Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[MickeyDavis]

Junior deserves his own thread and he has one.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2446342

[yb90]

This team doesn’t have as many holes as people think to win it all. Just keep putting the right pieces next to Dame/Giannis core.

Dame
???
Kuzma
Giannis
???
………….
Porter
Trent
Portis
…………..
Prince
Brook
…………..
Green
Rollins
Jackson

Horst needs to finish the job this summer after trading for Kuzma and get the Prince and Brook (both will be welcomed as min depth pieces) replacements for the starting lineup.

Looking at free agency I can’t see a more fitting player than NAW. Top class D you absolutely need next to Dame. Fits in offence too since he can have exact the same role with Prince taking 6-7 shots per game hitting 40% of his 3s. Financially I can see Minny matching the most we can offer (full MLE, 4y/60mil), but still they won’t have a starting job to offer.

Then you need to somehow flip Pat for a starting C using some draft capital. I can’t trust Timelord’s health. I don’t like only offence Mark Williams as a target. Kessler fits better as a younger Brook without the 3s. Ainge might not like his next contract and decide to trade him. We already know he values high 2031 picks.

1. Giannis….. 54,1
2. Lillard……. 54,1
3. Kuzma……. 22,4 (+3 mil incentives)
4. NAW……….. 14,1 (MLE)
5. Portis………. 13,4 (opt in and extend)
6. Trent……….. 5,1 (BAE)
7. Kessler…….. 4,9
8. Porter………. 2,5 (opt in)
9. Green………. 2,3
10. Brook….….. 2,3 (vet min)
11. Prince..….. 2,3 (vet min)
12. Jackson.…. 2,2
13. Livingston.. 2,2
14. Rollins.……. 2,2
15. Smith………. 1,9
- total……………. 186,242
- tax………………. 187,895

You can even avoid the tax for a season, which would be crucial moving forward since Kessler probably goes to 20ish money in 2026, KPJ and GTJ both go to 10ish money with Early Bird rights.

I think the Bucks may need to move on from Portis. His numbers dipped this year and it looked like some of his athleticism disappeared too. I think he could work well next to a player like Sims but I would not give him an extension if I was the GM. If he could be used to grab a player like Wiggins or pkg with Pat to grab a player/s it would be nice.

Naw is a nice candidate to add but Amir Coffey is another potential addition I wouldn't mind at the MLE if they can get Trent jr back or trade for a 2 guard. He is a nice back up wing to have.

[pifhluk23]

This team doesn’t have as many holes as people think to win it all. Just keep putting the right pieces next to Dame/Giannis core.

Dame
???
Kuzma
Giannis
???
………….
Porter
Trent
Portis
…………..
Prince
Brook
…………..
Green
Rollins
Jackson

Horst needs to finish the job this summer after trading for Kuzma and get the Prince and Brook (both will be welcomed as min depth pieces) replacements for the starting lineup.

Looking at free agency I can’t see a more fitting player than NAW. Top class D you absolutely need next to Dame. Fits in offence too since he can have exact the same role with Prince taking 6-7 shots per game hitting 40% of his 3s. Financially I can see Minny matching the most we can offer (full MLE, 4y/60mil), but still they won’t have a starting job to offer.

Then you need to somehow flip Pat for a starting C using some draft capital. I can’t trust Timelord’s health. I don’t like only offence Mark Williams as a target. Kessler fits better as a younger Brook without the 3s. Ainge might not like his next contract and decide to trade him. We already know he values high 2031 picks.

1. Giannis….. 54,1
2. Lillard……. 54,1
3. Kuzma……. 22,4 (+3 mil incentives)
4. NAW……….. 14,1 (MLE)
5. Portis………. 13,4 (opt in and extend)
6. Trent……….. 5,1 (BAE)
7. Kessler…….. 4,9
8. Porter………. 2,5 (opt in)
9. Green………. 2,3
10. Brook….….. 2,3 (vet min)
11. Prince..….. 2,3 (vet min)
12. Jackson.…. 2,2
13. Livingston.. 2,2
14. Rollins.……. 2,2
15. Smith………. 1,9
- total……………. 186,242
- tax………………. 187,895

You can even avoid the tax for a season, which would be crucial moving forward since Kessler probably goes to 20ish money in 2026, KPJ and GTJ both go to 10ish money with Early Bird rights.

I think the Bucks may need to move on from Portis. His numbers dipped this year and it looked like some of his athleticism disappeared too. I think he could work well next to a player like Sims but I would not give him an extension if I was the GM. If he could be used to grab a player like Wiggins or pkg with Pat to grab a player/s it would be nice.

Naw is a nice candidate to add but Amir Coffey is another potential addition I wouldn't mind at the MLE if they can get Trent jr back or trade for a 2 guard. He is a nice back up wing to have.

My guess is we wanted to trade him but the whole suspension ruined it. I really hope it doesn't come out that Bobby screwed us getting Butler.

[German Athens]

It's a flawed roster that inexplicably posters thought was fixed by the addition of Kuzma, KPJ and Sims.

