LaMelephant: The LaMelo Ball Thread (#2)

[JustBuzzin]

if the team is so horrible at multitasking that they've actually convinced people that keeping LaMelo healthy is the primary and most important goal of the entire operation of the franchise for an entire year+ (ongoing? endless? in perpetuity?) to the point where they've been given a total pass for neglecting all other aspects of team building in pursuit of this goal leading us to this current dismal state of the franchise, then getting rid of him would be maybe the best thing that could ever happen.

this is a professional basketball team not LaMelo Ball's personal private ankle rehab clinic

This!

[Bassman]

failing to see the issue with that statement when your offseason/in-season acquisitions as GM are:

Josh Green
Tidjane Salaun
Moussa Diabate
Josh Okogie
Jusuf Nurkic
DaQuan Jeffries
Taj Gibson
Isaiah Wong
Damion Baugh
KJ Simpson
(not including the 10-days and two-way guys that never played)

That turned out to be a pretty brutal list.

This regime can’t afford to misjudge their evaluations for the draft, or free agents, or trade targets. The talent here is well below the ridge line…down in the NBA valley. Can’t climb the mountain on just good intentions or hard work.

[fatlever]

shooting 30% from 3 on 10 attempts since jan 1, 20 game sample.
he better get that **** sorted this summer. he's not good enough in other areas to shoot 3s like that on high volume. its losing recipe. no idea the culprit, but we are way past slump. pre jan 1 was only 34.6%, so still not good enough, but passable.

[KembaWalker]

next year he will shoot better

[Rich4114]

shooting 30% from 3 on 10 attempts since jan 1, 20 game sample.
he better get that **** sorted this summer. he's not good enough in other areas to shoot 3s like that on high volume. its losing recipe. no idea the culprit, but we are way past slump. pre jan 1 was only 34.6%, so still not good enough, but passable.

I think it is a number of factors that have led to this, but one of them being he is not driving into traffic as often as he was earlier in the season which helped open up better 3pt looks. He is settling a lot more, although he had moments in last nights game where he did the right thing. Anyway, things impacting LaMelo that he and the team need to work through at some point:

* Clearly in tank mode and actively not trying to win will affect players, like it or not
* Having the type of season he did early on, averaging 30ppt, leading the NBA in 4th q scoring, still putting up assists/rebs and improving in other areas, leading the popular vote for the ASG only to get snubbed definitely had an impact on him, as expected
* Calf strain against Miami on the last play, after Cody Martin clanked two FT's that could've helped us win ruined his rhythm
* Ankle tweak vs LAL and then injury managing him on and off for it
* Earlier on, Tre Mann helped alleviate a lot of pressure off LaMelo and held the fort down in non-LaMelo mins from a ball handling perspective so the game didn't immediately get out of hand the moment he went down
* Taking a ton of contact and drawing about 10% of the fouls guys like Trae gets
* Speaking of above, teams are now allowed to assault him on the perimeter with 1-2 players forcing him to give it up with no way to make those teams pay
* Constant revolving door of 10 day guys and g leaguers playing major rotation mins next to him is embarrassing
* Barrage of negativity on socials from both fans and media

I mean there's more, but if you sum all of this up for a 23 year old player who still has growing to do... it's very explainable and fixable. Does anyone really think the last 2 months of LaMelo given the above are the real LaMelo and not what we've seen mostly throughout his career including the early part of this season?

[Bassman]

The reality of the situation; it gives the Hornets leadership as many doubts about his ultimate fit here as it gives some fans. Melo is becoming that enigma, that player who shows so much promise while also displaying so much disappointment. His performances naturally feed speculation on how to fix him, or can he be fixed, or is another team his best fit for success?

The temptation will be there for Peterson, and possibly some other GM’s around the league, to discuss Melo’s value in trade.

I don’t see LaMelo as untouchable. It would be a shame to have our brightest potential star over the last decade + be dealt at such a young age. If the return was nearly as impressive, you’d have to consider it. But now we’re talking about value…and Melo’s shooting at a 33% FG clip overall isn’t going to cut it anywhere. I’m certain a number of teams believe they can “fix” this, and maybe they can. Maybe this team isn’t his best shot at getting to his maximum potential. Or will offseason reflection give him dedication to building his strength, his game approach, to become a more complete all-star.

