Return to Sender: The Mark Williams Thread

[fatlever]

Mark absolutely deserves a healthy offseason to build up strength in his lower body, something i'm pretty sure he was physically incapable of doing this time last year due to his back. That's what causing his defensive issues more than anything

Dittos. He's performed well offensively, rebounded pretty well, defense just so so but due to lack of physical strength to bang down low. Also think he is wary of injury, but seems to have more confidence in this stretch. Deserves some strong consideration for an extension. Hope he’s ready to work. We need him!

I think an extension is premature.
The the offensive stats and rebound numbers are still inflated compared to some of the impact that we would hope to see from a franchise center
We still need to see if he's able to add functional strength this off season. I'm not investing in a guy with a bad back who can't add muscle to his body. So I think we need to see him be able to add strength. Also need to see the return of defensive impact. Statistically, offensively he's been good but defensively it's still a bit of a mess. Again some of that can be scheme some of that can be the players around him. Certainly a huge chunk of that is down to mark and some lack of quickness and explosion and poor timing and bad reads poor positioning etc. It's also a concern that he seems incapable of getting off to a good start in the 1st quarter or 1st half of games. Almost all of his stats are coming in the second half. A lot of times those stats are in games that are largely blowouts. Exceptions being the Lakers game and most recently Miami game - Meaning those games weren't blowouts, but in both of those games he got off to a slow start. There's a lot to like about the potential of mark which we all are aware of. And there's a lot to be concerned about regarding his health and his ability to actually impact the game when he's on the floor. So unless he's willing to sign an extension on the cheap which I seriously doubt, I would probably hold off until the following summer when he's a restricted tree agent before trying to strike a long term deal. Let's give him another year to prove that his back is healthy that he can add strength and that he can find a way to impact our defensive side of the ball.

[yosemiteben]

Return to sender lol

[HornetJail]

I'm in a few minds about a Mark extension...

1) probably would offer him a long-ish contract (3-4 years, with UNG final year) that's well below his value as a healthy contributor, similar to Time Lord's contract with the Celtics (a bit higher adjusting for cap inflation since 2021, probably comes out to about $16-17M a year?). That number leaves you with either a bargain if he is able to play 55+ games a year, or a moveable contract for an impactful backup/part-time player. By the end of the contract, $17M will be MLE money.

[I'd be quite surprised if Mark agreed to a 3/48M contract, but that's the sweet spot I'm negotiating, at least to start]

2) if he wants market value money, it's gotta be structured like Zion or Jonathan Isaac's contract where he only gets guarantees for the following year if he plays enough games.

3) if he's unwilling to do either, he can risk playing out his 4th year and we'll let the RFA market dictate his value. Gives us an extra year to evaluate whether we need to draft/sign a new center as well.

Under no circumstances do I consider trading him at rock bottom value like we tried to at the deadline. Peterson scares me.

[yosemiteben]

I'm in a few minds about a Mark extension...

1) probably would offer him a long-ish contract (3-4 years, with UNG final year) that's well below his value as a healthy contributor, similar to Time Lord's contract with the Celtics (a bit higher adjusting for cap inflation since 2021, probably comes out to about $16-17M a year?). That number leaves you with either a bargain if he is able to play 55+ games a year, or a moveable contract for an impactful backup/part-time player. By the end of the contract, $17M will be MLE money.

[I'd be quite surprised if Mark agreed to a 3/48M contract, but that's the sweet spot I'm negotiating, at least to start]

2) if he wants market value money, it's gotta be structured like Zion or Jonathan Isaac's contract where he only gets guarantees for the following year if he plays enough games.

3) if he's unwilling to do either, he can risk playing out his 4th year and we'll let the RFA market dictate his value. Gives us an extra year to evaluate whether we need to draft/sign a new center as well.

Under no circumstances do I consider trading him at rock bottom value like we tried to at the deadline. Peterson scares me.

Agreed with everything but the end, that was not rock bottom value for Mark IMO.

[Chapelchilla]

2 first round picks (knecht and lakers future 1st), Reddish and a swap is nowhere near rock bottom pricing on Mark.

