DuaneRankin


“Sources informed The Republic the Suns could probably get four first round picks for Booker and a rising star in his third or fourth year.”

[sunsbg]

Booker needs to go. Not being able to make the play-in with KD still balling(at least on offense) is a disgrace for a player in his prime. If we are getting HOU pick this year these loses are not so bad.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Booker needs to go. Not being able to make the play-in with KD still balling(at least on offense) is a disgrace for a player in his prime. If we are getting HOU pick this year, these losses are not so bad.

Agreed! It's not that I don't love him as a player or respect his loyalty to our franchise. But once we trade and try to reload around Booker, the reality will begin to set in for many that even with Booker we're not going to be legitimately better due to the decisions made repeatedly emptying our resources and the unfortunate fact that although Booker is a great scorer and definitely a star player. He's just not the type of star player that can lead a team to a championship.

At best, even if our front office is remotely capable of making some really shrewd moves this summer (which they haven't done yet) we'd still be only slightly better at best but still not highly competitive. And Booker will continue aging and his value will only continue to depreciate as he inches closer to 30 years old. So we'd be losing value while treadmilling into mediocrity and also wasting Booker's best years too in the process. And the more his value depreciates, the longer and more painful our inevitable rebuild will be.

Also, it's only a matter of time before Booker gets too frustrated in our situation and asks out. Also a sunk value outcome! Our rebuild is inevitable, and the longer our front office deludes themselves to this reality, the worse our rebuild will become.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Many here, including Slim and myself, had been trying to tell people that Monty Williams was the problem. how many potential really good or impactful players had to be lost due to this as well as James Jones' gross ineptitude, and Sarvers' overall parsimonious azzhattery?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Gerald Bourguet
@GeraldBourguet
The Suns are 29th in defensive rating since Ryan Dunn got phased out of the rotation. We talked about why his lack of minutes is so infuriating on the latest
@PHNX_Suns
pod

WATCH: https://youtube.com/live/8Cgw8QgHE2A
DOWNLOAD: http://phnx-suns-podcast.simplecast.com

[Ghost of Kleine]

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For now.......

[sunsbg]

Weird as Ty Jerome looks like someone a father will want for his daughters to marry. I don't know what is Bud's problem with Dunn. He used to play him against those shorter PGs like Brunson and would've been of help against Morant. Royce is quite average defender.

[sunsbg]

For now.......

Hope he's still worth a young promising player + 4 picks in midseason when we suck again.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Anyone remember a summer or two ago when I was suggesting bringing him back as our backup PG off the bench before he was scooped up by Cleveland as an unrestricted free agent? But really, what do us fans know huh?...lol

[Ghost of Kleine]

Weird as Ty Jerome looks like someone a father will want for his daughters to marry. I don't know what is Bud's problem with Dunn. He used to play him against those shorter PGs like Brunson and would've been of help against Morant. Royce is quite average defender.

We'll I mean we know that he's surely no Shamet!!

So maybe that's just it??

[Sunsdeuce]

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NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
·
1h
The Phoenix Suns could receive four first-round picks and a rising star in a potential trade package for Devin Booker, per
@DuaneRankin


“Sources informed The Republic the Suns could probably get four first round picks for Booker and a rising star in his third or fourth year.”

DO IT NOW! Come on Ishbia, at least try to be a competent for 5 minutes.

[SunsRback4Good]

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NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
·
1h
The Phoenix Suns could receive four first-round picks and a rising star in a potential trade package for Devin Booker, per
@DuaneRankin


“Sources informed The Republic the Suns could probably get four first round picks for Booker and a rising star in his third or fourth year.”

DO IT NOW! Come on Ishbia, at least try to be a competent for 5 minutes.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I have to think the thought process by our front office would be to give a Booker reload premise 1 more season ( this next one) if they're successful in returning value in key pieces and assets for KD.

But if the returns are underwhelming, then they might pivot much sooner than planned. But it probably all depends upon what they can get done this summer to determine whether they do a quick reload or accept a blow it up scenario/ rebuild.

[MrMiyagi]

We're going to end up with Jalen Green and some **** 1sts from Houston........

[thamadkant]

POR still doesn’t have a real first option yet. Not sure Sharpe will get there. Hopefully can make it happen on draft day.

