PG: Knicks vs Portland

[Guano]

there are ways to get creative though. Teams want Draymond too shoot and GS finds way to get up shots to there best players. I get it also has to do with Curry's volume.

Golden State isn't analogous to anyone because of Curry's gravity and volume. They barely run any PnRs at all. The Knicks are middle of the pack in PnR frequency and #1 in the league in PnR points per possession. We also aren't even top 10 in the league in ISO frequency.

But here an idea which they used a lot last night...use Hart more as a screener both on ball and off ball.

If teams are going to continue to drop off Hart us that against them. Mikal was money in the mid range and basically got the Blazers out of drop where they had to start blitzing him and then Mikal his Hart on a short role and then Josh Hart going down hill playing 4 on 3 is typically very advantageous to us.

Correct, but this completely neutralizes KAT as an offensive weapon and Josh can only get downhill on a 4 on 3 if KAT goes and stands in the corner the whole possession. It's not bad offense, and like you said, we're already doing it, but I wouldn't say it is ideal.

Another thing we rarely use is Hart as an off ball screener. The big doesn't want to leave the paint so use Hart to off ball KAT as a pin down screen to have KAT either get open for a C&S 3...or force the big to have to switch back onto KAT on a close out and then KAT can attack.

Its like if the smaller player is on KAT he just stands around.

You can take advantage of a team dropping of Hart with it not resulting in a Hart 3...

Yea, we could be doing more of that, absolutely

Watch on YouTube

this is exactly a pin down that I'm referencing. Simmons teams just drop off him so use that to our advantage off ball. KAT can flare to the wing for an open 3...if he hits one or two of them. Then the big is going to have to come up and help and then that will open KAT's driving game.

And yes we can mirror GS offense because of Curry's gravity...but we have a unicorn type center that shoots 42% from 3 and is taking less than 5 3's a game which is criminal. We have no designed offense to get 3's when teams put there center on Josh Hart.

Similarly when Brunson comes back you can have OG and KAT on the same side as Brunson and do the same thing with Hart and Mikal...pin down Mikal's guy with Hart and instead of a 3 that you would design for KAT you can run it like DET did with rip hamilton...get him in motion coming towards the basket for a middy or take it to the basket.

how effective has kat's drives been this season though. it feels like they end up in a lot of offensive fouls, misses, or turnovers. while he is a good passer he isn't very good at drive and kicking.

one thing that i was hoping we would see more of with brunson out is kat operating from the high post like iHart did last year and we've yet to do that with brunson out. i don't get it cause kat is a good passer.

[robillionaire]

I’m just glad we won a close game down the stretch without Brunson. The prevailing thought was we don’t have a plan besides Brunson bailing us out but when the rubber met the road Towns hit two 3s to put us up 6 and those SHOULD have been the game winners and after they banked in a ridiculous 3 Mikal hit a jumper to put us up 5 with 47 seconds left and that SHOULD have been the game clincher. But then through a bad twist of fate it goes to OT and Deuce hits a 3, Bridges hits a jumper, our defense was very good throughout and we SHOULD have had the ball up 1 and Hart gave that away. And we still ran a play for bridges to hit the game winner. So Brunson is the most clutch player in the NBA and a stone cold lock for clutch player of the year but it’s good to know we have plenty of other guys who can get clutch buckets. Remember OG hit the game winning 3 a week or ago too.

[Gravy]

Mikal is third on the team in field goal attempts. Isn't that where he should be after Brunson and KAT?

He takes plenty shots and has had many bad shooting games to where fans wanted him benched or traded.

It's not the number of shots. It's the how he gets his shots.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

He's had a 41pt game scoring in a variety of ways with and without Brunson on the court

Read on Twitter

[NiceLikeChrist]

hopefully this game serves as a wake up call and shows that if we get mikal involved of course he can produce. same if we get KAT involved. or OG. all of these guys can give you solid offense if that's something you implement in your game plan.

I don't know why our only play down the stretch, brunson or no brunson, is giving whoever the ball at the top and having hart come set a screen. towns just relegated to corner duty standing around barely getting touches down the stretch. that's by design

refs were terrible too. all game long.

win is a win at the end of the day but it really shouldn't be this hard

[GONYK]

I hate to keep ragging on him, but Thibs really has zero imagination.

Like there should be different sets and play calls to create opportunities for the main guys to get shots. Mikal could be doing so much more on and off ball. I think OG could be used as a screener for PnP opportunities and guys could be screening him open. KAT should be involved in 1-5 and 2-5 PnRs.

It's a ton of stuff that he could be doing but he prefers iso ball which is basically playing into the hands of better coaches.

