2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[schnakenpopanz]

Ask yourself. which player of the current suns would you take to replace wha the suns had in the finals run 2021?
PG: cp3>>>>>>>>>>jones or beal
SG: booker is booker
SF: bridges << durant but only in terms of super star power
PF: crowder >>>> bol bol
C: Ayton >>>> Richards or hoever

bench >>>> bench now.

so all the suns tried is getting ONE more superstar-esque over his prime who does not fit to the other stars and they doubled down by bringing in another one who doe snot fit.

GENIUS.

But he is a BUSINESS MAN!!!

[BobbieL]

Ask yourself. which player of the current suns would you take to replace wha the suns had in the finals run 2021?
PG: cp3>>>>>>>>>>jones or beal
SG: booker is booker
SF: bridges << durant but only in terms of super star power
PF: crowder >>>> bol bol
C: Ayton >>>> Richards or hoever

bench >>>> bench now.

so all the suns tried is getting ONE more superstar-esque over his prime who does not fit to the other stars and they doubled down by bringing in another one who doe snot fit.

GENIUS.

But he is a BUSINESS MAN!!!

I just know what team is better. Durant traded

So Booker with trade pieces from Beal

Or Beal with trade pieces from Booker

It’s pretty obvious

[sunskerr]

Read on Twitter

As much as Jokic has been incredible this year, probably the best he's ever played, I don't think it's a coincidence Shai is leading in actual EPM, LEBRON, and afaik single season DARKO.

Shai has gotten better every year after already being a top 5 guy since 22-23... He adds something visibly significant (like you can see it when he plays) to improve his game every year and when you're an MVP candidate that's ridiculously hard to do. Jokic also did it this year with shooting 3s.

Jokic may be the best player in the game but Shai might actually be better this single year because of defense. His defense is getting understated because he's playing with Jdub, Caruso, Chet, etc. but imo he is actually an elite or near-elite defender.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Such a great kid. He and Oso are definitely high character guys with solid professionalism. Kind of like our previous iteration!

[mkot]

Read on Twitter

Dante Exum broke his hand tonight, unbelievable.

I have never seen anything like it, the curse of the Luka trade is just unbelievalbe. Sucks for the fans and players, Nico Harrison and Patrick Dumont ruined everything for them.

I don't think it makes any difference for us to be frank, we need to win our games regardless.

[sunsbg]

Read on Twitter

Such a great kid. He and Oso are definitely high character guys with solid professionalism. Kind of like our previous iteration!

Shooting still very rough, but he has shown glimpses so keep working hard in the offseason and we have a keeper in Dunn. Would be fun watching him give effort on D for the years to come unless FO does something stupid.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Such a great kid. He and Oso are definitely high character guys with solid professionalism. Kind of like our previous iteration!

Shooting still very rough, but he has shown glimpses so keep working hard in the offseason and we have a keeper in Dunn.

Yeah! I've seen video clips of him working hard on his game constantly. But what blows my mind is with all the money that Ishbia flaunts and brags about spending like it's nothing.

You'd at least think he'd choose to hire some of the NBAs premier shooting coaches like Chip England, Chris Matthews, Dave Love, Peter Patton. They could really help BOTH Dunn and Ighodaro tremendously!

Other teams are always hiring shooting coaches to help their players and team overall,
But you never hear anything about this from the Suns ever!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

As far as the idea around trading Beal, I know most of the recent discussions have been around a Paul George discussion. And to be clear, I wouldn't do that at all without picks or at least a premium 1st coming back.

And I know about Bobbi Ls' thoughts on this too. But would you guys consider either of these two scenarios if Ishbia absolutely wouldn't accept a Booker trade/ rebuild:

Read on Twitter

Would you give up a 1st for either a Beal for Markannen deal and then play a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Markannen/ Richards.
Or
A Beal/ 1st to Utah for Collins/ Sexton/ Mikhaliuk. Knowing that BOTH Collins and Sexton would be expiring contracts ( totalling $ 44 million) that's 14 million more than Randles' 30 million and you'd keep Booker and KD together. But you could run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Collins/ Richards.
Sexton/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Plumlee.
Gillespie/ Mikhaliuk/ O'neale/ Draft/ Ighodaro??
This would be for next season and then you could make a decision on whether to resign all of KD, Collins, Sexton, trade them all, let all expire for almost 90 million in cap reduction. Trade 1 and keep the other?

Would you do either of these trades with Utah (IF Beal would agree to go to Utah)? Or would you send Beal to Orlando for Isaac/ Anthony/ Bidatze/ Harris? Or something along those lines? And then run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Isaac/ Richards.
Anthony/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Bidatze.
Gillespie/ Draft/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Plumlee.