Every team has had its share of players that could not play at a high level.

Having a player that can, but will not, that’s even worse.

Been watching heaps of Blazers games due to Ayton, Scoot, Deni and now Camara.... and it's true that Blazers lack a sure fire go to scorer I don't think Sharpe is it.. at best he seems to be a less flamboyant JR Smith at the very best.

Blazers also have looked very good during that stretch when Ayton wanted to prove something. He works well with Scoot and Deni and Camara. Since his injury Blazers have lost like 10 games or so.

I think Blazers need to keep the Deni, Ayton, Scoot, Camara core and trade Simons, Grant for a sure-fire young star, maybe someone like a Zion Williamson and hope he's healthy and then give Scoot the keys. Sharpe then focuses on the bench microwave scorer along with Clingan who has looked good as a rebounder and big body inside. Then hope to get another star in the draft. Billups may not be the long term coach but if he is, then Blazers should aim for a deep team in contrary to the other teams, like the Suns, who are very shallow and awful.

Ayton has played well during that great run, but his motivation runs hot and cold. He cannot be relied upon. He needs to go, along with Simons and Grant. I don’t think Grant can be moved based on his awful season on top of that awful contract. I think Aytons contract expires and POR wishes him happy trails.

Simons will hopefully make his way to a team that can maximize his talents and mask his trash defense.

The Blazers look much better with Ayton when he's getting the ball given to him. The stats and winning percentage shows it. Just need a leader to guide Scoot and Blazers would be a playoff team with potential to be like Thunder once Scoot can become better at being a leader. He has the defensive capability to be Jrue Holiday level there.


But if you think otherwise that's fine.

[thamadkant]

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For now.......

Sounds like a Suns employee who is following Ishiba's instructions was the source of that information.

Other GMs will low ball and never offer value upfront.... likely Booker would fetch 4 first rounders but with protections and a young player who can be a good starter.... so Pistons with their picks and Aisar Thompson and maybe salary filler is my ideal target.

Rockets can still aim for Durant with FVV, Suns 2027 and 2029 pick however.

[lilfishi22]

Again, all of these are merely your subjective views ( opinions). And I'm fully comprehending what your position is too. You're suggesting that just because " anything is possible " in a discussion, that doesn't in equity make it probable............ right? So on the basis of your individual subjective view, you see it as being possible but highly unlikely as you yourself don't or wouldn't see the value in the premise, so you attribute your individual interpretation of the value as being the standard for assessment.

Only problem with that man is that your individual views may not align as a universal or even consensus metric of evaluation for other individuals' in vastly different situations than yours or mine, obviously, man. This is because although you have your specific individual views on values or priorities in how you may make determinations or assessments situationally, people do not operate on a hive mentality or universal singular metric of value assessment. And the scalable (ranging outcomes in various scenarios for one person being vastly different than others, also impacting the potency of influence on those situational decisions.

So what I'm getting at here is that what might be paramount importance or a priority to you contextually could very easily be vastly different than how someone else views the same variables/ conditions in that situation contextually. How these scalable variables affect or influence your decisions may have entirely different effects on someone in KDs' position than a normal everyday person like you or I.

Your position:
KD wouldn't ever choose Washington regardless of connections, etc, because he still wants to compete at the highest level for Championships for his few remaining years left. Does that sound about right? Also, just because something is feasibly possible does mean it's at all likely?

My counterargument:
KD has already established himself as a historic all-time great in the game. An established Top 5 HOF talent, Top 10 all-time HOF great, 2-time NBA champion, with numerous other achievements to his legacy already secured. So maybe, just maybe how you subjectively view his priorities at this stage of his career do not actually align with how he views such situations for himself. Maybe he's content with his achievements and just wants to "play ball" and enjoy basketball for his few years left in this league. Maybe he isn't as hellbent on winning more championships as you may choose to believe and would rather spend his time around his friends, family or in a good environment playing in front of people who he loves (close friends or family, etc) or good friends in gnral in a situation wherein he'd b appreciated in his remaining years. Is this really such an unreasonable consideration to digest?

