Kevin Durant

[minimus]

I was trying to convey that almost 40% of his playoff games happened with GSW. Funny how much easier the game is when you have Curry, Klay, the rest of the dynasty warriors behind you.

This is EXACTLY the reason why people underestimate KD. Do his three seasons with Curry worth less? KD - 17 seasons, 170 playoff games. Curry - 17 seasons, 147 playoff games.

Since leaving GSW KD had played 12, 4, 11, 4 or 31 playoff games. Since that time he has won 2 series. I don’t think people underrate Durant, but his legacy will always be as Robin to Curry’s Batman.

Before joining GSW KD played 91 playoff games. Not an Batman? He is all-time 7th in playoff scoring, 3rd in playoff average PPG and NBA Finals MVP TWICE. Also being Robin is not easier, it is different, although it makes me always laugh any Robin / Batman comparison since Towns / Edwards days

Durant is not and never will be the Jordan or LeBron.

This is such a low effort take... I agree Durant will never be Jordan or LeBron. Does it make him a worse player?
LeBron who lead the way... Or LeBron who always wants to play with other superstars, including Doncic?

In my opinion if GM has a chance to bring second superstar who FITS, he needs to take that risk. TC did it with Gobert and it was a right move.

Agree to disagree whether Robin has an easier time than Batman. Ask Ant how it feels to have defenses focus on you and try to make the other guy beat you.

Again. It is a role specific, not a player specific. Last year Kyrie killed us as much as Luka, and the best offenses combine strengths of their best players, rather than just playing "your turn, my turn". It is more complex and context dependent. Towns and Edwards weren't particularly good at recognizing matchups, which is crucial part in team offense. However, BOS example has showed that you can rely on two superstars who have gradually improved as decision makers within elite system. I bet they don't care who was option 1, as Tatum and Brown said it many times.

Back to the main point of the thread

I wrote my opinion on possible KD trade, and my post assumed that. I don't want to trade McDaniels (confirmed that he is untouchable) and I want to keep Reid. I don't want to keep Randle because he is playing for big contract, he might deserve it, but financially I don't see MIN keeping all three Gobert, Reid and Randle.

There are many ongoing dynamics in MIN:

- Gobert back issues aka long term durability
- young players success: Clark and TJ are ready
- McDaniels development (as PF)
- DDV fit in MIN
- Randle is playing on high level while being 100% healthy for the first time
- NAW consistency as backup comboguard
- Conley being able to play 15-20 of good basketball
- it looks like MIN get DET FRP pick and UTA SRP this year
- MIN on 7-0 run and easy schedule continues

At the same time there is an ongoing process in PHO. And it might be a moment this offseason when MIN dynamic and PHO dynamic makes KD trade realistic for both sides. For MIN, it means:

- KD value is lower, definitely not three FRPs and a young player
- value our assets increases: Randle, NAW, Clark, DET pick

From what I see TC was right not to make any cosmetic trades before deadline while asking PHO about KD price. We know that McDaniels was off the table, while a deal around Randle and DDV was discussed. Both Randle and DDV have been playing very well lately. So I don't think I am smarter than TC.

P.S. With regard to KD future contract. He accepted 25mil deal instead of 35mil to win championship in GSW. He was in his prime. It was almost 30% discount! How many current players did the same? You continues to push "39yo will earn 60 mil" narrative, but it is just your assumption based on nothing, while there is a fact saying that KD had already situation where he put money and ambitions aside to be in high stakes game.

[winforlose]

This is EXACTLY the reason why people underestimate KD. Do his three seasons with Curry worth less? KD - 17 seasons, 170 playoff games. Curry - 17 seasons, 147 playoff games.



Before joining GSW KD played 91 playoff games. Not an Batman? He is all-time 7th in playoff scoring, 3rd in playoff average PPG and NBA Finals MVP TWICE. Also being Robin is not easier, it is different, although it makes me always laugh any Robin / Batman comparison since Towns / Edwards days



This is such a low effort take... I agree Durant will never be Jordan or LeBron. Does it make him a worse player?
LeBron who lead the way... Or LeBron who always wants to play with other superstars, including Doncic?

