2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion

[cupcakesnake]

Kinda weird having offensive fouls drawn AND charges taken. Unless they’re initially double-counting charges because reasons.

I think you can look at the numbers and see they aren't double counting. There are other kinds of offensive fouls that aren't charges. Illegal screens, using the off-arm to shove etc.

Dyson Daniels apparently has 0 charges but has drawn 9 offensive fouls.

[tmorgan]

Kinda weird having offensive fouls drawn AND charges taken. Unless they’re initially double-counting charges because reasons.

I think you can look at the numbers and see they aren't double counting. There are other kinds of offensive fouls that aren't charges. Illegal screens, using the off-arm to shove etc.

Dyson Daniels apparently has 0 charges but has drawn 9 offensive fouls.

I doubt that, given that charges are <= offensive fouls drawn in every single instance listed.

[yellowknifer]

Read on Twitter

Van Fleet’s level up on defense has been near miraculous, one of the better in recent memory. Brook Lopez is probably the starkest player type change I’ve seen, going from an elite post-scoring sieve to a stretching, elite anchor but Van Fleet gets an honorable mention. Udoka brow beat him from a liability to a plus, that’s one of the most challenging things to do as a coach.
No other surprises on the list though. Dyson’s hands, anticipation, feet, and tenacity are all crazy. To call Camara a Pippen Lite isn’t a stretch, and Amen’s ceiling is still being designed on the blueprint. Derrick jones and Kris Dunn are as unheralded as winning impact players can get with so much inefficiency and fluff from the far more celebrated Harden and Kawhi.

He was a huge plus defender when he came off the bench for the Raptors. So it’s not totally out of character. He just got himself too involved in the offense and Nurse let him get away with spending more energy there. He looks he tried to do similar in Houston but Udoka wouldn’t let him.

[TheZachAttack]

I think McDaniels should get some love -- at least for all defense. He is one of the best PoA defenders in the league, can guard 1-5, and he's also one of the best back line/help defending wings in the league.

[cupcakesnake]

I think McDaniels should get some love -- at least for all defense. He is one of the best PoA defenders in the league, can guard 1-5, and he's also one of the best back line/help defending wings in the league.

He started the season not as sharp on defense, just like he did on offense. Jaden quickly got back to form though and doing his normal thing. He should- by default- always be in the all-defense discussion. We have some shiny new toys this year on the wing (Amen, Dyson, Camara all breaking out), but I think those guys should be measured against incumbents like McDaniels, OG, Herb Jones, Dillon Brooks etc.

Jaden is probably the biggest reason we've survived (and thrived during) the Gobert absence. It's been cool to see him take on more back line responsibilities. It was sorely needed because while we have plenty of great POA defenders (Ant, Clark, NAW, Shannon), our non-Gobert bigs don't protect the rim.

[brutalitops]

I think McDaniels should get some love -- at least for all defense. He is one of the best PoA defenders in the league, can guard 1-5, and he's also one of the best back line/help defending wings in the league.

He started the season not as sharp on defense, just like he did on offense. Jaden quickly got back to form though and doing his normal thing. He should- by default- always be in the all-defense discussion. We have some shiny new toys this year on the wing (Amen, Dyson, Camara all breaking out), but I think those guys should be measured against incumbents like McDaniels, OG, Herb Jones, Dillon Brooks etc.

Jaden is probably the biggest reason we've survived (and thrived during) the Gobert absence. It's been cool to see him take on more back line responsibilities. It was sorely needed because while we have plenty of great POA defenders (Ant, Clark, NAW, Shannon), our non-Gobert bigs don't protect the rim.

McDaniels has also been asked to really change his defensive game. From being just a perimeter clamp to grabbing more rebounds. Defending the paint more. It took him a while but he's becoming elite at that as well.

People often ignore young players like him having a breakout year (even if he was just as good the year before) then seems to have a "dip" when they play completely different roles. Jaden is still elite and is a top 10 defender in the NBA.

[XTC]

Read on Twitter

Van Fleet’s level up on defense has been near miraculous, one of the better in recent memory. Brook Lopez is probably the starkest player type change I’ve seen, going from an elite post-scoring sieve to a stretching, elite anchor but Van Fleet gets an honorable mention. Udoka brow beat him from a liability to a plus, that’s one of the most challenging things to do as a coach.

FVV has NEVER been a liability...

FVV has always been a fantastic defender, people should really watch tape when FVV was younger, he played textbook defense. He was instrumental in our 2019 run, we don't win in 2019 without him, and the box+1 doesnt work without him. He's probably been one of the more underrated guard defenders in recent memory. Defensively be probably has the best hands in the NBA at the guard position, he lead the league in deflections in 2020, 2021, was #3 in 2022, and was #1 in 2023. He's been a menace defensively for years, which shouldn't come as a surprise considering his vet was Kyle Lowry.

I mean how many 6-0 guards get a defensive highlight reel

Watch on YouTube

[benhillboy]

Read on Twitter

Van Fleet’s level up on defense has been near miraculous, one of the better in recent memory. Brook Lopez is probably the starkest player type change I’ve seen, going from an elite post-scoring sieve to a stretching, elite anchor but Van Fleet gets an honorable mention. Udoka brow beat him from a liability to a plus, that’s one of the most challenging things to do as a coach.