[Rich4114]

The reality of the situation; it gives the Hornets leadership as many doubts about his ultimate fit here as it gives some fans. Melo is becoming that enigma, that player who shows so much promise while also displaying so much disappointment. His performances naturally feed speculation on how to fix him, or can he be fixed, or is another team his best fit for success?

The temptation will be there for Peterson, and possibly some other GM’s around the league, to discuss Melo’s value in trade.

I don’t see LaMelo as untouchable. It would be a shame to have our brightest potential star over the last decade + be dealt at such a young age. If the return was nearly as impressive, you’d have to consider it. But now we’re talking about value…and Melo’s shooting at a 33% FG clip overall isn’t going to cut it anywhere. I’m certain a number of teams believe they can “fix” this, and maybe they can. Maybe this team isn’t his best.

The reality is you need to surround most NBA players (even the best ones) with other NBA talent to see efficiency and wins. I think if you put him on any other non-bottom 5 team you'd see him play more like we've seen him most of his career and earlier this season. I don't think scoring 30ppg is really going to be sustainable without being able to foul bait, but 25ppg at better efficiency while still being the best playmaker on the floor is very possible. It can be here, but it won't be if Jeff and Lee think you win with Salaun's and Josh Green's.

[MasterIchiro]

The reality of the situation; it gives the Hornets leadership as many doubts about his ultimate fit here as it gives some fans. Melo is becoming that enigma, that player who shows so much promise while also displaying so much disappointment. His performances naturally feed speculation on how to fix him, or can he be fixed, or is another team his best fit for success?

The temptation will be there for Peterson, and possibly some other GM’s around the league, to discuss Melo’s value in trade.

I don’t see LaMelo as untouchable. It would be a shame to have our brightest potential star over the last decade + be dealt at such a young age. If the return was nearly as impressive, you’d have to consider it. But now we’re talking about value…and Melo’s shooting at a 33% FG clip overall isn’t going to cut it anywhere. I’m certain a number of teams believe they can “fix” this, and maybe they can. Maybe this team isn’t his best.

The reality is you need to surround most NBA players (even the best ones) with other NBA talent to see efficiency and wins. I think if you put him on any other non-bottom 5 team you'd see him play more like we've seen him most of his career and earlier this season. I don't think scoring 30ppg is really going to be sustainable without being able to foul bait, but 25ppg at better efficiency while still being the best playmaker on the floor is very possible. It can be here, but it won't be if Jeff and Lee think you win with Salaun's and Josh Green's.

Yup. Miles & Miller & Mark = legit help. Just look at the numbers. Mark is averaging ~16 and 10 in ~26 min. Miles and Miller average 21 PPG.

Just need those 4 to stay healthy. Add an MLE signing. Add a top pick.

But Josh Green should never be a fixture in this starting 5 like he has been ALL year, and after Mann clearly outplayed him in exhibition season. That starting spot was never an open competition. When Okogie returns, Jeffries will sit and Green will still be standing. Green kills ball movement.

So does Salaün. When Melo shares the court with players who can't put the ball on the floor, he inevitably will be smothered by defenders.

These are not competitive additions.

Peterson needs to look harder at his additions, not the players he inherited.

[JMAC3]

shooting 30% from 3 on 10 attempts since jan 1, 20 game sample.
he better get that **** sorted this summer. he's not good enough in other areas to shoot 3s like that on high volume. its losing recipe. no idea the culprit, but we are way past slump. pre jan 1 was only 34.6%, so still not good enough, but passable.

His number of threes that are assisted vs unassisted is way down this year.
His 2 best years shooting were 65% and 75% assisted 3s, this year 58% of his threes are assisted, so shooting way more off the dribble.

I mean watching the game, when Melo isn't in the game the offense feels like it is pulling teeth to produce a half way decent shot in the half court. Even when Melo is playing if the ball is on the other side of the floor there is basically nobody on our team who can put the defense into rotations so his overall shot diet is worse,tougher, whatever you want to call it.

Nick Smith Jr is shooting 24% from three his last 15 games.
Josh Green 31% over the last 15 games.

It isn't just a LaMelo thing, our offense is fundamentally flawed.
We rank both 30th in Net Rating over the last 15 games and 30th in Off Rating.

[Rich4114]

shooting 30% from 3 on 10 attempts since jan 1, 20 game sample.
he better get that **** sorted this summer. he's not good enough in other areas to shoot 3s like that on high volume. its losing recipe. no idea the culprit, but we are way past slump. pre jan 1 was only 34.6%, so still not good enough, but passable.