In my opinion if GM has a chance to bring second superstar who FITS, he needs to take that risk. TC did it with Gobert and it was a right move.

Agree to disagree whether Robin has an easier time than Batman. Ask Ant how it feels to have defenses focus on you and try to make the other guy beat you.

Again. It is a role specific, not a player specific. Last year Kyrie killed us as much as Luka, and the best offenses combine strengths of their best players, rather than just playing "your turn, my turn". It is more complex and context dependent. Towns and Edwards weren't particularly good at recognizing matchups, which is crucial part in team offense. However, BOS example has showed that you can rely on two superstars who have gradually improved as decision makers within elite system. I bet they don't care who was option 1, as Tatum and Brown said it many times.

Back to the main point of the thread

I wrote my opinion on possible KD trade, and my post assumed that. I don't want to trade McDaniels (confirmed that he is untouchable) and I want to keep Reid. I don't want to keep Randle because he is playing for big contract, he might deserve it, but financially I don't see MIN keeping all three Gobert, Reid and Randle.

There are many ongoing dynamics in MIN:

- Gobert back issues aka long term durability
- young players success: Clark and TJ are ready
- McDaniels development (as PF)
- DDV fit in MIN
- Randle is playing on high level while being 100% healthy for the first time
- NAW consistency as backup comboguard
- Conley being able to play 15-20 of good basketball
- it looks like MIN get DET FRP pick and UTA SRP this year
- MIN on 7-0 run and easy schedule continues

At the same time there is an ongoing process in PHO. And it might be a moment this offseason when MIN dynamic and PHO dynamic makes KD trade realistic for both sides. For MIN, it means:

- KD value is lower, definitely not three FRPs and a young player
- value our assets increases: Randle, NAW, Clark, DET pick

From what I see TC was right not to make any cosmetic trades before deadline while asking PHO about KD price. We know that McDaniels was off the table, while a deal around Randle and DDV was discussed. Both Randle and DDV have been playing very well lately. So I don't think I am smarter than TC.

P.S. With regard to KD future contract. He accepted 25mil deal instead of 35mil to win championship in GSW. He was in his prime. It was almost 30% discount! How many current players did the same? You continues to push "39yo will earn 60 mil" narrative, but it is just your assumption based on nothing, while there is a fact saying that KD had already situation where he put money and ambitions aside to be in high stakes game.

Any discussion of KD’s next contract is speculation. He could play for a min or max. I based everything on the context of risk and reward management because it is a risk rather than a certainty. Your argument is that it is unlikely KD would want to make a lot of money his last 2 years in the league. While that might be true, that is not something I want to bet on.

The simple truth is no Wolf makes what KD makes. That means we need to aggregate salaries, which means there is a hard cap. Even on the lowest value version of a KD trade, we lose 2-3 good players. That is before we add in the effect KD’s money has on trying to keep Naz and NAW. This is why I like to break down the purposed trades instead of talking about it in the abstract. Tell me what you think he costs and we can discuss the ways that affects us moving forward.

Your list of issues is fine, but it overcomplicates a rather simple dynamic. We have too many contracts coming back. I have broken down elsewhere, but even losing Garza, if we keep all 3 free agents and draft two players we are at 15. We still have depth issues at PG and C next year, and a logjam at SG-PF. Jaden doesn’t need to play PF to excel, but he might spend some time there to create minutes at SF for others.

KD is unlikely to be here four years from now. Which means any KD trade is a 1-3 year proposition. But the team will play basketball beyond 1-3 years. Whatever move we make to improve must have an eye to the future. Which brings me back to, show me a proposed trade that gets you what you want without harming us, and we can talk about it.

[shrink]

Any discussion of KD’s next contract is speculation. He could play for a min or max.

True! You made my heart flutter!