FVV has NEVER been a liability...

FVV has always been a fantastic defender, people should really watch tape when FVV was younger, he played textbook defense. He was instrumental in our 2019 run, we don't win in 2019 without him, and the box+1 doesnt work without him. He's probably been one of the more underrated guard defenders in recent memory. Defensively be probably has the best hands in the NBA at the guard position, he lead the league in deflections in 2020, 2021, was #3 in 2022, and was #1 in 2023. He's been a menace defensively for years, which shouldn't come as a surprise considering his vet was Kyle Lowry.

I mean how many 6-0 guards get a defensive highlight reel

Watch on YouTube

Misrepresenting Van Fleets defense through his career is one of the dumber posts I’ve made. No excuse when I’m a super fan of defense and could’ve easily checked his metrics beforehand. My bad Fred.

[Dacost]

Read on Twitter

I think at this point people are just finding excuses to not give Jaren Jackson Jr a second DPOY.

[Mikistan]

Van Fleet’s level up on defense has been near miraculous, one of the better in recent memory. Brook Lopez is probably the starkest player type change I’ve seen, going from an elite post-scoring sieve to a stretching, elite anchor but Van Fleet gets an honorable mention. Udoka brow beat him from a liability to a plus, that’s one of the most challenging things to do as a coach.

FVV has NEVER been a liability...

FVV has always been a fantastic defender, people should really watch tape when FVV was younger, he played textbook defense. He was instrumental in our 2019 run, we don't win in 2019 without him, and the box+1 doesnt work without him. He's probably been one of the more underrated guard defenders in recent memory. Defensively be probably has the best hands in the NBA at the guard position, he lead the league in deflections in 2020, 2021, was #3 in 2022, and was #1 in 2023. He's been a menace defensively for years, which shouldn't come as a surprise considering his vet was Kyle Lowry.

I mean how many 6-0 guards get a defensive highlight reel

Watch on YouTube

Misrepresenting Van Fleets defense through his career is one of the dumber posts I’ve made. No excuse when I’m a super fan of defense and could’ve easily checked his metrics beforehand. My bad Fred.

While deflections may be a measure of defensive activity, it is not a fullproof single indicator of good defense.

As someone who owned Raptors season tickets since, FVV's last year while on the raptors was a sieve at the point of attack.

[zeebneeb]

Read on Twitter

I think at this point people are just finding excuses to not give Jaren Jackson Jr a second DPOY.

What are the qualifications for this? Starters only? 30mpg?

I'm asking because I don't see Isaiah Stewart on this graph, when he's at 45.5 DFG%

Edit*

"As of March 10, 2025, based on NBA regular season data with a minimum of 100 Defensive Field Goal Attempts (DFGA), the top 5 players with the best defensive field goal percentage (DFG%) at the rim are: Victor Wembanyama at 41.1%, Isaiah Stewart at 42.0%, Chet Holmgren at 42.9%, Amen Thompson at 46.4%, and Jarrett Allen at 49.5%"

[cupcakesnake]

FVV has NEVER been a liability...

FVV has always been a fantastic defender, people should really watch tape when FVV was younger, he played textbook defense. He was instrumental in our 2019 run, we don't win in 2019 without him, and the box+1 doesnt work without him. He's probably been one of the more underrated guard defenders in recent memory. Defensively be probably has the best hands in the NBA at the guard position, he lead the league in deflections in 2020, 2021, was #3 in 2022, and was #1 in 2023. He's been a menace defensively for years, which shouldn't come as a surprise considering his vet was Kyle Lowry.

I mean how many 6-0 guards get a defensive highlight reel

Watch on YouTube

Misrepresenting Van Fleets defense through his career is one of the dumber posts I’ve made. No excuse when I’m a super fan of defense and could’ve easily checked his metrics beforehand. My bad Fred.

While deflections may be a measure of defensive activity, it is not a fullproof single indicator of good defense.

As someone who owned Raptors season tickets since, FVV's last year while on the raptors was a sieve at the point of attack.

Fred had some injury problems over his last year and half with the Raptors that definitely sapped some of his defensive ability. He looked bad moving side to side for most of that year. However, even at his best, POA defense wasn't Fred's best skill. Fred's best defensive skills were pick & roll defense, screen navigation, at helping at the nail.

Deflections mostly give us an idea of how disruptive a player is in help situations. How much the player disrupts passes.

I don't know your history of FVV opinions, but I'm always a little skeptical of Raptors fans when it comes to him. There was a massive segment of that fanbase who turned on him in the most over the top way after he got hurt in the middle of the 2022 season and started struggling badly with his scoring and lateral movement. Fred was always overtasked on a Raptors roster that lacked a main source of rim pressure, and that was exacerbated once he got hurt.

[cupcakesnake]

Read on Twitter

I think at this point people are just finding excuses to not give Jaren Jackson Jr a second DPOY.

What are the qualifications for this? Starters only? 30mpg?