His number of threes that are assisted vs unassisted is way down this year.
His 2 best years shooting were 65% and 75% assisted 3s, this year 58% of his threes are assisted, so shooting way more off the dribble.

I mean watching the game, when Melo isn't in the game the offense feels like it is pulling teeth to produce a half way decent shot in the half court. Even when Melo is playing if the ball is on the other side of the floor there is basically nobody on our team who can put the defense into rotations so his overall shot diet is worse,tougher, whatever you want to call it.

Nick Smith Jr is shooting 24% from three his last 15 games.
Josh Green 31% over the last 15 games.

It isn't just a LaMelo thing, our offense is fundamentally flawed.
We rank both 30th in Net Rating over the last 15 games and 30th in Off Rating.

But LaMelo! It's all him and definitely not trash shooters or Charles Lee offense!

How about our fast break failures though? Is there a way to track +/- in fast break opps? Like, there's a chance we give up more points to the other team on fast breaks than points for our own on our fast breaks.

[Bassman]

Good points all the way around guys. Multiple reasons and multiple problems with the mix of players for sure. I highly prefer to win the lottery, get the future can’t miss superstar Flagg, and pair him with Melo, Miller, Miles and Mark. Improve our bench situation, be healthy, and see what we can become.

I dream of that starting 5, especially seeing how well Miles has responded the second half of this year.

[Chapelchilla]

I think the starting line up next year is -
Melo
Draft pick if G
Miller
Miles
Draft pick if F
Mark

the back ups would then be -
new PG/KJ
Green/NSJ/Curry
Okogie/Jefferies
Williams/Saluan
Nurkic/Diabate

That is a solid,deep team IF healthy. If they can actually field the same starting team/bench team for most nights they can build up the chemistry and anticipation need to help everybody's games to max out. Right now it's mostly improvised line ups with lots of lower tier semi-strangers shuffling through.

[HornetJail]

I think the starting line up next year is -
Melo
Draft pick if G
Miller
Miles
Draft pick if F
Mark

the back ups would then be -
new PG/KJ
Green/NSJ/Curry
Okogie/Jefferies
Williams/Saluan
Nurkic/Diabate

That is a solid,deep team IF healthy. If they can actually field the same starting team/bench team for most nights they can build up the chemistry and anticipation need to help everybody's games to max out. Right now it's mostly improvised line ups with lots of lower tier semi-strangers shuffling through.

unless "new PG" is a fringe starting level PG, this is not a deep roster. backup SG/SF/PF is still a major problem. I wouldn't bank on Grant being able to do much next season after wrecking his knee.

This team needs:

- starting forward/wing/guard capable of playmaking - should be able to handle the ball at least at a Hayward-ish level. hoping our draft pick yields this one. No matter what position they play 1-4.

- high end backup PG/combo guard that can play with Melo, and hold his own in a starting role when Melo misses games. As much as I dislike his game, D'Angelo Russell is an example.

- fringe starting level big man - insurance policy when Mark can't play, and whose skillset is least versatile to play spot minutes alongside him. I love Moose but he should never be in line for starter minutes on a serious team.

- versatile backup wing - we don't have one. the base model fake 3&D guys Jeff keeps signing aren't it

---

If we can't get at least 3 of these without blowing another hole into our core group of players, I think we will be okay next season. All 4 should be the goal, even if it costs us a pick or two to make happen.

[Chapelchilla]

I think the starting line up next year is -
Melo
Draft pick if G
Miller
Miles
Draft pick if F
Mark

the back ups would then be -
new PG/KJ
Green/NSJ/Curry
Okogie/Jefferies
Williams/Saluan
Nurkic/Diabate

That is a solid,deep team IF healthy. If they can actually field the same starting team/bench team for most nights they can build up the chemistry and anticipation need to help everybody's games to max out. Right now it's mostly improvised line ups with lots of lower tier semi-strangers shuffling through.

unless "new PG" is a fringe starting level PG, this is not a deep roster. backup SG/SF/PF is still a major problem. I wouldn't bank on Grant being able to do much next season after wrecking his knee.

This team needs:

- starting forward/wing/guard capable of playmaking - should be able to handle the ball at least at a Hayward-ish level. hoping our draft pick yields this one. No matter what position they play 1-4.

- high end backup PG/combo guard that can play with Melo, and hold his own in a starting role when Melo misses games. As much as I dislike his game, D'Angelo Russell is an example.