If it was anywhere near that, Mark would be in Purple and Gold right now.

[HornetJail]

oops, i wrote two different things and wound up mashing them together... I meant that rock bottom value would be this offseason AFTER the failed trade.

I'll maintain that there's nothing of interest in that Lakers package though, I have a real hard time caring about any Lakers pick after they got gifted Luka, and you can always find a Knecht level guy on the scrap heap.

[MasterIchiro]

I'm in a few minds about a Mark extension...

1) probably would offer him a long-ish contract (3-4 years, with UNG final year) that's well below his value as a healthy contributor, similar to Time Lord's contract with the Celtics (a bit higher adjusting for cap inflation since 2021, probably comes out to about $16-17M a year?). That number leaves you with either a bargain if he is able to play 55+ games a year, or a moveable contract for an impactful backup/part-time player. By the end of the contract, $17M will be MLE money.

[I'd be quite surprised if Mark agreed to a 3/48M contract, but that's the sweet spot I'm negotiating, at least to start]

2) if he wants market value money, it's gotta be structured like Zion or Jonathan Isaac's contract where he only gets guarantees for the following year if he plays enough games.

3) if he's unwilling to do either, he can risk playing out his 4th year and we'll let the RFA market dictate his value. Gives us an extra year to evaluate whether we need to draft/sign a new center as well.

Under no circumstances do I consider trading him at rock bottom value like we tried to at the deadline. Peterson scares me.

Good thoughts but if the Lakers acquired him at rock bottom value they would've passed him on his physical instead of getting cold feet.

[MasterIchiro]

That was a great return for Peterson. He forced a premium. Then the Lakers sobered up from their deadline panic spree.

Peterson will operate accordingly moving forward. Listen on Mark for premium offers. Hold otherwise.

[Bassman]

So the RealGM news headlines window says Hornets are expected to re-explore trades for Mark Williams in the offseason.

Guess that’s not really a surprise, but still makes me question why this gets out there…and who the heck is leaking such info if true? I mean, all the reconstruction required from the botched trade goes all for naught if this team intends to deal him. But then maybe Mark and his agent have confirmed this as Charlotte’s direction regardless of how he plays. Williams has looked good, not great, but has posted performance that would give teams a reason to consider him. He certainly is the best center we have on this team, even without fully being back to strength. Is it strictly about the extension? I doubt any team will now offer us a good enough deal…especially if we keep sending signals of intent to trade him.

[KembaWalker]

I don’t think the relationship was salvageable despite Mark eventually returning to play. Basically sets the rebuild back another year or two minimum to find another young serviceable center assuming we don’t whiff another pick like this past year

[fatlever]

I posted about this in the trade read earlier. Obviously this is just speculation from insiders. But it probably makes sense that the Hornets would still be looking to trade mark and both parties find a fresh start. He's doing a good job of rehabbing his trade value at the moment. It will probably never be as high as it was when he was originally traded to the Lakers but it's definitely higher than it was 3 weeks ago. From the Hornets perspective it's possible that Lee and Peterson want a center with a different profile. Just guessing based on this past year I could see and preferring a center that was a little more Mobile on the perimeter or one that potentially had the ability to shoot threes.

That being said I don't think they will be desperate to trade mark in the summer. It certainly wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if he played out next year and then hit next summer as a restricted free agent.

I'm not sure I see a world though where the Hornets lock mark up on a big long-term contract with Melo, Miles and eventually Miller on big deals.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[HornetJail]

the original Mark trade fixed none of our issues. any move we make this summer will more than likely be worse.

Peterson would have to be an idiot to trade him this summer, but of course, he has proved nonstop since getting the job that he is, in fact, an idiot.

[JMAC3]

Small sample size, but over the last 6 games Mark is playing at an average EPM of +2.5 compared to his season average -0.6.
That would place him in the top 50 epm in the league and at a higher overall EPM than LaMelo for this year.

If Charles Lee doesn't think he can develop a 23 year old center who is capable of putting up 25/15 some nights than he isn't the right coach for the job.