[winforlose]

Any discussion of KD’s next contract is speculation. He could play for a min or max.

True! You made my heart flutter!

Lol! When I talk about things in terms of risk and reward, what part of that makes you think I am speaking in absolutes? My posts already tend to be too long, why should I spend a sentence or two clarifying something obvious by context? Why is the absence of that justification to ignore what is clear from context to distort my point and change my position? I have said all along KD could leave if things go poorly or demand a max. Of course he might not.

[shrink]

Any discussion of KD’s next contract is speculation. He could play for a min or max.

True! You made my heart flutter!

Lol! When I talk about things in terms of risk and reward, what part of that makes you think I am speaking in absolutes? My posts already tend to be too long, why should I spend a sentence or two clarifying something obvious by context? Why is the absence of that justification to ignore what is clear from context to distort my point and change my position? I have said all along KD could leave if things go poorly or demand a max. Of course he might not.

Yes, NBA players who are still stars almost never take significantly less, just to go to the team they want. However, Durant is a very different player from other NBA players.

1. He has had a long career, with maxes and supermaxes the entire way. He has made a ton of money as a 36 year old.

2. Durant isn’t motivated by fame. He doesn’t make commercials, generally struggles even with interviews. If Ant got all the limelight, KD would love it.

3. Legacy matters to him. If he could join an intact team that could get him maybe another ring, without sacrificing a ton to get him, that would be ideal.

4. Durant has done enough in the league to have some say as to where he goes. It’s already reported that he and the Suns will work together to make that happen.

5. KD is just a hooper. He loves basketball, and that is his only interest. There are plenty of stories where his team is on an afternoon, evening back to back, and when Durant gets to a new town, he rents a court to go hoop from 9-12 pm. The rest of his team generally relaxes at the hotel. KD is Ant’s favorite player because Edwards fashions himself as a hooper. If KD came to MIN, Ant might be in that gym with him!

Yes, Durant is expensive, making $54.7 next year. But what if there was an agreement with management that after next season, he’d sign for a much smaller amount the next two years, if it got him where he wanted to go?

[winforlose]

True! You made my heart flutter!

Lol! When I talk about things in terms of risk and reward, what part of that makes you think I am speaking in absolutes? My posts already tend to be too long, why should I spend a sentence or two clarifying something obvious by context? Why is the absence of that justification to ignore what is clear from context to distort my point and change my position? I have said all along KD could leave if things go poorly or demand a max. Of course he might not.

Yes, NBA players who are still stars almost never take significantly less, just to go to the team they want. However, Durant is a very different player from other NBA players.

1. He has had a long career, with maxes and supermaxes the entire way. He has made a ton of money as a 36 year old.

2. Durant isn’t motivated by fame. He doesn’t make commercials, generally struggles even with interviews. If Ant got all the limelight, KD would love it.

3. Legacy matters to him. If he could join an intact team that could get him maybe another ring, without sacrificing a ton to get him, that would be ideal.

4. Durant has done enough in the league to have some say as to where he goes. It’s already reported that he and the Suns will work together to make that happen.

5. KD is just a hooper. He loves basketball, and that is his only interest. There are plenty of stories where his team is on an afternoon, evening back to back, and when Durant gets to a new town, he rents a court to go hoop from 9-12 pm. The rest of his team generally relaxes at the hotel. KD is Ant’s favorite player because Edwards fashions himself as a hooper. If KD came to MIN, Ant might be in that gym with him!

Yes, Durant is expensive, making $54.7 next year. But what if there was an agreement with management that after next season, he’d sign for a much smaller amount the next two years, if it got him where he wanted to go?

Conversely if he wasn’t happy here (maybe because we don’t contend, maybe because he doesn’t like the guys, maybe for some other reason,) then he could leave and play for a discount contract elsewhere. As a free agent he holds all the power. Meanwhile we give up multiple players who we don’t get back if he walks. What is your purposed KD trade?