I'm asking because I don't see Isaiah Stewart on this graph, when he's at 45.5 DFG%

Edit*

"As of March 10, 2025, based on NBA regular season data with a minimum of 100 Defensive Field Goal Attempts (DFGA), the top 5 players with the best defensive field goal percentage (DFG%) at the rim are: Victor Wembanyama at 41.1%, Isaiah Stewart at 42.0%, Chet Holmgren at 42.9%, Amen Thompson at 46.4%, and Jarrett Allen at 49.5%"

Looks like starters only. Note that this is also a rim fg% chart, not dfg%.
If Beef Stew was on that graph, he'd be just below Keegan Murray. 53% opponent rim%, and very similar number of opponent FGA.

[Ron Swanson]

Really wish we had better tracking data and metrics for "rim deterrence" as opposed to just D-FG% and percentages "allowed" at the rim. Obviously, guys that contest a ton of shots and allow a low percentage are by-and-large going to have the most impact, but there are certain guys in this league you know who just erase any shot attempts and drives even before they happen once the offensive player sees who's in front of them. Same idea as when a defender makes a "business decision" to not contest a shot by a guy who's gonna put them on a poster.

[ITYSL]

Top 5 in DFG DIFF%, minimum 500 DFGA:

Victor Wembanyama, -6.6
Jaren Jackson Jr.,-6.5
Jalen Williams, -6.1
Amen Thompson, -5.6
Miles Bridges, -5.6

[zeebneeb]

Read on Twitter

I think at this point people are just finding excuses to not give Jaren Jackson Jr a second DPOY.

What are the qualifications for this? Starters only? 30mpg?

I'm asking because I don't see Isaiah Stewart on this graph, when he's at 45.5 DFG%

Edit*

"As of March 10, 2025, based on NBA regular season data with a minimum of 100 Defensive Field Goal Attempts (DFGA), the top 5 players with the best defensive field goal percentage (DFG%) at the rim are: Victor Wembanyama at 41.1%, Isaiah Stewart at 42.0%, Chet Holmgren at 42.9%, Amen Thompson at 46.4%, and Jarrett Allen at 49.5%"

Looks like starters only. Note that this is also a rim fg% chart, not dfg%.
If Beef Stew was on that graph, he'd be just below Keegan Murray. 53% opponent rim%, and very similar number of opponent FGA.

Hmm. I just saw a stat on the Pistons game last night, that he has the best at the rim DFG% Since 2014.

[cupcakesnake]

What are the qualifications for this? Starters only? 30mpg?

I'm asking because I don't see Isaiah Stewart on this graph, when he's at 45.5 DFG%

Edit*

"As of March 10, 2025, based on NBA regular season data with a minimum of 100 Defensive Field Goal Attempts (DFGA), the top 5 players with the best defensive field goal percentage (DFG%) at the rim are: Victor Wembanyama at 41.1%, Isaiah Stewart at 42.0%, Chet Holmgren at 42.9%, Amen Thompson at 46.4%, and Jarrett Allen at 49.5%"

Looks like starters only. Note that this is also a rim fg% chart, not dfg%.
If Beef Stew was on that graph, he'd be just below Keegan Murray. 53% opponent rim%, and very similar number of opponent FGA.

Hmm. I just saw a stat on the Pistons game last night, that he has the best at the rim DFG% Since 2014.

Like, in terms of just the Pistons?
Wonder who it would of been in 2014? Josh Smith? Drummond? Josh Harrellson?

[zeebneeb]

Looks like starters only. Note that this is also a rim fg% chart, not dfg%.
If Beef Stew was on that graph, he'd be just below Keegan Murray. 53% opponent rim%, and very similar number of opponent FGA.

Hmm. I just saw a stat on the Pistons game last night, that he has the best at the rim DFG% Since 2014.

Like, in terms of just the Pistons?
Wonder who it would of been in 2014? Josh Smith? Drummond? Josh Harrellson?

No it was league-wide.

[cupcakesnake]

Hmm. I just saw a stat on the Pistons game last night, that he has the best at the rim DFG% Since 2014.

Like, in terms of just the Pistons?
Wonder who it would of been in 2014? Josh Smith? Drummond? Josh Harrellson?

No it was league-wide.

I guess I'd need to see the graphic. Beef Stew has only been playing since 2021, and while he's posted some strong rim defensive numbers, I've never seen him atop any list.

This year (amongst guys who have played at least 900 minutes), Stewart is 11th in rim fg% differential, and 10th in opponent fg% at the rim. However he's 66th in rim frequency, so he's not defending nearly as many shots as some of the big defensive anchors.

[Ruma85]

Like, in terms of just the Pistons?
Wonder who it would of been in 2014? Josh Smith? Drummond? Josh Harrellson?

No it was league-wide.

I guess I'd need to see the graphic. Beef Stew has only been playing since 2021, and while he's posted some strong rim defensive numbers, I've never seen him atop any list.

This year (amongst guys who have played at least 900 minutes), Stewart is 11th in rim fg% differential, and 10th in opponent fg% at the rim. However he's 66th in rim frequency, so he's not defending nearly as many shots as some of the big defensive anchors.

I saw it too, when I was watching the game, I would post the pic, but not sure how to do it on realgm.