To me, I consider the human element in such decisions (especially at later stages of someone's career) as still being important factors in determinate outcomes. Now you can disagree with these perspectives as that's your distinct prerogative man. But ultimately my point is that I'm arguing the possibility of position over your probability position. Both can be valid positions, beyond subjective views influenced by subjective value metrics. What I'm saying in all this back n forth is that I'm not dismissing your position despite you being vehemently dismissive of my position on possibilities and probabilities being scalable (ranging from either spectrum of highly unlikely to very likely) based on numerous indeterminate theoretical variables we're not privy to that could better substantiate either position.

You're speaking from your own personal perspectives on how you yourself would interpret and assess the promised situation. I'm making suggestions on the possibilities for consideration that could add credence or legitimacy in this situation being reasonably possible/ probable under the specific conditions I've mentioned for consideration. My goal here is simply to get you in this premise to open yourself up to other variables and possibilities that could factor into such outcomes. And maybe not look at things in such a limited or restricted lens. for a moment, you were acknowledging a wider range of possibilities to consider, man. And that's growth to be encouraged.


So I'm not claiming or disputing your position as illegitimate at all as both are equitably possible depending upon the conditions and "equity of outcome" for how KD might view such a premise in his current situation, not either of ours. But to abjectly dismiss my position while emphatically promoting yours when both are theoretical absent of any evidence to oppositional perspective is just creating a Hitchens' razor looping position. Lastly, LOL! no, I don't use chatGPT for anything man. As I'm clearly not a techy type person and don't fully understand the application of all the things people are using today. Although I do use Grammarly, to help with spelling, grammar (obviously doesn't help keep things concise though) Lol. but I did have a lot of sugar last night, so maybe it's a bit of that perhaps?

My argument is that KD would not seriously consider Washington. I did not say it was impossible he'd go there. I did not say it was impossible a potential Washington thought bubble couldn't float by his mind. I said it would not be a serious consideration given where they are and how far they are from building an attractive proposition for him to seriously consider.

So I'm not claiming or disputing your position as illegitimate at all as both are equitably possible depending upon the conditions and "equity of outcome" for how KD might view such a premise in his current situation, not either of ours. But to abjectly dismiss my position while emphatically promoting yours when both are theoretical absent of any evidence to oppositional perspective is just creating a Hitchens' razor looping position.

From my perspective, KD’s whole career has been about competing at the highest level, aligning with others who are also at the top, and chasing championships. His body of work shows a consistent pattern of striving for greatness and trying to win at the highest level, so it makes far more sense that he'd stay in that kind of environment. My view is grounded in that career trajectory.

On the flip side, your argument suggests that suddenly, out of nowhere, KD’s going to make this drastic pivot to the worst team in the league just because he's from there. That’s why our arguments don’t have equal weight. While both scenarios might be theoretically possible, they’re not equally likely based on everything KD’s done up until now.

I will agree, I can't rule out Washington just as I can't rule out the Jackjumpers or some team in the CBA. That's as far as I can get with agreeing with your argument.

I get what you're trying to say in that your using patterns throughout a large sample to assess probability standards. But again we're not dealing in absolutes here. And you can't really say just because his past indicates one behavior pattern or tendency, that pattern is immutable or eternally constant.

Also, absent of being legitimately psychically gifted (...are you???) You're not reading his mind or can accurately interpret how he chooses situations in the future because the variables/ factors are not constants. So at best, we're both still only speculating from.our own opinions. Equity of outcome in varying situations being factors too.

As we know of people and situational dynamics, people's views can of course change over time and with accumulation of experience or in accomplishing goals.

In a very simple metaphor, it's like going to a buffet when really hungry and eating till your full. Now in the beginning, you may be insatiable hungry and have one top prioritized goal of quenching that overwhelming sense of hunger.

But as you continue to eat and fill up on food, that same hunger dissipates and is no longer the biggest priority. Now that the overwhelming or obsessive factor has been addressed, it obviously becomes much less of a factor.

In other areas of life, apply thos metaphor to the premise around KD? Because even if you build your position in the premise of KD being very competitive forever, I've already pointed out that (aside from singular familial and close friends connections) I spoke to the chance of KD raising up his hometown franchise to prominence and competitive viability.

What bigger competitive challenge and statement of his unmatched greatness could their be towards adding to his overall legacy??
But even if you can't envision/ consider
that angle, I will repeat in correlation to my hunger metaphor above.