I can't figure how they get out of this roster mess. Trading another first is just repeating other bad moves.

Move Dame for a 2 way player.

"Paul George to OKC" is what I keep thinking about. No idea what the Dame-based analog is.

I keep thinking about Houston, and I think Reed Sheppard would fit the Sabonis piece.

Initially my mind went to Jalen green and Reed, but that’s not enough money. I’d love to add Eason to that, but I imagine Houston wouldn’t be interested in the whole deal. Maybe it’s just Green, Reed, and Landale.

Herro + Ware?
McDaniels + TSJ?

Salary filler added where needed.

My hope is one of Maxey, Booker, Ja, Garland, or Haliburton become available, and for whatever reason those teams want Dame+, but that seems exceptionally unlikely.


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[drew881]

How many games has Bobby served? Would be nice to at least see the whole team. I’d be happy with 4 or 5 but will even take 6 seed at this point if it means we are healthy and relatively sound in our rotations. Low expectations though.

[nagawicka]

It's a flawed roster that inexplicably posters thought was fixed by the addition of Kuzma, KPJ and Sims.

I can't figure how they get out of this roster mess. Trading another first is just repeating other bad moves.

Move Dame for a 2 way player.

Why would anyone would think the roster was 'fixed' just because we acquired a 3rd string backup big who may never be anything, a creator whose dubious judgment can't rein it in, and an defender whose energy & enthusiasm can't compensate for a low ceiling that makes him 5th (or 7th!) scoring option? (Tho TBF we did see Kuz finish at the rim (surprise!) and sink a 3 ( ! Kuz as 'closer' from 3 the other day was certainly . . . a decision) (YMM).

None of those guys and none of those trades addressed the Bucks fatal flaws.

[BigO]

The move to make, because it is the only thing that would bring high quality in return, is to now think about moving Giannis.

Giannis for whoever gets the number one pick (Cooper Flagg), plus draft picks and players. Then you can move Dame, while he still has value and get even more.

This is the biggest off season ever, because it will take guts to make the only move that unfortunately makes sense. More later in the trade section. Sorry MD.

[MickeyDavis]

The move to make, because it is the only thing that would bring high quality in return, is to now think about moving Giannis.

Giannis for whoever gets the number one pick (Cooper Flagg), plus draft picks and players. Then you can move Dame, while he still has value and get even more.

This is the biggest off season ever, because it will take guts to make the only move that unfortunately makes sense. More later in the trade section. Sorry MD.

This is the trade thread, you're good. Even if you are advocating trading Giannis

[ShootingtheJ]

Kuzma is now -.4 VORP as a Buck. Traded our 3rd best player and smartest player for a well below replacement level salary albatross, and Horst threw in extra to make it happen.

Fire Horst, rehire him, and fire him again.

[CharityStripe34]

The move to make, because it is the only thing that would bring high quality in return, is to now think about moving Giannis.

Giannis for whoever gets the number one pick (Cooper Flagg), plus draft picks and players. Then you can move Dame, while he still has value and get even more.

This is the biggest off season ever, because it will take guts to make the only move that unfortunately makes sense. More later in the trade section. Sorry MD.

Kudos for the out of the box thinking but I don't think the Bucks are pulling a Nico this off season. Dude will finish 3rd in MVP voting and is still in his peak/prime.

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[JonHeist]

if the bucks trade giannis without him publicly asking out I'm never watching another game until horst, jimmy and wes are gone

I'd absolutely rather chase the 6 seed with our state's greatest ever athlete on the team than try to retool in the *hope* that we can chase the 6 seed

this last ~decade has made us forget how impossible it is for Milwaukee to be a title contender

even if we draft a Flagg-type, they're probably gone after 3-5 years

and even if Flagg reaches his ceiling, he's not going to be better than Giannis

[BigO]

I love the passion for Giannis. The only thing more important than keeping Giannis here is winning another championship.

I not only don't see a championship this season (damn, I hope I'm wrong), but I see no way out of the two prong mess the Bucks are in:

1) They aren't going to get a difference maker with the cap hell they are in
2) They have no draft choices worth anything good.

So the only option is to blow things up. That means only two players who are worth anything valuable. And one of them willl be on the decline sooner rather than later.


Please tell me another path to a championship. Getting another coach? Trading away more first rounders?

[nagawicka]

Edited for accuracy.

2) They have no draft choices.worth anything good.

[paulpressey25]

I love the passion for Giannis. The only thing more important than keeping Giannis here is winning another championship.

I'd rather Giannis retire as a Buck. The odds of the Bucks ever sniffing a title with Cooper Flagg and some other young guys is about .01%. And we'd have to locate a really sharp young GM to take over (again odds say we'll hire a retread versus find that diamond out there)

Let's celebrate our greatest Buck as long as he wants to be here. It is also important in the continued development of a young fanbase.

But yes, assuming the team can't get out of the 1st or 2nd round, Dame does have to go. I just hope we won't be too late in moving him (last June he had more value).