[Frank Lee]

Trade fever symptoms include extreme moments of delusion and the incessant manipulation of numbers. The infected seldom realize the excessive drivel that comes forth and are unable to examine the actual content of their spewed notions. When faced with realism, they will double down on their rhetoric with illogical circular defenses based on the premise that anything is possible. These conditions will persist until the point of exhaustion from all involved and then, in a state of weakness, the victim will slide into the a more critical condition known as OffSeasonitus highlighted with sporadic bouts of a second infliction… Draft Fever.

Fortunately, it is not contagious though sequestering is often recommended. Please consult a physician if these conditions persist

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

As far as the idea around trading Beal, I know most of the recent discussions have been around a Paul George discussion. And to be clear, I wouldn't do that at all without picks or at least a premium 1st coming back.

And I know about Bobbi Ls' thoughts on this too. But would you guys consider either of these two scenarios if Ishbia absolutely wouldn't accept a Booker trade/ rebuild:

Read on Twitter

Would you give up a 1st for either a Beal for Markannen deal and then play a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Markannen/ Richards.
Or
A Beal/ 1st to Utah for Collins/ Sexton/ Mikhaliuk. Knowing that BOTH Collins and Sexton would be expiring contracts ( totalling $ 44 million) that's 14 million more than Randles' 30 million and you'd keep Booker and KD together. But you could run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Collins/ Richards.
Sexton/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Plumlee.
Gillespie/ Mikhaliuk/ O'neale/ Draft/ Ighodaro??
This would be for next season and then you could make a decision on whether to resign all of KD, Collins, Sexton, trade them all, let all expire for almost 90 million in cap reduction. Trade 1 and keep the other?

Would you do either of these trades with Utah (IF Beal would agree to go to Utah)? Or would you send Beal to Orlando for Isaac/ Anthony/ Bidatze/ Harris? Or something along those lines? And then run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Isaac/ Richards.
Anthony/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Bidatze.
Gillespie/ Draft/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Plumlee.

No. BLOW IT UP!

Just blow it up


I don't want "splash and flash" moves. I don't want to keep Booker because its "emotion and he is a lifelong Sun"

The best way to rebuild the team is trading Booker and Durant. What will you get for Beal - not much

What will you get for KD and Durant -- a helluva lot to put around Beal for two years. And if Beal is available for trade and it doesn't cost picks but you get two bad contracts that expire the same year, but are small, so be it

[Rebound Mound]

I do agree with Ishbia in thinking that it is better to win with KD than without him. The problem does not lay in the possibilities that KD offers as a player, but in the lack of chemistry with Go knows whom? Booker? Beal? Group in general? BDH in particular?

The key to retool and have options for being en elite team lay in trading Beal for one or two key players and find a win-now coach who also could have the patience to develop the team.

Will Beal agree to a trade to a team he does not like?m Well, he is playing in a position that is not his for two seasons, receiving criticism right and left and, more importantly, the team is not winning.He should be fed up with this.

Finding two good players for him, playing KD as his natural position of SF, finding a good PG and give a bigger role to our rookies, as well as finding PT for Bol and trading Oneale or Allen for a different player (either a big or a bench small player) is also a key to transforming the team.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

As far as the idea around trading Beal, I know most of the recent discussions have been around a Paul George discussion. And to be clear, I wouldn't do that at all without picks or at least a premium 1st coming back.

And I know about Bobbi Ls' thoughts on this too. But would you guys consider either of these two scenarios if Ishbia absolutely wouldn't accept a Booker trade/ rebuild:

Read on Twitter

Would you give up a 1st for either a Beal for Markannen deal and then play a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Markannen/ Richards.
Or
A Beal/ 1st to Utah for Collins/ Sexton/ Mikhaliuk. Knowing that BOTH Collins and Sexton would be expiring contracts ( totalling $ 44 million) that's 14 million more than Randles' 30 million and you'd keep Booker and KD together. But you could run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Collins/ Richards.
Sexton/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Plumlee.
Gillespie/ Mikhaliuk/ O'neale/ Draft/ Ighodaro??
This would be for next season and then you could make a decision on whether to resign all of KD, Collins, Sexton, trade them all, let all expire for almost 90 million in cap reduction. Trade 1 and keep the other?

Would you do either of these trades with Utah (IF Beal would agree to go to Utah)? Or would you send Beal to Orlando for Isaac/ Anthony/ Bidatze/ Harris? Or something along those lines? And then run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Isaac/ Richards.
Anthony/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Bidatze.
Gillespie/ Draft/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Plumlee.

No. BLOW IT UP!