In that in a competitive prism, he's again already established an incredible HOF historically dominant career status and cemented himself as an all time historically great legendary player in his craft.

So maybe it's possible that he no longer has that same overwhelming or insatiable hunger to pursue that same dynamic because he's obviously achieved the highest levels in a multitude of areas to his craft! Consider these count numbers points to your positional statements man:

He likely wants to chase a championship? ............He's already achieved that twice!

- What he wants to prove he's an all time great in basketball history?
....................He's already achieved that too!

- But maybe he wants to add to his legacy though?
............. What better way to do that than to lift his hometown franchise from obscurity to relevance competitively while also adding to his personal accolades in the process as the main franchise guy! And also be revered further in his own hometown in front of family and friends? That would cement his legacy forever as the savior of the franchise.

- Wait but he may now prioritize playing with some of his basketball friends?
........Ok, they have plenty of assets to trade for some of whoever that might he or again have mechanisms to create cap flexibility to sign whatever players (within reason) that he may choose.

- But he may likely prefer to play on a playoff team though with foundational pieces?
.............Again, refer to the above premise of assets and mechanisms to competitively pivot rather quickly. And also consider Sarr, Coulilaby, and what if they win the Cooper Flagg sweepstakes too? Would those not be considered foundational pieces?

Also, the premise of the east being a much easier pathway to even getting into the playoffs than in the west, as evidenced year after year by records/ standings.

You speak to KD making sudden drastic changes, but again, neither of us being mind readers and absent KD coming out publicly and saying what his plans might be, no one knows If a decision we as fans may consider drastic on the surface may he viewed through the same lens as we do.

We don't know if he might have been quietly considering such premises and weighing the contextual variables toward such a premise? Has KD or other big name players made surprising decisions that people didn't see coming or didn't expect in the past?

Again the human element of unpredictability always a factor. And once you've pretty much achieved everything in your career, etc. Priorities can drastically change, even if people on the outside of such situations aren't expecting it or can't rationalize it.

You can exercise your assessments around probabilities and that's practical and fine. But again, even then the scalability of probabilities is ranging because celebrities, professional athletes and famous people in general are not confined or restricted by the same situational conditions or variables as we all are. So there thought process and value system for equity of outcome can he vastly different to our interpretations or considerations.

Basically what makes sense to us through a more limited scope of consideration and factors wouldn't necessarily apply/ affect their process of selection in such decisions. This makes those probabilities significantly more feasible/ likely as they not confined by the same degrees of consequences as the rest of us.

And I never dealt with absolutes. I've always maintained possibilities are possibilities. But just because a possibility is a possibility, doesn't make likelihoods equivalent. I don't need to read his mind to think it's super unlikely he'll retire tomorrow and join some team on the other side of the world even if that's a possibility. And just because past actions doesn't guarantee future outcomes, you can't just throw it entirely all away and suggest a very unlikely outcome is therefore equivalent to a more likely outcome based on past trends and behaviours. And human behaviours, for the vast majority of the population, is one of the more predictable things in life. Someone having done something for 20 years, will likely continue to do something within a similar scope and not just suddenly do a 180. It's not impossible they could do something completely different but if you're betting on the most likely outcome, that would not be what you'd put money on.

Quite simply, it's far more likely KD will continue to look for a spot where he can have a legitimate shot at winning rather than go to the worst team in the league to start building from virtually nothing. This is not what he will absolute do or absolutely won't do. This is what he is likely to do. You've spent al this time arguing a pretty unlikely scenario based on a random suggestion Melo made. We both agree it's possible but we both have to agree it's very unlikely right?

[KdoubleDees23]

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Anyone remember a summer or two ago when I was suggesting bringing him back as our backup PG off the bench before he was scooped up by Cleveland as an unrestricted free agent? But really, what do us fans know huh?...lol

Ty Jerome is not good . Why you pushing some false information as he would do anything for this team

[MrMiyagi]

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Anyone remember a summer or two ago when I was suggesting bringing him back as our backup PG off the bench before he was scooped up by Cleveland as an unrestricted free agent? But really, what do us fans know huh?...lol

Ty Jerome is not good . Why you pushing some false information as he would do anything for this team

36 unwatchable