AKME's Worst Moves?

[ChettheJet]

It's the Vucevic trade. St the franchise back years. And there have been setbacks in the past, Scott May, Ronnie Lester, Jay Williams.

1)at the time of the trade didn't have enough Win Now pieces in place all they really had was Lavine. Some good role players and some youth but not the same as when they started the year with Lavine, Vuc, DeRozan, Ball and Caruso. Yeah Lonzo getting and staying injured killed that effort.
2) Gave up the 2 picks when again, only really had Lavine in place, no great young guys with potential beyond being role players. OK I see where you're looking at assembling a Win Now team, the hopes or long range plan to get DeRozan, Ball and Caruso or three similar guys for the serious push ASAP. But AK came in with the reputation of finding guys in the draft, developing them and building through the draft and he stated that he wanted the Bulls to be competitive every year not just one shot.
3)Probably gave up on Carter too soon, after foolishly telling him he could be a 3 point shooter. Carter and those two picks would have maybe done something.
4)Same as he gave up too soon on Markkanen who got screwed up by Boylan. that they got a pick that has proven ultra protected to even get a #15 out of it piles on the bad.
5) Turned out worse for the draft when they gave up another pick to get DeRozan. That meant they gave up 3 picks getting only 2 players in the next 5 years, no way to build that way. Had to give up Lavine to get that pick back
6) Once he saw this wasn't working and they were below .500 he sat out 2 deadlines when at least maybe he could have gotten one pick somewhere.

[HearshotKDS]

Vuc trade, it had a questionable reception on the board at the time and many of the positive reactions were more along the lines of "interesting to see how AKME navigates the ceiling they seemed to have put on the team with this trade" and we all know how that turned out.

[dawhizz]

The Pat extension is the one I hated when it happened and still hate. It’s hard for me to judge the Vuc trade given how competitive and fun the Bulls were when Lonzo was healthy. Maybe that sustainable but I can see the vision that seemed to work until Lonzo went down.

[Muzbar]

Getting hired?

[Dan Z]

Not gutting the team one year after Ball went down when there was a buying frenzy and our vet core had value.

No affirmative move did anywhere near as much damage as that refusal to act. Which was then double and triple downed on.

That's my answer too.

Eventually AK had to move on from the main core (DDR and Zach), but at that point it was too late. I also think he didn't have much choice but to do so.

[Dan Z]

Without using hindsight, my list would probably be:

Vuc trade - I was on a pretty small island of people who seemed to think this in the moment, so I'm not sure everyone is really applying the no hindsight rule here.

Vuc extension - I hated this extension when it was signed, just made no sense to me.

Terry drafting - Felt like there were way better options on the board, and there were.

Pat extension - I didn't hate the money so much as it was hard to get a feel for his value, I just hated the process of being proactive vs letting RFA play out. The teams that waited all got similar players on way better deals, then Pat just tanked this year to make it even worse.

Other thoughts
Lauri trade - really bad in hindsight, but I was okay with it at the moment, what bothered me was not trading him at the deadline earlier before he hit RFA when I thought we'd have gotten more

Pat drafting - Maybe didn't turn out great, and I'd rather have Deni today on his new contract, which was the guy I would have taken, but I didn't think it was inexplicably bad in the moment or anything

LaVine extension/trade - My only real problem with LaVine was not trading him earlier after the extension and that we folded on the player option on the last year and gave him the trade kicker. Neither one probably really mattered, but was just overboard in both cases. Otherwise, I understood the extension and the trade.

Ball signing - It would have been great except for injury, granted injury was likely with Ball, but this severity of injury was not. I still think it was a reasonable risk even if it didn't pan out

Donovan extension - Donovan is a good coach, it's fine. I know people hate him because they always pin way too much on the coach, but it's incredibly unlikely we'd have a better coach than Donovan if we fired Donovan IMO. I'd be okay changing, but I just think people vastly overstate the upside and understate the downside here

I remember...you were never a fan of Vucevic.

I think I was in the middle on the Vucevic trade. I didn't hate it, but didn't think it was great. Quickly I realized how dumb it was not to protect the first pick they gave away. Had the Bulls drafted Franz that would've changed a bunch of things.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

Uhhh I can only pick 3?

It strikes me as silly that the Vuc trade is the #1 option though. It’s literally just hater talk. I’m pretty critical of management, but the Vuc talk has been off base for years, imo. It’s Carlos boozer all over again, two unfairly maligned players. Vuc has been the only semi-consistent player on this team since he’s been here. Meaning he actually plays games. The guy had practically been an Ironman and consistently gives you 20/10. Playing every game is underrated by NBA fans. Maybe because it’s so easy to make the playoffs. Yeah his shooting fell off the map, but does anyone ever consider that might have to do with coaching? Everyone joins this team and becomes a worse player, at least on the shooting front, outside of maybe Zach. Certainly nobody joins the bulls and becomes a better shooter. Or even becomes a better player.

Idk, my votes are for Pat and Billy. Billy is the biggest con artist in the nba barring maybe jj reddick. Jury is still out on jj, but I wouldn’t predict sustained success.

[Rose2Boozer]

The Nikola Vucevic trade, but Patrick Williams' contract extension, and drafting Dalen Terry over Walker Kessler are definitely close.

[WesPeace]

Not gutting the team one year after Ball went down when there was a buying frenzy and our vet core had value.

No affirmative move did anywhere near as much damage as that refusal to act. Which was then double and triple downed on.

That's my answer too.

Eventually AK had to move on from the main core (DDR and Zach), but at that point it was too late. I also think he didn't have much choice but to do so.