[shrink]

Yes, Durant is expensive, making $54.7 next year. But what if there was an agreement with management that after next season, he’d sign for a much smaller amount the next two years, if it got him where he wanted to go?

Conversely if he wasn’t happy here (maybe because we don’t contend, maybe because he doesn’t like the guys, maybe for some other reason,) then he could leave and play for a discount contract elsewhere. As a free agent he holds all the power. Meanwhile we give up multiple players who we don’t get back if he walks. What is your purposed KD trade?

You’re absolutely correct. We couldn’t extend him when he signed for a tiny contract, since the CBA prevents salary decreases of this amount for teams over the cap. He would have the right to decide after that season.

I don’t have a KD trade - I don’t even know where to start! I simply have no idea who will be gone next year. A month ago, I would have said a Randle S&T would be part of it, but even Julius has a good case why he shouldn’t be the one to go (Finch loves him, he follows the game plan and does what is needed to win, and like 11 wins in a row when Randle has played). Who then? Ant won’t be traded, rumors said TC wouldn’t include McDaniels in a KD trade, the city loves Naz, Gobert has no replacement .. I just don’t see the pathway.

[TimberKat]

Yes, Durant is expensive, making $54.7 next year. But what if there was an agreement with management that after next season, he’d sign for a much smaller amount the next two years, if it got him where he wanted to go?

Conversely if he wasn’t happy here (maybe because we don’t contend, maybe because he doesn’t like the guys, maybe for some other reason,) then he could leave and play for a discount contract elsewhere. As a free agent he holds all the power. Meanwhile we give up multiple players who we don’t get back if he walks. What is your purposed KD trade?

You’re absolutely correct. We couldn’t extend him when he signed for a tiny contract, since the CBA prevents salary decreases of this amount for teams over the cap. He would have the right to decide after that season.

I don’t have a KD trade - I don’t even know where to start! I simply have no idea who will be gone next year. A month ago, I would have said a Randle S&T would be part of it, but even Julius has a good case why he shouldn’t be the one to go (Finch loves him, he follows the game plan and does what is needed to win, and like 11 wins in a row when Randle has played). Who then? Ant won’t be traded, rumors said TC wouldn’t include McDaniels in a KD trade, the city loves Naz, Gobert has no replacement .. I just don’t see the pathway.

I think it's Randle and/or Naz for KD to start with but that is why I prefer a LaMelo trade.

[winforlose]

Conversely if he wasn’t happy here (maybe because we don’t contend, maybe because he doesn’t like the guys, maybe for some other reason,) then he could leave and play for a discount contract elsewhere. As a free agent he holds all the power. Meanwhile we give up multiple players who we don’t get back if he walks. What is your purposed KD trade?

You’re absolutely correct. We couldn’t extend him when he signed for a tiny contract, since the CBA prevents salary decreases of this amount for teams over the cap. He would have the right to decide after that season.

I don’t have a KD trade - I don’t even know where to start! I simply have no idea who will be gone next year. A month ago, I would have said a Randle S&T would be part of it, but even Julius has a good case why he shouldn’t be the one to go (Finch loves him, he follows the game plan and does what is needed to win, and like 11 wins in a row when Randle has played). Who then? Ant won’t be traded, rumors said TC wouldn’t include McDaniels in a KD trade, the city loves Naz, Gobert has no replacement .. I just don’t see the pathway.

I think it's Randle and/or Naz for KD to start with but that is why I prefer a LaMelo trade.

What would you give for LaMelo?

[winforlose]

Yes, Durant is expensive, making $54.7 next year. But what if there was an agreement with management that after next season, he’d sign for a much smaller amount the next two years, if it got him where he wanted to go?

Conversely if he wasn’t happy here (maybe because we don’t contend, maybe because he doesn’t like the guys, maybe for some other reason,) then he could leave and play for a discount contract elsewhere. As a free agent he holds all the power. Meanwhile we give up multiple players who we don’t get back if he walks. What is your purposed KD trade?