[JMAC3]

If you had told me prior to the year Mark would play 40+ games, end the season healthy while averaging 15/10 I would be pretty optimistic about him as a 23 year old player.

Do we really think he won't improve? I don't really understand it.

Meanwhile he is a much better player than either Edey or Clingan are, who teams just spent top 10 picks on. Would be very Hornets to trade Mark, then draft a worse player in this draft to replace him, add nobody else of significance and wonder why we are still a bottom 5 team in the league.

[KembaWalker]

seems redundant to me to analyze the "why would they want to" part of it when they literally already did it.

i wouldnt get too fond of any previous regime guys and i dont think its going to be a mystery to them or us when theyre a bottom barrel team next season. Knecht and a 2030 pick isnt exactly a win now package

[fatlever]

Not sure any of us will ever know the true reasons why the front office tried to trademark or is still trying to potentially trademark. Take your pick from the following:
- Concerns over his long term health
- Maybe they were unhappy with the way he was playing earlier in the year, perhaps thought he was not giving enough effort
- Long term concerns about what it would take to sign him and would they be able to afford mark miles brandon and melo
- Development of moose
- Already had an agreement in principle with the suns for nurk
- Stockpiling first round picks to make a godfather offer for another superstar in the next 12 months
- Coach and front office prefer a different profile of player at center - Floor spacer, high post passer, mobile perimeter defender, whatever
- Maybe they think they need a different type of defensive player to pair next to melo
- Concerns about work ethic
- Or they really didn't have much of an intention of trading mark but the Lakers offer was too good to pass up and their eyes
- for some reason they really love knecht
- Or the front office is incompetent

Not sure any of us will really know. not Like there's going to be any investigative reporting done on the issue from local media now or ever. The good news is hopefully this version of Mark we've seen over the past two weeks is something we can build on and maybe whatever was slowing him down or hurting his overall play earlier in January are over.

[JDR720]

Trademark: The Mark Williams Thread

[fatlever]

Trademark: The Mark Williams Thread

That's pretty funny. There's just way too many good thread names for Mark.

[fatlever]

Read on Twitter

Tom Thibodeau On Mark William’s and the Hornets performance last night…

“He’s a monster in there. The rim protection is a lot, and then he puts a lot of pressure on the rim when he rolls, and [Jusuf] Nurkic has played really well here. So, the center position did damage, and then [LaMelo] Ball is a very gifted playmaker, obviously, and he can shoot it from anywhere. But they played a good game. They played really hard.”

[JMAC3]

Not sure any of us will ever know the true reasons why the front office tried to trademark or is still trying to potentially trademark. Take your pick from the following:
- Concerns over his long term health
- Maybe they were unhappy with the way he was playing earlier in the year, perhaps thought he was not giving enough effort
- Long term concerns about what it would take to sign him and would they be able to afford mark miles brandon and melo
- Development of moose
- Already had an agreement in principle with the suns for nurk
- Stockpiling first round picks to make a godfather offer for another superstar in the next 12 months
- Coach and front office prefer a different profile of player at center - Floor spacer, high post passer, mobile perimeter defender, whatever
- Maybe they think they need a different type of defensive player to pair next to melo
- Concerns about work ethic
- Or they really didn't have much of an intention of trading mark but the Lakers offer was too good to pass up and their eyes
- for some reason they really love knecht
- Or the front office is incompetent

Not sure any of us will really know. not Like there's going to be any investigative reporting done on the issue from local media now or ever. The good news is hopefully this version of Mark we've seen over the past two weeks is something we can build on and maybe whatever was slowing him down or hurting his overall play earlier in January are over.

Trading Mark without any long-term plan at center is the troubling part and to me says they have no plans to compete in the next few seasons and stock piling picks is more about long term job security and managing low expectations.

Mark is on pace to be the one of 8 Hornet players to ever average 15/10 for a season, but hey who needs him he is only the best Hornets center since we had Al Jefferson a decade ago. We have Moussa who would be the 3rd string center on most teams who is averaging 5pts and 6 boards, we might as well use him if we don't have any plans on trying to win until 3 more top 5 draft picks.