Yep, his stubburness to reset the team for soo long..worst move

[dougthonus]

Not gutting the team one year after Ball went down when there was a buying frenzy and our vet core had value.

No affirmative move did anywhere near as much damage as that refusal to act. Which was then double and triple downed on.

That's my answer too.

Eventually AK had to move on from the main core (DDR and Zach), but at that point it was too late. I also think he didn't have much choice but to do so.

Yep, his stubburness to reset the team for soo long..worst move

I think he made a lot of mistakes early, but he had windows to get out of all of them.

[Dez]

1, 4 and 5 are hindsight, they shouldn't be on there.

For 7 Lauri had no value, could have found a different trade? Maybe but Lauri had stagnated.

We weren't getting any better value for LaVine because of his contract.

AK sucks but a fair chunk of that list is hindsight.

[dice]

lavine extension

[nitetrain8603]

Drafting Pat
Resigning Pat
Hiring a coach who allows Pat to play
Acquiring players who pass the ball to Pat
Not firing himself

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[DuckIII]

1, 4 and 5 are hindsight, they shouldn't be on there.

5 isn’t. Terry was projected as a mid second rounder and panned in real time as a reach by fans and the media alike. It’s the most obvious “real time awful draft pick” I can recall seeing as a Bulls fan.

And unfortunately, unlike some other picks I disliked in real time (Hinrich and Taj), time has proven this pick to be as bad as it appeared to be when made.

But it’s an 18th pick. Not like it’s a franchise crippler or anything.

[pipfan]

1, 4 and 5 are hindsight, they shouldn't be on there.

5 isn’t. Terry was projected as a mid second rounder and panned in real time as a reach by fans and the media alike. It’s the most obvious “real time awful draft pick” I can recall seeing as a Bulls fan.

And unfortunately, unlike some other picks I disliked in real time (Hinrich and Taj), time has proven this pick to be as bad as it appeared to be when made.

But it’s an 18th pick. Not like it’s a franchise crippler or anything.

I disagree as well
Terry was a reach, no doubt
Many didn't like picking PWill (I did, him or Deni for me)
The Ball signing was a bit risky-he's never been a healthy player

[Jcool0]

1, 4 and 5 are hindsight, they shouldn't be on there.

5 isn’t. Terry was projected as a mid second rounder and panned in real time as a reach by fans and the media alike. It’s the most obvious “real time awful draft pick” I can recall seeing as a Bulls fan.

And unfortunately, unlike some other picks I disliked in real time (Hinrich and Taj), time has proven this pick to be as bad as it appeared to be when made.

But it’s an 18th pick. Not like it’s a franchise crippler or anything.

I disagree as well
Terry was a reach, no doubt
Many didn't like picking PWill (I did, him or Deni for me)
The Ball signing was a bit risky-he's never been a healthy player

Not sure even the Bulls expected Ball to play in 70+ games a year. But no one could see losing two years coming. I was just as surprised as anyone with the Williams pick. He wasn't seen as a top 5 player. I wasn't a big fan of Haliburton since he had fallen off in the 2nd half of the year. I was mostly on Deni because everyone thought that would be the pick and i liked his versatile skill set. I wanted Christian Braun in 2022 at #18 and he would be looking pretty good on the Bulls right now. It also might have stopped AK from giving 90M to Williams.

[Lexluthor]

Vuc trade followed by DDR trade.

Both set us back for years and still are.

Is the Vuc trade really that bad ? Jett Howard is a bust and Wendell Carter is still meh and Franz Wagner Is a good player but not a franchise player . The trade was not that bad

[Jcool0]

Vuc trade followed by DDR trade.

Both set us back for years and still are.

Is the Vuc trade really that bad ? Jett Howard is a bust and Wendell Carter is still meh and Franz Wagner Is a good player but not a franchise player . The trade was not that bad

Who knows if AK even takes him but Franz Wagner is currently averaging 24.3 points, 5.6 rebounds, 4.7 assists & 1.3 steals. For an 8th pick that is a huge win for Orlando. Wagner on the Bulls is franchise changing. We now have Zach and Franz as our two best players and are probably an actual playoff team, not just making the play in. Might not even need to trade for DeRozan if they take Wagner. Now instead of AK looking incompetent Bulls fans probably love the guy.

[dougthonus]

1, 4 and 5 are hindsight, they shouldn't be on there.

I don't know. Pat was mocked at #12 by draft people prior to him showing well in workouts, he didn't start for his college team, and every problem he has today was visible in college as well. Terry seemed like a reach to me as well and didn't strike me as a guy that had an obvious niche. I think it's fair that a lot of people disliked both these moves pretty strongly in the moment.

For 7 Lauri had no value, could have found a different trade? Maybe but Lauri had stagnated.

We weren't getting any better value for LaVine because of his contract.

AK sucks but a fair chunk of that list is hindsight.

Kind of agree with these two at the time they were made, though I'd say we could have moved Lauri a year earlier and probably would have gotten more, so we still bungled that. Same is true of LaVine. Two years earlier, the rumor was NYK was offering Quickley and two #1s for Zach.

[dougthonus]

Vuc trade followed by DDR trade.

Both set us back for years and still are.

Is the Vuc trade really that bad ? Jett Howard is a bust and Wendell Carter is still meh and Franz Wagner Is a good player but not a franchise player . The trade was not that bad

Carter has basically been equivalent to Vuc, so yeah. It's been that bad. If you realize that the team is awful when Vuc plays because Vuc has actually been awful, then the trade is a lot worse. If you just go double double machine, look at raw counting stats, ignore his defense, ignore how much he kills your offense by moving slow and creating poor sets, then sure, he looks a lot better.