- fringe starting level big man - insurance policy when Mark can't play, and whose skillset is least versatile to play spot minutes alongside him. I love Moose but he should never be in line for starter minutes on a serious team.

- versatile backup wing - we don't have one. the base model fake 3&D guys Jeff keeps signing aren't it

---

If we can't get at least 3 of these without blowing another hole into our core group of players, I think we will be okay next season. All 4 should be the goal, even if it costs us a pick or two to make happen.

I think that is pretty accurate. A GOOD back FA PG is mission critical after getting a hopefully high level rookie starter at the top pick.
I think Nurkic and Moussa are good to go at back up C.
Okogie may also be fine as the back up swing wing with recovered Grant at back up F. If Williams is washed though then we need another good guy there or a heckuva lot of growth from Saluan.
I dont expect a 50 win team next year but if they cover those spots, get a top 2 pick and are healthy a winning record should be doable.

[Chapelchilla]

if we get Harper and he can start at 2 with Melo/back up PG then a larger PF probably gets the top need.

[HornetJail]

I think the starting line up next year is -
Melo
Draft pick if G
Miller
Miles
Draft pick if F
Mark

the back ups would then be -
new PG/KJ
Green/NSJ/Curry
Okogie/Jefferies
Williams/Saluan
Nurkic/Diabate

That is a solid,deep team IF healthy. If they can actually field the same starting team/bench team for most nights they can build up the chemistry and anticipation need to help everybody's games to max out. Right now it's mostly improvised line ups with lots of lower tier semi-strangers shuffling through.

unless "new PG" is a fringe starting level PG, this is not a deep roster. backup SG/SF/PF is still a major problem. I wouldn't bank on Grant being able to do much next season after wrecking his knee.

This team needs:

- starting forward/wing/guard capable of playmaking - should be able to handle the ball at least at a Hayward-ish level. hoping our draft pick yields this one. No matter what position they play 1-4.

- high end backup PG/combo guard that can play with Melo, and hold his own in a starting role when Melo misses games. As much as I dislike his game, D'Angelo Russell is an example.

- fringe starting level big man - insurance policy when Mark can't play, and whose skillset is least versatile to play spot minutes alongside him. I love Moose but he should never be in line for starter minutes on a serious team.

- versatile backup wing - we don't have one. the base model fake 3&D guys Jeff keeps signing aren't it

---

If we can't get at least 3 of these without blowing another hole into our core group of players, I think we will be okay next season. All 4 should be the goal, even if it costs us a pick or two to make happen.

I think that is pretty accurate. A GOOD back FA PG is mission critical after getting a hopefully high level rookie starter at the top pick.
I think Nurkic and Moussa are good to go at back up C.
Okogie may also be fine as the back up swing wing with recovered Grant at back up F. If Williams is washed though then we need another good guy there or a heckuva lot of growth from Saluan.
I dont expect a 50 win team next year but if they cover those spots, get a top 2 pick and are healthy a winning record should be doable.

Nurk will need to be trade bait, 1) he's not good, and 2) any one of a combo guard/versatile wing/actually good big man will cost roughly what he makes.

Nurkic is basically Plumlee but big. He does some things okay but we're screwed if a Mark injury leaves us with a Moose+Nurk center rotation for a big chunk of next year. we need to upgrade

[JDR720]

We traded for Nurk because we thought we traded Mark. So unless we also plan on trading Mark again, I don't think we'll keep Nurk. He's too expensive to be a backup.

[HornetJail]

We traded for Nurk because we thought we traded Mark. So unless we also plan on trading Mark again, I don't think we'll keep Nurk. He's too expensive to be a backup.

i don't even think it's that. we traded for Nurk because there was a 1st round pick attached and we gave up raw sewage to get it. I'd be quite surprised to see Nurk on the team at all next year

[yosemiteben]

We traded for Nurk because we thought we traded Mark. So unless we also plan on trading Mark again, I don't think we'll keep Nurk. He's too expensive to be a backup.

i don't even think it's that. we traded for Nurk because there was a 1st round pick attached and we gave up raw sewage to get it. I'd be quite surprised to see Nurk on the team at all next year

It also gives us flexibility - a nice chunk of salary to take on a larger salary in a trade, and also an expiring we can dangle to cap strapped teams.

[SWedd523]

next year he will shoot better

I see what you did there

and I laughed