Just blow it up


I don't want "splash and flash" moves. I don't want to keep Booker because its "emotion and he is a lifelong Sun"

The best way to rebuild the team is trading Booker and Durant. What will you get for Beal - not much

What will you get for KD and Durant -- a helluva lot to put around Beal for two years. And if Beal is available for trade and it doesn't cost picks but you get two bad contracts that expire the same year, but are small, so be it

No, I definitely agree! And it should be widely known by now that is my preferred preference for a sustainable future. But apparently from what the majority of reports/ tweets have indicated, our owner is still in far too much ego driven denial to accept that reality!


So this is just a thought exercise exploring what might be our best and/ or most realistic options under those conditions we're likely restricted to man. But again I do agree with you on trading KD and Booker and blowing it all up. I also believe that Ishbia does understand that this is what the majority of the fanbase prefers too!! But I just don't think we'll get that most logical outcome under Ishbia yet?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Trade fever symptoms include extreme moments of delusion and the incessant manipulation of numbers. The infected seldom realize the excessive drivel that comes forth and are unable to examine the actual content of their spewed notions. When faced with realism, they will double down on their rhetoric with illogical circular defenses based on the premise that anything is possible. These conditions will persist until the point of exhaustion from all involved and then, in a state of weakness, the victim will slide into the a more critical condition known as OffSeasonitus highlighted with sporadic bouts of a second infliction… Draft Fever.

Fortunately, it is not contagious though sequestering is often recommended. Please consult a physician if these conditions persist

Lol! Typical Frank Lee response! Not at all surprising wordsmithing and low key snide, salty, contemptuous quips and jabs instead of any semblance of healthy or constructive objectivity or promoting of a healthy dialogue interaction on a premised topic.

I'm sorry the ability to actually promote any healthy and constructive dialogue towards reflection on a hypothetical premise still eludes you man. So instead you opt to bitterly and contemptuously attack those that do offer topics of discussion.

But even if you can't muster a legitimately constructive response towarda an actual discussion beyond clever wordsmithing to attack others, your base contributions of entertaining spicy verbal jabs and veiled barbs are still a contribution even if disappointing and predictable.

So don't ever change man! Please always stay just as you are because personal evolution and reflection is an obviously overrated notion. I love the spiciness you bring!

[dremill24]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

As far as the idea around trading Beal, I know most of the recent discussions have been around a Paul George discussion. And to be clear, I wouldn't do that at all without picks or at least a premium 1st coming back.

And I know about Bobbi Ls' thoughts on this too. But would you guys consider either of these two scenarios if Ishbia absolutely wouldn't accept a Booker trade/ rebuild:

Read on Twitter

Would you give up a 1st for either a Beal for Markannen deal and then play a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Markannen/ Richards.
Or
A Beal/ 1st to Utah for Collins/ Sexton/ Mikhaliuk. Knowing that BOTH Collins and Sexton would be expiring contracts ( totalling $ 44 million) that's 14 million more than Randles' 30 million and you'd keep Booker and KD together. But you could run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Collins/ Richards.
Sexton/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Plumlee.
Gillespie/ Mikhaliuk/ O'neale/ Draft/ Ighodaro??
This would be for next season and then you could make a decision on whether to resign all of KD, Collins, Sexton, trade them all, let all expire for almost 90 million in cap reduction. Trade 1 and keep the other?

Would you do either of these trades with Utah (IF Beal would agree to go to Utah)? Or would you send Beal to Orlando for Isaac/ Anthony/ Bidatze/ Harris? Or something along those lines? And then run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Isaac/ Richards.
Anthony/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Bidatze.
Gillespie/ Draft/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Plumlee.

There is no chance you get Markkanen for Beal and a 1st so Id take that off your list right off the bat.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

As far as the idea around trading Beal, I know most of the recent discussions have been around a Paul George discussion. And to be clear, I wouldn't do that at all without picks or at least a premium 1st coming back.

And I know about Bobbi Ls' thoughts on this too. But would you guys consider either of these two scenarios if Ishbia absolutely wouldn't accept a Booker trade/ rebuild:

Read on Twitter

Would you give up a 1st for either a Beal for Markannen deal and then play a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Markannen/ Richards.
Or
A Beal/ 1st to Utah for Collins/ Sexton/ Mikhaliuk. Knowing that BOTH Collins and Sexton would be expiring contracts ( totalling $ 44 million) that's 14 million more than Randles' 30 million and you'd keep Booker and KD together. But you could run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Collins/ Richards.
Sexton/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Plumlee.
Gillespie/ Mikhaliuk/ O'neale/ Draft/ Ighodaro??
This would be for next season and then you could make a decision on whether to resign all of KD, Collins, Sexton, trade them all, let all expire for almost 90 million in cap reduction. Trade 1 and keep the other?

Would you do either of these trades with Utah (IF Beal would agree to go to Utah)? Or would you send Beal to Orlando for Isaac/ Anthony/ Bidatze/ Harris? Or something along those lines? And then run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Isaac/ Richards.
Anthony/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Bidatze.
Gillespie/ Draft/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Plumlee.