Can't involve KAT in the action if the 5 is on Josh and Josh won't shoot, because the 5 will then just drop to the rim and whoever is involved in the PnR meets a double team in the paint. It's basically why you can't just have KAT post up the smaller defender in that situation either.

Thibs isn't playing pure ISO ball. Every set basically starts with a screen or DHO to get a player in space and create an advantage that should force a double team. That is essentially what every team does. The spacing issues need to be worked out if Hart won't shoot though.

Just do what they did. If the center is in drop off Harr run DHOs with a middy guy. That can KAT, Deuce or MB. Then they have to make plays out of that.

Hart can only shoot when he doesn't have to think.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

That is what we were doing, with maybe the best midrange shooter in the league in Mikal. It worked more than it didn't, but Hart will have to start shooting at some point. He's basically like having Mitch out there if he doesn't.

[GONYK]

Golden State isn't analogous to anyone because of Curry's gravity and volume. They barely run any PnRs at all. The Knicks are middle of the pack in PnR frequency and #1 in the league in PnR points per possession. We also aren't even top 10 in the league in ISO frequency.




Correct, but this completely neutralizes KAT as an offensive weapon and Josh can only get downhill on a 4 on 3 if KAT goes and stands in the corner the whole possession. It's not bad offense, and like you said, we're already doing it, but I wouldn't say it is ideal.



Yea, we could be doing more of that, absolutely

Watch on YouTube

this is exactly a pin down that I'm referencing. Simmons teams just drop off him so use that to our advantage off ball. KAT can flare to the wing for an open 3...if he hits one or two of them. Then the big is going to have to come up and help and then that will open KAT's driving game.

And yes we can mirror GS offense because of Curry's gravity...but we have a unicorn type center that shoots 42% from 3 and is taking less than 5 3's a game which is criminal. We have no designed offense to get 3's when teams put there center on Josh Hart.

Similarly when Brunson comes back you can have OG and KAT on the same side as Brunson and do the same thing with Hart and Mikal...pin down Mikal's guy with Hart and instead of a 3 that you would design for KAT you can run it like DET did with rip hamilton...get him in motion coming towards the basket for a middy or take it to the basket.

how effective has kat's drives been this season though. it feels like they end up in a lot of offensive fouls, misses, or turnovers. while he is a good passer he isn't very good at drive and kicking.

one thing that i was hoping we would see more of with brunson out is kat operating from the high post like iHart did last year and we've yet to do that with brunson out. i don't get it cause kat is a good passer.

The end up with him on the floor, which usually compromises the defense if he didn't make the shot.

[Capn'O]

Hart was a mess yesterday. There's the inbounds play but his refusal to shoot has officially become a problem. There were a few times when he got the ball wide open beyond 3 and he tried to do something else with the ball that resulted in a turnover. Then a few times he did shoot but looked really hesitant about it. He has to punish the defense in those situations or at least have them thinking that the shot is possible. Opponents are just loading up against his drive and kick now.

[prophet_of_rage]

Golden State isn't analogous to anyone because of Curry's gravity and volume. They barely run any PnRs at all. The Knicks are middle of the pack in PnR frequency and #1 in the league in PnR points per possession. We also aren't even top 10 in the league in ISO frequency.




Correct, but this completely neutralizes KAT as an offensive weapon and Josh can only get downhill on a 4 on 3 if KAT goes and stands in the corner the whole possession. It's not bad offense, and like you said, we're already doing it, but I wouldn't say it is ideal.



Yea, we could be doing more of that, absolutely

Watch on YouTube

this is exactly a pin down that I'm referencing. Simmons teams just drop off him so use that to our advantage off ball. KAT can flare to the wing for an open 3...if he hits one or two of them. Then the big is going to have to come up and help and then that will open KAT's driving game.

And yes we can mirror GS offense because of Curry's gravity...but we have a unicorn type center that shoots 42% from 3 and is taking less than 5 3's a game which is criminal. We have no designed offense to get 3's when teams put there center on Josh Hart.

Similarly when Brunson comes back you can have OG and KAT on the same side as Brunson and do the same thing with Hart and Mikal...pin down Mikal's guy with Hart and instead of a 3 that you would design for KAT you can run it like DET did with rip hamilton...get him in motion coming towards the basket for a middy or take it to the basket.

how effective has kat's drives been this season though. it feels like they end up in a lot of offensive fouls, misses, or turnovers. while he is a good passer he isn't very good at drive and kicking.

one thing that i was hoping we would see more of with brunson out is kat operating from the high post like iHart did last year and we've yet to do that with brunson out. i don't get it cause kat is a good passer.