You’re absolutely correct. We couldn’t extend him when he signed for a tiny contract, since the CBA prevents salary decreases of this amount for teams over the cap. He would have the right to decide after that season.

I don’t have a KD trade - I don’t even know where to start! I simply have no idea who will be gone next year. A month ago, I would have said a Randle S&T would be part of it, but even Julius has a good case why he shouldn’t be the one to go (Finch loves him, he follows the game plan and does what is needed to win, and like 11 wins in a row when Randle has played). Who then? Ant won’t be traded, rumors said TC wouldn’t include McDaniels in a KD trade, the city loves Naz, Gobert has no replacement .. I just don’t see the pathway.

Would you keep Randle if it cost you Naz and NAW?

[TimberKat]

You’re absolutely correct. We couldn’t extend him when he signed for a tiny contract, since the CBA prevents salary decreases of this amount for teams over the cap. He would have the right to decide after that season.

I don’t have a KD trade - I don’t even know where to start! I simply have no idea who will be gone next year. A month ago, I would have said a Randle S&T would be part of it, but even Julius has a good case why he shouldn’t be the one to go (Finch loves him, he follows the game plan and does what is needed to win, and like 11 wins in a row when Randle has played). Who then? Ant won’t be traded, rumors said TC wouldn’t include McDaniels in a KD trade, the city loves Naz, Gobert has no replacement .. I just don’t see the pathway.

I think it's Randle and/or Naz for KD to start with but that is why I prefer a LaMelo trade.

What would you give for LaMelo?

I posted earlier - (Naz and/or Randle) + Dilly + DET #1. If both Naz and Randle will need a big coming back.

[winforlose]

Here is an alternative to KD trade for those that wants to keep Naz. Dilly+Randle+Conley+DET 1st for LaMelo Ball. He is due 38Mil next year. That should give us enough salary to keep Naz and NAW. Conley comes back as coach?

Why would the Hornets trade LaMelo for this small a package?

[TimberKat]

Here is an alternative to KD trade for those that wants to keep Naz. Dilly+Randle+Conley+DET 1st for LaMelo Ball. He is due 38Mil next year. That should give us enough salary to keep Naz and NAW. Conley comes back as coach?

Why would the Hornets trade LaMelo for this small a package?

I was hoping LaMelo wants out. CHA continue to rebuild. They can flip Naz and Randle for more picks, so my opinion, that is not a small package.

[winforlose]

Here is an alternative to KD trade for those that wants to keep Naz. Dilly+Randle+Conley+DET 1st for LaMelo Ball. He is due 38Mil next year. That should give us enough salary to keep Naz and NAW. Conley comes back as coach?

Why would the Hornets trade LaMelo for this small a package?

I was hoping LaMelo wants out. CHA continue to rebuild. They can flip Naz and Randle for more picks, so my opinion, that is not a small package.

I assume some other team would out bid us. But if they did not, LaMelo is an interesting risk. On the one hand he raises both the floor and ceiling of the team. On the other hand LaMelo has missed 86 games in the last 3 including so far in this one. The best ability is availability and LaMelo is frequently unavailable. If the package is Naz, Randle, Dilly, and the first, Randle is 31 million off the books, Naz probably would have cost 25-30, and Dilly costs 6.5. Although now that I think about it, Naz would have to opt in as I don’t think you can aggregate in a sign and trade. Can anyone weigh in on that? Honestly I probably would not make this trade because of LaMelo’s injury issues, but it is intriguing.

[TimberKat]

Why would the Hornets trade LaMelo for this small a package?

I was hoping LaMelo wants out. CHA continue to rebuild. They can flip Naz and Randle for more picks, so my opinion, that is not a small package.

I assume some other team would out bid us. But if they did not, LaMelo is an interesting risk. On the one hand he raises both the floor and ceiling of the team. On the other hand LaMelo has missed 86 games in the last 3 including so far in this one. The best ability is availability and LaMelo is frequently unavailable. If the package is Naz, Randle, Dilly, and the first, Randle is 31 million off the books, Naz probably would have cost 25-30, and Dilly costs 6.5. Although now that I think about it, Naz would have to opt in as I don’t think you can aggregate in a sign and trade. Can anyone weigh in on that? Honestly I probably would not make this trade because of LaMelo’s injury issues, but it is intriguing.