There is no chance you get Markkanen for Beal and a 1st so Id take that off your list right off the bat.

Interesting perspective man. I'm curious as to what this perspective is based upon? Is it just a surface level assessment or something more?

[Sunsdeuce]

I do agree with Ishbia in thinking that it is better to win with KD than without him. The problem does not lay in the possibilities that KD offers as a player, but in the lack of chemistry with Go knows whom? Booker? Beal? Group in general? BDH in particular?

The key to retool and have options for being en elite team lay in trading Beal for one or two key players and find a win-now coach who also could have the patience to develop the team.

Will Beal agree to a trade to a team he does not like?m Well, he is playing in a position that is not his for two seasons, receiving criticism right and left and, more importantly, the team is not winning.He should be fed up with this.

Finding two good players for him, playing KD as his natural position of SF, finding a good PG and give a bigger role to our rookies, as well as finding PT for Bol and trading Oneale or Allen for a different player (either a big or a bench small player) is also a key to transforming the team.

What winning are you referring to? (Current record 31-35)

[bwgood77]

Well I don't think we make the play in if Dallas had remained healthy.

However, with them so banged up, especially if their bigs don't come back, I think we make the play in, and can beat the Kings, to then be in the 8/9 matchup. And we seem to play well against the Clips, so I think we'd have a good chance of beating them.

Then we could get to the 8 seed and lose in 4 or 5 games. We also play OKC later near the end of the season and they've already clinched a playoff spot and in about a week will probably clinch the 1 seed if not already.

Dallas does have one of the easiest schedules left though while we have one of the toughest, along with the Kings.

[dremill24]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

As far as the idea around trading Beal, I know most of the recent discussions have been around a Paul George discussion. And to be clear, I wouldn't do that at all without picks or at least a premium 1st coming back.

And I know about Bobbi Ls' thoughts on this too. But would you guys consider either of these two scenarios if Ishbia absolutely wouldn't accept a Booker trade/ rebuild:

Read on Twitter

Would you give up a 1st for either a Beal for Markannen deal and then play a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Markannen/ Richards.
Or
A Beal/ 1st to Utah for Collins/ Sexton/ Mikhaliuk. Knowing that BOTH Collins and Sexton would be expiring contracts ( totalling $ 44 million) that's 14 million more than Randles' 30 million and you'd keep Booker and KD together. But you could run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Collins/ Richards.
Sexton/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Plumlee.
Gillespie/ Mikhaliuk/ O'neale/ Draft/ Ighodaro??
This would be for next season and then you could make a decision on whether to resign all of KD, Collins, Sexton, trade them all, let all expire for almost 90 million in cap reduction. Trade 1 and keep the other?

Would you do either of these trades with Utah (IF Beal would agree to go to Utah)? Or would you send Beal to Orlando for Isaac/ Anthony/ Bidatze/ Harris? Or something along those lines? And then run a lineup of:

Booker/ Allen/ Durant/ Isaac/ Richards.
Anthony/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Bidatze.
Gillespie/ Draft/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Plumlee.

There is no chance you get Markkanen for Beal and a 1st so Id take that off your list right off the bat.

Interesting perspective man. I'm curious as to what this perspective is based upon? Is it just a surface level assessment or something more?

If it's not already apparent, then Im not too interested in getting into a back & forth on it tbh. I'll say its based both on surface level assessment and more through evaluation and call it there.

[Saberestar]

Spoiler:

There is no chance you get Markkanen for Beal and a 1st so Id take that off your list right off the bat.

Interesting perspective man. I'm curious as to what this perspective is based upon? Is it just a surface level assessment or something more?

If it's not already apparent, then Im not too interested in getting into a back & forth on it tbh. I'll say its based both on surface level assessment and more through evaluation and call it there.

Absolutely.

Markannen is a great player entering his prime and we are gonna get him for NTC Beal and a superlow FRP? Lol. The Jazz would laugh hard about it.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

There is no chance you get Markkanen for Beal and a 1st so Id take that off your list right off the bat.

Interesting perspective man. I'm curious as to what this perspective is based upon? Is it just a surface level assessment or something more?

If it's not already apparent, then Im not too interested in getting into a back & forth on it tbh. I'll say its based both on surface level assessment and more through evaluation and call it there.

It's a simple question man! Is your position based upon Beals percieved value/ contract. Is it because you feel the percieved value gap is too big between the two. Is it because you simply believe that Beal would agree to go there? Saying something won't happen without giving any reason even if you claim it already apparent isn't really saying anything other than you disagree prospectively

I'm only curious as to what brought you to that determination. But if your unwilling to explore that, no big deal. I'll just accept that you disagree. You did pretty vehemently claim " There's no chance of that happening " I was just curious as to what caused you to believe that man.