Hi post isn't effective without cutting. We tend to stand and wait for the ball.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[mpharris36]

Can't involve KAT in the action if the 5 is on Josh and Josh won't shoot, because the 5 will then just drop to the rim and whoever is involved in the PnR meets a double team in the paint. It's basically why you can't just have KAT post up the smaller defender in that situation either.

Thibs isn't playing pure ISO ball. Every set basically starts with a screen or DHO to get a player in space and create an advantage that should force a double team. That is essentially what every team does. The spacing issues need to be worked out if Hart won't shoot though.

there are ways to get creative though. Teams want Draymond too shoot and GS finds way to get up shots to there best players. I get it also has to do with Curry's volume.



But here an idea which they used a lot last night...use Hart more as a screener both on ball and off ball.

If teams are going to continue to drop off Hart us that against them. Mikal was money in the mid range and basically got the Blazers out of drop where they had to start blitzing him and then Mikal his Hart on a short role and then Josh Hart going down hill playing 4 on 3 is typically very advantageous to us.

Another thing we rarely use is Hart as an off ball screener. The big doesn't want to leave the paint so use Hart to off ball KAT as a pin down screen to have KAT either get open for a C&S 3...or force the big to have to switch back onto KAT on a close out and then KAT can attack.

Its like if the smaller player is on KAT he just stands around.

You can take advantage of a team dropping of Hart with it not resulting in a Hart 3...

Exactly. Now we're talking ball! I fux with this!

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

that is simply why we wont be reaching our ceiling with this coach...its not his style to run complicated sets. He's read and react and puts all his faith into his players.

Like I appreciate some of the let Brunson do Brunson stuff...especially late in a game. You typically just give the ball to your best players and let them cook. But as teams counter KAT at the 5 with a big on Hart and smaller wing on KAT...we should get creative to use set to get our best players shots in good spots.

[prophet_of_rage]

Mikal is third on the team in field goal attempts. Isn't that where he should be after Brunson and KAT?

He takes plenty shots and has had many bad shooting games to where fans wanted him benched or traded.

It's not the number of shots. It's the how he gets his shots.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

He's had a 41pt game scoring in a variety of ways with and without Brunson on the court

Read on Twitter

And he was given the ball on the move.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[mpharris36]

Golden State isn't analogous to anyone because of Curry's gravity and volume. They barely run any PnRs at all. The Knicks are middle of the pack in PnR frequency and #1 in the league in PnR points per possession. We also aren't even top 10 in the league in ISO frequency.




Correct, but this completely neutralizes KAT as an offensive weapon and Josh can only get downhill on a 4 on 3 if KAT goes and stands in the corner the whole possession. It's not bad offense, and like you said, we're already doing it, but I wouldn't say it is ideal.



Yea, we could be doing more of that, absolutely

Watch on YouTube

this is exactly a pin down that I'm referencing. Simmons teams just drop off him so use that to our advantage off ball. KAT can flare to the wing for an open 3...if he hits one or two of them. Then the big is going to have to come up and help and then that will open KAT's driving game.

And yes we can mirror GS offense because of Curry's gravity...but we have a unicorn type center that shoots 42% from 3 and is taking less than 5 3's a game which is criminal. We have no designed offense to get 3's when teams put there center on Josh Hart.

Similarly when Brunson comes back you can have OG and KAT on the same side as Brunson and do the same thing with Hart and Mikal...pin down Mikal's guy with Hart and instead of a 3 that you would design for KAT you can run it like DET did with rip hamilton...get him in motion coming towards the basket for a middy or take it to the basket.

how effective has kat's drives been this season though. it feels like they end up in a lot of offensive fouls, misses, or turnovers. while he is a good passer he isn't very good at drive and kicking.

one thing that i was hoping we would see more of with brunson out is kat operating from the high post like iHart did last year and we've yet to do that with brunson out. i don't get it cause kat is a good passer.

They were far more effective earlier in the season when he was driving by bigger defenders.

Now that coaches have adjusted we should adjust...but that really isn't a thibs specialty.

For example KAT first bucket last night was on Clingnan where he drove right past him and dunked it.

Its when smaller guys are on him KAT drive game is basically eliminated because he just barrels into people.

So I am suggesting getting more C&S opps for KAT through pin downs with hart. If the Big then is forced to switch that is when KAT's driving game opens back up.

[spree2kawhi]

Mikal is third on the team in field goal attempts. Isn't that where he should be after Brunson and KAT?

He takes plenty shots and has had many bad shooting games to where fans wanted him benched or traded.