[ReasonablySober]

I love the passion for Giannis. The only thing more important than keeping Giannis here is winning another championship.

I'd rather Giannis retire as a Buck. The odds of the Bucks ever sniffing a title with Cooper Flagg and some other young guys is about .01%. And we'd have to locate a really sharp young GM to take over (again odds say we'll hire a retread versus find that diamond out there)

Let's celebrate our greatest Buck as long as he wants to be here. It is also important in the continued development of a young fanbase.

But yes, assuming the team can't get out of the 1st or 2nd round, Dame does have to go. I just hope we won't be too late in moving him (last June he had more value).

My only nagging thought in this discussion has always been late career David Robinson and then late career Tim Duncan. Both legends who were buoyed and carried to mid 30s titles.

Then I remember that Robinson was the beneficiary of insane lottery luck, Timmy was carried by pick outside of the lotto, and both played in a league that didn't dick over teams that spent. The odds of it happening to Milwaukee are miniscule.

The Bucks got their title and Giannis is a forever legend. But most guys don't spend their entire careers in one spot. Miami went to two finals after LeBron left. Somehow Cleveland is the best team in the East after LeBron left. OKC was built on a Paul George trade.

I'll be a forever fan of his but if some team wants to offer the Godfather package for Giannis this summer then he'd be gone. I don't really care about a star spending their entire career in Milwaukee. Rodgers and Favre left and they're still immortals. I don't think of Prince Fielder any less because he went wherever he went. It won't be great to see Giannis somewhere else, but he's done more than enough for the state. I hope he's happy and winning wherever he goes.

[pifhluk23]

I love the passion for Giannis. The only thing more important than keeping Giannis here is winning another championship.

I not only don't see a championship this season (damn, I hope I'm wrong), but I see no way out of the two prong mess the Bucks are in:

1) They aren't going to get a difference maker with the cap hell they are in
2) They have no draft choices worth anything good.

So the only option is to blow things up. That means only two players who are worth anything valuable. And one of them willl be on the decline sooner rather than later.


Please tell me another path to a championship. Getting another coach? Trading away more first rounders?

Path to another chip was Butler, did Bobby screw that? A disgruntled old star and hope they don't decline, that's about it. We can trade Dame but whatever you get back isn't going to be enough even if it's players only.

Resign Brook, maybe Bobby opts in and then you've got expiring cheap deals to package for a disgruntled star or another Kuzma type. The team as constructed is basically a Brook replacement and a Derrick White away from serious contention. Celtics will be in a salary crunch soon too and White is owed a lot of money in his 30s, would be an excellent trade target for us this Summer.

[BigO]

I love the passion for Giannis. The only thing more important than keeping Giannis here is winning another championship.

I'd rather Giannis retire as a Buck. The odds of the Bucks ever sniffing a title with Cooper Flagg and some other young guys is about .01%. And we'd have to locate a really sharp young GM to take over (again odds say we'll hire a retread versus find that diamond out there)

Let's celebrate our greatest Buck as long as he wants to be here. It is also important in the continued development of a young fanbase.

But yes, assuming the team can't get out of the 1st or 2nd round, Dame does have to go. I just hope we won't be too late in moving him (last June he had more value).

First you state that you want Giannis to retire as a Buck. But then you leave the door open stating that whatever we get back n a trade won't get the Bucks to a title.

You imply you have a price. It's just higher than mine. So if I could convince you that we could get back equal or more in a trade, would you do it?

My mentioning this trade is totally contingent on my view of Cooper Flagg. I think he's not only that good, but won't need five years to reach his potential.

Giannis, if reports are accurate, won't ask for a trade unless he thinks the Bucks aren't capable of winning a championship. Do you wait for him to ask for it, and then do it when you're under pressure, because surely that day is coming.

[blazza18]

The organisation and team needs an overhaul/reset whether Giannis is moved or not.

[German Athens]

Houston:

FVV, Jabari Smith, 2 1sts for Durant
Jalen Green, Reed Sheppard, Jock Landale for Dame

Dame Holiday
Brooks
Durant Whitmore
Eason Thompson
Sengun



Brooklyn:

Claxton for Landale, Pat, ‘31 1st



Milwaukee:

Dame, Pat, ‘31 1st for Jalen Green, Reed Sheppard, Nic Claxton

Reed Rollins
Green Green
Full MLE (maybe NAW) Dre Livingston
Giannis Kuzma Smith
Claxton

You’re banking on some of those younger guys breaking out, but I don’t mind the bet on pedigree. Claxton would give us a mobile switchable big next to Giannis. I’m not in love with Claxton, so if someone else has a better center target, I’m interested in hearing that out, but I do think he’s a guy who could help us.
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[Ron Swanson]

Nico Harrison is proud of y'all. You can give me all the even somewhat logical reasons for trading Giannis without him specifically asking out, but you can't ever convince me that the franchise, city, and fanbase would ever recover from it. When you got a player as good as Giannis is, you're never more than one good offseason away from being a serious contender again. If he was like 33-34, then this is a different discussion.