Yes, that injury risk is also why CHA maybe willing. I am betting on LaMelo playing with higher quality players will reduce the risk of injury.

[winforlose]

I was hoping LaMelo wants out. CHA continue to rebuild. They can flip Naz and Randle for more picks, so my opinion, that is not a small package.

I assume some other team would out bid us. But if they did not, LaMelo is an interesting risk. On the one hand he raises both the floor and ceiling of the team. On the other hand LaMelo has missed 86 games in the last 3 including so far in this one. The best ability is availability and LaMelo is frequently unavailable. If the package is Naz, Randle, Dilly, and the first, Randle is 31 million off the books, Naz probably would have cost 25-30, and Dilly costs 6.5. Although now that I think about it, Naz would have to opt in as I don’t think you can aggregate in a sign and trade. Can anyone weigh in on that? Honestly I probably would not make this trade because of LaMelo’s injury issues, but it is intriguing.

Yes, that injury risk is also why CHA maybe willing. I am betting on LaMelo playing with higher quality players will reduce the risk of injury.

I need to dig in more on a number of areas to properly address this idea. But my initial reaction is without Naz and Randle it doesn’t happen, and with them it is not NBA trade legal.

[cmoss84]

Would be a little tricky, but something like this would work (might need a couple separate trades):
Durant to Miami
Rudy to Suns
Rebuild package to Charlotte
LaMelo to MN

[minimus]

From all players with baby max contract LaMelo's fit in MIN is probably the one I dislike the most. No defense, no competitiveness, doesn't really elevate his teammates (as true playmakers should). Maybe it is just because he has been playing in losing CHA, but combining with his injures I would strongly advise against. I'd rather play guys such as DDV, NAW, Rob and 37yo Conley who care about winning.

[BlacJacMac]

I was hoping LaMelo wants out. CHA continue to rebuild. They can flip Naz and Randle for more picks, so my opinion, that is not a small package.

I assume some other team would out bid us. But if they did not, LaMelo is an interesting risk. On the one hand he raises both the floor and ceiling of the team. On the other hand LaMelo has missed 86 games in the last 3 including so far in this one. The best ability is availability and LaMelo is frequently unavailable. If the package is Naz, Randle, Dilly, and the first, Randle is 31 million off the books, Naz probably would have cost 25-30, and Dilly costs 6.5. Although now that I think about it, Naz would have to opt in as I don’t think you can aggregate in a sign and trade. Can anyone weigh in on that? Honestly I probably would not make this trade because of LaMelo’s injury issues, but it is intriguing.

Yes, that injury risk is also why CHA maybe willing. I am betting on LaMelo playing with higher quality players will reduce the risk of injury.

He's a 32 MPG player. And he doesn't really play a reckless style (no defense and half his FGAs are 3s).

I think the Ball brothers were worked way too hard, way too often by their dad while they were still developing and its always going to be a problem. They're fragile.

I realize that I was one of the biggest "get Lonzo" guys on here, but his cost/risk is so much lower than LaMelo's. And you're getting him to be a complimentary player, not one of your Big 2 or 3.

[BlacJacMac]

From all players with baby max contract LaMelo's fit in MIN is probably the one I dislike the most. No defense, no competitiveness, doesn't really elevate his teammates (as true playmakers should). Maybe it is just because he has been playing in losing CHA, but combining with his injures I would strongly advise against. I'd rather play guys such as DDV, NAW, Rob and 37yo Conley who care about winning.

He reminds me of a taller Trae Young.

Great stats, but no real impact on winning. Neither plays a lick of defense and both seem to be playing a different/more selfish game than their teammates.

I think both guys would be frustrating to play with.