It's not the number of shots. It's the how he gets his shots.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

He's had a 41pt game scoring in a variety of ways with and without Brunson on the court

Read on Twitter

It doesn’t matter if fans want him traded. They don’t understand basketball. It is true that he hasn’t been consistent like a LeBron or Brunson, but here has had long good stretches and for the year, his numbers are okay. The defense is good. After all, he is seventh in the league in plus/minus if I see it correctly here - again, that’s top 10 in the league: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-leaders-in-plus-minus (Edit: oh well, that was through 40-something games, he’s now dropped to 31, but that’s still ahead of Giannis, Caruso, Doncic, Morant, Bane etc.)

Some posters are just never satisfied or really have to tone down the trolling. It’s unreasonable.

[JayTWill]

Mikal is third on the team in field goal attempts. Isn't that where he should be after Brunson and KAT?

He takes plenty shots and has had many bad shooting games to where fans wanted him benched or traded.

It's not just the shot attempts. It's his involvement in the offense overall. As far as the shot attempts he is behind Brunson and KAT but he also takes a back seat to Payne many times when they are on the court together. He is behind Brunson, Hart, KAT, Payne and Deuce with the amount of time he handles the ball. He could be more involved in the offense in different ways than just the random shots he gets throughout the game and even the quality of those shots could be better.

[Polk377]

The Knicks need to figure out a way to get Bridges more involved as a pick and roll ball handler when JB is back. We have offensive weapons that aren't being utilized. It's exhausting watching them run the same pick and roll with Brunson in the same set for 50 straight plays. Mix it up to keep the defense guessing.

[JayTWill]

Coaching matters. Good to know we have one of the best in the game. Road wins especially out west aren’t easy even against a bad team

Could you give some examples of the good coaching you saw in the last game? I know it's easier for me to see a player's successes and failures but i'm truly curious to know what you saw from the coaching that made you want to post this.

[8516knicks]

Can't involve KAT in the action if the 5 is on Josh and Josh won't shoot, because the 5 will then just drop to the rim and whoever is involved in the PnR meets a double team in the paint. It's basically why you can't just have KAT post up the smaller defender in that situation either.

Thibs isn't playing pure ISO ball. Every set basically starts with a screen or DHO to get a player in space and create an advantage that should force a double team. That is essentially what every team does. The spacing issues need to be worked out if Hart won't shoot though.

Just do what they did. If the center is in drop off Harr run DHOs with a middy guy. That can KAT, Deuce or MB. Then they have to make plays out of that.

Hart can only shoot when he doesn't have to think.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

That is what we were doing, with maybe the best midrange shooter in the league in Mikal. It worked more than it didn't, but Hart will have to start shooting at some point. He's basically like having Mitch out there if he doesn't.

Perhaps Thibs can't coach with 5 guys on the floor who can shoot? Then, again, perhaps he can't coach period.

[mpharris36]

Coaching matters. Good to know we have one of the best in the game. Road wins especially out west aren’t easy even against a bad team

Could you give some examples of the good coaching you saw in the last game? I know it's easier for me to see a player's successes and failures but i'm truly curious to know what you saw from the coaching that made you want to post this.

don't do this...its a road to nowhere...

[Guano]

It's not the number of shots. It's the how he gets his shots.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

He's had a 41pt game scoring in a variety of ways with and without Brunson on the court

Read on Twitter

It doesn’t matter if fans want him traded. They don’t understand basketball. It is true that he hasn’t been consistent like a LeBron or Brunson, but here has had long good stretches and for the year, his numbers are looking good. The defense is good. After all, he is seventh in the league in plus/minus if I see it correctly here - again, that’s top 10 in the league: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-leaders-in-plus-minus (Edit: oh well, that was thorough 40-something games, he’s now dropped to 31, but that’s still ahead of Giannis, Caruso, Doncic, Morant, Bane etc.)

Some posters are just never satisfied or really have to tone down the trolling. It’s unreasonable.

what is unreasonable is to act like those of us who expect to see more consistency have the expectations of greatness like curry or lebron from mikal.

*his defense has been consistently great all year. and it's noted that a lot of his offensive problems are system related. but him fcking his form up and some of his hesitation on being aggressive is really frustrating cost considering - fair or not

[Capn'O]

The Knicks need to figure out a way to get Bridges more involved as a pick and roll ball handler when JB is back. We have offensive weapons that aren't being utilized. It's exhausting watching them run the same pick and roll with Brunson in the same set for 50 straight plays. Mix it up to keep the defense guessing.

Yes. His middy is so automatic it opens a lot.

[mpharris36]

The Knicks need to figure out a way to get Bridges more involved as a pick and roll ball handler when JB is back. We have offensive weapons that aren't being utilized. It's exhausting watching them run the same pick and roll with Brunson in the same set for 50 straight plays. Mix it up to keep the defense guessing.

Yes. His middy is so automatic it opens a lot.

Bridges is our Rip Hamilton